We are 4th. Edit: Top of the League!

Moston Red

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I don't see anyone jumping around about being 4th. I don't see posters getting the bunting out or suggesting it's worthy of celebration.

The simple point is that things aren't as bad as the naysayers are making out. The world isn't ending, we're not "embarrassing" or a "disgrace". We're doing ok, and despite a slow start to the season, we're still within touching distance of the top of the table.
The first half of todays game was embarrassing and disgraceful. We turned it around with subs. We cant do that every game.
 

svn

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I mean, the OP created a thread stating "We are 4th" :lol:

Agree with you on the other points. I think the frustration is mostly down to knowing we have a decent squad but still playing so inconsistently. And knowing a better manager would be able to get more out of them.
Oh, it's definitely frustrating that we're so hot and cold. But the only thing disgraceful and embarrassing is this forum. It's like a bunch of 7 year olds who have been told they can't have what they want. Ridiculous hyperbole, exaggerations, the lot. It's become a horrible, toxic environment over the last 8 years.
 
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I don't see anyone jumping around about being 4th.
This thread is titled “We are 4th”. Thread poster thinks that’s some kind of “stick that your cake hole” and you wonder why the forum is toxic?
We have 2nd most expensive squad in the league.
Season is looking better for sure, and the Ole out thread is stupidly active today but the toxicity also comes from people trying to shout down any doubters with daft threads like this. Or sammskys clusterfeck “masterclass” thread.
It creates more ammunition for people to hit back if we lose in Germany and to shitty next week.

The forum would be much better with more calmness and less stupid hyperbole from all. As the poster above me mentions, we’re 4th yes, 2 points off top but we’re also just 2 points off 10th.
Posters should try better to see each others point of view and find more common ground.
 

troylocker

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The funny thing is that in the «predict top 6«- thread not a lot have us top 3, and the ones whining the most about appreciating the current league position are the ones predicting us outside top 6. Double standards!

I don’t think any Man United fans are happy with being «just» top 4 in the long run, but if you were expecting us to top the league after last season and this summers transfer window, you do not have a close relationship with reality.
If you are complaining on the league position now, after predicting us outside top 4, you do have an agenda and should take a serious look in the mirror. Maybe you need to ask yourself: Are you supporting the right club and are you doing it right?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/predict-the-top-6-20-21-in-order.456505/page-3#post-26020837
 
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svn

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This thread is titled “We are 4th”. Thread poster thinks that’s some kind of “stick that your cake hole” and you wonder why the forum is toxic?
I actually agree with a lot of your post, but not this.

I'm not wondering why the forum has become so toxic. I already know it's because a vast majority of posters are spoiled brats, who spend most of thier free time playing FIFA and get more excited about transfer windows than they do about match days. They are idiots who have no idea what they're talking about or how the real world works.
 
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I actually agree with a lot of your post, but not this.

I'm not wondering why the forum has become so toxic. I already know it's because a vast majority of posters are spoiled brats, who spend most of thier free time playing FIFA and get more excited about transfer windows than they do about match days. They are idiots who have no idea what they're talking about or how the real world works.
We’ll have to disagree there, I think the lack of finding common ground is the biggest issue, but we’re all entitled to our opinions.
 

MattofManchester

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Honestly, 4th is not something to be celebrated. We finished 3rd last season and given how open this year is, we should be pushing higher.
It's also only 10 games in.

Its okay to be happy over a win, but for the love of God, can the standards of this fan base stop dropping?

4th after 10 games doesn't mean too much. What matters is how we're performing, because that gives us our long term picture.

Come 30 games in and we're sitting 4th, 5 or so points of 1st,then I suppose you can be celebrating that.
Naturally, you won't, as we'll then be considered title contenders.

Its all relative.
 

justsomebloke

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Inconsistency. Well, depending on how Leicester does tomorrow, there are now either 3 or 4 teams in the PL who have been more consistent than us this season. None of them by a larger margin than what could be overcome by the end of the next round. If you look at the whole period from the end of the January transfer window, there is only one team - Liverpool - who has been more consistent than us. In addition to which we currently co-lead a CL group which is a tough as any we've been in in living memory. So please, let's drop this nonsense about inconsistency. In terms of results, we are not a team marred by an unusual level of inconsistency.

