We are an awfully coached team

Giant Midget

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Nobody said that, keep on inventing myths about myths.

Not complete 11, but each coach brings in a few key players that they like that their predecessor didn't and similarly don't like some that they did. You're picking Chelsea out under Tuchel, but he's pretty much the exception and that was mostly because the squad had been assembled specifically with his strengths with two young German players recently bought. Pep had to have 2 transfer windows to get his players in, Jose sidelined crucial first team players under LvG like Blind, Schneiderlin, and Schweiny. Ole did the same with crucial Jose players like Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Lukaku etc. Lets not pretend that a new manager coming in midseason automatically changes the fortunes for the better.
Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin being crucial? Schweinsteiger was injured most of his first season, and Schneiderlin was god awful.
 

The Purley King

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It's a joke really just 11 guys on the pitch. No idea what we do in training.
100% correct.
There is fecking zero (0) pattern of play when we are attacking.
The longer we stay with this (despite individual brilliance bailing us out) the longer and harder the fecking will be.

I want ole out yesterday. Not good enough now and never will be
 

Ole's screen

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Well there’s a crock of shite right there.

A club that has rebuilt and invested so heavily should only be bringing in someone who rates the squad and has a vision for it with just 1 or 2 additions. We got into this mess allowing managers full autonomy to make full scale changes to the squad until after Mourinho’s 2nd season when we finally saw the light.
I agree with you. Who do you think at the club is qualified to make this decision? Who do you trust at the club to pick the next guy? Murtough? Fletcher? Arnold?
 

bond19821982

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As I said in another thread, our entire tactical problems currently seem to come from the fact Ole has absolutely no clue about how to use Ronaldo. He just shoehorned him into the team and expected things to work out on their own like with Cavani, except Ronaldo is completely different from Cavani. Cavani still runs, presses and moves around a lot. Ronaldo has been static, barely has it in him to dribble and is mostly now a classic number 9.

Our entire attack has fallen down because other players don't know what to do with Ronaldo. Instead of having a 3 forwards setup upfront who interchange their positions like previously, we now have a classic poacher in the box and the players are trying instead to make ton of crosses and long balls for him. On the few instances Greenwood and Bruno try to shoot on their own. It has become a complete mess upfront. We look so disjointed and unbalanced. Imagine having Ronaldo up top with Pogba in midfield and Bruno playing closer to a second striker than a number 10, you're basically looking forward to playing with 3 players who are pointless without the ball and 2 of them barely even run (Ronaldo and Pogba).

It's not Ronaldo's problem. It's our manager's problem who bought Ronaldo without having a clue about how the team's dynamics will be once he's in the main lineup. He just expected it work on its own. It's the proof Ole is a terrible coach.
Nail on the head. Ole's biggest problem is now Ronaldo and that's not clubs issue. He should just go If he doesn't know how to dominate games. You are given the best player in the world and you look fecking clueless with it.

My heart was boiling when I saw fecking Lingard receiving a cross from the GOAT. Seriously? What more do you want to prove that we are awfully setup ?

It was very clear at half time that we don't have a midfield and they were cutting right through us. He should have subbed Matic and Donny for Bruno and Scott. Then sub in Martial and Cavani later. Instead he stick to his formation and they take the lead. Exactly the way they were threatening in the first half. Again, we waited until 76th minute to bring in Matic and then of all the people, brings Lingard and Fred.

Seriously? People still needs a proof that he is clueless?
 

pocco

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Tonight was his ideal. Late winner. “United way”

I would lay money on the fact there isn’t going to be a single concern about how we fared first half. No internal reviews, no questions, no repercussions - nothing. There never is, or as at least there’s never evidence that there is.
Ole is untouchable for various reasons. We just have to hope some minor miracle happens and this team can drag themselves to major honours because he's going nowhere. It would take a succession of poor results that are practically impossible with this team. And to make him even safer, you have the fact that Woodward is leaving in January and will therefore not rock the boat at all until then. Imo Ole could finish 5th and be safe this year.
 
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I agree with you. Who do you think at the club is qualified to make this decision? Who do you trust at the club to pick the next guy? Murtough? Fletcher? Arnold?
I don’t know any of them, I certainly wouldn’t allow Fergie in on the decision making again though.
Ole’s going nowhere though, because it’s crystal clear our club believes the buying good players every season will be enough, they don’t appear to see the coach as so important.
 

bond19821982

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Bring in Ten Hag and he will just tell how to get the best out of this guy. When we are setup cowardly, this is the best we can expect

This game was a tailor made game for him. With his quick link up play, we could have easily played through their midfield.
 

