We are an awfully coached team

sullydnl

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Wait what!? If i say this was piss fecking poor on next level, they could score at least 4 in 1st half, had chances in 2nd on top performance being dog shit, other people will shove what exactly in my face, some deluded Ty level nonsense, that probably.
I'm saying if people focus on the actual performance levels in their criticism, then whether we win or lose you can make that point if the performance levels stay at that poor standard.

But some posters went OTT off the back of the Villa result in a way they wouldn't have if we happened to get lucky in that game with the exact same performance, being needlessly obnoxious. And those posters obviously rubbed people up the wrong way, so it just primes the other side of the argument to be obnoxious when we do get those lucky wins.

So, basically, people should be a bit more calm win or lose and that way the forum is a nicer place.
 

giggs-beckham

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Understandably unhappy at being subbed off when the team needed a goal.. I wouldn't be smiling in that situation either. It's good for the team that we have more game changers now.
Haven't seen it yet but pogbas not normally like that. After a dramatic win he's usually the main one to go crazy.
 

Bobski

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How do we get a balanced team out? We have all these names but their individual talents are massively offset by the tactical flaws they create.

Ronaldo scores but means playing with 10.5 men most of the game. Greenwood and Sancho don't work both ways. Pogba and Bruno have no positional discipline. MCFred both want to chase the ball and not sit.

Chaos upon chaos.
 

LJJT

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If AWB played tonight they wouldn’t have had half as many chances, if any. We won the game, he got the subs right, we dominated in large spells. We made changes mid game that won the game. They are a very good side we beat tonight
 

Ole's screen

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Yeah, new coaches sell the entire team they inherit and buy new 11 players. Keep on inventing myths.
Nobody said that, keep on inventing myths about myths.

Not complete 11, but each coach brings in a few key players that they like that their predecessor didn't and similarly don't like some that they did. You're picking Chelsea out under Tuchel, but he's pretty much the exception and that was mostly because the squad had been assembled specifically with his strengths with two young German players recently bought. Pep had to have 2 transfer windows to get his players in, Jose sidelined crucial first team players under LvG like Blind, Schneiderlin, and Schweiny. Ole did the same with crucial Jose players like Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Lukaku etc. Lets not pretend that a new manager coming in midseason automatically changes the fortunes for the better.
 

pocco

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Chelsea don't have those structural issues. They hire "head coaches" not "managers". Their recruitment and coaching strategy are separate and the club are designed for 2-3 years cycles of coaching. We on the other hand, just give each manager pretty much full control. Both LvG and Jose pointed to this as issues preventing them from succeeding. Tuchel would, IMO, not have been as successful here as he is at Chelsea.
We've changed our structure since Jose and LVG.
 

el3mel

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Nobody said that, keep on inventing myths about myths.

Not complete 11, but each coach brings in a few key players that they like that their predecessor didn't and similarly don't like some that they did. You're picking Chelsea out under Tuchel, but he's pretty much the exception and that was mostly because the squad had been assembled specifically with his strengths with two young German players recently bought. Pep had to have 2 transfer windows to get his players in, Jose sidelined crucial first team players under LvG like Blind, Schneiderlin, and Schweiny. Ole did the same with crucial Jose players like Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Lukaku etc. Lets not pretend that a new manager coming in midseason automatically changes the fortunes for the better.
You literally said that new coach will disassemble the team which is absolute bollocks.

Any new coach would immediately disassemble this team and want "his" players in. I don't think Ole's up to it, but I do think our structural issues make it almost impossible for a proper coach to succeed. I think this is our ceiling until those issues are fixed.
No coach disassemble the team they inherit when this team is actually good and doesn't need a rebuild, like our current team. They build on it. Stop inventing myths and try watching some football outside United to know how other clubs work.
 

Ole's screen

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We've changed our structure since Jose and LVG.
Lets see what our move is post Ole then. I think many of the changes we've made haven't really changed anything - they're just superficial. The new structures to me look to be designed specifically with Ole in mind and I don't know how well they'd fit with another head coach.
 

Idxomer

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Loved his 2 - 2 - 5 formation in the 1st half.

It showed there's a lot of coaching going on.
 

Ole's screen

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You literally said that new coach will disassemble the team which is absolute bollocks.



