We are an awfully coached team

Judas

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Bruno basically plays as a striker, and that is the biggest issue with our shape. We'll continue to be this bad until we sort this out.
I don't know when or why this started but its infuriating to watch.
 

Kaos

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Out of form teams are probably looking at their calendars for when they face us next to kick start their season.
 

drdoityourself

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It's so basic. No pressing, no style in attack. It's like when I'm playing Championship Manager 1997, just pick the team, spend heavily and press play.

Football has moved on from DNA charlatans like this, he isn't qualified for this job. You need more than some stories on how this club is different.
 

thesheriffjw

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The scary thing is, utd have not played one of the so called big 6 yet and its this bad already.

will probably get a result against liverpool and do the usual.

This current form is as bad as it gets. Very poor
 

Yakuza_devils

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Our players need to take so many touches to look/wait for their nearby team mate to make a simple pass. There is no style of play, system, team work, whatsoever.

Even our counter attacking was so disjointed. We usually run out of option to pass forward which slow down the whole bloody counter attack play.
 

Foxbatt

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It DOES take individual brilliance to win us games. The first was a brilliant individual finish by Greenwood and the second was two moves. A good over the top pass from Lindelof and then a very good finish by Rashford to score. Of course we lost the game because Ole took off our only midfield player and put on McTominay. Maybe Matic was too tired but surely in a game where we need to control a midfield you put on someone like DVB who can move the ball and not someone like McTominay?
Puppets the whole lot of them. They are laughing all the way to the bank.
 

Okey

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One of the most infuriating things is when our forwards get the ball. The default (if not only) plan seems to be to run with it and try to do something brilliant. Of course they tend to lose it quickly cos that's not how football is played at the top level. And we just rinse and repeat and on it goes. There's only so many worldies you can conjure playing that way.
 

DreadnoughtRS88

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I remember reading through this topic a couple of weeks ago and seeing quite a few people not only unwilling to accept we are the worst coached team in the league but also laughing at those who think this way and questioning if they are real fans or not. Well, you must be feeling very foolish now. Remember when you posted videos of some of the best players in the world stringing 5 passes together and saying: look, this has Ole/Carrick/Phelan/McKenna written all over it, coaching is not the problem. What absolute tosh!

Today was yet another in the long line of examples of how clueless the manager is and how pathetic our set up is. Are you fellas aware that we, Manchester United Football Club, are a decade behind in principles of play, patterns and strategies to the likes of Brentford and Brighton? Let's not even mention the likes of City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester. Even Arsenal are ahead of us, but are lagging due to a slower team development and not as good quality of players.

I am ashamed watching United and find no joy in us winning as it only delays the correct decision - sacking the Ole Ole Ole I love you and his mates, and employing a proper manager. By proper, I don't even mean top class, just someone who knows first thing about it.

Absolute shocker. Sir Alex should have a word with Ole and tell him to gracefully pack his stuff and leave. If that doesn't work, then hopefully Fletcher has some influence in the backstage and can convince the owners and money-oriented board the clown that is Ole needs to go - now!
 

NZT-One

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It DOES take individual brilliance to win us games. The first was a brilliant individual finish by Greenwood and the second was two moves. A good over the top pass from Lindelof and then a very good finish by Rashford to score. Of course we lost the game because Ole took off our only midfield player and put on McTominay. Maybe Matic was too tired but surely in a game where we need to control a midfield you put on someone like DVB who can move the ball and not someone like McTominay?
Puppets the whole lot of them. They are laughing all the way to the bank.
On Stretford Paddock they were talking about the Matic potentially being some sort of gamble and that they probably wouldn't have subbed him knowing we would score the equalizer. Ifs and buts at the end of the day. I don't think, that this sub had any meaning to be honest. We weren't playing well with Pogba and Matic, don't know if Matic dragged down Pogba or the other way around. Seeing the game, he should have brought on Lingard way earlier to take Tielemans out of the game. Which I somehow expected Bruno to do at least to some degree. Its a shame Cavani wasn't available, maybe switching to a 2 striker system would have changed something.