Mickeza

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Bring in Ten Hag and he will just tell how to get the best out of this guy. When we are setup cowardly, this is the best we can expect

This game was a tailor made game for him. With his quick link up play, we could have easily played through their midfield.
How in the name of feck can anyone watch the first half tonight and say we set up cowardly. Are these just buzz words you guys throw around as part of an “Ole Out” drinking game or something? We played a 4-3-3 with Bruno and Pogba playing ridiculously high and a front 3 of Ronaldo who doesn’t press, Sancho and Greenwood. It was madness. It lacked balance. It was stupid to attempt it without AWB to stop counters. It was far too attacking. We got smashed on the break continuously. What exactly was “cowardly” about it?
 

bond19821982

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How in the name of feck can anyone watch the first half tonight and say we set up cowardly. Are these just buzz words you guys throw around as part of an “Ole Out” drinking game or something? We played a 4-3-3 with Bruno and Pogba playing ridiculously high and a front 3 of Ronaldo who doesn’t press, Sancho and Greenwood. It was madness. It lacked balance. It was stupid to attempt it without AWB to stop counters. It was far too attacking. We got smashed on the break continuously. What exactly was “cowardly” about it?
Because he doesn't have balls to drop Pogba or Bruno when things aren't going well. He doesn't have the balls to tell Ronaldo to fecking chase the ball. Playing all the star players doesn't automatically make it 433. Trying it is ok, but when you know it's not working, not changing the star players is a cowardly approach.
 

Mickeza

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Because he doesn't have balls to drop Pogba or Bruno when things aren't going well. He doesn't have the balls to tell Ronaldo to fecking chase the ball. Playing all the star players doesn't automatically make it 433. Trying it is ok, but when you know it's not working, not changing the star players is a cowardly approach.
He literally brought Pogba off in this game. Like about 2 hours ago. He’s also dropped Pogba numerous times. Nothing you’re talking about is cowardly in the slightest. How we set up tonight was naive - it wasn’t cowardly.
 

LawmanMan

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Ole playing with Emery like the wily old fox he is.

He knew sinking the Yellow Submarine with virtually the last kick of the game would make it all the more satisfying!
 

MackRobinson

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Mourinho had a disastrous season at Chelsea before joining us and LVG had a lot of failure in his career prior to United, so yeah, my advice still stands, try and watch some football outside United to know football works.
Yet you defended Mourinho almost until the end :rolleyes:
 

sp_107

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------------------------------------Cavani--------------------------------

-------Ronaldo-----------------Bruno------------------Lingard---------

------------------Pogba------------------McTominay------------------------


O|R


------------------------------------Cavani--------------------------------

-------Ronaldo------------Lingard------------------------Greenwood

------------------Bruno--------------------McTominay----------------------

Does it work? On form basis and work ethic levels I think Lingard should get a run of games
 

MichaelRed

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------------------------------------Cavani--------------------------------

-------Ronaldo-----------------Bruno------------------Lingard---------

------------------Pogba------------------McTominay------------------------


O|R


------------------------------------Cavani--------------------------------

-------Ronaldo------------Lingard------------------------Greenwood

------------------Bruno--------------------McTominay----------------------

Does it work? On form basis and work ethic levels I think Lingard should get a run of games
You should watch the game we just played against Villarreal.
 

AndyMUFC

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Ole has done a good job but yeah, the lack of a pattern of play is a weird one and bringing in Ronaldo has made it more obvious than before.
 

croadyman

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Bring in Ten Hag and he will just tell how to get the best out of this guy. When we are setup cowardly, this is the best we can expect

This game was a tailor made game for him. With his quick link up play, we could have easily played through their midfield.
I have a feeling that Spurs could well take him when Nuno is sacked and he will get them back up there again, really hope he then doesn't also take Donny take off our hands and show him what we could have seen if given a proper chance.
 

croadyman

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I don’t know any of them, I certainly wouldn’t allow Fergie in on the decision making again though.
Ole’s going nowhere though, because it’s crystal clear our club believes the buying good players every season will be enough, they don’t appear to see the coach as so important.
Yeah you get the distinct impression that no one in the decision making team sees bringing in a manager who can actually coach the players as remotely important and that is one terrifying thought to say the least
 

edcunited1878

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Thus far, the shape of the team is worse than last season. It's concerning. It starts and ends with central midfield.

