We are an awfully coached team

GaryLifo

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Been a fan for 40 years. Love Ole and always will.

This said, I just am not seeing it after nearly 3 years. Squad quality is hugely better but we start most games badly and I'm sat there scratching my head as to why I rarely see us dominate the game for more than 15 minute spells.

I'm already pretty certain we will not finish higher than 3rd this season and absolutely will not win any of the other trophies.

He's done a great job of turning us back on course from the end of the Jose era but I can't see it getting any better than 3rd/4th.

Just my opinion.
 

meamth

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Been a fan for 40 years. Love Ole and always will.

This said, I just am not seeing it after nearly 3 years. Squad quality is hugely better but we start most games badly and I'm sat there scratching my head as to why I rarely see us dominate the game for more than 15 minute spells.

I'm already pretty certain we will not finish higher than 3rd this season and absolutely will not win any of the other trophies.

He's done a great job of turning us back on course from the end of the Jose era but I can't see it getting any better than 3rd/4th.

Just my opinion.
You watch every team 90 minutes, the winning teams don't usually dominate all game.
 

MichaelRed

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Why is that so?

Both had 6 assists in 2020 season.
Have you seen them play? Trippier is infinitely better on the ball.
 

GaryLifo

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You watch every team 90 minutes, the winning teams don't usually dominate all game.
I didn't say we needed to dominate for 90 minutes. But 15 out of 90 is not going to be enough over the course of a season.

We're a decent side and we'll win more than we lose. We'll be nowhere near the title though IMO and if folk are good with that then fair enough. I've had 5 years now of having to enjoy seeing us win individual matches which ultimately count for nothing. Be nice to go back to winning something though eh?
 

devilish

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Pretty sure Trippier won't be picked if TAA is fit.

Both are deemed 3rd or 4th choice RB. It's all come down to the manager's preference.

Also, they both had 6 assists all season. :)
Still Trippier was chosen ahead of AWB and for very good reason. I don't know of many people who would choose AWB over Trippier tbh.
 

meamth

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I didn't say we needed to dominate for 90 minutes. But 15 out of 90 is not going to be enough over the course of a season.

We're a decent side and we'll win more than we lose. We'll be nowhere near the title though IMO and if folk are good with that then fair enough. I've had 5 years now of having to enjoy seeing us win individual matches which ultimately count for nothing. Be nice to go back to winning something though eh?
Have faith my friend. We'll see this season.. ;)
 

MichaelRed

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Both have pros and cons, both are solid players.

AWB can grow, Trippier finished article. I'd play AWB to improve him .
Huh? If you want to win you'd pick the best. Nobody is saying play Martial over Ronaldo because Martial can improve and Ronaldo is already the finished article.
 

Abraxas

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Huh? If you want to win you'd pick the best. Nobody is saying play Martial over Ronaldo because Martial can improve and Ronaldo is already the finished article.
A rather strange comparison, there is far more of a difference in level between Martial and Ronaldo than there is between AWB and Trippier, as I'm sure you know.
 

NZT-One

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what i am not getting is that people dont see the development united as a whole and the squad made since ole took over. since saf there was no time where i thought that the club is going in the right direction until ole. for me its not important that he has no name as a coach or manager, for me he showed he is a top manager allready. if he is a big coach i dont know but even saf was no big coach, he knew how to get the best staff to work with the players, ole will succeed, but it will take time. we are fighting against a city with unlimited funds, a chelsea with unlimited oil money and a liverpool that did quite well for a change. we are united, we have earned the possibility to spend big and ole managed to buy soundly - we will get there again, if people give him the chance.
Feels like you didn't really read much around here because there isn't much debate about that at all. Weird sentence to start because it takes away a bit from your post starting with such a statement.

Was this a knee jerk thread after a bad result or two?

I have no idea of the work behind the scenes of our coaches. However, I can only assume they will be very competent at their work. Let's start with M Phelen who was appointed by football Don Sir Alex as first-team coach and assistant manager. That's some CV. Kieran Mckenna's work was so impressive Jose elevated him to the first-team staff following the departure of his sidekick Rui Faria. I am not sure about Carrick as a coach. I do know he was a great professional and well respected as a footballer. I do remember Ole saying Carrick not being a yes man, and he wouldn't have it any other way.

That's a lot of coaching experience just to decide the choice of playing styles 4-4-2, 5-4-1, 3-4-3, 4-3-3 and in-game management. We also now have Ronaldo who will obviously have an input. There is so much experience now in the team the players should be able to coach themselves and deal with in-game management. They are no longer apprentices.

I'm not saying Ole or his coaches have always made the right decisions, but as fans, it's easy to criticise substitutions after the events. To be fair, Ole has improved the team year on year and last season we finished second and were pretty close to winning some competitions.

Let's judge him after a major portion of the season. Not when we're top of the league and just lost one game due to a sending off and a mistake by a player in injury time. Yes, if there is no improvement after the season or something drastic happens during the course of the season then it's time for a post-mortem. In the meantime get behind the team.
What? You are looking for Ronaldo to have some influence on the coaching team?

