We are an awfully coached team

georgipep

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So again we're back to the argument that because we don't see the coaching then we cannot comment on whether the team look like a well drilled cohesive unit, and whether they're underperforming/overperforming relative the quality of the players we have.

Of course everyone believes the talent of the players matters, if you're of the opinion that the quality of players we have is higher than that of the performances that are being produced then you may ask whether the manager is doing a good job. That's kind of the point of the manager, to get the best out of his team no?

At the end of the day the team is likely in one of 3 scenarios.
1. We're performing at a level better than the quality of the players we have (suggests we're very well coached)
2. We're performing at the level our quality of players would warrant (suggests we're adequately coached?)
3. We're performing at a level worse than the quality of players we have (suggests we're poorly coached)

It also raises the question of whether adequate would be good enough. If other teams can overperform relative to the talent in their squad, then should Manchester United not expect the same?

Again, post not intended to say we're poorly coached.
So, how do you decide what's the quality of players? Some players have talent in abundance but may not apply themselves. Other players play great football in certain systems and teams and much worse in other. How do you make a reasonable judgement on the whole squad that is made of 25+ players, each of whom have their own specific context?
 

Dominos

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So, how do you decide what's the quality of players? Some players have talent in abundance but may not apply themselves. Other players play great football in certain systems and teams and much worse in other. How do you make a reasonable judgement on the whole squad that is made of 25+ players, each of whom have their own specific context?
That's football isn't it? Every time a player is selected to start a game, promoted from reserves to first team, signed from another team - people at the club have made an estimate of said player's quality based on watching them play. Of course you can make the argument that no one on this forum knows football well enough to have a valid opinion, but in that case we may as well shut the forum down because it's a bit pointless if no one is allowed to make a judgement about a player's quality..
 

Ole's screen

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That's football isn't it? Every time a player is selected to start a game, promoted from reserves to first team, signed from another team - people at the club have made an estimate of said player's quality based on watching them play. Of course you can make the argument that no one on this forum knows football well enough to have a valid opinion, but in that case we may as well shut the forum down because it's a bit pointless if no one is allowed to make a judgement about a player's quality..
I think you’re missing the point. Say a manager doesn’t pick an expensive signing because as you say they’ve made a qualitative judgement about the player that doesn’t match his price. So then how can you from the outside say “This manager has millions worth of talent and isn’t using him right”? Surely the manager is the best judge of the player’s qualities - possibly better than the people who paid the money for the player?

Another point to think about in this scenario. Often the people who sanction the player signing are also the ones who hire and fire the manager. If the manager thinks the player their boss paid tons of money for is shit and doesn’t play him who do you think will get the blame there?
 
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georgipep

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That's football isn't it? Every time a player is selected to start a game, promoted from reserves to first team, signed from another team - people at the club have made an estimate of said player's quality based on watching them play. Of course you can make the argument that no one on this forum knows football well enough to have a valid opinion, but in that case we may as well shut the forum down because it's a bit pointless if no one is allowed to make a judgement about a player's quality..
You don't have to convince me on the latter :D I refrain from subjective judgement on players' ability and usually try to rely on data in terms of stats and performance on the pitch (which also needs to be put into context) but still refrain from giving negative ratings to players.
 

Dominos

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Again the lack of cohesion and quality in our touch/passing bemuses me at times, and then the set piece issue on top of it...

180 minutes against City over the past couple of weeks and did we even create a chance? And attack is our strength too - but this can be added to a long list including Palace, Arsenal, Chelsea, City league game, Wolves, Istanbul, West Brom and City again where we just look completely bereft of ideas.
 

Crashoutcassius

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Again the lack of cohesion and quality in our touch/passing bemuses me at times, and then the set piece issue on top of it...

180 minutes against City over the past couple of weeks and did we even create a chance? And attack is our strength too - but this can be added to a long list including Palace, Arsenal, Chelsea, City league game, Wolves, Istanbul, West Brom and City again where we just look completely bereft of ideas.
city have conceded 2 in 11 tbf, they are the best defensive side in the world at present i'd imagine
 

El Jefe

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The big games have been Ole's thing since he arrived but rival managers have clearly caught on to our plans and Ole has no clue on how to respond.

We haven't won a game against the traditional big 6 since we beat City in March before the lockdown. In Europe, we got a couple of wins vs PSG and RBL but lost the key games against them that could have guaranteed us qualifying to the next round.

You then add him losing four Semi-final's on the trot and it's starting to look like he's getting shown up in the biggest of matches.