One of the most infuriating things is when our forwards get the ball. The default (if not only) plan seems to be to run with it and try to do something brilliant. Of course they tend to lose it quickly cos that's not how football is played at the top level. And we just rinse and repeat and on it goes. There's only so many worldies you can conjure playing that way.
There are situations, when one play receives the ball, looks up, dribbles towards a player to then pass it to him... It is infuriating to watch indeed. Just wasting time with no won space whatsoever. But, this unfortunately happens, when your players a) don't have some sort of plan where to be when or b) aren't in form and the same wavelength... Which is the case with Sancho not really acclimatizing to the league and Bruno and Ronaldo sort of struggling a bit.

Our balance is extremely off. Might even consider having Lingard in the starting lineup only for his runs and workrate only. And prayers that Rashford will continue his 2020 edition that was happy to create and facilitate for others (instead of the 2021 edition that was often running into blind alleys).
 

NZT-One

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I remember reading through this topic a couple of weeks ago and seeing quite a few people not only unwilling to accept we are the worst coached team in the league but also laughing at those who think this way and questioning if they are real fans or not. Well, you must be feeling very foolish now. Remember when you posted videos of some of the best players in the world stringing 5 passes together and saying: look, this has Ole/Carrick/Phelan/McKenna written all over it, coaching is not the problem. What absolute tosh!

Today was yet another in the long line of examples of how clueless the manager is and how pathetic our set up is. Are you fellas aware that we, Manchester United Football Club, are a decade behind in principles of play, patterns and strategies to the likes of Brentford and Brighton? Let's not even mention the likes of City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester. Even Arsenal are ahead of us, but are lagging due to a slower team development and not as good quality of players.

I am ashamed watching United and find no joy in us winning as it only delays the correct decision - sacking the Ole Ole Ole I love you and his mates, and employing a proper manager. By proper, I don't even mean top class, just someone who knows first thing about it.

Absolute shocker. Sir Alex should have a word with Ole and tell him to gracefully pack his stuff and leave. If that doesn't work, then hopefully Fletcher has some influence in the backstage and can convince the owners and money-oriented board the clown that is Ole needs to go - now!
Such emotion driven things led us to where we are. There is absolute nothing to be gained with just abandoning the ship in a storm. The smart and responsible thing for the club to do is work on solutions, evaluate candidates, making contacts, talk about somewhat of a 3-5 year plan. The club should be ready to change things if Ole doesn't come out successfull from these adversities but just getting rid to take a manager that might be available right now is shortthinking and exactly the thing, we should avoid.
 

DreadnoughtRS88

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Such emotion driven things led us to where we are. There is absolute nothing to be gained with just abandoning the ship in a storm. The smart and responsible thing for the club to do is work on solutions, evaluate candidates, making contacts, talk about somewhat of a 3-5 year plan. The club should be ready to change things if Ole doesn't come out successfull from these adversities but just getting rid to take a manager that might be available right now is shortthinking and exactly the thing, we should avoid.
Emotion-driven things? Emotion is what's keeping the incompetent pretender in the job in the first place. It's what got him the job. So, you are defending the manager who's in the job on emotion and pity by having a go at my emotionality? Bra-vo.

It appears you are questioning my emotional attitude and ability to see the big picture, but it is your stance that is the problem - it's inertia, let's see what happens, maybe he turns it around, let's wait until the end of the season and the most ridiculous of all - play Lingard in the starting XI (?!). Rubbish. He cannot possibly turn it around, he will not learn how to coach overnight, he's been here for three years and I still cannot put my finger on a single pattern of play and say: oh here it is, we did it a couple of weeks ago as well, and a month ago when we scored that goal, or created that opening, etc. Look at our goals this season - nothing to do with the manager or coaches. If you put a laptop in the dressing room and teach Cortana a few football terms, it would have the same effect on the tactics and strategy.

Wake up, we are Manchester United, we can't stand for this. We sacked behemoths like Mourinho, van Gaal, even Moyes is a managerial giant compared to Ole, all of them ruthlessly, and suddenly you want us to wait on this fella? Chelsea sacked Lampard and won the CL in a few months and are now challenging for the title.
 
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Foxbatt

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Such emotion driven things led us to where we are. There is absolute nothing to be gained with just abandoning the ship in a storm. The smart and responsible thing for the club to do is work on solutions, evaluate candidates, making contacts, talk about somewhat of a 3-5 year plan. The club should be ready to change things if Ole doesn't come out successfull from these adversities but just getting rid to take a manager that might be available right now is shortthinking and exactly the thing, we should avoid.
do you really think he is going to win the PL or the CL?
 