Matic is the most well rounded central midfielder at the club even if he's the least mobile. Twice he's come on as a sub and help settle the team when they were chasing a winner (e.g. West Ham and Villareal).

United did play a more 433 variation tonight, with Pogba being the highest central midfielder with McTominay the lowest and Bruno floating around, but not as high as Pogba. But the distances between the players, knowing you only have two players in the middle, make the shape of the team soft. Therefore, it was too easy for Villareal to hit one or two passes to get through the midfield and connect with their forwards.

It improved in the second half, as did the tempo. The subs again paid off and allowing Cavani and Ronaldo to interchange was great to see.
 

Foxbatt

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This is exactly why Good Ebening lost today, he looked between confused and constipated at the same time at the end of the game.

Ole's football was unpredictable and Emery had no idea why, when or what...
It is bleedin obvious that Emery had no idea. Because Ole himself had no idea.
 

Infra-red

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I dont think Ole would get sacked anyway until the end of the season, regardless of what we do in the league and cups (outside of being in the relegation places after Christmas, which shouldnt happen i hope).

This shit is here to stay until the end of the season at least.
This is almost certainly true. That's why, despite sympathising with the views of some people in here, I really think we should all just enjoy this victory.

The season is long and Solskjaer is going to be here for all of it. Next year too, most likely. Find your pleasures where you can - if you cannot take some delight in a last minute CL winner from a club legend, it's probably time to take a step back from the game.

Enjoy tonight - there will be plenty of occasions in the months (possibly years) ahead when you can fill your boots denigrating the manager.
 

Shane88

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Complete mess of a team.

Toss 5 attackers out there every week and hope the poor soul left in midfield sweeps up any mess. Spoiler: They don't.

There was a number of occasions last night where there was a line of 5 across the front and McTominay a lone presence in midfield 20 yards behind.

Clowns on here like me can see this is a disaster. Villareal pouring forward time after time proves it and only De Gea's heroics stopped us getting hockeyed.

Why can't a manager getting paid millions see it? Or one of the dozen coaches we have?
 
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Bring in Ten Hag and he will just tell how to get the best out of this guy. When we are setup cowardly, this is the best we can expect

This game was a tailor made game for him. With his quick link up play, we could have easily played through their midfield.
How you're not manager of a top European side is beyond me.
 

RazorOz

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I wouldn't count on Solskjaer being as secure as people say. You don't bring in Ronaldo for success in the future, you bring in Ronaldo for success now, and he's going to be a big influence in the dressing room/behind the scenes too. Right now it's really hard to see Utd finishing higher than 4th, there is still time to change that of course as our form could pick up, but if we finish a distant 4th and win no trophies I think it will be hard for him to keep the job, it would be really hard to claim that as progress. I think the pressure is on to show a marked improvement, as otherwise serious questions are going to be asked of a team that finished 2nd last year and come close to trophies which then added Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane in the summer.
 

Adnan

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I agree with you. Who do you think at the club is qualified to make this decision? Who do you trust at the club to pick the next guy? Murtough? Fletcher? Arnold?
Isn't there a guy on the transfer commitee that has worked with European Cup winners? Is there people on the transfer committee who worked under Fergie?

I'm sure they'll have a good idea on who to appoint. And the transfer committee was formed in 2018 which gave the clubs newly formed recruitment structure some actual power for the first time post Fergie. The next man in will likely be a head coach and not someone who will manage the recruitment, because we don't need him to manage that side anymore.
 

TheRedHearted

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Nail on the head. Ole's biggest problem is now Ronaldo and that's not clubs issue. He should just go If he doesn't know how to dominate games. You are given the best player in the world and you look fecking clueless with it.

My heart was boiling when I saw fecking Lingard receiving a cross from the GOAT. Seriously? What more do you want to prove that we are awfully setup ?

It was very clear at half time that we don't have a midfield and they were cutting right through us. He should have subbed Matic and Donny for Bruno and Scott. Then sub in Martial and Cavani later. Instead he stick to his formation and they take the lead. Exactly the way they were threatening in the first half. Again, we waited until 76th minute to bring in Matic and then of all the people, brings Lingard and Fred.

