27 year old kid? Anyway a consistent run of games and change of scenery can do wonders so who knows.
We actually don't need a midfielder! | Post your starting XI and bench with potential positions you think we'll sign! CHECK OP!
- Thread starter Walters_19_MuFc
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I'm 57 in a few days, compared to me he's a kid
I'm disappointed with your response because I don't think you are disagree here. I think you are just ignoring what I wrote because I expect you to come out with more detail or explanation why you disagree with what I wrote. What I wrote seems to counterpunching your statement.
At least the positive thing is when you are run out idea/word, you are willing to move on rather than drag it too long in pointless way by repeating things & make unrealistic comparison, unlike the other guy.
I bet I don´t give a shit.
Hence why I said post starting XI and bench.
You can't convince everybody even when your reasoning seems like the most logical. Trust me I'm neither out of words nor ideas - just seems futile harping on about the same thing. Cheers and have a good day.
I don't think I stuck to the OP's exact instructions in the first post I made so here goes.
Subs: Romero, Bailly, Williams, Fred, McTominay, Greenwood, Cavani
Sold - Jones, Rojo, Lingard, Pereira, Alexis and Smalling.
Subs: Romero, Bailly, Williams, Fred, McTominay, Greenwood, Cavani
Sold - Jones, Rojo, Lingard, Pereira, Alexis and Smalling.
And why is that? Have I been talking to wall all this time?
You can't convince everybody even when your reasoning seems like the most logical. Trust me I'm neither out of words nor ideas - just seems futile harping on about the same thing. Cheers and have a good day.
My ideal summer would be:
Incomings:
Sancho - £100m
Grealish - £40m
Bellingham - £30m
Ighalo - £15m
Zakaria Or K.Phillips £45m or £25-30m
Total spend:
Between £215/230m
Outgoings:
Pogba - £110m
Smalling - £20m
Sanchez - £10m (or we simply take a hit and release him on a free)
Rojo - £15-20m
Lingard - £20m
Jones - £10m
Gomes - Free / Contract issue
Total:
Between £175 - £190m
GK:
Romero/Henderson/De Gea
FB:
Shaw/Williams/AWB/Dalot
CB:
Tuanzebe/Maguire/Bailly/Lindelof
CM:
Fred/McTom/Matic/Zakaria or Phillips/Periera
AM:
Fernandes/Grealish/Mata
Wide Forwards:
James/Sancho/Rashford/Greenwood/Chong
ST:
Martial/Ighalo
Could be a few tricky situations next season:
1) Goalkeepers
Henderson will want to play and may not want another loan. De Gea has been world class for us so it'd still expect him to be No1. Henderson will have Euro 2021 on his mind now so will want to play and make a mark for a place. I'd personally be ok IF De Gea pushed for a move to sell him and promoting Henderson, but it will be a very busy transfer window so wouldnt force it.
2) Current loans dont go permanent.
Smalling/Sanchez and Rojo on loans. They have shown over time they dont offer us much and are surplus here, would be a disaster and seriously hamper our incomings if we couldnt move them on permanently,
3) Pogba. Why always Pogba
Its seriously time for him to go, i'd much rather we didnt see his inflated ego any longer. But he's a tricky one to sell. Worth more in merchandising than value on the pitch, only a limited number of clubs would entertain having him. He wants to go. Selling him allows us to improve the playing squad, thats reason enough for me
Its going to be an interesting window, but i feel our outgoings are going to be just as important.
Id expect us to be active and proactive and make some bold decisions, such as the Pogba one
Incomings:
Sancho - £100m
Grealish - £40m
Bellingham - £30m
Ighalo - £15m
Zakaria Or K.Phillips £45m or £25-30m
Total spend:
Between £215/230m
Outgoings:
Pogba - £110m
Smalling - £20m
Sanchez - £10m (or we simply take a hit and release him on a free)
Rojo - £15-20m
Lingard - £20m
Jones - £10m
Gomes - Free / Contract issue
Total:
Between £175 - £190m
GK:
Romero/Henderson/De Gea
FB:
Shaw/Williams/AWB/Dalot
CB:
Tuanzebe/Maguire/Bailly/Lindelof
CM:
Fred/McTom/Matic/Zakaria or Phillips/Periera
AM:
Fernandes/Grealish/Mata
Wide Forwards:
James/Sancho/Rashford/Greenwood/Chong
ST:
Martial/Ighalo
Could be a few tricky situations next season:
1) Goalkeepers
Henderson will want to play and may not want another loan. De Gea has been world class for us so it'd still expect him to be No1. Henderson will have Euro 2021 on his mind now so will want to play and make a mark for a place. I'd personally be ok IF De Gea pushed for a move to sell him and promoting Henderson, but it will be a very busy transfer window so wouldnt force it.
