Wan-Bissaka for sale

[Zed 101]

I think that this is the whole crux of the thread, there was a rumour that AWB was getting interest from Saudi, and that is how I am looking at it ....

right now is AWB good enough? for me he is ok
long term is he the player we want as RB? for me it is a no

It is not about hating on AWB
it is about viewing it through the perspective of a player who is on very high wages,
A player who will either need to be sold next year or given a new contract,
it is about finding a way out of our current financial hole within FFP

So if AWB stays and leaves for free is it a disaster, probably a mini one
If AWB stays and is given a bumper new contract is it a disaster, for me a massive one

Are there bigger issues in the squad that RB/LB yes obviously
in Shaw, AWB, Malacia and Dalot we are ok if they are fit

But is anyone saying that we need to prioritise a RB... not many I can see
People are just saying if the right offer comes in then we should take it

 

[AltiUn]

For me it's not about the upgrade, but the initiation of change and more trust in youth. Instead of paying players 150k a week to sit half the season or more on the bench in rotation, a youth team player should be able and trusted to fill that role.

The youth player might not be as good as AWB right now, but its ok.

Again, all good and well saying that but we don't have any youth right backs even remotely good enough for first team football, it's not a case of them not being ready, they just aren't good enough full stop.

 

[spiriticon]

Again, all good and well saying that but we don't have any youth right backs even remotely good enough for first team football, it's not a case of them not being ready, they just aren't good enough full stop.

Neither is Dalot or AWB really. They are both middling average to sometimes good, the pair of them. Nothing outstanding in the many years they are here.

We just give them more chances because they have bigger pay packets compared to the youth teamers.

 

[golden_blunder]

Neither is Dalot or AWB really. They are both middling average to sometimes good, the pair of them. Nothing outstanding in the many years they are here.

We just give them more chances because they have bigger pay packets compared to the youth teamers.

No them play because they are better than our youth options. RB is a position not well stocked at reserve levels

 

[andersj]

Kyle Walker is not rounded or tidy at all. He’s an athletic freak. No more, no less. People like to dismiss AWB’s defending as mere ‘recovery’ - Kyle Walker is terrible positionally himself and is exactly the same, and his on the ball ability doesn’t go much further than kicking it 20 yards ahead and racing you. The ability between him and Cancelo was night and day for example. It’s just that Walker is a cheat code athletically.

Wan Bissaka is better on the ball than Walker. He’s a better dribbler/has better close control, and can carry the ball better than him too. He could easily replace Walker’s role of 1v1/counter-attack insurance policy in the City team because make no mistake - that id EXACTLY what Walker’s role is there.

Kyle Walker plays:

- approx three times more passes into the final third,
- twice as many progressive passes,
- and have a completion rate of 88 % in the PL while AWB is at 80 %

In other words, Walker is both more advanced (takes more risk with his passing) and losses the ball less. There is a huge gulf between the two quality wise.

And yes, Walkers completion rate is inflated by playing in a better team (not enough to make up for the difference though). But while Kyle Walker is a key player in Man Citys build up, the best team in the league in terms of building from the back, AWB is a liability for a very average one.

While Walker have approx 30 percent more touches on the ball per 90 min, he has approx half the amount of ball losses (in terms of miscontrols and dispossessed).

A player like AWB would never feature for a Pep or Klopp team. Never.

 

[spiriticon]

No them play because they are better than our youth options. RB is a position not well stocked at reserve levels

They are better yes, but not by so much that they are unsellable or irreplaceable for that spot on the bench.

 

[golden_blunder]

They are better yes, but not by so much that they are unsellable or irreplaceable for that spot on the bench.

They are miles better, as you’d expect. Our reserve choices are nowhere near the bench at this point.

if a bid comes in, consider it but Rb is certainly not priority for me

I would like to see a new recruit or 2 that can play to a competent standard, much like we did with Amass at LB

 

[spiriticon]

They are miles better, as you’d expect. Our reserve choices are nowhere near the bench at this point.

if a bid comes in, consider it but Rb is certainly not priority for me

I agree RB isn't a priority but we should always be open for business.

