The Moyes bashing gets beyond the pale at times. I like Allardyce, and hope West Ham pay a price for their treatment of him. However, the United squad left behind by Ferguson was going to be no easy task for even the likes of Mourinho, Klopp or Pep to retain a premiership title, much less Moyes or Allardyce. I'm increasingly of the opinion that only Fergie would've kept us competitive, and even then, I have a few doubts.
Was Moyes really our first choice to replace Ferguson? - Mourinho confirms he was offered the job
- Thread starter Dominos
- Start date
This is the 200 Million Moyes would have spent on...possibly the worst spent 200 million in football history? No disrespect to the man but could he have crumbled an empire single handedly through not having a single iota what he was doing?
-------------------------Howard---------------------
Clyne-------Hummels----Dragovic---------Shaw----
Nani-------Carvalho-----Fellaini--------Konoplyanka
--------------------Rooney----------------------------
--------------------Cavani-----------------------------
-------------------------Howard---------------------
Clyne-------Hummels----Dragovic---------Shaw----
Nani-------Carvalho-----Fellaini--------Konoplyanka
--------------------Rooney----------------------------
--------------------Cavani-----------------------------
I never wanted Moyes appointed as United manager and thought the club absolutely made the right decision in sacking him when they did, but this seems a ludicrously unfair criticism to aim at him. There's no way to know who he would or would not have signed (although there's good reason to think that this wouldn't have been his choice XI), and at any rate, Van Gaal has spent c. £150m thus far on a group of players who haven't done appreciably better than this particular list might have done. Van Gaal is obviously a superior manager to Moyes, and there are plenty of sticks to use to beat Moyes over the head with without having to resort to ridiculous hypothetical transfer target XI's.
Moyes was no doubt a clown, but are selling dreams right now if you think he would have bought Howard. Also this summer we ourselves have thrown £150million down the drain, £60million was for Di Maria a guy who has done feck all for us. So you can't really use that as a stick to beat Moyes with. Also we need a striker badly, Cavani would have likely been a better buy than Di Maria tbh, and we would have more points with the goals he could have bought.
In terms of that 11, Hummels, Dragovic and Carvalho are all players we can do with right now, we was also heavily linked with Kroos before Moyes was sacked, apparantly he wanted to play Carvalho and Kroos together which means our midfield under Moyes would look better than it does now.
Wow, there're even people claiming to predict how Moyes would waste 200 million pounds and it's all Moyes' fault. lol.
Well, at least not everyone is blindly bashing.
Seriously, let him have his peace already, guys.
There's no point blindly bashing a man who tried his best and failed. How would any of you feel if you took on a new job, flunked the job badly and they post a video of your failures on youtube and the whole world laughs and mocks you for the rest of your life? Failure is an event. Not a person. Moyes may have failed, but he tried his best despite all the shit that was going on around him. We can't fault him for that. Heck, the whole world knew he was going to be sacked before he himself was informed. That's how shitty everything was at the time. Have some pity, guys.
Well, at least not everyone is blindly bashing.
Seriously, let him have his peace already, guys.
There's no point blindly bashing a man who tried his best and failed. How would any of you feel if you took on a new job, flunked the job badly and they post a video of your failures on youtube and the whole world laughs and mocks you for the rest of your life? Failure is an event. Not a person. Moyes may have failed, but he tried his best despite all the shit that was going on around him. We can't fault him for that. Heck, the whole world knew he was going to be sacked before he himself was informed. That's how shitty everything was at the time. Have some pity, guys.
Back to the OP's post, I'm inclined to agree that Mourinho was heavily being courted by Chelsea by the time Sir Alex told him privately of his upcomming retirement, similarly with Pep who was already speaking/agreed with Bayern.
But then Sir Alex always rated Moyes highly, he'd always drop his name when it came to the best managers in the PL over the years, then theres the staggeringly obvious fact moved so fast post announcement, and gave him a 6 year contract, it was obviously somethinhg we'd prepared several months for in advance.
Speculation, but I'm also of the opinion if it wasnt for the Aguerooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo goal Sir Alex may have retired that summer, but felt he couldn't walk away from his dynasty on such a low moment, and held off retirement one more season, if that had any inkling of truth to it, then all of those managers could have been available and considered when we were planning long in advance.
But then Sir Alex always rated Moyes highly, he'd always drop his name when it came to the best managers in the PL over the years, then theres the staggeringly obvious fact moved so fast post announcement, and gave him a 6 year contract, it was obviously somethinhg we'd prepared several months for in advance.