2) Current loans dont go permanent.
Smalling/Sanchez and Rojo on loans. They have shown over time they dont offer us much and are surplus here, would be a disaster and seriously hamper our incomings if we couldnt move them on permanently,
3) Pogba. Why always Pogba
Its seriously time for him to go, i'd much rather we didnt see his inflated ego any longer. But he's a tricky one to sell. Worth more in merchandising than value on the pitch, only a limited number of clubs would entertain having him. He wants to go. Selling him allows us to improve the playing squad, thats reason enough for me
Its going to be an interesting window, but i feel our outgoings are going to be just as important.
Id expect us to be active and proactive and make some bold decisions, such as the Pogba one
You never do. You would have read my post and having a good proper discussion if you gave a shit to begin with.
Yes, the wages is obviously a factor. I believe Lingard is on 75k a week?
Anyhow, knowing that a club like Tottenham is asking the state for economical support these days, there might not be much money in the marked. Our best chance to getting rid of players, is many including them in exchange deals, e.g. Lingard to Dortmund as part of the Sancho deal (replacement for outgoing Götze) or Jones to Villa.
I think it's looking more likely that Pogba stays a year all things considered at this point, with everything going on. So with that in mind, I dont think we sign anyone in midfield. The focus will be on Sancho, and making Ighalo permanent, selling off some unnecessary players, etc.
Starting 11
Romero, Williams, Lindelof, Matic, James, Ighalo, Greenwood
Rounding off 2nd 11: Dalot, Tuanzebe, Fred, Mata
Questionables: Grant (retired?), Henderson (loan?), CB Smalling (sold?), jones (sold?), Rojo (sold?), Laird (loan?), Garner (loan?), Gomes (loan?), Pereira (sold?), Lingard (sold?), Chong (loan?), Sanchez (loan/sold?)
Not all the questionable will leave, but probably 3-4 will stay to complete the squad. Have a core 22 who play plenty though in terms of starters and their backups.
If Pogba goes, likelihood is Fred starts, but think we'd look to replace that 2and creative midfielder that we'd lose (Grealish?). Pogba stays, no midfield signings.
Starting 11
Rashford Martial Sancho
Pogba McTominay Bruno
Shaw Maguire Bailly AWB
DDG
SubsPogba McTominay Bruno
Shaw Maguire Bailly AWB
DDG
Romero, Williams, Lindelof, Matic, James, Ighalo, Greenwood
Rounding off 2nd 11: Dalot, Tuanzebe, Fred, Mata
Questionables: Grant (retired?), Henderson (loan?), CB Smalling (sold?), jones (sold?), Rojo (sold?), Laird (loan?), Garner (loan?), Gomes (loan?), Pereira (sold?), Lingard (sold?), Chong (loan?), Sanchez (loan/sold?)
Not all the questionable will leave, but probably 3-4 will stay to complete the squad. Have a core 22 who play plenty though in terms of starters and their backups.
If Pogba goes, likelihood is Fred starts, but think we'd look to replace that 2and creative midfielder that we'd lose (Grealish?). Pogba stays, no midfield signings.
Stick Fred in at left-back instead of Shaw and that's a mighty fine team, good enough to knock Liverpool off their perch if they ever get on it.
I'll pretend I haven't seen Pogba's name!
Everything depends on Pogba, as at this moment I am in the position that we should sell him, but despite that, I will equate for the two scenarios.
With Pogba:
If Pogba stays, we should do one of the following: three consider putting more effort into converting McTominay into a Defensive Midfielder, improving his passing to allow Pogba push up the pitch; play Pogba deeper in a Fabregas/Drinkwater role and allow Mctominay to harass defenders in the mould of Kante at Leicester; or sign another Defensive Midfielder, one with the skills that would allow him to recycle possession effectively whilst having the defensive skills to protect the defence.
