We are an awfully coached team

[oreon]

I mostly agree with you. Except that Pep finished 4th his first EPL season.

The club needs to be restructured so that our manager position becomes more modular and we can plug and play with the latest "in vogue" tactical coach like other clubs do. I just don't think it is, and I'm not sure that we're trying to be.

The squad right now is pretty flexible tactically. I think Zidane could coach this team with no or 1 or 2 personnel changes. In terms of the hierarchy above the coach. That's pretty straight forward. Replace John Murtough and Fletcher with experienced technical and sporting directors who know football outside the EPL. We need people in charge who can analyze the game and have an idea where the game is going. Neither the two can.

UTD with their resources can go as is and comfortably make top 4. But to win, we need to adapt to how the game is now. And we can start with replacing Ole with someone better

 

[Big Ben Foster]

If he threw that at the manager then he should be off to the reserves and never play for us again

That doesn't sound like punishment, considering he already doesn't play for us.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We're going nowhere.

We have played terrible in the majority of games this season.

That win was great, but that performance was just terrible.

 

[Jezpeza]

I don’t know what it going on with our forward line. Why was Pogba and Bruno so high up the pitch and why does no one come and offer any link up play when we go wide when it seems to be our only game plan.

The Pogba and Bruno high mine must be an instruction from Ole, it can’t be a coincidence that they both do it. I cannot figure out what we benefit from it.. how are we supposed to get the ball to them when they’re stood behind a line of 4 players and stood near the opposition centre backs? Very strange tactic.

Its the elephant in the room on team selection i think. Pogba doesnt work deep. Mcfred doesnt work in a game where we are going to have possession. I dont think pogba works in left midfield and eventually would keep 2 of sancho, rashford and greenwood out the team.

I think one of Pogba and Bruno should be on the bench. They do play some nice link ups etc between them but has a huge effect on team shape

 

[Ole's screen]

The squad right now is pretty flexible tactically. I think Zidane could coach this team with no or 1 or 2 personnel changes. In terms of the hierarchy above the coach. That's pretty straight forward. Replace John Murtough and Fletcher with experienced technical and sporting directors who know football outside the EPL. We need people in charge who can analyze the game and have an idea where the game is going. Neither the two can.

UTD with their resources can go as is and comfortably make top 4. But to win, we need to adapt to how the game is now. And we can start with replacing Ole with someone better

I think the new sporting director should be the one making the appointment. The problem is I don't know if I trust anyone at the club to even figure out who the ideal replacement for Ole should be. We've lurched from Moyes to LvG to Jose to Ole - there doesn't seem to be a through line there. What exactly are we looking for from our managers?

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

STFU Donnie.

 

[bond19821982]

Any new coach would immediately disassemble this team and want "his" players in. I don't think Ole's up to it, but I do think our structural issues make it almost impossible for a proper coach to succeed. I think this is our ceiling until those issues are fixed.

Not this shit again. You do know it's a completely stupid myth to even suggest that ?

 

[MrSingh2002]

Ole is in over his head playing to win trophies.

There's no shame in that but it's true.

 

[Gungne]

Awfully coached team?
Defense - Shaw and AWB not playing, and Dalot was horrible.
Midfield - HELP!!

 

[stw2022]

Tonight was his ideal. Late winner. “United way”

I would lay money on the fact there isn’t going to be a single concern about how we fared first half. No internal reviews, no questions, no repercussions - nothing. There never is, or as at least there’s never evidence that there is.

 

[Ole's screen]

Again, that's not how football works. Only on Caf and for United you'll see ridiculous things like "manager should get few windows before being judged". This is only when you're rebuilding a squad or in a transitional phase. We're not.

Managers are judged immediately if they inherit a good enough squads to win trophies, like our current one. Clubs sack managesr 6 months in their tenure if they couldn't get a tone of a top squad. They sack them after one year or even 18 months if they couldn't win with the squad they inherited.