The money we get in could be the spark that ignites further meaningful change.

 

[Oranges038]

AWB better on the ball than Kyle Walker...

Walker is streets ahead of him in every department.

 

[Catt]

Ahhh I had to do a search.

Thought he was just a difficult personality.

 

[Rozay]

Kyle Walker plays:

- approx three times more passes into the final third,
- twice as many progressive passes,
- and have a completion rate of 88 % in the PL while AWB is at 80 %

In other words, Walker is both more advanced (takes more risk with his passing) and losses the ball less. There is a huge gulf between the two quality wise.

And yes, Walkers completion rate is inflated by playing in a better team (not enough to make up for the difference though). But while Kyle Walker is a key player in Man Citys build up, the best team in the league in terms of building from the back, AWB is a liability for a very average one.

While Walker have approx 30 percent more touches on the ball per 90 min, he has approx half the amount of ball losses (in terms of miscontrols and dispossessed).

A player like AWB would never feature for a Pep or Klopp team. Never.

Yawn.

What are Walker’s ‘numbers’ compared to Dalot? I’m sure the ‘computer says’ Walker is better on the ball than him too, when he definitely isn’t. Walker is average, at best. He is so many miles below Cancelo who is a proper Pep player. He just wants to win trophies so tolerates Walker’s averageness against Mbappe and Vinicius because even if Cancelo has a better touch, Walker neutralises the main threat.

I don’t think Walker is technically good but I do recognise him as by far City’s most important player. That isn’t to be confused with his ability, and that particular role would also suit Wan Bissaka. Walker is not a key build up player for City. He fails often in this phase, and is not able to move into midfield like Cancelo, Lewis, Zinchenko, Gvardiol, Delph(!) because he simply can’t play. If he was as slow as Wan Bissaka he would do well to be a PL right back, and he certainly wouldn’t be a United level player. At best, he’d be a bottom half full back.

 

[andersj]

What are Walker’s ‘numbers’ compared to Dalot? I’m sure the ‘computer says’ Walker is better on the ball than him too, when he definitely isn’t.

What a great way to make an argument. He obviously is alot better on the ball than Dalot, so yes, I’m quite comfortable that the numbers would say that.

Walker is probably even close to Luke Shaw, who is the only fullback who would ever be considered by Pep/Klopp.

I agree that Walkers recovery pace make him a great asset. But unlike AWB (who is not close to being as fast as Walker) he is also a very tidy football. Both on the ball, under pressure, and with his passing.

 

[VP89]

Why are we even bothering to compare AWB to walker

 

[andersj]

He fails often in this phase, and is not able to move into midfield like Cancelo, Lewis, Zinchenko, Gvardiol, Delph(!) because he simply can’t play.

They are all different type of players with different qualities. But Gvardiol is basically doing the same thing as Walker, just on the left side. But a bit more limited with his passing for now. I’m sure he will catch up.

 

[roseguy64]

Why is that a myth? I mean I know I feel it is that way based on watching him play that way, watching him being completely out of position and slowly jogging back whilst the opposition are sprinting towards our goal.

In fairness to him in games where he has been tasked with sitting and really protecting the RB position he is much better, the issue is he has been tasked with attacking, when he tries to attack that is when his positioning gets skewed and he gets caught up the field a lot, if his only job was to defend and never go beyond the half way line I would have a lot more faith in him as a player, but that is only ever going to be the case if we are playing somebody like PSG and we have no choice.

The point was regarding his tackling and having to do 1v1 defending. He doesn't tackle that way because of positioning.

 

[roseguy64]

His ball-carrying and general short pass game is good. His slide tackling is fantastic. I've always found Wan Bissaka's bigger problems to be his lapses in concentration, jogging back on breaks, and weak play at the back post defending. For a fullback of his height, he is very weak defensively.