People tend to forget when Ole first came in, we we're top 6 at best. The squad quality was wank.

3 years on, look where we are now. The expectation went from top 4 best to must win the title. He barely acknowledged for that efforts, he brought the pressure to himself and this is when we support them and expect them to deliver.
They say Ole can't improve, but yet he has constantly improved, making those arguments that he can't do it stupid as hell.

The argument about how we play also contradicts to what I've seen so far. There are many games when we play tenacious entertaining football, the lads are fighting for it. Once we lose, draw or play badly, we're suddenly play boring football 99% of the time. That's the issue here. I can't agree to that argument.

Also stupid arguments saying the coaches are awful doesn't fit with the narrative that the players he inherited improved a lot! Fred, McT, Shaw, Lindelof, AWB, all have improved.

Shocking results do happen, can't we chill a bit and come back to January to see whether he should be sacked or not?
About the bolded part, seems like you do not read the posts properly. It isn't a debatable fact that we started from a bad position and have made quite some progress to get where we are. But how would that be a factor when talking about the coaching/tactical side of things? Or the current performances?

Why is that so?

Both had 6 assists in 2020 season.
And Cresswell had 8. Should he have been in team over Shaw?
 

meamth

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Huh? If you want to win you'd pick the best. Nobody is saying play Martial over Ronaldo because Martial can improve and Ronaldo is already the finished article.
Trippier aren't twice better than AWB. Seriously, is he better because he is picked by Southgate? :houllier:

Like I said, both assisted the same amount last season, how is better???
 

MichaelRed

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Trippier aren't twice better than AWB. Seriously, is he better because he is picked by Southgate? :houllier:

Like I said, both assisted the same amount last season, how is better???
How are you going to cling to a stat to pretend Trippier is no better than AWB going forward? Trippier suits a top side so much better than AWB as we should have a majority of possession and need good delivery from wide positions, especially with Ronaldo or Cavani in the middle.
 

meamth

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Feels like you didn't really read much around here because there isn't much debate about that at all. Weird sentence to start because it takes away a bit from your post starting with such a statement.


What? You are looking for Ronaldo to have some influence on the coaching team?


About the bolded part, seems like you do not read the posts properly. It isn't a debatable fact that we started from a bad position and have made quite some progress to get where we are. But how would that be a factor when talking about the coaching/tactical side of things? Or the current performances?


And Cresswell had 8. Should he have been in team over Shaw?
I did say players improved, the way we play tend to be overreaction when we lost or draw.

When we won, Ole barely gets any credits either, it's all player's brilliance. What nonsense is that?
 

meamth

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How are you going to cling to a stat to pretend Trippier is no better than AWB going forward? Trippier suits a top side so much better than AWB as we should have a majority of possession and need good delivery from wide positions, especially with Ronaldo or Cavani in the middle.
Ah, like I said. Both have pros and cons. Southgate brought 2 attacking RB to Euros. Why is that? Does that make AWB a shit player?

He prefers Kyle Walker at RCB, I'm confident other managers would bring AWB to be a defensive backup when we're closing up games or facing teams with rapid wingers.

He even used Trippier at LB, why bring Reece James then?

AWB is specialist for defending and occasionally can contribute to the attack. He has shown to be improving offensively since he first came here, why stop there? He suddenly can't improve anymore?
 

NZT-One

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I did say players improved, the way we play tend to be overreaction when we lost or draw.

When we won, Ole barely gets any credits either, it's all player's brilliance. What nonsense is that?
I can see where you are coming from with this. I agree, after a bad performance, lots of people instantly go for the manager. Which I don't think is correct at all. It all depends. Are they criticizing the a bad result or a bad performance? Have we been good but lost (or won) due to an individual masterpiece (or "masterpiece")?

Maybe this is what creates this impression for you. I would consider myself to be fair, when Ole makes a mistake, I criticize him. If he does not do anything and we win, I give him credit but there isn't much to write about. If he does nothing and we lose then I guess I criticize him because maybe he should have done something about it.

I know that sounds unfair and to some degree, I guess it is but this is the world of being a manager isn't it? I am the first one to acknowledge when he changes the game somehow or when he subs somebody in or out and we get better by doing so. But that really happens pretty rarely in my eyes.

AWB is specialist for defending and occasionally can contribute to the attack. He has shown to be improving offensively since he first came here, why stop there? He suddenly can't improve anymore?
This is a very optimistic outlook and certainly holds some merits. But still, I feel it wouldn't be fair to depict the situation as if AWB would be slightly below average and Trippier is slightly above. Trippier has been LM before, technically I would think, he is pretty close to Shaw (not the Great Shaw we have seen for most parts of last season) but current Shaw for example. And AWB has been targeted by opposition managers for his weakness of the ball or has been left free because he doesn't create any danger in their eyes.
The player surely can improve and I think, you are right, he made a few baby steps in the second part of last season, but his defensive qualities still don't outweigh his offensive shortcomings. Lets hope he continues his positive trend because we spent a lot of money on him. But I don't see why it would be a problem to potentially spur that development by bringing in another right-back to compete with him. It worked pretty well for Shaw.
 
