We are an awfully coached team

Roboc7

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I don't think Ole has to go, Ole is a good players coach and knows our culture. He just needs to bring in a coach who can actually create attacking football. Kieran/Carrick have been the culprits.

Poach someone from Poch's/Tuchel/Klopps/Guardioala's team & pay them a lot of money, and let them implement a proper style of football.
Doesn’t matter who you poach, Ole is pragmatic and he’ll still be making the final decision. There’s every chance Mckenna and Carrick aren’t as negative as Ole.
 

Lee565

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What a waste of funds over the past few seasons, only to achieve sod all except precious top 4 football but what is the point of that If we can't even get our of the group stages under ole and have pretend the europa leage is something good to be in
 

Someone

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Those complaining about Ole's coaching ability and losing despite having a great bunch of players at his disposal. Let me put it to you had Ole not been the manager had we been fortunate to have these players at the club? Another revolving door of player ins and out is what's going to happen if Ole is sacked.
It's fair to say that Ole did a great job as a manager building this excellent group of players, while thinking long term, and clearly managing them well since we seem to have a good dressing room. That's not something all top managers are capable of doing, and for that he deserves a lot of credit. But it's also fair to say that sometimes he seems to be lacking when it comes to game management. He' a bit one dimensional.
 

lefty_jakobz

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This is what worries me, We are depending more on individual talent to bail us out under Ole then playing a systematic football.
No way we looked better compared to LVG/Jose era but it was talents like Rashford/Bruno/Cavani rescued us many times with their individual display.,
I like Ole and i want him to succeed so hopefully he recruits an young coach who can really get us playing in a style
All UTD fans want Ole to succeed, nothing would make us happier than seeing him lead us to titles, however, there is nothing in the time he’s been manager that makes me think he has the ability to, and thats the saddest part :(
 

antohan

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Really? We were pinned back the entire 2nd half.
Being pinned back and conceding are different things. They were largely inconsequential and looked far more dangerous after the red and before half time than in the entire second half. It's like suddenly nobody here ever watched a European away game under SAF.

We almost nicked an away draw from a very unfortunate position we landed in. In fact, could have killed off the game had Cristiano taken his chance and not decided to slow down and go down like a sack of potatoes under minimal contact.
 

croadyman

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Waste of time moaning about the coaching because Ole is too bloody stubborn to accept he needs help alongside him
 

croadyman

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It's fair to say that Ole did a great job as a manager building this excellent group of players, while thinking long term, and clearly managing them well since we seem to have a good dressing room. That's not something all top managers are capable of doing, and for that he deserves a lot of credit. But it's also fair to say that sometimes he seems to be lacking when it comes to game management. He' a bit one dimensional.
His game management is non existent and that won't be changing
 

Ali Dia

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That kids is why we need fred and McT or 2 other workers in midfield with the attacking balance we have. When even slightly above average teams are brave and they aggressively press us and disrupt us we shit the bed and lose the midfield. Then it’s all one way traffic against and we can’t make chances because we don’t have a foot hold in the game . Pogba and Bruno don’t win you the midfield. Pogba and rice don’t win you the midfield. The sooner people get their heads around it the better. Southampton aggressively came out at our midfield and hit us on the counter and should have won, same with Wolves. Leeds didn’t counter they set out to go toe to toe. Newcastle didn’t battle the middle they just sat back. The lads tonight with in hard for everything. There’s a big difference. A smart hard working team with a bit of class in the forwards can really get at us.
 
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croadyman

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That kids is why we need fred and McT or 2 other workers in midfield. When even slightly above average teams are brave and they aggressively press us and disrupt us we shit the bed and lose the midfield. Then it’s all one way traffic against and we can’t make chances because we don’t have a foot hold in the game . Pogba and Bruno don’t win you the midfield. Pogba and rice don’t win you the midfield. The sooner people get their heads around it the better. Southampton aggressively came at us on the counter and should have won, same with Wolves. Leeds didn’t counter they set out to go toe to toe. Newcastle just sat back. There’s a big difference. A smart hard working team with a bit of class in the forwards can really get at us.
Rice would definitely improve this midfield but clearly he isn't your choice then I take it
 

croadyman

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Just maybe one day the lightbulb will go off and Ole realises he needs some experience SAT alongside him who aren't part of that Utd old boys club and actually willing to challenge his decisions and not just melt in moments of adversity.
 

Ali Dia

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Rice would definitely improve this midfield but clearly he isn't your choice then I take it
Put Rice in that team tonight instead of Fred or Donny with Pogba and he’s just another lone passenger. There has to be some synergy and chemistry. It can’t just be Pogba doing all the attacking charging up the pitch and trying flicks and stuff and not getting back and not consistently getting stuck in and keeping it simple because it leaves Rice/ Locatelli/ Camavinga/ Kante whoever way too much of the grunt work to do and probably up against 2 players all the time. They both have to be comfortable going both ways and cover for each other so we can win the midfield. I like Rice but I don’t see the chemistry with any of the pairings. Prime Matic, Herrera and Fred couldn’t do it either. Ive been enjoying Pogba a lot but he’s not a player who ever really gives you the control of the game. I don’t think he fully knows himself what he’s going to do from play to play. It’s all an improvisation depending on how much space he’s given. The smart teams can shut him down and make his team pay for his over exuberance when he goes central.
 