NZT-One

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Emotion-driven things? Emotion is what's keeping the incompetent pretender in the job in the first place. It's what got him the job. So, you are defending the manager who's in the job on emotion and pity by having a go at my emotionality? Bra-vo.

It appears you are questioning my emotional attitude and ability to see the big picture, but it is your stance that is the problem - it's inertia, let's see what happens, maybe he turns it around, let's wait until the end of the season and the most ridiculous of all - play Lingard in the starting XI (?!). Rubbish. He cannot possibly turn it around, he will not learn how to coach overnight, he's been here for three years and I still cannot put my finger on a single pattern of play and say: oh here it is, we did it a couple of weeks ago as well, and a month ago when we scored that goal, or created that opening, etc. Look at our goals this season - nothing to do with the manager or coaches. If you put a laptop in the dressing room and teach Cortana a few football terms, it would have the same effect on the tactics and strategy.

Wake up, we are Manchester United, we can't stand for this. We sacked behemoths like Mourinho, van Gaal, even Moyes is a managerial giant compared to Ole, all of them ruthlessly, and suddenly you want us to wait on this fella? Chelsea sacked Lampard and won the CL in a few months and are now challenging for the title.
Bla bla bla... This is just the other side of the "Top Red" coin. As you are saying it correctly, emotions got him the job. But now getting him out there without a real plan would be just repeating that mistake by again being emotion driven. BRA-VO. Two mistakes don't necessarily result in correcting the first one.

If you would know me, you would be quite aware, that I am critical of Ole since my first days of that platform. I was critical when it wasn't as easy as it is today or as easy as in the last few weeks. So maybe don't judge stuff that you don't know, it only results in unnecessary dialogues like this one.

As I said: the club needs to act now. Start preparations, evaluate candidates, find the perfect one, check availabilities, check if ideas align. Just jumping the ship because we are scared of losing out is what got us Mourinho after LVG. Some people have learned the lessons, others seemingly will take a little longer.
 

Rightnr

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Such emotion driven things led us to where we are. There is absolute nothing to be gained with just abandoning the ship in a storm. The smart and responsible thing for the club to do is work on solutions, evaluate candidates, making contacts, talk about somewhat of a 3-5 year plan. The club should be ready to change things if Ole doesn't come out successfull from these adversities but just getting rid to take a manager that might be available right now is shortthinking and exactly the thing, we should avoid.
He hasn't been successful in 3 years. That's all you need to know to make up your mind, so stop using made-up logic to defend what is one of the worst managers we've ever had, as compared to his peers.
 

NZT-One

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do you really think he is going to win the PL or the CL?
Of course I don't. Come on mate, you know my stance about that. But still, what Ole has done is worth to not be risked entirely by bringing in another manager just for the sake of it just because the results took a down turn. We need a plan. If we have one, fine, jump the ship but do you really think, we have a good one? I don't. So as a club, I figure out a plan and align everything in silent efficiency. Not by jumping the gun because of bad loss against Leicester on the 16th of october. Reactions like that got him the permanent job prematurely - do you really want to continue that proud tradition? I for sure don't.
 
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Sviken

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Bla bla bla... This is just the other side of the "Top Red" coin. As you are saying it correctly, emotions got him the job. But now getting him out there without a real plan would be just repeating that mistake by again being emotion driven. BRA-VO. Two mistakes don't necessarily result in correcting the first one.

If you would know me, you would be quite aware, that I am critical of Ole since my first days of that platform. I was critical when it wasn't as easy as it is today or as easy as in the last few weeks. So maybe don't judge stuff that you don't know, it only results in unnecessary dialogues like this one.

As I said: the club needs to act now. Start preparations, evaluate candidates, find the perfect one, check availabilities, check if ideas align. Just jumping the ship because we are scared of losing out is what got us Mourinho after LVG. Some people have learned the lessons, others seemingly will take a little longer.
There is a real and simple plan - get a top manager and coaching staff. You're arguing like we're trying to replace Pep Guardiola. It's fecking Ole. The guy who relegated Cardiff. This is not rocket science
 

NZT-One

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There is a real and simple plan - get a top manager and coaching staff. You're arguing like we're trying to replace Pep Guardiola. It's fecking Ole. The guy who relegated Cardiff. This is not rocket science
Yeah maybe you email Ed the list of guaranteed top managers and coaching stuff so he can act swiftly. I am not bigging up Ole but I, seemingly not like a few of you, don't want to waste even more time than necessary to bring glory back to Man United. And what has the better odds - make a plan, identify a manager whose ideas align with the decision makers in our club and act efficient or jumping the ship to Conte or Zidane who obviously are better than Ole now, but not necessarily in the mid- to longterm?
 