Speculation, but I'm also of the opinion if it wasnt for the Aguerooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo goal Sir Alex may have retired that summer, but felt he couldn't walk away from his dynasty on such a low moment, and held off retirement one more season, if that had any inkling of truth to it, then all of those managers could have been available and considered when we were planning long in advance.
I'm pretty sure Sir Alex said so himself in his book. But I don't see a reason not to believe him when he says the decision to retire was take half way during the season. And options were still there in December 2012.
Im not so sure Moyes would have lasted getting top 4.
Your basing everything on the assumption that everything said in public was the utmost truth. United on the inside might very well have wanted many others before Moyes, and may have seen Moyes as a buffer until a big name became available. They aren't going to let that be known though are they, United aren't a club to come out and say this is our interim manager, we have no confidence in him long term but until we get our guy he'll do. No, they come out and say we believe in this guy, then if by some minor miracle he goes and wins the league, or remoulds the team into something that has a future, bonus, if not, get a proper manager. As it was, he was crap in all areas.
If Moyes had got top 4 last year he might have stayed, but personally I don't think he definitely would have, im not sure top 4 would have been enough necessarily as his management in general was piss poor. The team looked shoddy, unenthused, tactically inept and like it was going nowhere. He had no ideas and was being tactically outdone at every turn. No chance can I see United looking at his first year, even with top four and thinking "yes, this is the guy were going to give 2-400million to over the next few years to rebuilt this team. Instead id be thinking, "thank feck he managed to keep top four, now lets get a proper manager in to do the rebuilding".
As for the stuff on Fergie, sounds like nonsense to me. Fergie spent 2 years before he retired openly meeting with some of the best managers in the world who coincidentally would potentially be available. And unless you have access to Fergie's diary, there no way you can say for sure that Moyes was Fergie's first choice. Much more likely was he met with Mourinho/Pep etc over his last few years sounding them out. When it came to it the main targets were not available and so Moyes was brought in as a solid place-holder with potential to be better.
Everyone still remember this? 
Season didn't turn out too well for "dem Moyes boys", did it?
Season didn't turn out too well for "dem Moyes boys", did it?
Here is my awesome conspiracy theory.
Fergie knew that the club was in decline and that he had milked a miracle from a dried up teet. In Moyes he saw a convenient transition. Even if he didn't recognize the decline of many of our key and influential players for the last ~decade, putting up a straw man in Moyes is the ultimate in pragmatism. The idea being that no matter what a transition to a new manager is going to be extremely difficult, made even more so by Fergie milking aforementioned miracle from nothing. Expectation then is that the team is going to struggle the following season, let's just assume we had gotten LVG last year, and he takes that squad and struggles to 4th, or even 5th and we miss the Champions League. Compare that with Moyes taking us to 7th and getting the sack and then LVG coming in this year and taking us to 4th. LVG is seen more as a savior rescuing the club from Moyes, even if LVG would have struggled to make top 4 himself last season.
Basically, is Fergie an evil genius making the best out of a terrible situation? Is he like a wolverine, caught in a trap he'd rather chew his leg off and live another day, than end up as someones hat?!
Fergie knew that the club was in decline and that he had milked a miracle from a dried up teet. In Moyes he saw a convenient transition. Even if he didn't recognize the decline of many of our key and influential players for the last ~decade, putting up a straw man in Moyes is the ultimate in pragmatism. The idea being that no matter what a transition to a new manager is going to be extremely difficult, made even more so by Fergie milking aforementioned miracle from nothing. Expectation then is that the team is going to struggle the following season, let's just assume we had gotten LVG last year, and he takes that squad and struggles to 4th, or even 5th and we miss the Champions League. Compare that with Moyes taking us to 7th and getting the sack and then LVG coming in this year and taking us to 4th. LVG is seen more as a savior rescuing the club from Moyes, even if LVG would have struggled to make top 4 himself last season.
Basically, is Fergie an evil genius making the best out of a terrible situation? Is he like a wolverine, caught in a trap he'd rather chew his leg off and live another day, than end up as someones hat?!
We'd not been linked with Dragovic when Moyes was here.
In the new documentary Mourinho and Sir Alex both confirm Mourinho was set to take over from Ferguson but decided to rejoin Chelsea instead.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cr7kldj1583o
As suspected, the narrative around Moyes being first choice was PR. I'm almost certain the stories about Ancelotti turning us down for Madrid are true as well.
