Was Moyes really our first choice to replace Ferguson?

[Dominos]

Was derailing another thread with this so thought I'd start a new one.

Never really seen this discussed in depth on here which is surprising given it's quite a big topic for the club. There's been some evidence contradicting the narrative that Moyes was the club's first choice and hand picked by Ferguson.

David Moyes was not Sir Alex Ferguson’s first choice to succeed him as Manchester United manager, with current Paris Saint-Germain boss Carlo Ancelotti believed to be the main target, according to French journalist Julien Laurens.

Laurens, who writes for French newspaper Le Parisien, believes Ferguson contacted the former Chelsea manager last week to ask him to take over at Old Trafford, but Ancelotti declined the invitation, leaving United to approach Everton boss Moyes.

Laurens posted on Twitter: ‘Very reliable sources tell Le Parisien that Sir Alex Ferguson called Carlo Ancelotti last week to ask him to succeed him.

Manchester United wanted history-making manager Carlo Ancelotti to take over from Sir Alex Ferguson last year, according to Real Madrid president Florentino Perez.

Speaking on Spanish radio Perez suggested Sir Alex Ferguson only chose David Moyes after Ancelotti told him he was replacing Jose Mourinho at Real Madrid.

Perez said: 'Ferguson called him (Ancelotti) to be his successor but he told him he had already promised to come here with us.'

This was denied by Ancelotti at the time, calling the rumours a joke.

According to Portuguese newspaper Record, David Moyes was only the Old Trafford club’s second choice after the Real Madrid manager declined an offer.

It claims Manchester United officials had a five-year contract ready to offer to Mourinho but he declined for family reasons, so the Premier League champions then turned to their next choice in David Moyes.

The truth is that the Portuguese was United's preferred choice to take over that summer, was offered the position, then stepped away from it when Chelsea came calling.

A close friend of Ferguson's, Mourinho had actually spent much of the 2012/13 season discussing and preparing for the appointment. During the course of that final campaign, he and United held detailed discussions as to how he could combine moving his young family back to London and coaching in Manchester. Plans were even put in place for them to have use of a helicopter for trips between the two cities, enabling Mourinho's daughter and son to study in the capital.

Then an intervention from owner Roman Abramovich—who'd originally sought to bring Pep Guardiola to Stamford Bridge—changed everything.

Mourinho's affection for Chelsea, the feeling that he had unfinished business there, plus the opportunity to be with his family in London trumped the more accomplished squad, grander budget and greater security on offer at United. His change of direction forced England's champions-elect into a rapid switch of strategy.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...wn-manchester-united-job-to-return-to-chelsea

We know Ferguson had a meeting with Pep at some point in late 2012. I can't find anything concrete of him being offered the job however.

Now this, written by Fergie's ghost-writer, distances Fergie from the decision to appoint Moyes and mentions Pep, Mourinho and Ancelotti as the 3 other candidates considered before Moyes was offered the job.

In the molten days of Ferguson’s retirement last spring, it suited the United board to portray Moyes as the only sensible choice, the continuity candidate.

Thus it was easy to see Moyes as Ferguson’s mini-me. This was an appealing narrative for us in the media, as we gazed into the void left by Sir Alex’s departure. I should say, as the ghostwriter of his recent autobiography, that nobody asked me to write this piece. It is not an attempt to rewrite history. The truth, however, is that Moyes was one of several obvious candidates to take over from Ferguson in May last year. It was not a case of the incumbent appointing his own successor without consultation with his employers.

By his own admission Ferguson socialised in New York with the super-charismatic former Barcelona manager and now coach of Bayern Munich, Pep Guardiola, who was taking a sabbatical in Manhattan (Ferguson owns an apartment off Central Park). The idea of retiring first came to the boss of bosses in December 2012, around the time Guardiola was planning his return to management. It would not be inconceivable that the conversation between Ferguson and Guardiola in a swish New York restaurant drifted round to the possibility of the younger man managing United one day. By then, though, Guardiola was about to sign a contract with Bayern.

Equally the combative Jose Mourinho would have been on United’s list of potential replacements: a roll that would have been tucked in a drawer, at that stage, with no retirement officially pending. Mourinho, though, was being heavily courted by Roman Abramovich, Chelsea’s owner, and was keen on a return to London.

With Guardiola and Mourinho out of the running, the two most obvious contenders were Carlo Ancelotti, now manager of Real Madrid, and Moyes, who was thought more likely to stick around and build an empire. Ancelotti was a hired gun who would work in a two-to-three-year cycle, thinking more of trophies than the club’s foundations. This logic ultimately landed Moyes the job.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ally-The-Chosen-One-at-Manchester-United.html

So, what do we think? Usual media bollocks or have we been lead down the wrong path with "the chosen one" narrative?