Sviken

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Yeah maybe you email Ed the list of guaranteed top managers and coaching stuff so he can act swiftly. I am not bigging up Ole but I, seemingly not like a few of you, don't want to waste even more time than necessary to bring glory back to Man United. And what has the better odds - make a plan, identify a manager whose ideas align with the decision makers in our club and act efficient or jumping the ship to Conte or Zidane who obviously are better than Ole now, but not necessarily in the mid- to longterm?
I can name you two that are available that would instantly improve us a million times over. They'd also get rid of the clowns Ole brought from Molde and Cardiff, including McKenna and Carrick who obviously have no idea what they're doing. So yeah, I can surely mail Ed what he should do, the problem is he is too stupid to do anything about it. What person in their right mind gives Ole a 3 years contract for no reason? Not only that but apparently doubling down this season by offering Phelan a contract (despite none of us actually knowing what he does) and apparently McKenna and Carrick are up for extension. I mean this is just a joke, no matter how much you spin it.

Who the feck cares about mid to long-term. What is this obsession with long-term? We're never getting another SAF or Busby, not in the coming decades at least, so what's the point of even trying? If Conte and Zidane come, win us a couple of trophies, the PL and maybe the CL, that would leave us in a perfect position for another great manager to take over. If we continue to stick by Ole, and we fail miserably, as we surely would, then we're right back to square one when Moyes left. Our players are not a bunch of wonderkids, most of them are in their 28-30 years old range, they are in the prime. If we fail to capitalize on this now by sticking with a manager who is horribly out of his depth, then I'd fear we're going to start entering a so called "Dark Ages" period where we join Arsenal in struggling for an Europa League finish while the oil clubs vie for the title.
 

Womp

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He is so far from being good enough it's worrying, some of us have seen this for some time now. I hoped some of us learnt our lesson with Jose (I certainly did)

It doesn't take years and ridiculous spending to get a team playing some progressive football that you can place your faith in
 

Red00012

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If ole is sacked the rest of his staff can go as well . The only one I might keep is McKenna .
 

Daengophile

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Coaching....

I'm struggling to see a positive impact from any of the rookies we have. With the possible exception of goal keeper
 

izak

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This thread should be "We are the worst team in the League" when you look at the caliber of players we've got, whom are all on very high wages and the amount of Money Ole has spent in the summer not to mention the fact that we are playing like a bunch of individuals not as a team you would surely you'll agree that the thread title should change.
 

Smores

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We've never fixed recurring issues and this season it feels like more have sprung up.

Our fullbacks repeatedly and have for sometime caused us to be susceptible to the break. For what gain is my confusion as they rarely offer threat. At times it's likes the wide player and the full back are confused about where each other should be.

Our time spent dawdling on the ball is pathetic and outside a couple of games has never been corrected. There's just no excuse for it, quick pass and move doesn't need a star team it's something any decently coached team can implement.

Bruno either ignores the instructions of the coaching staff or they're telling him to stay high. Neither reflect well on the manager.
 

shahzy

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I don't know when or why this started but its infuriating to watch.
It wasn't the case when he started here. I noticed it more and more in his second season and towards the midway point of last season it was so annoying hearing people blame Pogba when his "midfield" partner was parading as a striker. This all stems on Ole. He has no rules, no structure. Bruno is just doing what he thinks will win united a game of football by trying to get into positions to score a goal. All stems from a manager who says "go out there and play"
 

Foxbatt

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How I missed the lamp post now. At least he is very effective when the ball is in the air.
 

hungrywing

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One thing I've pondered is if the staff really are that bad, then the players, who have access to other resources - in addition to their own know-how - should(?) be able to cobble together enough insight to at least not look this bad. Not full blown conspiracy and mutiny, of course.

We've never fixed recurring issues and this season it feels like more have sprung up.

Our fullbacks repeatedly and have for sometime caused us to be susceptible to the break. For what gain is my confusion as they rarely offer threat. At times it's likes the wide player and the full back are confused about where each other should be.