If you look at it from Sir Alex’s perspective, he genuinely believed he successfully rebuilt the team and was leaving a squad that would challenge for years without having to make radical changes.
Goalkeeper was sorted with De Gea. He brought through Evans, Jones, Smalling and Rafael. He had Shinji, Welbeck and Chicharito in attack. He bought Nick Powell, who if you read Sir Alex’s book was absolutely convinced was going to be a top player and Zaha. All these players were under 25 and that was to complement Carrick, RVP, Vidic, Valencia, Nani, Rio, Evra and Giggs.
In hindsight you may disagree with his thinking and assessment of the players but he just won the league with them by a wide margin.
Goalkeeper was sorted with De Gea. He brought through Evans, Jones, Smalling and Rafael. He had Shinji, Welbeck and Chicharito in attack. He bought Nick Powell, who if you read Sir Alex’s book was absolutely convinced was going to be a top player and Zaha. All these players were under 25 and that was to complement Carrick, RVP, Vidic, Valencia, Nani, Rio, Evra and Giggs.
In hindsight you may disagree with his thinking and assessment of the players but he just won the league with them by a wide margin.
Shame we dodged the bullet once just to catch it later on.
Still, makes sense to me that Moyes wasn't first pick, and fits with some of Ferguson's previous comments. Clearly he and the club overestimated Moyes as a manager, but the idea that Ferguson saw him as the single outstanding candidate in world football never rang true.
Still, makes sense to me that Moyes wasn't first pick, and fits with some of Ferguson's previous comments. Clearly he and the club overestimated Moyes as a manager, but the idea that Ferguson saw him as the single outstanding candidate in world football never rang true.
wasn't there talk of guardiola too?
Klopps the closest thing ive seen to Fergie in foot all, no we tried later on but I think timing is essentially the issue. If timing bad been different and Klopp could take over right after Fergie I think we go on to win a title under him.
Think Mourinho right after Ferguson would at least challenge for the title, not necessarily win.
Pep was taking a year off in 12/13 but agreed in December to take over Bayern for the following season, so I think that took him out the running.
To me it was never the responsibility of Sir Alex to identify let alone choose his successor. He can have a say but the club shouldn't have relied on him. The club should have conducted thorough research over the years, so that when Sir Alex called it a day, he would have been presented with options we had already identified. That also gave us a head start, the managers knew if Sir Alex leaves we're gonna contact them.
Instead the club (not Sir Alex) contacted how many people...? three? Jose, Pep, Moyes. First two obviously you had to prepare in advance. It all seemed rushed to me. Much like the Fellaini signing. Everything was going well for so long that they became lazy.
Instead the club (not Sir Alex) contacted how many people...? three? Jose, Pep, Moyes. First two obviously you had to prepare in advance. It all seemed rushed to me. Much like the Fellaini signing. Everything was going well for so long that they became lazy.
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What could have been 
It’s hard to imagine anyone doing worse with the United squad than Moyes did.
This was a team that had strolled to the league the year before, the bare minimum expectation should have been at least a title challenge the following season.
Standards have all but collapsed since then. To the point that saving money rather than getting the best possible team is seen as the priority now.
This was a team that had strolled to the league the year before, the bare minimum expectation should have been at least a title challenge the following season.
Standards have all but collapsed since then. To the point that saving money rather than getting the best possible team is seen as the priority now.
I think it'd have still all ended in tears. Mourinho was already broken by that point. His Madrid stint turned him into a bitter, angry man. His Chelsea return was hardly an unqualified success, even if he did manage to squeeze out one more title (with a much better squad than he'd have had at United, including Hazard at his absolute peak). And then everyone got to see what happened with him at United anyway, which was largely misery on both sides and everyone being glad when he fecked off.What could have been
Who cares. We're a fanbase who sided with Martial and Pogba over Mourinho. I can only imagine the shit storm had he started laying in to the ageing legends in the squad Fergie left behind. The relationship was never going to work, Mourinho is built for a different kind of club
Ok so maybe I can get less annoyed cos I was fuming at the time when he didn't come cos he was the only person (along with Pep) that could have taken the responsibility. The dressing room needed someone like him to take over after
I also strongly believe that a Mourinho or Pep then would have meant a tamed Woodward. By the time Mourinho came Woodward was in a different planet and fueled by his previous years
I also strongly believe that a Mourinho or Pep then would have meant a tamed Woodward. By the time Mourinho came Woodward was in a different planet and fueled by his previous years
Those legends always spoke highly of Mourinho. They'd have respected him a lot more than Moyes so I don't think it's a fair comparison
Also a Mourinho in 2016 was also hampered by a Woodward who was drunk on his own power. Had there been a strong manager like Mourinho or Pep then I doubt Woodward gets the same level of delusion that quickly
All that respect means nothing when we're going through a bad patch and fragile egos start lashing out.