Of those options, I would give Mctominay the opportunity to grow into that role.It would further enhance his game and even if Pogba does leave after, it would make him a much more complete midfielder. It would also be cheap and keep everyone happy. We would use Fred to deputise Pogba and Matic as cover for Mctominay. In addition, we would have more money to spend in attack, which can be used on Sancho/Grealish or whoever we want. We would even have the option of experimenting on the diamond, personally if we did this, I would like it to be wide, so that our full backs would not have too much responsibility in attack.
For example, on paper, the treble team was a flat 442, but if you actually look at their positions, the amount of time beckham and giggs came central, the willingness of scholes to push ahead of keane and keane himself sitting and spraying forward passes,it was a wide diamond. If we signed Grealish, we could operate with something similar, Pogba and Grealish as wide midfielders, Mctominay deep, Bruno advanced.
Without Pogba:
If we sell Pogba: We can sign a box to box midfielder that can replace him like for like and then improve Mctominay as a Defensive Midfielder or we can sign a Defensive Midfielder that can recycle possession and play either Fred/Mctominay as box to box/ball winning midfielders.
In this case, I would prefer to sign a defensive midfielder who already has the composure and passing ability to recycle possession and protect the defence. There are not many out there, but with the money we get from Pogba, we would have more than enough to look for and sign this player. This would also give Fred a chance to compete with Mctominay and see who is better in the box to box/ ball winner role.
With Pogba:
If Pogba stays, we should do one of the following: three consider putting more effort into converting McTominay into a Defensive Midfielder, improving his passing to allow Pogba push up the pitch; play Pogba deeper in a Fabregas/Drinkwater role and allow Mctominay to harass defenders in the mould of Kante at Leicester; or sign another Defensive Midfielder, one with the skills that would allow him to recycle possession effectively whilst having the defensive skills to protect the defence.
Of those options, I would give Mctominay the opportunity to grow into that role.It would further enhance his game and even if Pogba does leave after, it would make him a much more complete midfielder. It would also be cheap and keep everyone happy. We would use Fred to deputise Pogba and Matic as cover for Mctominay. In addition, we would have more money to spend in attack, which can be used on Sancho/Grealish or whoever we want. We would even have the option of experimenting on the diamond, personally if we did this, I would like it to be wide, so that our full backs would not have too much responsibility in attack.
For example, on paper, the treble team was a flat 442, but if you actually look at their positions, the amount of time beckham and giggs came central, the willingness of scholes to push ahead of keane and keane himself sitting and spraying forward passes,it was a wide diamond. If we signed Grealish, we could operate with something similar, Pogba and Grealish as wide midfielders, Mctominay deep, Bruno advanced.
Without Pogba:
If we sell Pogba: We can sign a box to box midfielder that can replace him like for like and then improve Mctominay as a Defensive Midfielder or we can sign a Defensive Midfielder that can recycle possession and play either Fred/Mctominay as box to box/ball winning midfielders.
In this case, I would prefer to sign a defensive midfielder who already has the composure and passing ability to recycle possession and protect the defence. There are not many out there, but with the money we get from Pogba, we would have more than enough to look for and sign this player. This would also give Fred a chance to compete with Mctominay and see who is better in the box to box/ ball winner role.
Can't see Dortmund wanting Lingard but Smalling to Roma as part weight for Under, Zaniolo or Pellegrini or Jones or Lingard to a prem side like Villa as you say as a third or quarter of the Grealish fee (or to Norwich as half or most of the Buendia or Puuki if we can't get Ighalo, or West Ham as a third of the fee for Haller or Rice) or even Pereira to a Portuguese, Spanish or Italian side could be a useful idea.
Fred at LB? Is there some white text i'm missing?
Awful suggestion.
Our best midfielder to be played out of position? Mega joke
Regardless of whether Pogba stays or not, we need to sign a competent DM.
As it stand, Matic is our only DM and as we know he isn't going to be around forever. Fred and McTominey, while they both play deeper they aren't really natural DM's, both more in the ilk of box to box or a traditional DM.