Our time spent dawdling on the ball is pathetic and outside a couple of games has never been corrected. There's just no excuse for it, quick pass and move doesn't need a star team it's something any decently coached team can implement.

Bruno either ignores the instructions of the coaching staff or they're telling him to stay high. Neither reflect well on the manager.
It could be eye-opening if a caf-resident stats-genius did maybe even a simple count comparison of how many one-twos we played per game back then and now (and who moved where to cover the space/man vacated by the penetrator). Or how many speculative crosses Neville sent in from deep to capitalize on the general disarray following whatever initial clearance. How many times our wingers simply dribbled to try and pick up a foul in or around the box instead of just recycling to the fullback while the defense settles ninety-eight thousand forty-leven times a game.

We also might end up needing to pay for said stats-genius' therapy after she/he returns catastrophically depressing results.
 

DreadnoughtRS88

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Bla bla bla... This is just the other side of the "Top Red" coin. As you are saying it correctly, emotions got him the job. But now getting him out there without a real plan would be just repeating that mistake by again being emotion driven. BRA-VO. Two mistakes don't necessarily result in correcting the first one.

If you would know me, you would be quite aware, that I am critical of Ole since my first days of that platform. I was critical when it wasn't as easy as it is today or as easy as in the last few weeks. So maybe don't judge stuff that you don't know, it only results in unnecessary dialogues like this one.

As I said: the club needs to act now. Start preparations, evaluate candidates, find the perfect one, check availabilities, check if ideas align. Just jumping the ship because we are scared of losing out is what got us Mourinho after LVG. Some people have learned the lessons, others seemingly will take a little longer.
It's time to take a break, mate. Just get a good a strong breakfast, then come back here and read your bla-bla posts, they are getting quoted a lot.

Who's to say we don't already have a contingency plan? We should be evaluating all the time. For all the club's ineptitude and inertness, and a misplaced focus on the first official intimate trimmer of Manchester United, there must be a department or an individual there somewhere who recognises we have the worst manager in the league and that a shortlist of potential replacements needs readying.

You say 'start preparations, evaluate candidates'... Blimey, you really think the preparations should only be beginning? Take your time, mate, let's wait out until Pep and Klopp have retired, then we act! Let's do a Leicester and win the league when no-one is watching. By that time maybe Ole learns some exciting new stuff called organised pressing, pressing triggers, patterns of play, third-man run, underlap, etc., none of which can be seen regularly since 2018. One thing is for sure - I would still like a dialogue with you even then, it's a good laugh.
 

thesheriffjw

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I find it amazing how many people still back ole on here. Hes had 3 years

In that 3 years, utd have cried out for a proper holding midfielder, but has persevered with mcTom, fred(not good enough) and matic(too old and cumbersome)

For that reason alone, people should see that he is not up to the job

Sentiments mean nothing in a trophy focussed sport
 

AneRu

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Of course I don't. Come on mate, you know my stance about that. But still, what Ole has done is worth to not be risked entirely by bringing in another manager just for the sake of it just because the results took a down turn. We need a plan. If we have one, fine, jump the ship but do you really think, we have a good one? I don't. So as a club, I figure out a plan and align everything in silent efficiency. Not by jumping the gun because of bad loss against Leicester on the 16th of october. Reactions like that got him the permanent job prematurely - do you really want to continue that proud tradition? I for sure don't.
The season is going down the drain, what you are suggesting is akin to a surgeon calling for cool heads to map out a game plan whilst the patient, with an arterial bleed, is bleeding out on the table. If we lose the next four games then our season is over and we restart in the summer having lost a couple of good players in need of a manager and another rebuild, doing all that from a position of weakness.

We desperately need this season to end on a high note, we need to salvage it. We can't allow what happened with Moyes and LVG to play out again where a season is wasted on a hopeless manager and then go another multi-window rebuild.
 

R'hllor

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Its funny, from mocking the whole pattern of plays comments, to being smug when individual brilliance wins a game, at the end of the day, its not that we are bad at playing football, we are not even trying to, no attempts towards some style, peformances are piss poor most often than not, when you watch us, people wondering what are we doing on a training pitch etc.
 

NZT-One

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It's time to take a break, mate. Just get a good a strong breakfast, then come back here and read your bla-bla posts, they are getting quoted a lot.