What happens is managers come and buy few more players and build on the squad they inherited. No one "disassemble" the squad and no one needs "few windows" before being judged. One window is more than enough when you have a top team. If we sack Ole and the next manager failed to win or improve our performance with such stacked squad within at least a year, he should also get sacked.

So yeah, your points are nonsensical. This has to be the most hilarious excuse for Ole to stay. "Don't sack him because the next manager will disassemble the squad". Do you even believe what you're writing ?

Honestly I'm at the point where I don't think Ole has what it takes to succeed. I'll probably never actively want him sacked as I love the guy and I'm kind of a romantic but I'm ambivalent about him being sacked. But you seem to be confusing other clubs with United. What matters isn't what other clubs do here. Its what United do and how they think about managers that matters. If you think we're gonna sack Ole only to immediately sack his replacement if he doesn't win anything I'd question if you know anything about how United works at all.

And I love that half sentence you've picked out and keep harping on about as though it proves anything. All it shows that you lack reading comprehension. You started it.

 

[RedIan]

Ive supported ole for 3 years - but tonight was the final straw. Ok we won, how i dont know, we were 2nd best by a mile for 60 minutes. DDG kept us in it.

First half tactics baffled me.. I felt like i was watching 4 -1 -5 with VR attacking at will and slicing through us. Changes had to made at half time and none happened. We needed some sort of control in midfield but MCT was on his own sitting with Pogba far to high up as was bruno….

Emery got VR tactics spot on, very very unlucky they didnt take a couple of their many good chances first half. He looked like a man who had prepared his players and got tactics spot on… ole looked like a man who didnt half a clue…. It was clear after 20 minutes things were wrong but he left it —

But he got lucky in the end.

 

[DutchCruijff]

All I'm going to say is this -

From 16th Oct - 30th Nov - Leicester (A), Atalanta, Liverpool, Spurs (A), Atalanta (A), Man City, Watford (A), Villareal (A), Chelsea (A) and Arsenal.

The time for "middling it" isn't acceptable anymore.

Nothing less than a convincing UCL group progression + coming out of that run as legitimate title challengers WITH a strong, cohesive play from the team. Nothing less.

No "just scraped through UCL group stages", none of this "still in the Top 4" or "look at other teams, we're not doing too badly".

 

[Jezpeza]

Tonight was his ideal. Late winner. “United way”

I would lay money on the fact there isn’t going to be a single concern about how we fared first half. No internal reviews, no questions, no repercussions - nothing. There never is, or as at least there’s never evidence that there is.

We are poor most first halves of most games tbh. Theres an annoying and concerning habit for us to start at a completely pedestrian pace and intensity to test the water if we can win in 1st gear. We then start to play when we go behind. I dont understand why we dont do what other teams do - get 2 or 3 ahead then go back into 1st gear and pass it round the back. We seem to start games playing like we are 3-0 up and seeing out the last 5 minutes

 

[Desert Eagle]

All I'm going to say is this -

From 16th Oct - 30th Nov - Leicester (A), Atalanta, Liverpool, Spurs (A), Atalanta (A), Man City, Watford (A), Villareal (A), Chelsea (A) and Arsenal.

The time for "middling it" isn't acceptable anymore.

Nothing less than a convincing UCL group progression + coming out of that run as legitimate title challengers WITH a strong, cohesive play from the team. Nothing less.

No "just scraped through UCL group stages", none of this "still in the Top 4" or "look at other teams, we're not doing too badly".

I got bad news for ya buddy..

 

[Jezpeza]

All I'm going to say is this -

From 16th Oct - 30th Nov - Leicester (A), Atalanta, Liverpool, Spurs (A), Atalanta (A), Man City, Watford (A), Villareal (A), Chelsea (A) and Arsenal.

The time for "middling it" isn't acceptable anymore.

Nothing less than a convincing UCL group progression + coming out of that run as legitimate title challengers WITH a strong, cohesive play from the team. Nothing less.

No "just scraped through UCL group stages", none of this "still in the Top 4" or "look at other teams, we're not doing too badly".