We all know who Mounrinho is and what he's capable of. We know it would be ended badly no matter when he joined us
I never said it would not have ended badly, I don't think we'd have started nearly a decade and a half of being in the wilderness as early as we did if he had come in
Moyes fell out instantly with the big ego's and I have little doubt under Mourinho those who followed SAF would follow Mourinho. You needed a big ego and a big CV to come in straight after SAF to at least slow the sinking or hold on as long as you could. We didn't get either and it showed
To be honest my biggest issues were Moyes getting it, but it really felt like that was what gave Woodward power that was hard to pull back from him after. A stronger manager from the get go I don't think would have let him get all that
It's all speculation and nothing now can be proved but that's always been my feeling. The only thing that now changes is I did at least know we went for Mourinho and it was obvious to Ferguson and co what was needed, just couldn't get it over the line
I think we would have won the league. Still would have ended badly though.
Yep. But he would have got that monkey off our back, and it would have helped us immensely over the proceeding years.
There were rumours flying around in SAFs last season. It became obvious he was going to retire end of the season after seeing his reaction to Nani's sending off in the match against Madrid and Mourinho post match interview. Bobby and a few others around the club were no fans of Mourinho. With valid reason.
I think it was between Ancelotti and Mourinho at first. Pep was having the foundations laid for him at City so he was out. Ancelotti had already agreed his deal with Madrid so he was out. SAF liked Mourinho but Bobby and other board members didn't like his antics. So we ended up with Moyes. Who was well out of his depth. You can only assume the logic was that he would not rock the boat and just carry on with the current coaching team and have a hefty budget to spend bringing in players to supplement the team that had just won the PL. Instead, he replaced the coaching team with his Everton coaches and bottled spending any money. Probably because he'd never had that amount of money to spend before and was terrified of being ripped off.
If we got Ancelotti or Mourinho in immediately post SAF. I reckon we'd have won another title or at least come very close. They could have attracted some top players to enhance the squad and carried over the momentum from the title win. Even if it went tits up after that, the manager that followed after that gets a clean slate to build from.
I think it was between Ancelotti and Mourinho at first. Pep was having the foundations laid for him at City so he was out. Ancelotti had already agreed his deal with Madrid so he was out. SAF liked Mourinho but Bobby and other board members didn't like his antics. So we ended up with Moyes. Who was well out of his depth. You can only assume the logic was that he would not rock the boat and just carry on with the current coaching team and have a hefty budget to spend bringing in players to supplement the team that had just won the PL. Instead, he replaced the coaching team with his Everton coaches and bottled spending any money. Probably because he'd never had that amount of money to spend before and was terrified of being ripped off.
If we got Ancelotti or Mourinho in immediately post SAF. I reckon we'd have won another title or at least come very close. They could have attracted some top players to enhance the squad and carried over the momentum from the title win. Even if it went tits up after that, the manager that followed after that gets a clean slate to build from.
You could tell something was happening from how he spoke after Real knocked us out in the CL, with all that “the better team lost” stuff, which was arguably true on the night but not what you often hear Mourinho say. I assumed at that time he was just fishing for the job but maybe they were talking then.
He had a good time at Chelsea but I do think that United were the better pick, and it would have been the right time for him then, when it was probably the wrong time a few years later. Mourinho would have had the kind of respect Moyes never had, and with that strong squad, could have made a real challenge. Three years later though we needed a rebuild, which isn’t really Jose’s thing, and with Woodward overseeing the recruitment, it ended up a bit of a mess.
He had a good time at Chelsea but I do think that United were the better pick, and it would have been the right time for him then, when it was probably the wrong time a few years later. Mourinho would have had the kind of respect Moyes never had, and with that strong squad, could have made a real challenge. Three years later though we needed a rebuild, which isn’t really Jose’s thing, and with Woodward overseeing the recruitment, it ended up a bit of a mess.
There's a lot of rewriting of history of that time.