Pogba simply cannot play DM, he's a liability there. He has been tried there and frankly he's not equipped to be there. He would be much more useful further up the pitch.
I've always said we need better quality throughout the squad so we need to sign a DM before Matic leaves.
For Example, if we signed K.Phillips from Leeds we'd have:
Matic/Phillips for DM, McTom/Fred for CM, Fernandes/Pogba for AM
Not a bad set of options for rotation/squad depth.
I'm all for Pogba leaving personally, think his stint here has been a bit of a let down and the media hype around him is so big its draining. A failed signing.
Pogba out, Grealish and Phillips in would be immense for me
No white text needed, he started his career at left-back. he's got all the tools to play there and would be an instant upgrade on Shaw, and it was in reply to a poster who couldn't find a place in their 18 man squad for a player who was probably our best player for the last 4/5 months, something you obviously agree on.
So assuming Pogba stays and we sign only a DM for midfield, what would be your midfield 3?
How good is Kalvin Phillips. I've heard a lot but I haven't seen him play
I think your getting a bit too excited about Fred.Yeah,he’s improved recently but he’s still nowhere near being a top class operator in the middle of the park.Hes still far too sloppy on the ball,and he still gets brushed off Possesion far too easily...Let’s not hang our hopes on Fred,we definitely need more quality than what he can offer.
I wouldn't say I'm getting excited, as such. I just think based on the season both he and McTominay have had to date, I can see Ole starting with at least one of them next season and rightly so too. Whether you like it or not, Fred has arguably been our best player this season, and has shown vast improvement this season.
Freds our best midfielder by some while, shipping him out of position makes no sense.
If you want to upgrade Shaw, fine, but sign an actual LB for that.
Freds a central midfielder. End of
Pogba also lacks class in the middle of the park, loses possession and gets outworked by the opposition.
Just making a point that pogba is held in high regard and Fred isnt, wheres as they both have flaws. Freds an easier target to bash i guess though
Read what I posted. Personally i'd have Fred in midfield before Pogba.
Best player??!Come on mate,that’s just a bit too much!!Rashford,Martial,Maguire,Wan Bissaka,Mctominay,perhaps even Greenwood have had better seasons than him.My problem with Fred is that he’s not very good at anything.Hes not a great creative spark who can create opportunities for others.....he’s not a driving force from midfield,someone who can carry the ball from box to box....he’s not a top class destroyer in the middle of the park who can effectively shield our back 4....and he’s certainly not a deep lying playmaker who can set the tempo of a game....
Between him and Mctominay,I would pick Mctominay every day of the week....I can see Mctominay being a good squad player at United who can play 25-30 games a season....
But Pogba more than makes up for all these obvious flaws because of his top class creativity.I”m not a huge fan of the guy...I”ve become very irritated with his attitude over the years and I wouldn’t lose any sleep if he leaves at the end of the season.But even I have to admit that he’s got top class quality on the ball.His ability to play the killer pass,play the long ball,unlock a defence and run with the ball is there for everybody to see.Honestly Freds nowhere near being in the same league as Pogba...
Martial
Rashford Fernandes Sancho
Fred McTominay
Grimaldo Maguire Tuanzebe AWB
De Gea
Subs
Romero
Williams
Lindelof
Matic
James
Ighalo
Sold
Jones for any amount
Smalling for 15m minimum
Shaw for 15m minimum
Pogba 100m minimum
Rashford Fernandes Sancho
Fred McTominay
Grimaldo Maguire Tuanzebe AWB
De Gea
Subs
Romero
Williams
Lindelof
Matic
James
Ighalo
Sold
Jones for any amount
Smalling for 15m minimum
Shaw for 15m minimum
Pogba 100m minimum
Maybe you need to watch this season again. He has been one of the best this season. He is the driving force in midfield carrying the ball from box to box. He has been our engine and has hardly put a foot wrong.