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MadMike

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There's nothing special about our purchases under Ole, half of them at least have been questionable.
Half? No, not really. VdB is the only really questionable one.

James was not great but a low cost punt that we turned a profit on. AWB not turned out as good as we expected perhaps for the 50m price tag but not a failure either, not by any stretch.

Maguire and Bruno have been great. Cavani too. Then there’s this season’s additions: Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo. Two of those are undoubtedly world class. Sancho will have to prove he’s his worth of course, so the jury is still out on him.
 

croadyman

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Put Rice in that team tonight instead of Fred or Donny with Pogba and he’s just another lone passenger. There has to be some synergy and chemistry. It can’t just be Pogba doing the attacking charging up the pitch and trying flicks and stuff and not getting back and getting stuck in because it leaves Rice/ Locatelli/ Camavinga/ Kante whoever way too much of the other work to do. They both have to be comfortable going both ways. I like Rice but I don’t see the chemistry with any of the pairings. Prime Matic, Herrera and Fred couldn’t do it either. Ive been enjoying Pogba a lot but he’s not a player who ever really gives you the control of the game. I don’t think he fully knows himself what he’s going to do from play to play.
Ok fair points so who do you think could be the answer in that area then
 

432JuanMata

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I get the sending off isn’t his fault but after that he then has to earn his money and reshape the team to play after that. We didn’t play, we didn’t keep possession, we didn’t play on the counter and we didn’t try to stop them from pushing us deeper. I actually don’t know what we were trying to do in that game
 

Ali Dia

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Ok fair points so who do you think could be the answer in that area then
I think Pogba instead of Bruno for some games. On the left for some games. In the centre when teams are legit going to sit back for 75mins and play for the draw. Otherwise when teams come at us we need scrappy players who keep it simple win the ball a lot and keep recycling it fast to our better players and who can genuinely protect the defence. We’ve been all over the shop conceding chances since the season started. It’s like pinball!
 

Nicoseth

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This narrative that we're an 'awfully coached team' is a joke. Every time we don't play well or lose a game it's just too easy to jump on Ole and his staff and chuck all the blame on them. Yes, we were poor tonight, and I would probably have made different subs to the ones we did, but I think our overall way of playing under Ole has been good. not perfect by any means, but good. He now has a team that can compete. Let's see where we are at the end of the season and let him be judged then. I would say that with this squad we need to win or go very close to winning the league and get to the semis in the CL. Let's see what happens.
 

sp_107

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its not about tonight game, we looked bit average in all games except Leeds in this season
 

Cheimoon

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Those complaining about Ole's coaching ability and losing despite having a great bunch of players at his disposal. Let me put it to you had Ole not been the manager had we been fortunate to have these players at the club? Another revolving door of player ins and out is what's going to happen if Ole is sacked.
I disagree with the underlying premise. The chopping and changing of the squad is not inherent to changing the manager and did not have to happen, it is itself a result of bad management (not by Ole of course). I mean, appointing Moyes after Ferguson, LvG after Moyes, and Mourinho after LvG - none of that makes sense in terms of continuity, and that's what caused the constant squad overhauls. (I'm not including the Mourinho-Ole transition here since that one did work out better. But since Ole wasn't initially hired as the permanent new manager, probably not much thinking went into continuity there either.)

Next, I also don't think Ole would have been instrumental in getting these players to join United. He is not an illustrious manager and has not achieved great things. He will have played a (large?) role in the player identification and hiring process, of course, but I would really doubt that big players would have joined United because of Ole in particular.

Also, you don't need these players specifically at United. It's a cool group to have in its current form, but another manager would also have been able to attract big names (probably some of the same), because United are a big club with big money, regardless of the manager. (And to some extent even regardless of performances, as some of the transfers during the worst periods of the past few years have shown.)

Finally, firing Ole wouldn't have to lead to another squad overhaul if United would do a good job with the selection process, and made sure to hire someone that can build on what Ole has been working towards, and agreed that the current squad is in good shape to continue that work. For example, hiring a manager focused on possession or pressing would make little sense. Of course though, as I said, United have had an awful recent track record hiring coaches with an eye on continuity. So in that sense, if they would get that completely wrong once again, you're right that you'd be in for another squad overhaul that would set you back a few years again...
 
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Tyrion

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I don't think Ole has to go, Ole is a good players coach and knows our culture. He just needs to bring in a coach who can actually create attacking football. Kieran/Carrick have been the culprits.
What does that mean? I know our culture but I'd be a disaster as the kit man, nevermind the manager.
 

