Can sell a blank CD to the majority of you lot and you’d think Kanye produced it 
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Yeah to be honest I think we're in that tier with PSG, but in a tougher league. Or Barca the last few years, Madrid after Zidane, Juve. Big clubs with excellent individuals and loads of money to spend, but not the coaching to match. A very good collection of individuals, coaching is not like the top 4 in Europe who both have the squads and the coaching now (Bayern, City, Chelsea and Liverpool). You hope that the individual players can sometimes lead you to success, but we are objectively not better teams on a game to game basis, though can win in any individual match.
It's something that would work for many leagues and keep us as a tough opponent, but not in the league coming up against Pep, Klopp and Tuchel with equally excellent squads.
It's something that would work for many leagues and keep us as a tough opponent, but not in the league coming up against Pep, Klopp and Tuchel with equally excellent squads.
It's not all about being able to press though. Pressing isn't the only way to play and be successful. City is far from the aggressive pressers they used to be, but they have balance throughout. Liverpool have balance. Chelsea have balance. Bayern have balance. They attack as a group and with a plan, and they defend as group too, and are organized. Sometimes they might be vulnerable on the break, but for United it's just so obvious how unbalanced we are against even mediocre sides.
Yep - exactly this. We are one trick pony under Ole because we play like small time club with amazing talent. That's why we beat City numerous times, Liverpool, PSG etc... However when tactics are correctly set up and that is to press us, but not fully expose and allow counters, we often get beat.
Games against Wolves, Southampton and Young Boys were a total disaster this year. I saw no progress from last year. Maybe even slight regress due to Fred and Matic being sh1t and Bruno becoming even more offensive. We play like we don't have midfield.
Attacking set-pieces
Defensive set-pieces
Pressing as a unit
Playing out from the back
Use your eyes. It's been nearly THREE YEARS and we've not improved in any of the above during that time.
Yes, we are an awfully coached team.
Defensive set-pieces
Pressing as a unit
Playing out from the back
Use your eyes. It's been nearly THREE YEARS and we've not improved in any of the above during that time.
Yes, we are an awfully coached team.
Ronaldo scores and the whole team thinks the game is over. Then AWB is red carded and Ole decides to hide the team under a rock and hopes that they will stay dry that way from the rain. For good measure he removes his best players.
Just another example of Ole being Ole.
I can only imagine the hardware this team would win if they only had a coach with balls.
Just another example of Ole being Ole.
I can only imagine the hardware this team would win if they only had a coach with balls.
I agree.
We aren't a synergized team. We're not a team that's more than the sum of their parts.
The League cup and Europa League are major trophies, which a lot of people don't seem to realize. The Johnstone's paint trophy is a minor trophy.
Also Mourinho wasn't sacked after winning 2 trophies he was sacked 18 months later in the process pf tanking the club and fecking about playing midfielders in defence costing points as he was throwing a hissy fit because the club refused to buy all his transfer targets.
https://formation-y.com/en/league/premier_league.html
No one else in the top seven plays a 4231. The system is dated and we seem reluctant to try anything else.
No one else in the top seven plays a 4231. The system is dated and we seem reluctant to try anything else.
It's not always a fixed 4231 like in FM or FIFA tbf. There is more fluidity in a team's shape in possession and out of possession. That said, I don't like the double pivot and have always hated it.
The general structure of the team out of possession and in possession needs to be better.
A City team that reached 100 points compared to the City team Ole faced - that reached 86 points, 5 points ahead of Mourinho's second place United team which reached 81 points (compared to Ole's best season at 74 points). I'd easily argue that if Mou faced that City team and he had Ole's players, he would have won the league with his eyes closed. As far as winning trophies, you're exhibiting a small time mentality. Trophies are trophies. Trophies are needed in order to breed a winning culture into a club, the one United of old had. Without them what are we doing? Competing for top 4 before inevitably falling into obscurity like Arsenal? And EL is a major trophy, as well as the Carabao. EL in particiular might not be a CL, but I doubt any player would overlook it
Maybe our football has been more entertaining overall compared to Mourinho's tenure, but then again Ole has had much better players at his disposal. All I know is that Mou achieved everything Ole did better, on top of winning us trophies. Jury is out on Ole, he has not delivered on anything as far as I'm concerned. And this is his make or break it season. If he can't win anything with these players, then he can't win no matter what you give him. The team is stacked. It should dominate every game now with clear and sensible gameplan and pattern of play instead of individual brilliant moments form Bruno, Ronaldo, Pogba or whoever has his day.