Seriously? People still needs a proof that he is clueless?
Lingard had an assist. And if it didn’t go through he honestly was fouled for a penalty. Could we agree on that?
 

bond19821982

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Lingard had an assist. And if it didn’t go through he honestly was fouled for a penalty. Could we agree on that?
Debatable. I don't think it would have been given . Saw that again now.
Still doesn't change anything what I said.
 

bond19821982

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I have a feeling that Spurs could well take him when Nuno is sacked and he will get them back up there again, really hope he then doesn't also take Donny take off our hands and show him what we could have seen if given a proper chance.
Sincerely hope he is waiting for us. Fingers crossed. Can't afford to see him at Spurs or any other English clubs.
 

Ole's screen

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Sincerely hope he is waiting for us. Fingers crossed. Can't afford to see him at Spurs or any other English clubs.
Managers don't wait for clubs, especially not clubs like United who seem to be backing the Ole horse til death. If he didn't get fired during that horror run in early 2019-20 season he's definitely not getting fired anytime soon.
 

Jackal981

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Anyone has a screen capture of our shit formation in the game when all of our attacking players line up in the straight line and stand still ? I remember ronaldo pogba bruno sancho and greenwood standing static in a straight line when mctominay was alone in the midfield
 

Adnan

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Below is a article from the Liverpool press from 2019, which gives some detail on how Liverpool's transfer committee went from being a laughing stock to the envy of Europe. And the issue the transfer committee had, which was led by Michael Edwards with Barry Hunter and Dave Fallows as the chief scouts, was that their efforts were being undermined by Brendan Rodgers who FSG had given considerable control to. So the lines of communication between both the coaching staff and recruitment staff became non existent with both groups having different strategies when it came to recruitment.

So FSG backed both groups and Rodgers was granted his wish of signing Christian Benteke for a considerable sum in the summer of 2015. And FSG also backed the transfer committee in their data driven approach and went ahead and bought Roberto Firminho in the same summer. Rodgers eventually got the sack and Klopp came in and opened the lines of communication with the Transfer committee and relied on Edwards and his team to provide him with the help he needed when it comes to recruiting the correct players.

Klopp was a head coach who was accustomed to working with a recruitment department who controlled who comes and who goes. And it was normal for him to embrace Liverpool's recruitment structure which not only relied on scouting but was also data driven.

I think there's some parallels to be drawn between us and them.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...w-liverpools-transfer-committee-went-16479508
 
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dabeast

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Anyone has a screen capture of our shit formation in the game when all of our attacking players line up in the straight line and stand still ? I remember ronaldo pogba bruno sancho and greenwood standing static in a straight line when mctominay was alone in the midfield
We tried to play 4-3-3 against Villareal but it became us trying to play 2-3-5 in possession with our CAMs (Pogba and Fernandes) injecting themselves inbetween the ST (Ronaldo) and the wing-forwards (Greenwood, Sancho) and the FBs pushing up into midfield either side of McTominay. Interestingly, the night before, City played a superficially similar 2-3-5 formation at PSG. City's wingers kept playing short balls behind the defensive line for Sterling (playing ST) and the CAMs (De Bruyne and Bernardo Silva) to make sharp runs onto as did United's wingers playing short balls for Utd's CAMs and ST. In addition, like Sancho and Greenwood, the wing-forwards of City (Mahrez and Grealish) kept trying to dribble past the opposing fullbacks and make inroads towards the centre.

There was a huge difference, though. City was able to be patient and possess the ball and created many chances (they had an xG advantage away at PSG even though they lost 2-0). Utd, OTOH, couldn't hold the ball, the short-ball runs were blunt, not sharp, and the wing-forwards had no joy against the opposing FBs. Because Utd wasn't patient and kept losing the ball, the counter-attacks kept coming back at them but, luckily for Utd, because Villareal didn't have a strike-force they scored only 1 goal, way below their xG, as compared with PSG who outperformed their xG by scoring 2 with MNM. Utd were bailed out by a (lucky) set-piece goal by Telles and a scramble at the end by clutch Ronaldo (and because Villareal are not PSG) but never looked like they understood their roles in the system.