Also, again you get the voices arguing that today's performance shows what a badly coached team we are, and that we're only being kept afloat by Bruno's magic. But that's not how football works. Teams that are badly coached, badly organised and/or lack an effective system don't play brilliantly when they use great players, and awfully when they use less good players. They underperform even when they use brilliant players. Like Real Madrid did in their galactico period, and like Argentina and Germany did at the last world cup. And like Chelsea did in Mourinho's last season. No one, not even Messi, and certainly not Bruno Fernandes, turns a team lacking those things into winning teams. The kind of teams that does play brilliantly when they use great players, and awfully when they use less good players, are teams who lack the depth of quality in their squad to sustain their system when their best players aren't on the field. If today shows anything, it's that exactly that is the case with Manchester United. The kind of football we play with our best XI, which is the kind of football we should be playing, simply can't be delivered if certain key pieces are missing. That's not a reflection of how good Bruno and Rashford are, it's a reflection of the fact we lack other players who are capable of delivering roughly the same function that they have in the system. If the system was wrong, then it would not work with them in the lineup either.

This is the same for everyone. How good were Manchester City when they had no healthy strikers, or missed their best central defenders? Is that because they were badly coached, or because Guardiolas system wasn't good enough? Of course not.

We specifically do not have anyone capable of filling Bruno's function when he's not playing. The hope was that'd be van de Beek, but the returns today weren't confidence-inspiring.

The problem is not coaching or system, the problem is depth of quality in the squad, especially up front. Which we were
all complaining loudly about not that many weeks ago, as the transfer window ended. So how come people have suddenly forgotten that, and now expect results and performance as if we had the top squad nobody thought we had in October?
 
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eire-red

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We would be joint top of the league with Chelsea if we won our game in hand against Burnley (of course Spurs and Liverpool would still need to play). We've been steadily creeping up the table after our terrible start. Things aren't great, the Arsenal result still stings, but the doom and gloom that has been portrayed is definitely OTT.

Still, it's funny how Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool etc are getting plaudits for how they're coping with the season so far, when we're right behind them. If we can put together a winning streak, we can really make a push for the top of the table. December feels like a defining month for us. We have the quality in the squad to put a proper run together. I'm just hoping we can get a result against RB Leipzig to give us a springboard for the rest of December.
 

justsomebloke

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Honestly, 4th is not something to be celebrated. We finished 3rd last season and given how open this year is, we should be pushing higher.
It's also only 10 games in.

Its okay to be happy over a win, but for the love of God, can the standards of this fan base stop dropping?

4th after 10 games doesn't mean too much. What matters is how we're performing, because that gives us our long term picture.

Come 30 games in and we're sitting 4th, 5 or so points of 1st,then I suppose you can be celebrating that.
Naturally, you won't, as we'll then be considered title contenders.

Its all relative.
Yeah. Exactly. It's ten games in.

How we're performing is actually that we're better than our league position, because we have one less game played than 16 of the other teams. In any case, surely the main point here is that after ten rounds, only a small margin separates us from the top of the table.

But as you say, it's the end result that matters.

As a fan base, we have been spoilt by decades of success, to the point where many people seem to think you can automatically expect title challenges, and anything else is just a form of cowardice or something. Personally I think it pays to remember that expectation must always start from the point you are currently at. And then to think in stages.
We started really bad, but have then climbed to what is really a pretty good place to be in. We now project to get a number of points (72) that are usually sufficient for a top four spot. Now let's see if they can raise that to 80, which is what the current league leaders have. Two more wins, and that's actually where we are (or 79 at least).
 

stu_1992

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Some amount of moaners in here. Of course no one is delighted with 4th place and sees that as a reason to celebrate by itself. Clearly the point of the thread is show that we're nowhere near as bad as the media, rival fans and some of our own support makes us out to be. If we were, we'd be be nowhere near the champions league places. We had a bad start, but our form is trending upwards. Win our game in hand and we'll be at worst 2 points behind 1st place.
 

justsomebloke

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So, are you happy? Are you positive this means we will end Top4 or even challenge for the title with a VanDick-less Liverpool and City looking human-normal? I am not. Ole's Utd is inconsisent. Unpredictable.

