Wayne Rooney | 2011/12 Performances

Discussion in 'Player Performances Forum' started by BaldwinLegend, Nov 5, 2011.

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  1. Jun 27, 2012

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Rooney has been disappointing for England for years given his ability but this whole routine of picking one player/manager out as a scapegoat everytime England do badly is silly. There are clear systemic issues that are at the heart of the problem rather than any one or two individuals. That doesn't mean the individuals are absolved of criticism. But it's as important to realise the bigger issue at hand.
  2. Jun 27, 2012

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    It's funny that what Capello's thinks is a dig at Rooney is actually just a statement that shows he isn't as good a manager as Alex Ferguson and failed to get the best from his players.
  3. Jun 27, 2012

    Chabon Full Member

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    Capello would do well to shut up, seeing as the only time he ever had England looking good was when Rooney carried the team. He's completely past it as a manager.
  4. Jun 27, 2012

    Vibhas New Member

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    I think it's a little tongue in cheek, but what his assistant said isn't. It remains to be seen whether the assistant said it on his own, or at Capello's behest.

    Really doesn't matter though. Rooney and every other player almost plays better for club rather than country, it's not surprising.
    The circumstances he's had at each tournament have been shocked since '04.

    Injuries / suspension.
  5. Jun 27, 2012

    Adebesi Full Member

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    I dont think Capello is past it as a manager at all, I just think England players are too spoilt to be managed by a disciplinarian, which is also probably a big part of the problem of why they are such a pile of wank most of the time. I think Capello would have whipped them into shape eventually, but it is not an easy thing to do to a national team, given how little time you spend with the squad.

    As for England, of course Rooney isnt the whole problem. He isnt even the biggest problem. Unfortunately, when you are the "talisman" of the team, you are held to a higher standard and expected to lift everyone else. And when you dont do it - when you are shit by your own standards, you get more shit for it. Its another back handed compliment, the same as the fact that United get more shit for things (diving / getting favourable decisions / "Fergie time") that are not really limited to us at all: when you are the best there is more focus on you and so if you get a decision go your way it is more noticeable than when it happens to others.

    United get a disproportionate amount of negative coverage at times because we are the best team in England (taken over a longer term time horizon).
    Rooney gets a disproportionate amount of negative coverage at times because he is the best player in the national side.

    And I think that is quite justified to be honest. Rooney should be taking more responsibility and lifting the team. He has been pretty rubbish for a long time for England, and while at times there have been mitigating circumstances, he does need to have a look at himself and work out if he wants to / is capable of doing something about it. He is in danger of completely wasting his talents as far as his international career goes. Not that many of us are too bothered about that, if he delivers for United. But most footballers do care about playing for their country: if he does he hasnt got too many more tournaments left in him before he starts to decline.
  6. Jun 27, 2012

    Striker10 "Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football

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    I think that rooney hasn't been great but he's surrounded by crap. Not one inventive midfielder. Gerrards good but compare him to what he's done for Liverpool down the years..it's night and day. There's no brilliant, consistant wingers to provide crosses. There's no tempo to England and when there is it lasts for a move before they revert to being crap for 5/10 or however many minutes. Rooney still scored two goals inspite of his performance, albiet one a penalty but he plays better for United then England because United are a far FAR better team...and Sir Alex is a far FAR better manager then any that have managed him for England.
  7. Jun 27, 2012

    Adebesi Full Member

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    I dont disagree with that but, as I said to a friend who made exactly the same point recently (in the context of a broader point he was making, which was "drop Rooney for England, he is shit for the national team so there is no point in even having him there", which needless to say I was arguing against vociferously) he shone for Everton. Yes it was a long time ago, yes a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then. But the fact remains: you can still look good when you are surrounded by dross. It can be done, and he has himself done it.

    So while I agree there is an element of what you are saying, it is not a good enough reason by itself.
  8. Jun 27, 2012

    The Taurean looks like a chipmunk

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    They are behind Rooney for this. With that midfield what did he expect? do the job of the midfielder also.
  9. Jun 27, 2012

    IL_DUCE Full Member

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    Obviously, One don't need not be a great manager to conclude that Rooney wasn't in optimal shape in the European Championship.

    One must however be a journalist, a rival supporter or an obsolete and bitter manager to focus on this kind of shit rather than provide constructive analysis imo.
  10. Jun 27, 2012

    Hectic account not controlled by niall

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    Does Capello think Ferguson speaks Scottish to our players?
  11. Jun 27, 2012

    Cina full member

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    Nah I doubt it, he knows Fergie is also fluent in English.
  12. Jun 27, 2012

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    I think what is a pity and could be one of those "what ifs" [if injuries or a bungled qualification campaign arise], is that once assembled we never were in a position to see Rooney, Welbeck and Young click when lining up in attack for England at the Euros.