I think both he and Dalot are, alright, and I don't see it as a priority position. Really sort out the central midfield, get an appropriate replacement for Varane, and probably another forward in the age profile a little older than Rasmusson who has more of a proven record in front of goal.

After that, then you can start tinkering with the right backs.

Yeah I'd agree that those are his real weaknesses.

 

[the_cliff]

Hope the rumours are true. Perfect opportunity to get some return on investment and help us with ffp.

 

[caid]

His ball-carrying and general short pass game is good. His slide tackling is fantastic. I've always found Wan Bissaka's bigger problems to be his lapses in concentration, jogging back on breaks, and weak play at the back post defending. For a fullback of his height, he is very weak defensively.

I think both he and Dalot are, alright, and I don't see it as a priority position. Really sort out the central midfield, get an appropriate replacement for Varane, and probably another forward in the age profile a little older than Rasmusson who has more of a proven record in front of goal.

After that, then you can start tinkering with the right backs.

I'd agree with most of that first paragraph but i'd add his positioning and reading of the game against more than 1 person as a weakness. He's struggled badly against wing backs in europe too with him taking too long to close them down and never really getting close enough to them. He's very good when pushing up in a high press too to give him his dues.
I could get behind him as a kyle walker like cheat code but his talents or lack of aren't what make me sceptical ultimately - its the concentration levels, focus and how alarmingly low his performances can drop. I think if he was the player of last winter playing for his united future every week he'd be great and you'd be happy to have him but that isn't a maintainable situation, the threat cant be that severe over the long term.
And then even at his best he isn't a player you'd want or need every week. You'd still want a more attack minded option. Theres more pressing concerns but he's coming to the end of his contract so decision time has arrived regardless of how convenient it is. We can get him a fee for him in the next 6 months or we renew and gamble on him ... I dont know, sorting out his concentration? Improving by a decent margin?

 

[lex talionis]

I think that this is the whole crux of the thread, there was a rumour that AWB was getting interest from Saudi, and that is how I am looking at it ....

right now is AWB good enough? for me he is ok
long term is he the player we want as RB? for me it is a no

It is not about hating on AWB
it is about viewing it through the perspective of a player who is on very high wages,
A player who will either need to be sold next year or given a new contract,
it is about finding a way out of our current financial hole within FFP

So if AWB stays and leaves for free is it a disaster, probably a mini one
If AWB stays and is given a bumper new contract is it a disaster, for me a massive one

Are there bigger issues in the squad that RB/LB yes obviously
in Shaw, AWB, Malacia and Dalot we are ok if they are fit

But is anyone saying that we need to prioritise a RB... not many I can see
People are just saying if the right offer comes in then we should take it

Perhaps that is the heart of the matter. If a Saudi club comes in with an offer of 100m obviously we should -- as the bizarre saying goes -- bite the Saudi club's hand off (presumably, so goes the logic of the metaphor, before they have a chance to realize how daft they are making such a ridiculous offer). But no one is going to offer even 50m for AWB.

So what would be "the right offer"? Before we come up with a number like 25m keep in mind that if we sell AWB we are definitely going to have to bring in a new RB, either a starting RB or Dalot's cover. That new player, however obscure he may be, is going to cost us well above 25m. Unless the upgrade on AWB is going to be significant, it would be daft to sell him for at most 25m but probably have to spend close above 50m for that significant upgrade. I refer to the United tax that every one of us is or should be fully aware of.

And who is out there, anyway, who's reasonably gettable (thus, no Kyle Walker) that both represents a significant upgrade on AWB and would cost us no more than 50m?

 

[BuzzKillington]

Kyle Walker plays:

- approx three times more passes into the final third,
- twice as many progressive passes,
- and have a completion rate of 88 % in the PL while AWB is at 80 %

In other words, Walker is both more advanced (takes more risk with his passing) and losses the ball less. There is a huge gulf between the two quality wise.

