No its a load of nonsense this thread and its not worth my effort either.
We are an awfully coached team
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
We need to work on our pressing. It was very easy to bypass
Also our defensive shapes, ball retention, chance creation and our game management. Still think this team could be really good under a good brave manager. Still not gotten over playing with two sixes at home Vs West Bromwich.
Yes their yelling has little effect. It could even have bad affect. They are restless characters. Simeone is both a restless man and an easily frustrated man. Pep is always a nervous wreck and Klopp is easily wound up. Those type of people yell a lot. That's never been Ole's character. Ancelotti doesn't yell either. Neither does Zidane. Phil Jackson isn't a yeller and he's maybe the best basketball coach in history. Kobe has specifically talked about how those approaches helped him. Many players respond poorly to be yelled at during a match. Many ignore it.
Look at it differently. Why are they yelling so much? Did they not prepare their players enough and have to make up for it? Maybe partly because they want everything to be perfect but now they can't change it. Most likely it's just impulse. Whatever the reason is it's definitely no proof whether a manager is good coach or a bad coach.
I think many would disagree with the first bit. In any workplace, if you have a manager, who is looking over your shoulder (not in a overzealous way i.e Mourinho) you would certainly be doing your job differently. I'm not saying better but differently and that's exactly the whole point of that particular action. You can prepare as much as you want pre-game but a manager's job to make sure the players do their job on the pitch. In a game many things happen that you need to adjust to.
I'm not saying every thing needs to be micro-managed but Ole's lack of action is definitely a net negative.
Not giving instructions, showing anger/passion/support on the sideline or making tactical tweaks is basically one or several tools in the box Ole is not using.
The only excuse I would give for not being on the sidelines and barking instructions is if the team is playing like peak Barca/Spain and completely dominating the opposition. First off, we are in a completely different universe away from that and compartively speaking, the managers of those teams achieved their results in part due to the 'leadership' from the sidelines.
Look at tonight's game for example. For me, the 1st half, start of 2nd and the substitutions was good. Then after 55 mins, it was clear and frankly disgraceful, we were being pinned back by their players. No changes at all until Matic come on in the 80 and it still didn't affect our sloppy, indecisive play. They pressed us high and we couldn't play out from the back and ended hoping a ball would break loose/play for the chance on the counter attacker. Of course it 'worked' because we had already won the game and our players are superior but a lack of sideline activity meant we were playing dour for 30mins. I mean yeah it's 'acceptable' in the 'we won, why concentrate on the negative details' but let's be honest this is not isolated.
P.S Ancelotti and Zidane may not yell like madmen but they are very visible from the sideline.
Why can't we move the ball like we did in the first half more often? You can always tell within the first 5 minutes whether we seem to be up for it. It's bizarre how often we start games with zero intensity and moving the ball at snails pace. And yet on certain occassions it's all 1 touch passing, movement and passing the ball quickly. Is it all to do with how the opposition are playing or are we approaching certain games differently to others?
Because of the way Istanbul set up.
It's not simply the low-block that United struggle against.
It's when the opposition combine a low-block with high-pressing and quick counter-attacking that we're at our most hopeless. Istanbul used this combination in the first game, but seemed to not bother with it today (probably because they couldn't replicate their early goal from a few weeks ago).
The Southampton game will be a lot tougher because they're brilliant at hitting all our weak points. But I'm hoping the introduction of Telles will give us a new dimension to get around it. The width he gives us could be vital.
I hope we are not coached to sprint for 90 mins, waste of energy. Saying that, I'd expect our stamina to last longer than 20 mins and be evident on a weekly basis. We seem to run out of battery quickly and it takes weeks to recharge.
Eighty-one. Seared into the minds of every supporter.
the antics on the sideline are a personality issue, not a coaching one. Simeone, Klopp, etc have a demonstrative, highly animated personality type. Others, like Ole, Ancelotti etc are less so. It's easy to view the antics as involvement or engagement but that is really not the same thing. I suspect if Ole was more animated and this carried over to media presence where he looked agitated, tough and aggressive, people would infer certain things about his coaching too, probably for the better but no more accurately for all that. While we might all like animation, let's not confuse this with something else.
Now as to the coaching team...I really do wish we had some known tactical whiz on the coaching staff. Ole understands the club, the standards and playing in a winning side. This puts him apart from his predecessors and should not be under-valued. But when I look at the others, I am not sure I see a tactical and coaching expert like Carlos Q. I am sure Phelan brings something to the day to day operations, but I am never sure what, exactly. And I have no sense of what Carrick, McKenna etc bring. Maybe there's more there than we know, in fact I am sure there has to be, but I don't feel like this coaching staff has the nous to really develop a playing philosophy and game approach that identifies itself as United. I remember Carlos saying once that he was brought in to help Fergie figure out how to deal with Mourinho's Chelsea and that he considered it a project that would take time to implement but he was confident in the outcome. Oh for such confidence now.