No coach disassemble the team they inherit when this team is actually good and doesn't need a rebuild, like our current team. They build on it. Stop inventing myths and try watching some football outside United to know how other clubs work.
We're not other clubs though. LvG was successful at other clubs. So was Jose. This tells me there's something specifically wrong with United that goes deeper than coaching.
 

el3mel

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We're not other clubs though. LvG was successful at other clubs. So was Jose. This tells me there's something specifically wrong with United that goes deeper than coaching.
Mourinho had a disastrous season at Chelsea before joining us and LVG had a lot of failure in his career prior to United, so yeah, my advice still stands, try and watch some football outside United to know football works.
 

oreon

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Nobody said that, keep on inventing myths about myths.

Not complete 11, but each coach brings in a few key players that they like that their predecessor didn't and similarly don't like some that they did. You're picking Chelsea out under Tuchel, but he's pretty much the exception and that was mostly because the squad had been assembled specifically with his strengths with two young German players recently bought. Pep had to have 2 transfer windows to get his players in, Jose sidelined crucial first team players under LvG like Blind, Schneiderlin, and Schweiny. Ole did the same with crucial Jose players like Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Lukaku etc. Lets not pretend that a new manager coming in midseason automatically changes the fortunes for the better.
This not true. Just look around.

Tuchel literally came in midseason and they won the UCL. Zidane in his first 3 seasons as coach won the UCL 3 years in a row. Guardiola won the EPL in his 1st season. Conte won EPL in hist 1st season. Roberto Di Matteo won the UCL in his 1st season as a caretaker.

This UTD squad is set, there are not many changes needed. This idea that with a new manager comes we will need to sell and rebuild from scratch is not true. Team building doesn't work like that. We have seen a host of examples where a new manager wins with minor changes.

UTD need to decide if winning trophies is the number 1 priority or not. The era of one coach staying in a club for 20 + years is over. Now you move on from the manager once the team has stagnated. Which is where we are.
 

DevTheRed

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I don’t know what it going on with our forward line. Why was Pogba and Bruno so high up the pitch and why does no one come and offer any link up play when we go wide when it seems to be our only game plan.

The Pogba and Bruno high mine must be an instruction from Ole, it can’t be a coincidence that they both do it. I cannot figure out what we benefit from it.. how are we supposed to get the ball to them when they’re stood behind a line of 4 players and stood near the opposition centre backs? Very strange tactic.
 

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This not true. Just look around.

Tuchel literally came in midseason and they won the UCL. Zidane in his first 3 seasons as coach won the UCL 3 years in a row. Guardiola won the EPL in his 1st season. Conte won EPL in hist 1st season. Roberto Di Matteo won the UCL in his 1st season as a caretaker.

This UTD squad is set, there are not many changes needed. This idea that with a new manager comes we will need to sell and rebuild from scratch is not true. Team building doesn't work like that. We have seen a host of examples where a new manager wins with minor changes.

UTD need to decide if winning trophies is the number 1 priority or not. The era of one coach staying in a club for 20 + years is over. Now you move on from the manager once the team has stagnated. Which is where we are.
I mostly agree with you. Except that Pep finished 4th his first EPL season.

The club needs to be restructured so that our manager position becomes more modular and we can plug and play with the latest "in vogue" tactical coach like other clubs do. I just don't think it is, and I'm not sure that we're trying to be.
 

DRJosh

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We seem to press without having any overarching system. At a particular point in the first half, you could sense the indecision of some players whether to go in for the ball or hold ground. That split second of hesitation will always be a vulnerability.

I mean surely Carrick gets it?
 

Trondivan

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This thread is gold. When We loose; Ole is shit. When We win; shit game. Got lucky. Ole out, patterns of play etc.

Chelsea, Barca, City and Real lost. This cup is hard to win. Get real and get behind the team.
 

Ole's screen

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There's no assumption. You point is nonsensical and shows that you don't know how football works. "New manager will disassemble the squad". :lol:
Does dissaemble mean to you that every single player will be sold? It just means that he''ll need a couple of crucial players and will want a couple of windows before he can be fairly judged. Say we sack Ole today. And we get in someone new and they fail to win anything. What do we do then but just say "hey he's not had any transfers yet" and back we are to the cycle.
 

pocco

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We seem to press without having any overarching system. At a particular point in the first half, you could sense the indecision of some players whether to go in for the ball or hold ground. That split second of hesitation will always be a vulnerability.

I mean surely Carrick gets it?
Yeah Emery knew that we only press half heartedly. That's why he got his defenders to just stand with the ball till one player committed so they could play around us and away they go.
 