Thats a hell of a run of games. We will find out a lot about this group of players and the manager by the start of december. I actually think the biggest factor in the title race this year will be head to head results.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Tonight was his ideal. Late winner. “United way”

I would lay money on the fact there isn’t going to be a single concern about how we fared first half. No internal reviews, no questions, no repercussions - nothing. There never is, or as at least there’s never evidence that there is.

What evidence of internal reviews or questions do you want. Of course they’ll go over the game ffs

 

[oreon]

I think the new sporting director should be the one making the appointment. The problem is I don't know if I trust anyone at the club to even figure out who the ideal replacement for Ole should be. We've lurched from Moyes to LvG to Jose to Ole - there doesn't seem to be a through line there. What exactly are we looking for from our managers?

Zidane is an easy choice here. He has familiarity with Varane and CR7. He will command immediate respect. He plays the 4 3 3, so not many changes will be required. If things go sour, I hope they turn to him. He's UCL specialist and for a club like UTD 3 UCL is not good enough.

If he's not available then it's a little harder. Conte is also available but he will definitely want new full backs and a traditional CM and a proper CDM, so that 4 players at least.

As far as sporting and technical director, I doubt the Glazers would go for more experienced. I think they want people they can easily override them. It's a shame because had we proper people in place we would saved millions in the transfer market. I mean look at VDB, he just doesn't fit and probably isn't suited to the EPL

 

[RetroStu]

I dont think Ole would get sacked anyway until the end of the season, regardless of what we do in the league and cups (outside of being in the relegation places after Christmas, which shouldnt happen i hope).

This shit is here to stay until the end of the season at least.

 

[Matriac]

Tonight was his ideal. Late winner. “United way”

I would lay money on the fact there isn’t going to be a single concern about how we fared first half. No internal reviews, no questions, no repercussions - nothing. There never is, or as at least there’s never evidence that there is.

We were on the front foot the first 15-20mins, but Dalot was struggling so much with Danjuma that Villareal were unlucky not to have scored.

We decide to take our foot off the gas pedal, give some more ball control over to Villareal so we can sit further back to help out Dalot. After that they didn't really get the same type of big chances. They still looked dangerous, but we had more defensive control to not be caught on the break. Dalot still struggled of course, but usually had someone to cover for him.

 

[DevTheRed]

Its the elephant in the room on team selection i think. Pogba doesnt work deep. Mcfred doesnt work in a game where we are going to have possession. I dont think pogba works in left midfield and eventually would keep 2 of sancho, rashford and greenwood out the team.

I think one of Pogba and Bruno should be on the bench. They do play some nice link ups etc between them but has a huge effect on team shape

100% agree. I think the whole ‘can Bruno and Pogba play together’ debate needs to putting to bed. They can’t. Not against teams like this anyway. There’s no balance to the team at all when they both basically have a free role whenever they play.. leaves massive gaps in the team.

Hoping Pogba is on the bench at the weekend so we have two proper wide players in Sancho and Greenwood on the wings, and Bruno at 10 doing what he does best.

 

[pocco]

We should test 5 at the back, as a collective we are just as bad at defending as we are attacking. We have been conceding way too many chances this season despite adding Varane, teams with more quality will punish us in coming weeks.

With one extra CB at the back, we can step away from duo of McTominay and Fred, give vDB a go.

DDG
Varane-Maguire-Lindelof
AWB-Matic/McTominay-VDB-Shaw
Bruno
Ronaldo Greenwood/Cavani

To have to go to 5 at the back now would be sheer embarrassment for us with the defence we have. We absolutely cannot sacrifice anything in midfield or attack as we can't lose any players, including Pogba, who can bail us out.

 

[MichaelRed]

I don't know if I've ever felt so happy and so depressed at the same time. I think I might actually just explode. So delighted to win & with the last kick of the game to save our CL campaign too. So depressed because Ole is the most clueless manager to ever have the United job & you could write a book on the most blatant basic mistakes he makes every single game. We play that game 10 times and we probably lose it 8 or 9 times.