Now as to the coaching team...I really do wish we had some known tactical whiz on the coaching staff. Ole understands the club, the standards and playing in a winning side. This puts him apart from his predecessors and should not be under-valued. But when I look at the others, I am not sure I see a tactical and coaching expert like Carlos Q. I am sure Phelan brings something to the day to day operations, but I am never sure what, exactly. And I have no sense of what Carrick, McKenna etc bring. Maybe there's more there than we know, in fact I am sure there has to be, but I don't feel like this coaching staff has the nous to really develop a playing philosophy and game approach that identifies itself as United. I remember Carlos saying once that he was brought in to help Fergie figure out how to deal with Mourinho's Chelsea and that he considered it a project that would take time to implement but he was confident in the outcome. Oh for such confidence now.
I mean the weird thing is all the reports coming out about McKenna before he joined united were that he was some prodigious coach and it was a coup that we snagged him from Spurs. He was also great as our u18s coach getting them playing some great great football. I just don’t know how much authority he has or whether he isn’t as good as he was hyped up to be?
I’m pretty sure we just won our last game 4-1? Reading some of these comments you would think we are not top of our very tricky Champions League group with 3 convincing wins out of 4. Really not bad for a poorly coached team...
Or maybe he has done a great job, and it is up to the players...you know.
Better yet, still they complaining we have no style of play. Blind agenda driven feckers.
The Ole in brigade can twist it whichever way they want... the truth is United would win feck all with him at the helm. He is a mediocre manager with few tricks and gets exposed time and time again.
Ole along with Pogba needs to be shown the door and a competent manager like Pochettino needs to be brought in. These results sadly delay the inevitable. The sooner we take this decision the better.
Ole along with Pogba needs to be shown the door and a competent manager like Pochettino needs to be brought in. These results sadly delay the inevitable. The sooner we take this decision the better.
Yeah fully expect Southampton to be that same constantly pressing opposition we saw when they drew at Old Trafford after lockdown. They certainly won't be making the same mistakes that we have seen from both Leipzig & Istanbul
Wow you will be shocked and disappointed by Poch then when you will see him in action.
Anyway, our preseason is picking up, we will get more pts from now on. Much more pts.
I think Leipzig mistake was too keep pressing us. Are you saying Southampton won’t press us?
It’s actually pretty simple for us. If the fitness is good, we will eat them alive.
No I am saying they will press us and just hope we cope with it better than last time we faced them
I really do hope so. End of the day if it doesn’t work out there is a better manager not far away at Everton who would probably want one last shot at the big time not just Poch.
He’s easily good enough to coach our club and I’m suprised now he hasn’t been manager already. Ancelotti I would love at United even for just a few years.
That’s ok then. Again, Leipzig mistake was to be naive and keep pressing us. It opened avenues for us when we passed their pressing.
If our players are fit, we will counter press them as we did against Leipzig. And I suspect we will see some late goals in our favor. We have rotated so should be fresh enough.
Yep, Liverpool cross the ball a lot as well, that is why I'm so excited to see Telles.
A small is problem is Martial is normally out side the box when we cross the ball in open play.
They are probably taking Ole's entire spell as manager for United into consideration. I think everyone knows we can play some really good football at times (like in the 1st half last night) and win against just about anyone but there's more to being a well coached team than just topping a CL group after 4 games and 3 convincing wins.
We are very inconsistent, not only from month to month but also during games which doesn't exactly reinforce the idea that we're well coached. You only have to look at our last two games to see it, we looked like two completely different teams in the span of a few days.
We had 2 spells of half a seasons which were very consistent and good, so we can be consistently good.
The last game we came back from the international break and had 1d to try to work together. It shows up.
Being consistently good for half a season-ish and then poor for the rest means we're not consistent in my eyes. There will also always be international breaks, short turnarounds after cup games, injuries etc that takes our performance down a few %, which is another huge reason why we have to be well coached to maintain the standard needed to perform well even when everything is not optimal.
I'm not saying that it's unacceptable to be poor every now and then, but the huge dips we see from game to game or even when we're not playing our best 11 are far too big.
I think having your manager on the touchline does serve a purpose. He can indicate to the nearest player any in game changes. He can cajole and bollock the team. Ole did it last year with Lingard. It should keep a player on his toes if he looks to the touchline during breaks in play. If no one is there then you would naturally think im doing ok even if you are playing shit. It also shows passion and when you have a manager who would sooner look disinterested in the dugout or be looking at a monitor it gives the wrong vibes out to the players.
Our issue is that we are too reliant on Fernandes.
Solksjaer really needs to find a way of getting Pogba back in the fold and working a gameplan around Pogba so that we have different options. Alternatively, have us switch it up when Bruno isn't around and do something completely different.