Feels like we're back in 2011, talking about Fergie playing obsolete zombie football 4-4-2.
There's no such thing as a "dated" system, formations aren't one-size-fits-all. Playing 4-2-3-1 didn't stop Bayern winning the CL just the other year. The problem is in how we implement the system.
And three other teams in the most recent PL top seven (much as I would love to call it a season now, no one making a point in good faith will try and say we have a "top seven" after four rounds) - Leicester, Spurs, and West Ham - played a 4-2-3-1 regularly. That's literally a majority.
I remember Henry saying during an interview that Pep programmes his players to get the ball into the final third then let's players make decisions for themselves. It's really obvious that our players haven't been taught that and need to figure things out from the back. A lot of it is probably down to repetitions in training so, its hardly a surprise that we struggle so much unless we are countering.
Thread title changed by an insensitive poster.
WTF , who the feck changed the title?
Yeah it's unbelievable that some of Ole's most ardent supporters don't seem to have any concern with how utterly shite we are at controlling games, I am just getting so bored of seeing teams just walk through our midfield because our coaching team seemingly put zero emphasis on actually keeping the bloody ball.
Don't hold your breath when our board don't give a shit about on the pitch success
I was one of those ardent supporters. But I can no longer see any value in keeping Ole who appears tactically naïve when faced with adversity. It will cost us another year of silverware, which he will paper over through his impressive savviness in skirting around pointed questions posed by the media.
If you have the time, watch this video.
Sums it all for me, what do I stands for, what do I feel about Ole.
It's not blind support, but being a real United fan.
I wish that one day, all these massive overreactions will go away.
With the money we spent, Wolves, Southampton & fecking Young Boys were the better team playing against us.
I see no improvement from last season even though we added Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. It's still roller coaster from Ole.
Our style of play is still mainly relying on individual brilliance. The passings are slow and predictable, boring stuffs. Minimal off the ball movement. Look at how City, Liverpool and Chelsea play, it's day and night.
The excuses after more than 3 years:
1. Ole still need time to coach his team to play attacking football
2. Ole still need time to build his team. Now still missing CDM, RB, World class striker in Haaland, bla bla bla
3. Ole still need 3 to 4 transfer windows to get his team.
4. Ole is doing very well finishing top 4 two season in a row.
5. SAF also play zombie football in his last years at the club
6. No other manager can quarantee success so better stick with Ole
7. Those that can't see progress under Ole is spoilt and not a Top Red.
I see no improvement from last season even though we added Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. It's still roller coaster from Ole.
Our style of play is still mainly relying on individual brilliance. The passings are slow and predictable, boring stuffs. Minimal off the ball movement. Look at how City, Liverpool and Chelsea play, it's day and night.
The excuses after more than 3 years:
1. Ole still need time to coach his team to play attacking football
2. Ole still need time to build his team. Now still missing CDM, RB, World class striker in Haaland, bla bla bla
3. Ole still need 3 to 4 transfer windows to get his team.
4. Ole is doing very well finishing top 4 two season in a row.
5. SAF also play zombie football in his last years at the club
6. No other manager can quarantee success so better stick with Ole
7. Those that can't see progress under Ole is spoilt and not a Top Red.
I didn’t know others could change your thread title. Would it have to be a site admin?
I wish these pair of Ole inner clowns actually had the balls to comment on how utterly crap we are at controlling a game rather than being cowardly and skirting round the problem like the majority of these top reds in our fanbase. The best person I think to speak on this club is that Jay Daly from United Stand who will never sugarcoat things which is so refreshing
1. We played attacking football more often than not since Ole came in.
2. This team is good enough to win something, this is the season to prove it.
3. Nope, who said that?
4. Considering the fact that he did it during his rebuild, that was impressive. That's a fact you cant fabricate. I don't want to hear excuses about Chelsea being shit or Liverpool being shit, the table doesn't lie.