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Raven

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I wish we had Pep who mops the floor with teams like Southhamton, no questions asked.
 

meamth

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HAHA.

City draw against Southampton at home.

11 shots, 1 on target.

BETTER COACHING INDEEDDDDDD.
 

Carl

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This thread was buzzing when we drew away at Southampton. I suppose City are awfull coached too.
 

JB08

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This thread was buzzing when we drew away at Southampton. I suppose City are awfull coached too.
Well they tend to win trophies over the course of a season. We don’t. So at present you can’t really draw equivalents. Hopefully this changes very soon…
 

Shiva87

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1 shot on target for the entire game. What a well coached team with consistent patterns of play! They should have won that game 9-0, with the number of triangles they created in midfield. Please call the professional judges to score that game properly.
 

meamth

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Well they tend to win trophies over the course of a season. We don’t. So at present you can’t really draw equivalents. Hopefully this changes very soon…
With established squad and spine. Of course they would. Pellegrini won PL with City.

Football is not just about coaching and tactics, you know. ;)
 

NZT-One

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Ah, like I said. Both have pros and cons. Southgate brought 2 attacking RB to Euros. Why is that? Does that make AWB a shit player?

He prefers Kyle Walker at RCB, I'm confident other managers would bring AWB to be a defensive backup when we're closing up games or facing teams with rapid wingers.

He even used Trippier at LB, why bring Reece James then?

AWB is specialist for defending and occasionally can contribute to the attack. He has shown to be improving offensively since he first came here, why stop there? He suddenly can't improve anymore?
HAHA.

City draw against Southampton at home.

11 shots, 1 on target.

BETTER COACHING INDEEDDDDDD.
But what about all those beautiful patterns of play? :lol:
1 shot on target for the entire game. What a well coached team with consistent patterns of play! They should have won that game 9-0, with the number of triangles they created in midfield. Please call the professional judges to score that game properly.
Isn't that kneejerk as well? :D
I mean we often remind ourselves not to overemphasize on individual results, aren't we?
 

Raven

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Can win any game of football, apparently.

Oh don't forget those over the top coaching hand sign segments from Pep to his players.
It's almost like all the people making those claims were talking directly out of the arses.
 

Raven

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Isn't that kneejerk as well? :D
I mean we often remind ourselves not to overemphasize on individual results, aren't we?
Are you starting to realise how ridiculous it was for any sensible poster on here? We know Pep is a fantastic manager, what this game illustrates is that any team can lose on any given day.
 

meamth

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Isn't that kneejerk as well? :D
I mean we often remind ourselves not to overemphasize on individual results, aren't we?
No, this is a proof that coaching bullshit doesn't mean shit.

Anything can happen in football. That's what it is.
 

Shiva87

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Isn't that kneejerk as well? :D
I mean we often remind ourselves not to overemphasize on individual results, aren't we?
Nope. Its not knee jerk. No one is saying Pep isn't brilliant and City aren't a great team which has won lots of titles, and are well coached.

We are only mocking a statement which is made as a truism by some fans on this forum. For e.g. we are awfully coached because we managed only a draw against Southampton, and didn't manage to create enough clear cut chances.

Even the so called best coached team can struggle to create against a low block, which has exceptional organization.
 

elmo

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Nope. Its not knee jerk. No one is saying Pep isn't brilliant and City aren't a great team which has won lots of titles, and are well coached.

We are only mocking a statement which is made as a truism by some fans on this forum. For e.g. we are awfully coached because we managed only a draw against Southampton, and didn't manage to create enough clear cut chances.

Even the so called best coached team can struggle to create against a low block, which has exceptional organization.
No, we're poorly coached because we struggle to break teams down in most games and rely on individual brilliance to score most of our goals.

It's why we always look like shit when Pogba/Bruno isn't scoring or assisting and the whole midfield looks clueless on what they're supposed to do beyond passing it to them.
 

meamth

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No, we're poorly coached because we struggle to break teams down in most games and rely on individual brilliance to score most of our goals.

It's why we always look like shit when Pogba/Bruno isn't scoring or assisting and the whole midfield looks clueless on what they're supposed to do beyond passing it to them.
Mate, they relying on De Bruyne to deliver magical final pass every game. InshaAllah De Bruyne.
 

bond19821982

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Agree to disagree my friend. Now we're enjoying the fact that City dropped points. Let's continue that conversation.
Which is fair and I respect that. I also think, a competent right back will transform our right side attack completely. AWB just isn't a right fit when we dominate the ball.
 

meamth

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Which is fair and I respect that. I also think, a competent right back will transform our right side attack completely. AWB just isn't a right fit when we dominate the ball.
Wouldn't disagree, but the idea of signing Trippier is to chase games when we fail to score, to have 2 different specialist in RB.

Dalot in the moment doesn't offer that, so Trippier make sense.

AWB and Trippier would compete with each other, neither are undisputed starter, if he joined.