Who's to say we don't already have a contingency plan? We should be evaluating all the time. For all the club's ineptitude and inertness, and a misplaced focus on the first official intimate trimmer of Manchester United, there must be a department or an individual there somewhere who recognises we have the worst manager in the league and that a shortlist of potential replacements needs readying.

You say 'start preparations, evaluate candidates'... Blimey, you really think the preparations should only be beginning? Take your time, mate, let's wait out until Pep and Klopp have retired, then we act! Let's do a Leicester and win the league when no-one is watching. By that time maybe Ole learns some exciting new stuff called organised pressing, pressing triggers, patterns of play, third-man run, underlap, etc., none of which can be seen regularly since 2018. One thing is for sure - I would still like a dialogue with you even then, it's a good laugh.
Irony is for winner types, you don't strike me as one.

Maybe I'll try again to explain my stance: you are right, we should have a contingency plan. We should have started to evaluate, started to prepare. All correct - but do you really think we did that? Do you really think, Ed and Murtough are ready for that?
Because if not - it changes the situation. As I stated already, if there is a good plan then now is the time to execute it. But if there isn't a plan, then we have to create one now. Because if we don't and we feel pressured to act we might end with another premature emotion driven decision. The kind of decision based on no existent plan that got us Mourinho after LVG. And that gave the permanent manager to Ole before there was the actual need to. I am sure you remember, the kind of decisions we wanted to avoid in the future.

I am not defending Ole, far from it. But I want the best for the club and if that means sticking to Ole for the rest of the season to then switch to a great candidate who is available then instead of now jumping to Conte, who first and foremost is in the mix because he is availabe, then I know which one to pick.

The season is going down the drain, what you are suggesting is akin to a surgeon calling for cool heads to map out a game plan whilst the patient, with an arterial bleed, is bleeding out on the table. If we lose the next four games then our season is over and we restart in the summer having lost a couple of good players in need of a manager and another rebuild, doing all that from a position of weakness.

We desperately need this season to end on a high note, we need to salvage it. We can't allow what happened with Moyes and LVG to play out again where a season is wasted on a hopeless manager and then go another multi-window rebuild.
To be honest, even if I understand from where you are coming from, I don't perceive the urgency like you do. This squad is capable of challenging but it isn't guaranteed a title. No matter which manager comes in, there is no guarantee. Therefor it doesn't matter to me how this season pans out if the groundwork is layed for the future instead. I don't know which player you mean, who could leave - Pogba maybe? I am happy to see him leave. Who else could go? I don't see anybody. And we don't need another rebuilt because the last rebuilt hasn't really been finished in my eyes as long as we didn't adress the midfield situation. Therefor I don't see the need to act asap, to be perfectly honest, I think the chance that it will hurt us are potentially even bigger. Who is the fan favorite now? It is Conte, do we want to give Conte 1,5 or 2,5 years from now on? Even if we don't know, what his vision for the club would be? Which players he would plan with? If the plans would align to the plans of the club? If we evaluated the situation, interviewed Conte behind the scenes, synchronized plans silently - then fine, execute the plan now. If not, do the fecking work now. The club decided to stick with Ole, we shouldn't allow the club to cut his losses by just presenting the first available big name manager without any preparation.

The outlook of the season is what it is. Tuchel-situations are the exception not the norm. The odds are way better for the club if the time now is used to plan and prepare. Plus I'd argue, that some issues of our squad go deeper than to be rectified within a few weeks of training. Greenwood is a striker, to transform him into a hardworking winger will be close to impossible. Sanchos introduction to PL - will the manager just fast-forward that? Unlikely, wouldn't you agree? Will a new manager change Ronaldo or Pogba?

I am totally for accepting that change is necessary. But do it smart. I couldn't care less if that means that Ronaldos time here is wasted then, the club comes first. And no manager will just turn us into a monster team that is immediatly ready to just compensate such a player. I don't want to say, that this is the only way to see the situation. But for all the talk of not wanting to repeat mistakes, I would see it as a big mistake to just jump the gun now because the situation is really dire for 4 weeks. It all boils down if there is good plan ready to be executed. If it isn't - do it now. If there is a plan, then great, execute it now.
 

ShinjiNinja26

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
6,035
Location
Location, Location
We’re fecking terrible. Getting tactically outclassed every time we come up against any half decent side, and looking at our next 7-8 games things could get very ugly.
 