5. He actually did. Some of the games was atrocious to watch.
6. Of course there are managers out there, but why change when we're on the rise?
7. Actually, this is true. You want to chop and changing managers because we're an elite club we should be chasing for prestige and prestige only. Being a United fan is more than that, it's the romantiscm of how we gained those successful stories.
Yeah. It is still utter nonsense to believe we can't control the game of football despite being getting results.
Fine we haven't win trophies, but like you and the united stand dude has been using hyperbole to suggest we can't do it at all.
Which is a complete nonsense.
A incompetent manager like Ole should've failed to build this team we have now, and consistently failed to qualify for CL if all the things you all said is true.
Fact is, Ole has done it over and over again, there's no way we can't believe he will improve from where he is now.
That's the reality.
Every single one of these points is bang on but some people just want me to ostriches so don't waste your breath
Alright then when did we actually last control a game for 90 mins do enlighten me on that
Yeah don't waste your breath *continues posting 50 more times about Ole*
Yeah, it will have to be a mod.
Someone couldn't just take the criticism and probably pissed the pants thinking of backlash when the results go bad again in coming weeks.
.
IF he had actually not just appointed the Utd old boys when he got the job then wouldn't have lost me way back in March 2019
Well other clubs do tend to hire old boys to their coaching or management roles.
It is a problem for Ole, but not for other managers. That's weird, isn't it?
We lost some identity since Moyes was appointed.
This team feels like United again.
Yeah that must be it
never mind the fact that the thread is already 100 pages. Do you check this every day? The reaction to a harmless title change is hilariousIt's good the mods acknowledged that poor coaching thing is pure nonsense.Yeah that must be it
Yeah Chelsea springs to mind but fair play to their ruthless board they soon realised what a mistake it was to appoint Lampard and did the right thing by pulling the trigger on him early enough to save the season, I will acknowledge that it can work appointing old boys to coaching roles but only if your manager is elite level like a Klopp/Pep/Tuchel not just a good man manager with little coaching ability.
I’ve seen mods edit individual posts in this manner on other clubs’ forums but thought Redcafe was above this.
Feck me, this forum is getting to RAWK levels of toxicity when even the staff are taking sides and changing topic titles to WUM/Express an opinion that will wind others up.
It's reflective of the state of chaos and civil war within the fan base currently. Worse than under LVG and Mou. Kinda sad.
Also proof that OGS is not 'bringing the fans/club together.' I remember more boredom, despair, and desperation, but never this level of shithousery.
Lampard was given so many players and during the season he seems to lost the dressing room and finally the board.
Ole hasn't got to the stage yet in 3 seasons, pretty impressive stuff if you ask me.
Who can blame Ole for entrusting the coaches like Fergie did?
Like I said, I'm judging Ole this season, no trophies, he has to go.
To be fair Redcafe may not be reflective of overall fan sentiment, so maybe the majority are still very happy with Ole, I don’t know.
But now that we’ve stooped to this level, maybe an Ole-outer mod somewhere would want to change the title of Ole’s performance thread to “Performances”, with quotation marks. That would be fun
Issue is those leeches have spent good money on players. However the decision to let go of a manager should not be reliant on owners who barely have football knowledge. This should sit with the CEO. If the man in that seat is useless, then we will suffer as we are now.
Problem is the pals in media which Ole has. None of them is pointing out that how we have no patterns of play, how we have deadwood like Lingard and Jones on such high salary still in our squad, how we are hoarding players for the sake of it. Unfortunately if it was someone else, they would have turned on him by now. Even Keane is very lenient on Ole when he is someone who would call spade a spade.
I would say a Carabao cup should also not save him. If he gets knocked out of the CL group stages this time as well, we should get rid immediately else we risk the chance of having a sulking Ronaldo.
1. Let's just say our definition of attacking football is very different. Or make it simpler, ask opposition fans' general consensus whether man utd is an entertaining attacking team and you will get your answer.
2. Win something? Man Utd should aims for the league and CL. Anyway, hope u are right on this.
3. Go read more and you will find it in the forum.
4. Only Ole has 3 years and hundreds of millions for rebuild.
5. Can't believe u really put down SAF in order to make your point on Ole. SAF won MAJOR titles doing that.
6. On the rise with 2 TOP 4 finish and zombie outdated football? If this is the standard then no point replacing Ole with better manager.
7. Top Red