—————-Henderson
————Bailly——Maguire
AWB——————————Shaw
————-McT———Fred
—————-Fernandes
Sancho———————-Rashford
——————Martial
Romero
Lindelof
Williams
Matić
James
Greenwood
Ighalo
Out
De Gea
Pogba
In
Sancho
Bellingham (loan out)
Ighalo
————Bailly——Maguire
AWB——————————Shaw
————-McT———Fred
—————-Fernandes
Sancho———————-Rashford
——————Martial
Romero
Lindelof
Williams
Matić
James
Greenwood
Ighalo
Out
De Gea
Pogba
In
Sancho
Bellingham (loan out)
Ighalo
Last edited:
On what planet does Woodward/Judge complete that many transfers in one summer?
One plays with 100% workrate and the other is Pogba. Big difference.
No debate for me who is more worthy and does a better job in our team
it's unlikely, hence the wording "my ideal summer"
We need to be bold and get it done
Martial/Ighalo
Rash/DJ - Bruno/Mata - Sancho/Mason
Zakaria/Matic - McTominay/Fred
Shaw/Williams - Maguire/Tuanzebe -Lindelof/Bailly - Wan-Bissaka/Dalot
De Gea/Romero
Would be nice if we kept Pogba, but I dont see it. Zakaria is just a type. Could be Partey too. But someone in this mould.
Sancho and Ighalo will do it if Pogba stays. If not a replacement should be signed.
Adding Belingham will be a dream.
Obviously you want someone better than Lingard and Pereira to replace Bruno, and I'd love Grealish, but if the club decides against this (f.e. the fee would be too high) it is totally understandable.
So, Sancho, Ighalo (and in a dream scenario Jude) IN. If Pogba stays.
Rojo, Jones, Smalling (or at least two of them) and one of Pereira/Lingard (or both if Grealish comes) should be sold. And Dalot, who is bang average and injury-prone, Ethan Laird is a much better prospect, though he also has issues with injuries.
Adding Belingham will be a dream.
Obviously you want someone better than Lingard and Pereira to replace Bruno, and I'd love Grealish, but if the club decides against this (f.e. the fee would be too high) it is totally understandable.
So, Sancho, Ighalo (and in a dream scenario Jude) IN. If Pogba stays.
Rojo, Jones, Smalling (or at least two of them) and one of Pereira/Lingard (or both if Grealish comes) should be sold. And Dalot, who is bang average and injury-prone, Ethan Laird is a much better prospect, though he also has issues with injuries.
The most important element first: Pogba wants to leave and should leave. Obvious that he does not want to be here, and the things Raiola has said over the last months has been on PP behalf (acting as the bad guy to get his player a move). Don't see a point in hard balling this as it would likely detract potential star players from coming here. Especially players from France. Despite this, it should be said that on his day or is in the right situation, he is almost unplayable and our best player. Sadly, the combination of our status and ability as a team and PPs abilities have so far shown to be a mismatch. Get what we can (+ £100m) from either Juventus or Real Madrid.
Our current two starting midfielders in Fred and McT are not good enough on the ball as a pair in games where we are playing against a deep sitting team. They are both, arguably, better as disruptive players, i.e. when the team is not on the ball. Matic can perform somewhat in both situations, but should not play many games over a short period based on the last few seasons and his sudden drop in form after an intensive schedule.
Dependent on what is available on the market, I would consider buying two midfielders that are more comfortable on the ball.
The options we should look at are Partey, Tonali, Zakaria and Phillips. In my opinion, these four are better players than our current options for central or defensive midfielders, especially in games where we play against a deep sitting team.
1. Partey is the safest and best option. Only question should be if he is willing to join us. If he is, then we should activate his clause.
2. Tonali is the best passer (his range and ability to spot opportunities from deep is impressive), and can operate in a number of midfield roles.
3. Zakaria is the most dynamic player(difficult to evaluate non-holding type of midfielders in the Bundesliga due to how intensive and gung-hoo the league has been the last two seasons). Potential high upside, but also some uncertainty on how he would suit the league.
4. Phillips is extremely good at playing through the first line of pressing, but if Leeds gets promoted he will stay.
If we sell PP, we should aim to get two midfielders. Partey should be on top of that list together with Tonali.
The obvious, at least to me, main target for this summer should be Sancho. buying him would also mean that there is less pressure on our midfielders to act as creative players, but they should still be able to transition the ball into areas where Bruno and hopefully Sancho operates.
Dependent on money spent and available we should also consider improving our left-back (Telles or Grimaldo?) and central defender (Ake).