The problem with Utd (after 2 years and 10 months of Ole) is that we still don't look like we understand tactical football. We have 3 inexperienced-at-the-top-level coaches (Ole, McKenna and Carrick) who keep changing the system with little advantage. We can use individual brilliance to out-attack wide-open systems (a la Leeds) but are ineffective attacking the low-block. We look defensively dicey in systems with 5 attackers and 5 defenders like a 4-3-3 and in a 3-5-2 (or 3-5-1 against Young Boys) and can only seem secure in systems with 4 attackers and 6 defenders like the double-pivots of our usual McFred 4-2-3-1 and 4-2-2-2 (with Pogba as a LF who comes inside).

Individual brilliance (Lingard at West Ham, Ronaldo at Villareal) will get us through some games against teams with worse players (like Villareal) but we will fall at the first sign of a cohesive team with good players. Also, this reliance on individual attacking brilliance (or "expression") has tactical costs. Ronaldo just walked around when Villareal had the ball. This meant that the Villareal GK and CBs would (very funnily) just hold the ball for huge amounts of time while playing out safe in the belief that Ronaldo wasn't going to bother them. This time afforded Villareal's CMs to get free of their markers in midfield and show for a leisurely-made pass that immediately split our press.

Once split, their wingers ate up our FBs (second-choice but part of our "great" 2-eleven squad). When Varane went walkabout into midfield to try and get the ball in the second-half but missed, the ball went out against Dalot who failed to challenge Danjuma and Lindelof failed to challenge the feared Alcacer. On the other side, Telles kept showing Yeremy Pino inside and, yet, failed to make a challenge when Pino shot.

We got EXTREMELY lucky against Villareal yesterday. If DDG had even had a normal game we would have lost by 3. I used to think we needed a DM but McTominay actually played fine yesterday. Our main problem is that we don't understand and can't play tactical football. Until that is fixed we will never win the PL or CL.
 

ExoduS

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What if our problem is that our players just don't want to play together? The group of players we have should really play well without a coach. It is either that we have some sort of issues within the team or that everyone crumbles under pressure cause they are afraid to f up. Two UCL games and in both we were dominated. Embarrassing.

I am really struggling to find a reason why we struggle so much. Coach? I mean this is the same coach who beat Chelsea, Manchester City and Liverpool last year. There is freaking whole team behind Ole... 5 of these guys don't know how to set up basic tactics to pass a football around a pitch so we don't give it to opposing player after 2 completed passes: https://assets.manutd.com/AssetPick...84758AA6144CB62563D6C025E4A01545399534573.jpg

We have faced same issues under every coach thus far: Being slow, being passive, looking uninspired and total lack of football creativity. Actually that Bruno pass to Telles today... Not sure where that came from, but it is a sweet cherry on top of a turd.

Maybe we don't need a coach at all. Maybe too much tactics is the problem but not lack of tactics. Sometimes you just need to play football out there... Freely.

All right, I am going to sleep. Had a few beers as you probably can tell.
 

wise_old_man

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Below is a article from the Liverpool press from 2019, which gives some detail on how Liverpool's transfer committee went from being a laughing stock to the envy of Europe. And the issue the transfer committee had, which was led by Michael Edwards with Barry Hunter and Dave Fallows as the chief scouts, was that their efforts were being undermined by Brendan Rodgers who FSG had given considerable control to. So the lines of communication between both the coaching staff and recruitment staff became non existent with both groups having different strategies when it comes to recruitment.

So FSG backed both groups and Rodgers was granted his wish of signing Christian Benteke for a considerable sum in the summer of 2015. And FSG also backed the transfer committee in their data driven approach and went ahead and bought Roberto Firminho in the same summer. Rodgers eventually got the sack and Klopp came in and opened the lines of communication with the Transfer committee and relied on Edwards and his team to provide him with the help he needed when it comes to recruiting the correct players.

Klopp was a head coach who was accustomed to working with a recruitment department who controlled who comes and who goes. And it was normal for him to embrace Liverpool's recruitment structure which not only relied on scouting but was also data driven.

I think there's some parallels to be drawn between us and them.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...w-liverpools-transfer-committee-went-16479508
Liverpool and Leicester's scouting team must be the best in England. £8 million for Andy Robertson was just pure madness. As for Leicester, don't get me started on Kante, Vardy and Ndidi.
 

WR10

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When all your attacking players except for 1 CDM line up in a straight line along with the opposition's back line you know it's over for a manager.

It's downed tools and a refusal to be involved in whatever 'formation tactic' Ole has set out for that game.