    And at least despite all fo the frustrations Rooney was no involved in some on-field disciplinary controversy, one monkey at a time? I dunno, not everyone can be Klose when it comes to tournament football.
  13. Jun 27, 2012

    gaffs Full Member

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    Agree.
  14. Jun 27, 2012

    Adebesi Full Member

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    If we are talking about what ifs for England (as opposed to Rooney specifically) my biggest one is that Wilshere didnt make it. And to a certain extent, Cleverley did not play enough for United to be in contention. If the hype surrounding Clev is justified and he is to fulfil his potential, it is a shame those two were not available to form the basis of the midfield. Not that it would have won us this tournament by any means, but it would have set them up nicely for 2014.
  15. Jun 27, 2012

    gaffs Full Member

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    Rooney is world class, but his is some way off the very Elite players like Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Schweinsteiger who are such consistent performers.

    At he is best he is up there, but i dont feel like he does it nearly enough.
  16. Jun 27, 2012

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Is he behind Schweinsteiger?

    I dont watch enough foreign football to comment on that with much authority. I would have put him in the same category as him I think.
  17. Jun 27, 2012

    Rob Bowman Full Member

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    I would put him with Schweiny although Schweinsteiger is way below his normal standards right now. Khedira is carrying Germany's midfield at the Euros.
  18. Jun 27, 2012

    Homeomorphic New Member

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    Oh deary me.
  19. Jun 27, 2012

    Revan Assumptionman

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    It could be. Italians are known to have problems learning another languages, so Capello can think that this is the standard.
  20. Jun 27, 2012

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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    I think the main problem for him was that while the midfield may not have been great and it may not have been the best to keep the ball and creat chances for him, Rooney's problems were equally of his own doing. Yes, he didn't have an impressive midfield behind him on Sunday, but his touch was awful whenever he was on the ball and he seemed incapable of actually taking it past players. That's down to him, not the others in the team, if you get what I'm saying.
  21. Jun 27, 2012

    DevilRed Full Member

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    To be fair, his touch has been pretty awful for the last few weeks of the season too. Very on and off. For some reason he was giving away the ball alot too and making all the wrong passes/decisions. Funny season he has had considering his goal return, but for me he hasn't been in top form at all.
  22. Jun 27, 2012

    finneh Full Member

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    I never said surpassing. I said Ronaldo has the potential to reach a similar level and to be fair I think everyone would agree if it weren't for Messi.

    Just think that he'd have been voted the best player on the planet for 3 years and be a cert for a 4th title this year.

    It's debatable whether those two are definitely a tier below the likes of Zidane.

    It might be the case that when Iniesta is at his absolute best, he doesn't seem to look on a different planet to everyone else on the pitch, because the likes of Xavi (for both Spain/Barce) and Messi always look incredible as well. I watch most of the important games that Barcelona/Spain feature in so have seen him at his majestic best, but he doesn't seem to stand out as much as when I've seen Rooney at his rare, absolute best.

    As I say it could be that when I've seen Iniesta is at his best, usually Xavi/Messi are also firing, so he stands out less.
  23. Jun 27, 2012

    Adebesi Full Member

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    What you said is

    That to me means surpassing. Fair enough, who knows what'll happen in the future. Can't see it happening but its not impossible.
  24. Jun 28, 2012

    Vibhas New Member

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    What a fancy way of saying that he has the potential to be the 2nd BPITW
  25. Jun 28, 2012

    finneh Full Member

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    It's not a fancy way of saying that at all... He already is the second best player in the world... Comfortably.
  26. Jun 28, 2012

    SecondFig Full Member

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    That's not really what he said though, is it.
  27. Jun 28, 2012

    KingEric7 Stupid Conspiracy Enthusiast Wanker

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    I'm going to interpret that as "look, I know I was an absolute bag of shite as England manager, but it's only 'cos Rooney only plays well for United that it panned out as it did."
  28. Jun 28, 2012

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Definitely.
  29. Jul 1, 2012

    204Red Full Member

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    I agree

    If not for TWO blown out knees the Original Ronaldo would be in a 3 way debate with Pele and Maradona for the title of "The Greatest". Prior to that first knee injury Thin(er) Ronaldo had Drogba's power and Messi's silky skills all in one package. I have never seen a big man with such nimble feet.

    Even when he came back from injury (as Fat Ronaldo) he still won a world cup and scored plenty of goals in La Liga when Spanish football was more than just a two team league.

    I think the world of Ronnie... but he's not at Fat Ronaldo's level yet

    And since this is a thread about Rooney, I finish by saying that I think the gap between him and Ronnie is continuing to grow. Ronnie stood up against the Dutch and the Czechs... he didn't have his best game against Spain, but he wasn't Rooney level awful either.
  30. Jul 3, 2012

    Nucks Cuckoo

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    Rooney probably doesn't perform for England the way he does for United, because United is a better squad top to bottom, with more depth and the team is designed very much around him.

    In short, he gets better service and he has better players around him.

    In other news, the Titanic Sank! ;)
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