 

[RooneyLegend]

No need to save Sir Alex's blushes on this one, Moyes should have never been an option at all.

 

[Ozio]

I've always seen it as him being the obvious choice, rather than the right choice. All the signs pointed to him being the successor, so when it actually happened there was a sense of romance about the whole thing.

 

[ghagua]

It's done and over with. No one can really be sure what happened, unless Fergie or Gill decide to mention that in their next "memoir". But from watching Fergie and Gill for so long, this was their "no value in transfer market" moment. There was only a field of 1 in the contender for the United manager after Fergie. They probably wanted someone who knew the Premier league and bring stability to the club.

 

[devilish]

Moyes was just the last of the Lidl style of signings which contributed greatly to turn us from CL champions to 7th place in the EPL in just less than a decade.

 

[Mindhunter]

Moyes presided over our worst season in premier league history. Yes, he was definitely the chosen one.

 

[Anderson's Cat]

Moyes was just the last of the Lidl style of signings which contributed greatly to turn us from CL champions to 7th place in the EPL in just less than a decade.

This

 

[Green_Red]

At the end of the day, whether he was 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 1 millionth choice, he was chosen as the successor in the end.

 

[LR7]

He shouldn't even have been on the list, never mind the second choice.

 

[Kill 'em all]

A mistake we had to make, hopefully it's not repeated again with the appointment of Giggs.

 

[Xaviesta]

One good thing that came out of the Moyes calamity for United was that they'll probably move away from the whole "stability breeding success" bollocks that Sir Bobby Charlton sprouted upon Moyes appointment.

 

[11101]

From what went on at the time it was fairly clear Mourinho wanted us and we turned him down, rather than the other way around.

If we turned Mourinho down i have no trouble believing Moyes actually was first choice. Whether that was genuinely what we thought was best for the club, or just a fall guy in case (as turned out to be the case) there was a big drop after Ferguson, I'm not sure.

 

[Varun]

So we went for ancelotti, mourinho and pep. That'd indicate going for managers based on CVs and not recommendations. How could David Moyes even feature in the candidates list let alone on 4th place if this was the case?

 

[Bojan11]

The way Mourinho was acting in our match against Real Madrid that you could see he wanted the job.

 

[Galactic]

The Available One.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The Available One.

The available one, the cheap one but inept one. The ninety crosses in a half one, the woefully failed and ridiculed one, the sacked and gone to mid table in Spain one. The thankfully in the past one so lets move on past that dour Gollum faced ginger Scottish one.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

It was such a negligent appointment that you almost wonder if he was set up to be the fall guy 99% with a 1% of a miracle and bringing success.

Widely reported Fergie wanted and met with Pep first but he had already committed to Bayern.

 

[Parry Gallister]

Urgh, too soon for this.

 

[Rood]

So, what do we think? Usual media bollocks or have we been lead down the wrong path with "the chosen one" narrative?

I dont believe he was the first choice.

As far as I understand, 3 people were involved in choosing who would succeed SAF: Gill (strongly favoured an experienced Euro manager - Jose/Pep/Ancelloti etc), Charlton (favoured keeping tradition with a British manager plus really hates Mourinho) and Fergie (somewhere in between the other 2).

I think Ancelloti and Pep were approached but it was too late as they had already verbally agreed to go elsewhere. Jose was up for the job, Gill and Fergie both rated him but Charlton vetoed it.

Looking at the UK managers available at the time, Moyes probably was the best of an average bunch - the Scottish story and track record with youth also appealled to Fergie and Charlton to continue the line of Busby and Ferguson so he got the job!

 

[Xaviesta]

I dont believe he was the first choice.

As far as I understand, 3 people were involved in choosing who would succeed SAF: Gill (strongly favoured an experienced Euro manager - Jose/Pep/Ancelloti etc), Charlton (favoured keeping tradition with a British manager plus really hates Mourinho) and Fergie (somewhere in between the other 2).

I think Ancelloti and Pep were approached but it was too late as they had already verbally agreed to go elsewhere. Jose was up for the job, Gill and Fergie both rated him but Charlton vetoed it.

Looking at the UK managers available at the time, Moyes probably was the best of an average bunch - the Scottish story and track record with youth also appealled to Fergie and Charlton to continue the line of Busby and Ferguson so he got the job!

Crazy if true.

 

[Ballache]

I have no doubt that had Mourinho been offered the job, he'd be our manager right now. Which makes the appointment of Moyes look even worse.

 

[Name Changed]

He should never have even been considered. Ferguson should not have endorsed it.

 

[Viral United]

What ever it is, Moyes was mistake,
As much I respect SAF he had made mistake for once.

 

[brian017]

Crazy if true.