 

[matherto]

We cannot defend to save our lives.

We’re wide open in midfield.

We’re barely creative in attack relying on individual brilliance.

No idea what the plan is but it’s sure as hell no working.

Though we were going 4-3-3 for a start but are we hamstrung trying to fit Brunokn then?

 

[estel_manutd]

We have to play with a three-man central midfield like Liverpool if we want to win the PL this season. Play any three of Pogba, Matic, Scot, Fred, and Donny. Yes, this might mean playing Bruno as a false 9 with two of Cavani/Greenwood/Ronaldo/Sancho/Rashford/Martial starting wide and cutting in.

 

[Ali Dia]

Thats a hell of a run of games. We will find out a lot about this group of players and the manager by the start of december. I actually think the biggest factor in the title race this year will be head to head results.

we really need to tighten it up for that run. Does anyone know our best form xI? Betchha Ole doesn't either. Lingard must surely get a few starts now soon? Pogba really up and down. Shaw and Maguire have been poor. Telles should probably keep his place. Fred Matic Cavnai and Lingard changed that game... do you just keep playing the big names that are getting outplayed and hope it clicks or does form take over the thinking at any point? Dalot (his delivery more so) might get better if he's given a few more games...that could be a weapon. Its confusing!

 

[Ole's screen]

I don't know if I've ever felt so happy and so depressed at the same time. I think I might actually just explode. So delighted to win & with the last kick of the game to save our CL campaign too. So depressed because Ole is the most clueless manager to ever have the United job & you could write a book on the most blatant basic mistakes he makes every single game. We play that game 10 times and we probably lose it 8 or 9 times.

The problem is we keep playing that same game and we keep pulling shit like this out. Something has to give. Either our performances improve and this just turns out like a phase where we played shit and kept hanging around, or our luck runs out and Ole gets fired.

 

[Jezpeza]

100% agree. I think the whole ‘can Bruno and Pogba play together’ debate needs to putting to bed. They can’t. Not against teams like this anyway. There’s no balance to the team at all when they both basically have a free role whenever they play.. leaves massive gaps in the team.

Hoping Pogba is on the bench at the weekend so we have two proper wide players in Sancho and Greenwood on the wings, and Bruno at 10 doing what he does best.

I think the problem is pogba will leave. But he doesnt have a huge defensive workrate in terms of tracking back and Neither does bruno or CR. Too many luxury players in there. Against villa all 3 were stood up front demanding the ball while we couldnt play through the press.

 

[arthurka]

My post was just before the Cavani chance

Not that I don't agree with you, it was a shit game and Villareal deserved more.

 

[MichaelRed]

The problem is we keep playing that same game and we keep pulling shit like this out. Something has to give. Either our performances improve and this just turns out like a phase where we played shit and kept hanging around, or our luck runs out and Ole gets fired.

We're 5 points down in the league from last season's fixtures already. The luck is running out but it's going to be a painful and drawn out process because we have so many world class players that we will slowly eek out job-saving performances.

 

[Van Piorsing]

We cannot defend to save our lives.

We’re wide open in midfield.

We’re barely creative in attack relying on individual brilliance.

No idea what the plan is but it’s sure as hell no working.

Though we were going 4-3-3 for a start but are we hamstrung trying to fit Brunokn then?

This is exactly why Good Ebening lost today, he looked between confused and constipated at the same time at the end of the game.

Ole's football was unpredictable and Emery had no idea why, when or what...

 

[mancan92]

It's a joke really just 11 guys on the pitch. No idea what we do in training.

 

[Amadaeus]

I dont think Ole would get sacked anyway until the end of the season, regardless of what we do in the league and cups (outside of being in the relegation places after Christmas, which shouldnt happen i hope).

This shit is here to stay until the end of the season at least.

Ole has an amazing team. There is no way he capitulate with it, which will lead him to get sacked. The only way he will get sacked is if we improve our standards and make it the standards of top clubs, where trophies and challenging or winning the league are priority.