Outgoings:
1. Sanchez. Pay him off if needed.
2. Lingard. Same.
3. Jones. £10m?
4. PP. +£100m.
5. Pereira. £10m?
6. Smalling. £20m to Roma.
(DDG could be sold, dependent on Henderson and what we can get for him.)
In:
1. Sancho. + £100m
2. Partey. £40m clause. (Phillips)
3. Tonali. Brescia going down to Serie B.(Zakaria)
LB(Grimaldo/Telles), CB(Ake) and striker(Ighalo?) and some performing championship player(Eze or Benrahma) should be dependent on what we can afford and availability/cost of the player.
Starting 11(Additional potential changes):
Our current two starting midfielders in Fred and McT are not good enough on the ball as a pair in games where we are playing against a deep sitting team. They are both, arguably, better as disruptive players, i.e. when the team is not on the ball. Matic can perform somewhat in both situations, but should not play many games over a short period based on the last few seasons and his sudden drop in form after an intensive schedule.
Dependent on what is available on the market, I would consider buying two midfielders that are more comfortable on the ball.
The options we should look at are Partey, Tonali, Zakaria and Phillips. In my opinion, these four are better players than our current options for central or defensive midfielders, especially in games where we play against a deep sitting team.
1. Partey is the safest and best option. Only question should be if he is willing to join us. If he is, then we should activate his clause.
2. Tonali is the best passer (his range and ability to spot opportunities from deep is impressive), and can operate in a number of midfield roles.
3. Zakaria is the most dynamic player(difficult to evaluate non-holding type of midfielders in the Bundesliga due to how intensive and gung-hoo the league has been the last two seasons). Potential high upside, but also some uncertainty on how he would suit the league.
4. Phillips is extremely good at playing through the first line of pressing, but if Leeds gets promoted he will stay.
If we sell PP, we should aim to get two midfielders. Partey should be on top of that list together with Tonali.
The obvious, at least to me, main target for this summer should be Sancho. buying him would also mean that there is less pressure on our midfielders to act as creative players, but they should still be able to transition the ball into areas where Bruno and hopefully Sancho operates.
Dependent on money spent and available we should also consider improving our left-back (Telles or Grimaldo?) and central defender (Ake).
Outgoings:
1. Sanchez. Pay him off if needed.
2. Lingard. Same.
3. Jones. £10m?
4. PP. +£100m.
5. Pereira. £10m?
6. Smalling. £20m to Roma.
(DDG could be sold, dependent on Henderson and what we can get for him.)
In:
1. Sancho. + £100m
2. Partey. £40m clause. (Phillips)
3. Tonali. Brescia going down to Serie B.(Zakaria)
LB(Grimaldo/Telles), CB(Ake) and striker(Ighalo?) and some performing championship player(Eze or Benrahma) should be dependent on what we can afford and availability/cost of the player.
Starting 11(Additional potential changes):
DDG (Henderson)
AWB - Maguire - Lindelof(Ake) - Shaw(Telles/Grimaldo)
Tonali - Partey
Sancho - Bruno - Rashford
Martial
AWB - Maguire - Lindelof(Ake) - Shaw(Telles/Grimaldo)
Tonali - Partey
Sancho - Bruno - Rashford
Martial
If your talking about “work rate”,then yes,Fred and Mctominay work harder for the team.But would I pick Fred ahead of a fully fit Pogba?definitely not..,Even when Pogba plays poorly he invariably creates 2-3 good chances for the strikers...
Seems like some FIFA bs.
We don't need two holding midfielders or box-to-box midfielders if Pogba goes. Fred-New Signing should be a starting option. Then we have McT and Matic. Whether it'd be Partey or someone else I don't know.
It'd be better to buy a versatile attacking midfielder then. Someone like Grealish or Soler.
My personal preference if Pogba is sold is Fabian Ruiz.
Have you seen them play? Are they not, at least based on their abilities, better than our current options? Especially on the ball?
Fred, McT and Matic are not good enough when the team is trying to control the game or transitioning the ball into the final third. If we had fullbacks that could operate as playmakers like TTA or Kimmich, attacking players able to create or a well functioning passing pattern and movement, then the need for better ball-playing midfielders would not be as prominent. We do not.