That's the problem with Ole. We could lose the next PL match and be knocked out of the UCL by Leipzig.

Inconsisent. Unpredictable.
No. They are not. Look at the facts, for christ's sake. We have a better - and hence more consistently good - record than all but 3 or 4 teams in the Premier League. Those that are ahead of us, are so by a very small margin. And we have the second best record in the Premier League since Bruno Fernandes arrived. We are less inconsistent than almost everyone else. Based on results, as opposed to just mouthing off.

I'm happy about being fourth, because that's better than being sixth, and much better than being ninth, which we were not that long ago. It's progress. I'm also happy about the fact that we now project at 72 points, which is 6 more than last season. Also progress. But what I'm really happy about is the fact we're so close to the top that we are in effect now actually in the title race. When was the last time we could say that?
 

dpansheth

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But but but

Arteta coaches Arsenal better than Ole does United

But we’ll never finish in the top 4.

But Ole is a PE teacher
But but but we scored 3 in 13 minutes, we need to back the manager who made it happen
 

justsomebloke

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Nope.
We all have a game in hand on Chelsea though (Liverpool, United, Spurs, City, Leicester).
What? We do have a game in hand. We did not play in Round 1. Burnley, Aston Villa and City are in the same position, but everyone else has a game played more than us as soon as we're through the round.
 

el3mel

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What? We do have a game in hand. We did not play in Round 1. Burnley, Aston Villa and City are in the same position, but everyone else has a game played more than us as soon as we're through the round.
With today everyone played 10 matches bar Chelsea. The teams that have extra game ahead of us, will play them tomorrow.
 

sullydnl

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5 points separate 1st place and 10th place. In that context I wouldn't read too much into us being 4th, in the same way I wouldn't read too much into us being 10th in a couple of games' time if the margins are the same.
 

The Brown Bull

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We are certainly in a good position.
We have a lot of class footballers in our squad.
We have a top class keeper.
Top class creative players in Bruno, Pogba, Mata, Rashford, Martial.
Top class finishers in Cavani & Greenwood.
Would you trust us though?
 

Orc

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We would be joint top of the league with Chelsea if we won our game in hand against Burnley (of course Spurs and Liverpool would still need to play). We've been steadily creeping up the table after our terrible start. Things aren't great, the Arsenal result still stings, but the doom and gloom that has been portrayed is definitely OTT.

Still, it's funny how Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool etc are getting plaudits for how they're coping with the season so far, when we're right behind them. If we can put together a winning streak, we can really make a push for the top of the table. December feels like a defining month for us. We have the quality in the squad to put a proper run together. I'm just hoping we can get a result against RB Leipzig to give us a springboard for the rest of December.
Not really a mystery as to why those clubs are getting plaudits and United aren't, though. Chelsea & Liverpool play extremely attacking football that's pleasing on the eye and they regularly blow teams away. Spurs have been blowing sides away as well and you know the media love a bit of Mourinho.

On the other hand United have played some pretty turgid stuff for much of the season. You often play reactive, 'sit deep and counter attack' football like a small team. Not exactly what pundits are excited by.

I think United sitting where you are now is mostly a reflection of how poor everyone bar Liverpool, Spurs, and Chelsea are. Clubs like Leicester and Everton who everyone was fawning over earlier have had some shockingly terrible results in recent weeks which allowed United to shoot up the table despite playing mediocre stuff.

Must be said that it looks like both Manc clubs are waking up now, though. Both heading in the right direction.
 

