Wan-Bissaka for sale

AltiUn

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You could have posted this in basically any thread. :(
I know, it’s depressing :lol:
 

sullydnl

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Yes they both do, because the fullbacks have far more work to do defensively than our rival teams. Theres a reason for that. The midfield protection and the CBs arent as good for us.

And yes, accumulation/number of times they managed to do something defensively is defensive quality. The more you have to do the more likely you're going to make a mistake eventually. So when our rivals fullbacks are responsible for most of the goals they concede, which is the case at City and Liverpool, its worse than if our fullbacks are constantly defending and constantly under pressure and having to constantly compete for the ball and eventually they make a mistake. Because anyone would.
Contributing to the factors that reduce the the amount of hard defensive actions your team has to make in is also defensive quality though. Positioning and ability in possession being the two most obvious examples. And clearly what's required of fullbacks in the better sides skews towards those aspects of defending.

For example in sides like this City one or ETH's Ajax, possession and what you contribute in possession is the first and foremost form of defending. And that then more important defensive quality directly reduces the amount of hard defensive actions you have to take. At which point pointing to those hard defensive stats as a sign of good defending makes no sense. Good defending is what they're contributing to keeping those stats as low as they are.

If someone's concept of what makes fullbacks good defensively leads them to the conclusion that AWB and Dalot are better than the Liverpool and City fullbacks (as taking those Fbref stats on face value would suggest) then clearly there's something askew with their view of how defending works. Otherwise we just conclude the worst teams in the league tend to have better defenders than the best, as they will inevitably have to make more tackles and interceptions.
 

BAMSOLA

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I don't see wan-bissaka as a lost cause, still reasonably young at 24 and just looks to me like more intensive final third training is needed. For me the things that are wrong with him going forward are easily fixed by consistent attacking training and providing him with simple instructions on what he should be aiming to do in most scenarios in attack. I look at it much like Smallings transformation into a ball playing cb under Van Gaal, with the right technical training most footballer can become an effective if not exceptional presence in attack.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I don't see wan-bissaka as a lost cause, still reasonably young at 24 and just looks to me like more intensive final third training is needed. For me the things that are wrong with him going forward are easily fixed by consistent attacking training and providing him with simple instructions on what he should be aiming to do in most scenarios in attack. I look at it much like Smallings transformation into a ball playing cb under Van Gaal, with the right technical training most footballer can become an effective if not exceptional presence in attack.
What you are forgetting is that, this is ten Hag not LVG. Being Dutch manager/coach, doesn't mean they have the same minimum demand or requirement in his players.
 

hobbers

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I don't see wan-bissaka as a lost cause, still reasonably young at 24 and just looks to me like more intensive final third training is needed. For me the things that are wrong with him going forward are easily fixed by consistent attacking training and providing him with simple instructions on what he should be aiming to do in most scenarios in attack. I look at it much like Smallings transformation into a ball playing cb under Van Gaal, with the right technical training most footballer can become an effective if not exceptional presence in attack.
His problems aren't limited to the attacking third, he's a catastrophe with the ball anywhere on the pitch. He'd also struggle to learn his way out of a paper bag.
 

MadDogg

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I don't see wan-bissaka as a lost cause, still reasonably young at 24 and just looks to me like more intensive final third training is needed. For me the things that are wrong with him going forward are easily fixed by consistent attacking training and providing him with simple instructions on what he should be aiming to do in most scenarios in attack. I look at it much like Smallings transformation into a ball playing cb under Van Gaal, with the right technical training most footballer can become an effective if not exceptional presence in attack.
His final ball into the box when he gets in the final third is actually decent. Better than Dalot. He just doesn't get into position to use it often enough.

It's the build-up out of the back where he's very poor.
 

sdb4884

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He's not worth persisting with, sell now whilst he still has some value. He speaks French apparently so maybe a loan/sale to Ligue 1 isn't out the question.
 

Sandikan

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Season loan back to Palace or someone, with a suggested fee of 5m knowing us.
While we trouser 50% of the wages too.
 

DannyCAFC

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Would Palace even want him back? They play a very different brand of football now compared to when Hodgson was there.

I think the only potential opening for him in the PL next season might be Bournemouth, every other team either has better options already or he doesn't fit their setup.
 