And yes, Walkers completion rate is inflated by playing in a better team (not enough to make up for the difference though). But while Kyle Walker is a key player in Man Citys build up, the best team in the league in terms of building from the back, AWB is a liability for a very average one.

While Walker have approx 30 percent more touches on the ball per 90 min, he has approx half the amount of ball losses (in terms of miscontrols and dispossessed).

A player like AWB would never feature for a Pep or Klopp team. Never.

I’m not a big fan of Wan Bissaka and would dearly love an upgrade, but I’d put nearly every metric you’ve quoted here as being the difference between the quality of the two teams and the coaching. I think there’d be a gnats dick in between the two of them stats wise if they both played in similar set ups with equal quality teams.

Put Walker in our team with the same lack of movement and inability to retain the ball, thus inviting pressure, and he’d have the same or worse stats than AwB.

 

[Jericholyte2]

I’d personally rather sell Dalot, sign a better attacking RB and have AWB as the defensive cover / alternative.

 

[Zed 101]

The point was regarding his tackling and having to do 1v1 defending. He doesn't tackle that way because of positioning.

in your opinion

 

[Zed 101]

Perhaps that is the heart of the matter. If a Saudi club comes in with an offer of 100m obviously we should -- as the bizarre saying goes -- bite the Saudi club's hand off (presumably, so goes the logic of the metaphor, before they have a chance to realize how daft they are making such a ridiculous offer). But no one is going to offer even 50m for AWB.

So what would be "the right offer"? Before we come up with a number like 25m keep in mind that if we sell AWB we are definitely going to have to bring in a new RB, either a starting RB or Dalot's cover. That new player, however obscure he may be, is going to cost us well above 25m. Unless the upgrade on AWB is going to be significant, it would be daft to sell him for at most 25m but probably have to spend close above 50m for that significant upgrade. I refer to the United tax that every one of us is or should be fully aware of.

And who is out there, anyway, who's reasonably gettable (thus, no Kyle Walker) that both represents a significant upgrade on AWB and would cost us no more than 50m?

I would say that he and Dalot are on par, if anything I prefer Dalot, so we could have the luxury of getting a youth prospect

The issue as stated is something has to happen with AWB next year, new contract, sell or lose on free, we will probably need to but a replacement in the next 12 months or sign him to a new contract it is not something that can be ignored, I would prefer spending on a different player

 

[CM]

Fair enough. What transfer fee should we budget for a RB and who should we target?

Depends on the overall budget, who we can sell and how many other players we sign.

I liked the look of Livramento a couple of years ago pre-injury but that one probably wouldn't be possible since the Newcastle move. Truthfully, I haven't watched enough football outside of United this year to be particularly bothered about a specific name. It's not a position that necessarily requires a big outlay so I wouldn't mind seeing a more creative solution if it helps us get the players we need in other areas of the team.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

I’m not a big fan of Wan Bissaka and would dearly love an upgrade, but I’d put nearly every metric you’ve quoted here as being the difference between the quality of the two teams and the coaching. I think there’d be a gnats dick in between the two of them stats wise if they both played in similar set ups with equal quality teams.

Put Walker in our team with the same lack of movement and inability to retain the ball, thus inviting pressure, and he’d have the same or worse stats than AwB.

100 per cent this. People often use stats to compare players without the balance of context. City kee the ball more than us so their players numbers will automatically be higher than other players in the same position.
Also it depends on the role the player is asked to perform rather than their potential or ability.

Wan will always loose the eye test as he appears clumsy at times and I do think people see his personality as passive. Maybe he could be a bit more organised and gritty but these things depend on team mates and tactics too.

I do think Walkers ability on the ball is exaggerated. I’ve seen him loose the ball or get caught out for England similar to what Wan does for United but his reputation, for me, makes him less open to criticism from observers as some like Arron does.