McTerminator

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This is an embarrassing thread. Close it please.
only thing embarrassing about this thread are the posts trying to shoot down a very factual and positive statement.

we are 4th and only 2 points off the top contenders after 10 games.

mid that doesn’t makeyou at least a little happy you’re not a fan of the club.
 

el3mel

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only thing embarrassing about this thread are the posts trying to shoot down a very factual and positive statement.

we are 4th and only 2 points off the top contenders after 10 games.

mid that doesn’t makeyou at least a little happy you’re not a fan of the club.
We finished 3rd last season. What is the amazing thing in being 4th in early December?

Could have just said we are 2 points off first and no one would have complained.

But saying "we are 4th" in thread title as if this is an unexpected, magnificent position we suddenly found ourselves in is honestly embarrassing for a club like United. So we are at a state now we can't believe ourselves when we jump up the table to 4th?
 

roonster09

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We are level on points with title challengers and all conquering Spurs side who apparently have Jose of old times back and have much better squad than us.
 

Krakenzero

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We are 4th after 10 games, 2 points behind Spurs and Liverpool.

P.S. Moaners OUT
I don't really get this thread. Was it made for people who somehow don't have access to the PL standings? If not, I think it just embarrases the OP.
 

NK86

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Not really a mystery as to why those clubs are getting plaudits and United aren't, though. Chelsea & Liverpool play extremely attacking football that's pleasing on the eye and they regularly blow teams away. Spurs have been blowing sides away as well and you know the media love a bit of Mourinho.

On the other hand United have played some pretty turgid stuff for much of the season. You often play reactive, 'sit deep and counter attack' football like a small team. Not exactly what pundits are excited by.

I think United sitting where you are now is mostly a reflection of how poor everyone bar Liverpool, Spurs, and Chelsea are. Clubs like Leicester and Everton who everyone was fawning over earlier have had some shockingly terrible results in recent weeks which allowed United to shoot up the table despite playing mediocre stuff.

Must be said that it looks like both Manc clubs are waking up now, though. Both heading in the right direction.
You lot play "entertaining football"! :lol:

Yeah, the sit back and try to avoid to concede against us at OT at 0-0 really did blow my mind away to how "exciting" you lot are. Go WUM somewhere else.
 

POF

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After no pre season and starting the season way behind everyone else (except City) fitness wise United have done exceptionally well to be in this position.

The lack of context for United's results in the media is bad enough but when it's echoed by United fans it's particularly frustrating. That is why threads like this exist.

The only other team who started the season with the same disadvantage (City) are a far better team than United and a point behind. Yet, Ole is dead man walking despite being a point clear of one of the best managers of all time.

United will continue to be inconsistent because they have inconsistent players, especially up front. Of their 7 "front 3" options, they've spent a fee on 3 of them. One was a low priced punt from Swansea. The other 2 were 5/6 years ago. If you build your attack around kids, you'll be inconsistent.

Ole has his faults but he's currently in the midst of 9 consecutive away wins in the league, an all time club record and he's still getting slated left right and centre by United fans.
 

ReallyUSA

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We had such a shit fecking run, and to be fourth is actually a good sign.
 

Gasolin

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We lost to Palace and then we lost to Spurs and the whole world told us we were s***. We told them we didn’t have any preseason and we need some time to gear up, and they told us it’s BS, that the PE teacher will crash us.

After 10 games and already 3 losses, we offset that by winning the rest and drawing only once unfortunately. Yes, we should be happy the team has a mental resilience that we’ve been lacking since SAF left. If anything, I value that as this is exactly what will bring the title.

This is a young team and still learning, but yes, I don’t care about 4th, but I do care about the fantastic consistency in winning we have been showing since the Spurs game.
 

Redfrog

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So, are you happy? Are you positive this means we will end Top4 or even challenge for the title with a VanDick-less Liverpool and City looking human-normal? I am not. Ole's Utd is inconsisent. Unpredictable.

That's the problem with Ole. We could lose the next PL match and be knocked out of the UCL by Leipzig.

Inconsisent. Unpredictable.
Yeah sure. We should just appoint someone who wins all his matches as a manager, so we will be consistent and predictable and you will be happy.
Who do you suggest ?