In 2013, Moyes was well thought of within football. He was a good manager and had been linked with the Chelsea job between the two Mourinho spells. Think Spurs looked at him pre and post Redknapp. A lot of people (not just Fergie) genuinely thought he could make the step up.
For all his faults, the club's planning for post Fergie was non existent and even a prime Mourinho would have struggled in that first season.
If Moyes had been backed in the transfer market, maybe it could have worked, at least in the short term.
Mourinho, on the other hand, was disliked by a lot of fans and probably a lot within the club itself. He'd fallen out with pretty much everyone at Real Madrid and even then, people were starting to think he was on the decline.
Guardiola had his entire next decade planned out and was rumoured to be in talks with city even if he didn't go there until 2016.
In 2013, Moyes was well thought of within football. He was a good manager and had been linked with the Chelsea job between the two Mourinho spells. Think Spurs looked at him pre and post Redknapp. A lot of people (not just Fergie) genuinely thought he could make the step up.
For all his faults, the club's planning for post Fergie was non existent and even a prime Mourinho would have struggled in that first season.
If Moyes had been backed in the transfer market, maybe it could have worked, at least in the short term.
Mourinho, on the other hand, was disliked by a lot of fans and probably a lot within the club itself. He'd fallen out with pretty much everyone at Real Madrid and even then, people were starting to think he was on the decline.
Guardiola had his entire next decade planned out and was rumoured to be in talks with city even if he didn't go there until 2016.
Peak Jose, with a title winning United side and a wide array of talent available to sign that summer, would have meant things were completely different. We’d have won a league title with him most definitely, gone far in the UCL, and probably been in a much better place today as a result.
Moyes started the rot at the club by getting rid of all the backroom staff and overseeing an absolutely disastrous transfer window that he personally led himself.
Moyes started the rot at the club by getting rid of all the backroom staff and overseeing an absolutely disastrous transfer window that he personally led himself.
We would have been great under him at that time. We had many players with warrior mentality, something Jose wants in every player.What could have been
We had Vidic, Ferdinand, Carrick, Rooney, RvP as our spine. He would have loved that squad.
Shame that we got him when Woodward’s clown show was in full effect. The squad had too many average players and the players with winning mentality were already shipped out.
Exactly. With Mourinho in 2013-2016 period when league was weak, we win a league or two. With Mourinho in 2016-2018 (after 3 poor transfer windows under Moyes and LvG) we finish 2nd because there's Pep now around.
Yeah. There was talk of wanting pep, klopp and mou before moyes
“See where they play, how they play, if they play”.
I don’t think SAF realized fully, how good he actually was, like, I genuinely think in some ways he underrated his abilities.
He always spoke about the players, how good they were, etc.
Nah, no manager on the planet could’ve won the premier league with Cleverley in midfield and without effective wingers, like we did in 2013, none of our wingers were good or consistent that season, our defense wasn’t very good either.
Nani, Kagawa, Anderson, Fabio, Rafael, Powell, Cleverley, look at their club careers post 2013.
Vidic, Giggs and Rio were essentially retired soon after that.
Not really. None of the people I know who are United supporters thought Moyes was a good option at the time.
I knew he would be an absolute disaster from day one, I never thought we would finish 7th though, didn’t expect it to be that bad,
There were very very few people around who could’ve come in and do a solid job replacing the greatest manager of all time who spent 26(!) years at the club, and became essentially bigger than the club.
I know his mantra was “no one is bigger than the club”, SAF kind of was though.
David Moyes was not one of these people.
In hindsight though, I think we should’ve stuck with Moyes, his best attribute as manager was probably his work in the transfer market, he’s had an eye for good players with the budget he’s had available, as Everton manager.
Kroos was all but set to join, he would’ve been a great addition.
I think Moyes would’ve spent the Van Gaal money far more wisely and would’ve left a far better team for the next manager to take it to the next level.
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And Ancelotti.
We tried going for the best, got stuck with the rest
Reckon he would have worked well with our 'old guard' as he always seems to work better with more experienced players. Im sure he wouldn't have been as reluctant as Moyes in signings too. Would have gone wrong eventually like you say, but another league title not under Fergie would have worked wonders for the club.
It is clearly obvious we tried Jose/Pep and even Ancelotti (committed to real in early 2013), so I wont blame SAF for whole Moyes thing.
We went to Moyes only after getting NO from other top mangers.
He'd have been fantastic, one of few who could demand respect at that time. The squad was coming apart though so it would have been short lived without a major overhaul.