 

[Bwuk]

You could easily make an arguement for Walker as the best RB of the Prem era, and he’s at least top 3.

Wan Bissaka can’t even get on the England bench. Hes nowhere near Walker and never has been, and the delusion we have of our own players being at levels they just aren’t is staggering.

 

[Oldyella]

Aside from about half a dozen players, all of the squad should be available for sale. Only issue should be asking prices.

 

[SungSam7]

AWB isn't a priority, him or Dalot should only leave if we can get a player from the Academy to cover and we need funds.

We shouldn't be depending on our defense to bail us out as much as the team does. The issue lies with the midfield losing the ball as often as they do (Bruno being the main culprit) while also the front 3 not providing enough goals to put teams to bed. They are the main things we need to use our budget on, then work on the defense afterwards.

 

[Remember the geese]

You could easily make an arguement for Walker as the best RB of the Prem era, and he’s at least top 3.

Wan Bissaka can’t even get on the England bench. Hes nowhere near Walker and never has been, and the delusion we have of our own players being at levels they just aren’t is staggering.

I know, right? Do people actually watch our matches?

 

[Remember the geese]

Aside from about half a dozen players, all of the squad should be available for sale. Only issue should be asking prices.

Exactly this. A few of the experienced players and the kids. They can stay. Anyone else, I'd happily boot out.

 

[RedSky]

I’d personally rather sell Dalot, sign a better attacking RB and have AWB as the defensive cover / alternative.

Agreed. Given that Dalot is meant to be an attacking fullback his actual end product is woeful. Stats back that up too.

 

[aeh1991]

I’d personally rather sell Dalot, sign a better attacking RB and have AWB as the defensive cover / alternative.

Have been saying this for years. Also, we're so gonna miss the chance to sign Frimpong for his release clause, aren't we? Would be typically us.

 

[andersj]

There has been several videos of Klopp on my time line on different SoMes the past few days. One where he is in studio with Carragher in 2015/2016 where quite relevant. Klopp made the case that he was not worried about how good a fullback could defend 1v1 «because a fullback should never be 1v1». In his view it was apparant that it in a well organized team that ability was of little value.

I think that is the case for any team. And it is part of the reason I really dont rate AWB much. His most unique quality is of little value to a modern football team. And his weaknesses is so crucial.

 

[United888]

I’d personally rather sell Dalot, sign a better attacking RB and have AWB as the defensive cover / alternative.

Agreed. Given that Dalot is meant to be an attacking fullback his actual end product is woeful. Stats back that up too.

Dalot is more suitable to play in the inverted role, which is the role we are using him right now and it’s not a role where he will stay wide to attack and cross. Bissaka doesn’t suit the inverted role at all and also he doesn’t have the attacking output to play attacking full back role that provides crosses. We need to be consistent with our right back role, if we keep changing the role of our right back, it won’t benefit the whole team because the other players will need to adapt to the changes.

 

[Dan_F]

Why are we even bothering to compare AWB to walker

Not what I expected when I opened the thread. I think I’ll leave before getting sucked in

 

[Superden]

Let's get rid of our deadwood / crap players..

Nooo not that one he's quite good actually. If even he's done nothing of note and no decent club wants him...

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Getting rid of the wrong RB, Dalot is the useless one.

 

[Hound Dog]

Why are we even bothering to compare AWB to walker

This forum had such bangers as Figo vs Giggs and Mbappe vs Rashford, so this is just staying true to form.

 

[Remember the geese]

This forum had such bangers as Figo vs Giggs and Mbappe vs Rashford, so this is just staying true to form.

Figo vs Giggs is a genuine debate.

 

[Onerealunited]

AWB or Dalot, whoever we can sell for a fair price should be sold. None are good enouh for us... We should get a proper attacking RB and whoever is back of AWB / dalot should stay as a backup, and backup only... Let the market decide who is to be sent away