Yeah. I've heard stories that he didn't want them as Utd manager because of his attitude and the way he conducts himself

 

[Xaviesta]

Yeah. I've heard stories that he didn't want them as Utd manager because of his attitude and the way he conducts himself

I was referring more to Charlton supposedly wanting a British manager, as opposed to Jose being a dick.

 

[brian017]

I was referring more to Charlton supposedly wanting a British manager, as opposed to Jose being a dick.

Here's what he had to say on the eye gouging incident:

"One of the most uncomfortable entries on an ever-lengthening charge sheet was Mourinho's gouging of the eye of Tito Vilanova, then Barcelona's assistant coach, in the 2011 Spanish Super Cup. "A United manager wouldn't do that," Charlton says. "Mourinho is a really good coach but that's as far as I would go really. He's the manager of Real Madrid and we expect to play them in the Champions League by the end of the season."

When it is put to him that it is difficult to imagine a United manager being allowed to get away with some of Mourinho's behaviour, Charlton says: "You are right. He pontificates too much for my liking. He's a good manager, though."

Whether it's because of his nationality, his lack of class or perhaps a mixture of the two; what's clear is he didn't really want him at United.

 

[Jaxa]

Ive said it before and ill say it again,

If Moyes wasn't Scottish he would not of been given that job, I think there was this nostalgic vision of a Great Scotsman leading our club to glory over all these years to then be Handed over to another who can continue the legacy.

Moyes credentials were no where near good enough to even make a Top 10 list of potential coaches to take over us, it was a massive mistake by Sir Alex and the club.

 

[Sarni]

I dont believe he was the first choice.

As far as I understand, 3 people were involved in choosing who would succeed SAF: Gill (strongly favoured an experienced Euro manager - Jose/Pep/Ancelloti etc), Charlton (favoured keeping tradition with a British manager plus really hates Mourinho) and Fergie (somewhere in between the other 2).

I think Ancelloti and Pep were approached but it was too late as they had already verbally agreed to go elsewhere. Jose was up for the job, Gill and Fergie both rated him but Charlton vetoed it.

Looking at the UK managers available at the time, Moyes probably was the best of an average bunch - the Scottish story and track record with youth also appealled to Fergie and Charlton to continue the line of Busby and Ferguson so he got the job!

Charlton should have never been given a vote let alone be able to put a veto on anything. I think this is what happened, the choice was between Mourinho and Moyes in the end and Charlton wouldn't have allowed Jose here.

 

[Xaviesta]

Here's what he had to say on the eye gouging incident:

"One of the most uncomfortable entries on an ever-lengthening charge sheet was Mourinho's gouging of the eye of Tito Vilanova, then Barcelona's assistant coach, in the 2011 Spanish Super Cup. "A United manager wouldn't do that," Charlton says. "Mourinho is a really good coach but that's as far as I would go really. He's the manager of Real Madrid and we expect to play them in the Champions League by the end of the season."

When it is put to him that it is difficult to imagine a United manager being allowed to get away with some of Mourinho's behaviour, Charlton says: "You are right. He pontificates too much for my liking. He's a good manager, though."

Whether it's because of his nationality, his lack of class or perhaps a mixture of the two; what's clear is he didn't really want him at United.

The conduct thing is understandable, but Ferguson whilst never poking an opponent in the eye wasn't great on the conduct front. The nationality part is nothing shy of ridiculous. Would you rather a winner who's a bit of a prick, or a gentleman who doesn't win manage your club? Surely Charlton would rather United win, than have a gentlemanly loser at the helm.

 

[Kraftwerker]

It was such a negligent appointment that you almost wonder if he was set up to be the fall guy 99% with a 1% of a miracle and bringing success.

Widely reported Fergie wanted and met with Pep first but he had already committed to Bayern.

I think they genuinely believed he could succeed, but he was also a convenient patsy if it went tits up.

He's made LvG's job 10 times easier in terms of scrutiny. Definitely the one huge positive from his reign.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

I think they genuinely believed he could succeed, but he was also a convenient patsy if it went tits up.

He's made LvG's job 10 times easier in terms of scrutiny. Definitely the one huge positive from his reign.

Aye, you're probably right. My previous post was likely heavily tainted with wishful thinking instead of the clear negligence at hand. That 6 year contract though....

 

[Eto'odinho]

For what it's worth Moyes was the chosen one in that his failures vividly underlined the magnitude of the tasks facing a manager at a club of this stature. At United, the pressure for success is both constant and relentless. Such pressure is shared by the various stakeholders with vested interest in the club, from the hugely influential financial side of the enterprise to the expectation fueled supporters and media which has to find something to write about to sell papers.