Sandikan

aka sex on the beach
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
43,171
Pretending that season was good and Jose only went into self sabotage mode after the summer :lol: lovely rewriting of history. We finished 2nd, god knows how, a sign of the shite level of the league that season. We were turgid to watch, and the atmosphere was miserable. Anyone reminiscing positively about that season are weirdos.
We still have fans who reckon Moyes should have got more time, and that he was left some sort of non league level squad from Fergie.
So i'm not surprised people are forgetting the misery of a lot of the Jose time.

They'll be saying the Van Gaal footy was entertaining next.
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
15,911
I find it amazing how many people still back ole on here. Hes had 3 years

In that 3 years, utd have cried out for a proper holding midfielder, but has persevered with mcTom, fred(not good enough) and matic(too old and cumbersome)

For that reason alone, people should see that he is not up to the job

Sentiments mean nothing in a trophy focussed sport
So true.
The other issue is that 3 years without a single trophy is unacceptable.
Jose got 2 trophies in 2.5 years.
LVG got 1 trophy in 2 years.
Ole has 0 trophies in 3 years.
 

Flytan

New Member
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
3,754
Location
United States
Irony is for winner types, you don't strike me as one.

Maybe I'll try again to explain my stance: you are right, we should have a contingency plan. We should have started to evaluate, started to prepare. All correct - but do you really think we did that? Do you really think, Ed and Murtough are ready for that?
Because if not - it changes the situation. As I stated already, if there is a good plan then now is the time to execute it. But if there isn't a plan, then we have to create one now. Because if we don't and we feel pressured to act we might end with another premature emotion driven decision. The kind of decision based on no existent plan that got us Mourinho after LVG. And that gave the permanent manager to Ole before there was the actual need to. I am sure you remember, the kind of decisions we wanted to avoid in the future.

I am not defending Ole, far from it. But I want the best for the club and if that means sticking to Ole for the rest of the season to then switch to a great candidate who is available then instead of now jumping to Conte, who first and foremost is in the mix because he is availabe, then I know which one to pick.


To be honest, even if I understand from where you are coming from, I don't perceive the urgency like you do. This squad is capable of challenging but it isn't guaranteed a title. No matter which manager comes in, there is no guarantee. Therefor it doesn't matter to me how this season pans out if the groundwork is layed for the future instead. I don't know which player you mean, who could leave - Pogba maybe? I am happy to see him leave. Who else could go? I don't see anybody. And we don't need another rebuilt because the last rebuilt hasn't really been finished in my eyes as long as we didn't adress the midfield situation. Therefor I don't see the need to act asap, to be perfectly honest, I think the chance that it will hurt us are potentially even bigger. Who is the fan favorite now? It is Conte, do we want to give Conte 1,5 or 2,5 years from now on? Even if we don't know, what his vision for the club would be? Which players he would plan with? If the plans would align to the plans of the club? If we evaluated the situation, interviewed Conte behind the scenes, synchronized plans silently - then fine, execute the plan now. If not, do the fecking work now. The club decided to stick with Ole, we shouldn't allow the club to cut his losses by just presenting the first available big name manager without any preparation.

The outlook of the season is what it is. Tuchel-situations are the exception not the norm. The odds are way better for the club if the time now is used to plan and prepare. Plus I'd argue, that some issues of our squad go deeper than to be rectified within a few weeks of training. Greenwood is a striker, to transform him into a hardworking winger will be close to impossible. Sanchos introduction to PL - will the manager just fast-forward that? Unlikely, wouldn't you agree? Will a new manager change Ronaldo or Pogba?

I am totally for accepting that change is necessary. But do it smart. I couldn't care less if that means that Ronaldos time here is wasted then, the club comes first. And no manager will just turn us into a monster team that is immediatly ready to just compensate such a player. I don't want to say, that this is the only way to see the situation. But for all the talk of not wanting to repeat mistakes, I would see it as a big mistake to just jump the gun now because the situation is really dire for 4 weeks. It all boils down if there is good plan ready to be executed. If it isn't - do it now. If there is a plan, then great, execute it now.
It's actually scary that you literally said it may not be worth replacing ole unless there's someone out there who can "guarantee a title this season". Dude, that's impossible. Longer ole stays the more damage he does. His lack of coaching is already ruining careers of promising young players. Players come in and they get worse here. I'd rraplce him with anyone available for the interim and then reassess long term in the summer. It's not rocket science.