Ole would have been sacked when he went out of the champion league last season at most top club. At United, we decided to keep him. I don't see Ole being sacked unless he somehow looses the dressing room or our standards changes.

 

[BorisManUtd]

All I'm going to say is this -

From 16th Oct - 30th Nov - Leicester (A), Atalanta, Liverpool, Spurs (A), Atalanta (A), Man City, Watford (A), Villareal (A), Chelsea (A) and Arsenal.

The time for "middling it" isn't acceptable anymore.

Nothing less than a convincing UCL group progression + coming out of that run as legitimate title challengers WITH a strong, cohesive play from the team. Nothing less.

No "just scraped through UCL group stages", none of this "still in the Top 4" or "look at other teams, we're not doing too badly".

Our whole season depends on that run. I'm not confident at all.

 

[RedorDead21]

We cannot defend to save our lives.

We’re wide open in midfield.

We’re barely creative in attack relying on individual brilliance.

No idea what the plan is but it’s sure as hell no working.

Though we were going 4-3-3 for a start but are we hamstrung trying to fit Brunokn then?

it’s like 3 passes it all it takes for a
Team to be in behind our defence. It takes us about 5 mins and 30 passes. It’s so very odd and it’s the same with 2 holdings mids in there.

 

[emperortan]

Any new coach would immediately disassemble this team and want "his" players in. I don't think Ole's up to it, but I do think our structural issues make it almost impossible for a proper coach to succeed. I think this is our ceiling until those issues are fixed.

It's not the case with 2nd most valueable squad in the world. We don't need vast changes no matter who's in charge of manager.

 

[mancan92]

As I said in another thread, our entire tactical problems currently seem to come from the fact Ole has absolutely no clue about how to use Ronaldo. He just shoehorned him into the team and expected things to work out on their own like with Cavani, except Ronaldo is completely different from Cavani. Cavani still runs, presses and moves around a lot. Ronaldo has been static, barely has it in him to dribble and is mostly now a classic number 9.

Our entire attack has fallen down because other players don't know what to do with Ronaldo. Instead of having a 3 forwards setup upfront who interchange their positions like previously, we now have a classic poacher in the box and the players are trying instead to make ton of crosses and long balls for him. On the few instances Greenwood and Bruno try to shoot on their own. It has become a complete mess upfront. We look so disjointed and unbalanced. Imagine having Ronaldo up top with Pogba in midfield and Bruno playing closer to a second striker than a number 10, you're basically looking forward to playing with 3 players who are pointless without the ball and 2 of them barely even run (Ronaldo and Pogba).

It's not Ronaldo's problem. It's our manager's problem who bought Ronaldo without having a clue about how the team's dynamics will be once he's in the main lineup. He just expected it work on its own. It's the proof Ole is a terrible coach.

We played the same last season so what has that got to do with Ronaldo.?

 

[Mr Anderson]

Horrendous display vs Villarreal. The comparison is chalk and cheese. Villarreal played us off the park and looked far more organised. Emery outdone us again and made it look easy. We just got bloody lucky as usual.

3 years in and no idea what Ole is trying to get us to do. No proper shape, no clear identity. That’s the frustration

 

[Beachryan]

I just really hope we keep the majority of this squad together long enough to see it under a different set of coaches. While there are holes, it's the best it's been since a few years left in Fergie's tenure, it's so far ahead of Moyes or LVG's squads it's not comparable.

Think Ole will be under huge pressure in November after what will be a disasterous run of form, but he'll be given til the spring when we can't qualify for the CL. Any fully functional club would already be planning his replacement, putting out feelers and so forth.

So we'll have Carrick as caretaker at the start of next season before hiring Koeman, probably.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Any new coach would immediately disassemble this team and want "his" players in.

Well there’s a crock of shite right there.

A club that has rebuilt and invested so heavily should only be bringing in someone who rates the squad and has a vision for it with just 1 or 2 additions. We got into this mess allowing managers full autonomy to make full scale changes to the squad until after Mourinho’s 2nd season when we finally saw the light.