VanDeBank

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Yes, but also ETH's high line emphasizes a lot of 1 vs 1 defending, especially on the counter. AWB is perfect for that. Also judging by how he set up the FBs to tuck in and play the DM role in possession, I think AWB could play the Mazraoui role in possession.
:lol:
This is like saying Maguire can dictate play like Beckenbauer.

Mazraoui is amazing on the ball and doesnt shit himself in midfield. AWB cant pass and is clueless anywhere else but hugging the side line. Also Ajax's fullbacks dont do a lot of 1 one 1 defending, so you're wrong there as well.
 

Caesar2290

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Defensive quality is notoriously difficult to measure statistically. As random examples, take a look at VVD, Robertson and Walker's defensive stats:







The main takeaway from the defensive stats you posted for AWB is that he has to make more hard defensive actions than you'd ideally like. It doesn't tell you much about how well he actually defends.

Highlighting that further, Dalot also registers well for certain key defensive stats:

Oh I agree. They are difficult to measure, but it's important to look at % wise vs numbers in general.

For example: a team on the front foot like Pool or City are going to do a lot less defending than say Wolves or Brentford, that's why the number of challenges they make doesn't mean much. What matters is % of those successful challenges. That's why those numbers you listed seem so low, because they don't reflect the success %. I'm fairly certain that they must be in the the higher tiers for successful %.
 

diarm

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The fact those FBRef stats have him at an 84% pass completion rate makes me doubt their entire platform.

Unless it's a percentage of passes played into touch, there is simply no way in hell that number is accurate.
 

2 man midfield

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From 10k to 80k :lol:

No wonder players think they’ve made it when they arrive.
 

sullydnl

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The fact those FBRef stats have him at an 84% pass completion rate makes me doubt their entire platform.

Unless it's a percentage of passes played into touch, there is simply no way in hell that number is accurate.
That seemingly high pass completion is somewhat explained when you look at the quality of passes he made:




He maintains his decent pass completion through an abundance of safer sideways/backwards passes and non-threatening passes. Which basically makes him a dead end for us in possession and helps shut down our right flank. I would guess a lot of that pass completion is built on passes straight back to Lindelof/Varane.

Whereas Dalot in comparison has a lower pass completion (80% in the last 365 days) but that's because he's doing more with it:




While neither offers near enough in terms of end product, Dalot is much better at actually moving the ball forward out of defence and into attacking areas, even under greater opposition pressure. He's ahead of AWB in terms of his carrying stats too, albeit to a lesser degree.

And that's likely the main reason he seems to be favoured over AWB by ETH. If you place heavy emphasis on playing out of defence, one offers a lot more than the other.
 

izak

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They all want to fight now, once the going get tough they'll throw ETH under the bus... we should be pushing to get whatever fee we can, he won't be any better than he already is And that's him being a very shit RB.
 

Red_toad

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They all want to fight now, once the going get tough they'll throw ETH under the bus... we should be pushing to get whatever fee we can, he won't be any better than he already is And that's him being a very shit RB.
If the club gets the players Ten Hag wants in, then they won't be throwing the boss under the bus. Ten Hag is in a very strong position, the club needs success and if 3 or 4 players try crapping on that they'll be left to rot or shipped out on loan.
 

Gurtej

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He wants to fight as no one else will give him 50% of what he makes here
 

Kag

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Ten Hag needs to be explicit with players he doesn’t want: leave or play football with the U23s.

Van Gaal didn’t get too much right, but when he decided a player wasn’t for him then it didn’t take them very long to leave.
 

Andy_Cole

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I was surprised he was one of the players we want out. He seems to have the right attitude, even some fantastic defensive ability. He’s very raw. I thought he’d be one player who could excel under some world class man management.
 

croadyman

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I was surprised he was one of the players we want out. He seems to have the right attitude, even some fantastic defensive ability. He’s very raw. I thought he’d be one player who could excel under some world class man management.
No doubt a brilliant one on one defender but just can't see Erik turning him into TAA
 

No Idea For Nickname

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They all want to fight now, once the going get tough they'll throw ETH under the bus... we should be pushing to get whatever fee we can, he won't be any better than he already is And that's him being a very shit RB.
Few months ago we had eithr 11 or 17 players wanting to leave.
Now they all want to stay fight for their place. Great. Lucky us.
 

Judas

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I'd happily see the back of him for 25 million. He's rubbish. If Ten Hag can make a top level player out of him, then my god he's a special manager.