Kush

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How do we get a balanced team out? We have all these names but their individual talents are massively offset by the tactical flaws they create.

Ronaldo scores but means playing with 10.5 men most of the game. Greenwood and Sancho don't work both ways. Pogba and Bruno have no positional discipline. MCFred both want to chase the ball and not sit.

Chaos upon chaos.
We should test 5 at the back, as a collective we are just as bad at defending as we are attacking. We have been conceding way too many chances this season despite adding Varane, teams with more quality will punish us in coming weeks.

With one extra CB at the back, we can step away from duo of McTominay and Fred, give vDB a go.

DDG
Varane-Maguire-Lindelof
AWB-Matic/McTominay-VDB-Shaw
Bruno
Ronaldo Greenwood/Cavani
 

UnitedFire

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We should test 5 at the back, as a collective we are just as bad at defending as we are attacking. We have been conceding way too many chances this season despite adding Varane, teams with more quality will punish us in coming weeks.

With one extra CB at the back, we can step away from duo of McTominay and Fred, give vDB a go.

DDG
Varane-Maguire-Lindelof
AWB-Matic/McTominay-VDB-Shaw
Bruno
Ronaldo Greenwood/Cavani
We don't need 3 CBs, we just need a competent midfield. Also if you are playing three at the back it has to he Dalot and Telles as wing backs given they can actually cross. Shaw to be fair offers a lot in different ways.
 

SAFMUTD

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Pep and Tuchel lost while Ole won. Will be a period of absolute mourning in this forum for a few days.
Can't be serious...I didn't watched Chelsea's game but City were really good they deserved better.

I'd be way more assured if we played like City and lost rather than play like we did an win.
 

Mickson

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This thread is gold. When We loose; Ole is shit. When We win; shit game. Got lucky. Ole out, patterns of play etc.

Chelsea, Barca, City and Real lost. This cup is hard to win. Get real and get behind the team.
Mate, we're Man United and play worse than Bodö
 

Siorac

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Any new coach would immediately disassemble this team and want "his" players in. I don't think Ole's up to it, but I do think our structural issues make it almost impossible for a proper coach to succeed. I think this is our ceiling until those issues are fixed.
We should make it clear to any new coach that completely disassembling the team is not an option. This squad doesn't need major surgery at all.
 

sullydnl

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This thread is gold. When We loose; Ole is shit. When We win; shit game. Got lucky. Ole out, patterns of play etc.

Chelsea, Barca, City and Real lost. This cup is hard to win. Get real and get behind the team.
The same is true on the reverse side too though. When we lose, people get accused of jumping on the manager. When we win, people are spoiled and miserable for complaining.

Meanwhile while all the bickering is going on, the same top-four-but-not-title-challenging standard of performances remains the same.
 

el3mel

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Does dissaemble mean to you that every single player will be sold? It just means that he''ll need a couple of crucial players and will want a couple of windows before he can be fairly judged. Say we sack Ole today. And we get in someone new and they fail to win anything. What doing we do then but just say "hey he's not had any transfers yet" and back we are to the cycle.
Again, that's not how football works. :lol: Only on Caf and for United you'll see ridiculous things like "manager should get few windows before being judged". This is only when you're rebuilding a squad or in a transitional phase. We're not.

Managers are judged immediately if they inherit a good enough squads to win trophies, like our current one. Clubs sack managesr 6 months in their tenure if they couldn't get a tone of a top squad. They sack them after one year or even 18 months if they couldn't win with the squad they inherited.

What happens is managers come and buy few more players and build on the squad they inherited. No one "disassemble" the squad and no one needs "few windows" before being judged. One window is more than enough when you have a top team. If we sack Ole and the next manager failed to win or improve our performance with such stacked squad within at least a year, he should also get sacked.

So yeah, your points are nonsensical. This has to be the most hilarious excuse for Ole to stay. "Don't sack him because the next manager will disassemble the squad". :lol: Do you even believe what you're writing ?
 

bosnian_red

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The same is true on the reverse side too though. When we lose, people get accused of jumping on the manager. When we win, people are spoiled and miserable for complaining.

Meanwhile while all the bickering is going on, the same top-four-but-not-title-challenging standard of performances remains the same.
Tbf our performance level hasn't even been that, but we have better individuals than pretty much anyone in the league so we are top 4.