Instead, we seem to have Plan A... and that's it. If Fernandes is playing well, we do okay. If he's playing shit or not playing at all, we play shit.
That's not good enough. There has to be activity around changing it up.
Solksjaer really needs to find a way of getting Pogba back in the fold and working a gameplan around Pogba so that we have different options. Alternatively, have us switch it up when Bruno isn't around and do something completely different.
Instead, we seem to have Plan A... and that's it. If Fernandes is playing well, we do okay. If he's playing shit or not playing at all, we play shit.
That's not good enough. There has to be activity around changing it up.
Can you explain why you are so certain Poch will win come in and win trophies? Or excuse why he was exposed time and time again in games against the top 6?
There is a very good team in there, we really need a better coach to exploit all these talents. We cant rely always on Bruno to save us.
I think people with concerns just still have those concerns even after a win, just like those who think Ole is building a decent side still believe so after a loss.
Who is well coached in the Prem then? Liverpool have had their sticky moments this season but I think everyone would agree they've been well coached. Spurs I would say have been consistently pretty good this year. Southampton and West Ham (shockingly!) have also generally shaped up well.
Not many names there though. Pep has been a disaster since at least after the 1st lockdown. Arsenal just look clueless half the time, Arteta is so busy fighting fires in their defence that they've forgotten how to attack. Leicester only seem to know how to play when all their first choice players are available, beyond that it's square peg round hole stuff. Wolves only start playing after 75 minutes. Lampard is doing ok but he's bought a whole new team at vast cost, he should be doing ok. He very much seems like a Poundland Ole to me. Villa have been a real surprise package but nobody who watched them play Southampton would say they are well coached. Ancelotti I really like but I honestly don't see much in him coaching wise. Sheffield it's hard to tell because they were superb last season but they have a lot of really shit players, particularly up top. Could Wilder actually achieve success with better players? Not sure, he seems very unwilling to work with non-British players.
Like it or not, Ole and his team are one of the better sets of coaches in the league right now, albeit most definitely not the best. Certainly wouldn't swap him for Nuno, Rodgers, Arteta or Smith right now and I think we all would hate to see Mourinho or Moyes make a triumphant return. So unless you want to take a gamble on Pep or Carlo, the only clearly vastly better manager is Klopp, and Hasenhuttl could perhaps be worth a punt.
Makes it all the stranger that Poch can't get a gig anywhere tbf but again I don't see him as levels above Ole, quite similar in style really and in fact has won even less.
I think we now know Ole's style, and United's on the pitch. Organised in defence, fast attacking transitions and quick interplay around the box. I like it.
Sure it's been mentioned but the one touch passing between Cavani, Bruno and, VDB was great, but its clearly something they're doing and its not a trained tactic, because the rest of the team, minus maybe Rashford a bit don't do it and it basically died out in the second half with the changes.
I think we have had poor first halves of season but if it’s just fitness then we can fix it still. It should be picking up soon. Second half we will be strong. We know Ole focuses a lot on fitness and intensity so we can expect good runs soon.
You can add Martial and Greenwood, as well as Pogba when they are in condition to attack. AWB as well? Shaw? Look at some of our goals, we have spells where it’s one touch or two touch maximum over 20+ passes before a goal. It is something we work on but not everyone is consistently good, that takes time if it’s less natural for the player. But we know how Ole wants to play.
So just reading this page, for some Ole goes and we bring in Poch as he's a far better coach after what he did at Southampton and Spurs. If he fails the next in line is Ancelotti. The problem I see is that since Fergie left we've gone with the chosen one, the guy with vast experience, the special one and now a club legend. Two of those who have gone before Ole have won leagues all over Europe, won Europe's biggest prizes and still couldn't get the team playing to a standard where they were challenging or playing football deemed attractive enough to match that to which we'd become accustomed under Fergie. Who's to say Poch or Ancelotti will be able to do the same thing?
Let's get behind Ole till it's neigh on impossible for him to continue, give him the chance. Some of us can remember what it was like before Fergie, and even if we didn't have a team to challenge for the league, or even cups for that matter we gave managers chances even Dave Sexton, who turned the most attacking young team we'd had in years to a boring one in a matter of months. I dread to think what levels of abuse Fergie would be getting if we had the internet in 86 through to him winning the cup in 90. It would be at least 200 times worse for sure.
Let's get behind Ole till it's neigh on impossible for him to continue, give him the chance. Some of us can remember what it was like before Fergie, and even if we didn't have a team to challenge for the league, or even cups for that matter we gave managers chances even Dave Sexton, who turned the most attacking young team we'd had in years to a boring one in a matter of months. I dread to think what levels of abuse Fergie would be getting if we had the internet in 86 through to him winning the cup in 90. It would be at least 200 times worse for sure.
Get yer tin hat. Things could get a bit messy.....