The frequency and relative ease United enjoyed success under SAF led to complacency and even ignorance among many punters. There were some who towards the end of SAF's era began to underplay the role that the great man played in running things particularly with reports of extensive delegation of responsibilities to his assistants. Some even began to take success for granted, I mean after all SAF is possibly the only man in history to repeatedly dominate both the domestic and continental scene with players like David May, Alan Smith, John O'Shea etc. All very fine players in their own accord but none that would be the subject of transfer interest from high end competitors in England and across Europe. SAF made success synonymous with the United brand, leading many to believe that his stewardship/leadership qualities were perhaps secondary to the structures being at United. His longevity made things looks easy and on auto pilot.

Having gone through the anguish of the Moyes era, I for one believe that the club has come out of it better. No longer shall anyone associated with United take anything for granted anymore. All it took was for nine rudderless months to knock us off our perch and bring down to earth. Success is immensely dependent on leadership.

So yes, Moyes was the chosen one. The one to remind us of the price for complacency and ignorance to an extent. For this I can't thank him enough [sniggers]

 

[sunama]

Moyes presided over our worst season in premier league history. Yes, he was definitely the chosen one.

Well, I dont think anybody can argue with that.

 

[crossy1686]

I think if Moyes wasn't anything other than the very last option, some serious questions need to be asked and answered by the people who appointed him.

And if he was our last option, surely Fergie could have been convinced to stay on for one more year instead?

 

[Roman Bellic]

No he wasn't.

On paper it was the perfect fairytale move, but in reality it was a complete disaster - it also highlighted the mediocre decisions Fergie made post-Ronaldo.

 

[sunama]

Moyes credentials were no where near good enough to even make a Top 10 list of potential coaches to take over us

I was staggered when I heard Moyes was taking over. It made no logical sense at all.
Even if the Glazers had hired 2 interns for a day to draw up a list of 20 top managers, from internet research, Moyes' name would not come up.
The Glazers also have to take some of the blame on this - they should've done their own basic research, which would've told them that they needed a bigger name to take over. I believe this was later corrected, when LVG was hired and Fergie was left out of the loop.

And with regards to the "patsy" theory. I dont buy this at all. When a company (or in this case a club), hires a person, they do so with the genuine belief that they are the best person available, for the job. They do not hire someone thinking that if things go wrong, we can blame it all on Moyes, who will be our fall-guy. This is not some pub team, this is a multi billion dollar business that cannot treated in this way.

You need to hire the best person, for the job role, from the applicants available - and Moyes was far from the best person.

My own theory is that Moyes got the job simply because he was Fergie's good mate and a good (not great) manager.

 

[Dominos]

From what went on at the time it was fairly clear Mourinho wanted us and we turned him down, rather than the other way around.

What went on exactly?

The way Mourinho was acting in our match against Real Madrid that you could see he wanted the job.

By being respectful? Hardly solid evidence, he is Fergie's friend and doesn't want to cross him.

Think some people are dodging the question here... I wanted to get a consensus on whether we believe Moyes was genuinely first choice or we got stuck with him because the big names turned us down? Based on the evidence in the OP.

The Mourinho story for example from Castles, is almost perfectly backed up by Paul Hayward's reasons on why he didn't end up being given the job - and those reasons weren't that we turned him down.

 

[Acole9]

Of course he wasn't the bloody chosen one. The club had managers above him on the shortlist but none of them were available.

 

[GimmeAKitKat]

Always thought Moyes was a sacrifice to be honest. Coming off SAF being in charge for an age, the next manager in was always going to be crucified about everything and compared to Fergie. So even if Mou/Pep/Ance had come in they might have had a hard time of it too and even if successful, probably retained that shadow over them for a few years.

As it is, I cant think of a time iv heard LvG properly compared or contrasted with Fergie in a detrimental way. With Moyes as a sacrificial buffer, LvG is free to play saviour, impose his own tactics and philosophy without people saying "that's different to SAF's way" because Moyes tried maintaining SAF's way to an extent and was wholly useless at it.

Im sure Moyes was never considered as more than a buffer. Maybe if Mou/Pep/Ance had taken over they might have stuck with one of them, but with proper big name managers not being available they went with a buffer year for Moyes, probably just hoping he would maintain top four and pave the ay for the next manager to come in and take United on.

 

[Boycott]

Fergie was endorsing Moyes years in advance.

I also am convinced that due to him being Scottish it helped his cause. Busby, Ferguson, Moyes. That was the dream. They bought into the romanticism of having another 20 year dynasty. The manager who worked hard and was PL proven. How long did we have to hear the line "imagine what Moyes could do if he had money" due to his perceived over-achievements at Everton on a shoe-string budget. This line is now being labelled to Tony Pulis.

The one interesting thing is if they had that dynasty plan with Moyes, Ryan Giggs would almost certainly never manage the club. His time would have gone when Moyes finished. For someone again who people endorsed, would they have cut short Moyes's reign to give into Old Trafford's favorite son?