Rightnr

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This narrative that we're an 'awfully coached team' is a joke. Every time we don't play well or lose a game it's just too easy to jump on Ole and his staff and chuck all the blame on them. Yes, we were poor tonight, and I would probably have made different subs to the ones we did, but I think our overall way of playing under Ole has been good. not perfect by any means, but good. He now has a team that can compete. Let's see where we are at the end of the season and let him be judged then. I would say that with this squad we need to win or go very close to winning the league and get to the semis in the CL. Let's see what happens.
We don't play well every other game. Playing well meaning playing well as a cohesive attacking and defensive unit, not relying on Brunaldo, Greenwood, Pogba or Rashford to pull out a rabbit out of a hat every time.

Saying to wait until the end of season is the same old shite we were told last season. The writing is on the wall, people are just so set on not seeing it they are firmly staring at the floor.
 

SAFMUTD

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This narrative that we're an 'awfully coached team' is a joke. Every time we don't play well or lose a game it's just too easy to jump on Ole and his staff and chuck all the blame on them. Yes, we were poor tonight, and I would probably have made different subs to the ones we did, but I think our overall way of playing under Ole has been good. not perfect by any means, but good. He now has a team that can compete. Let's see where we are at the end of the season and let him be judged then. I would say that with this squad we need to win or go very close to winning the league and get to the semis in the CL. Let's see what happens.
I've heard that one for the last 3 seasons, what will happen? we wont win a thing and instead of saying "hey we are here, lets judge Ole" nah the "we cant compete without 4 new players. He inherited a mess from Mourinho, lets see where we are at the end of the season and let him be juged then"

Its like groundhog day here.
 
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I don't think Ole has to go, Ole is a good players coach and knows our culture. He just needs to bring in a coach who can actually create attacking football. Kieran/Carrick have been the culprits.

Poach someone from Poch's/Tuchel/Klopps/Guardioala's team & pay them a lot of money, and let them implement a proper style of football.
So it was Carrick and McKenna that took of Ronaldo and bought on Lingard, thanks for clearing that up.
 

SAFMUTD

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What does that mean? I know our culture but I'd be a disaster as the kit man, nevermind the manager.
It means he gets what Manchester United its all about. He knows the spirit, or something conveniently vage and unquantifiable.
 

ExoduS

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What happened today was very terrible. I am very familiar with Young Boys as they were common opponent to Serbian teams Red Star/Partizan and I never seen neither of the mentioned teams so dominated against Young Boys.
Something is a bit wrong with us. The way we were getting dominated in the second half was so sad. Why play Varane, Lindeloef and Maguire at the same time? Why Varane for de Beek?
We had lost one defensive player, then we put 2 defenders in as a substitute, but we played like we were missing 3 players.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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It means he gets what Manchester United its all about. He knows the spirit, or something conveniently vage and unquantifiable.
It’s a load of bollocks. What did Tuchel know about Chelsea’s “culture” before taking over mid season & winning them a Champions League.

It’s all just nonsense used to deflect away from his obvious limitations as a coach. “Oh well he knows the culture of the club” well so does Gary fecking Neville, more so than Ole in fact. Should he get the job next?
 

SAFMUTD

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It’s a load of bollocks. What did Tuchel know about Chelsea’s “culture” before taking over mid season & winning them a Champions League.

It’s all just nonsense used to deflect away from his obvious limitations as a coach. “Oh well he knows the culture of the club” well so does Gary fecking Neville, more so than Ole in fact. Should he get the job next?
Exactly, but hey whatever it takes to excuse the beloved player as a coach. "Its not his fault, he just needs better players and coaches" its what gets repeated more often here, basically saying we need to build an organization around Ole that covers for his lack of coaching skills, an organization that doesnt need a manager to succed, and then we'll be able to win and judge Ole. But before that its always something else, the Glazzers, the defense, the midfield, the negative fans in the caf or whatever but not Ole.
 

mu4c_20le

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This narrative that we're an 'awfully coached team' is a joke. Every time we don't play well or lose a game it's just too easy to jump on Ole and his staff and chuck all the blame on them. Yes, we were poor tonight, and I would probably have made different subs to the ones we did, but I think our overall way of playing under Ole has been good. not perfect by any means, but good. He now has a team that can compete. Let's see where we are at the end of the season and let him be judged then. I would say that with this squad we need to win or go very close to winning the league and get to the semis in the CL. Let's see what happens.
Most fans are really short sighted and kneejerk these days, you'd think that was the last game of the group.
 

Nicoseth

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I've heard that one for the last 3 seasons, what will happen? we wont win a thing and instead of saying "hey we are here, lets judge Ole" nah the "we cant compete without 4 new players. He inherited a mess from Mourinho, lets see where we are at the end of the season and let him be juged then"

Its like groundhog day here.
And what did you expect from the last 3 seasons exactly? Some people, me included, would say that Ole overachieved last season. 2nd place with that squad? Outstanding. In his first full season he got us back in the CL. He has transformed our squad and outperformed any manager we have had since SAF. But sure, we lost a game tonight, so let's bin him. Ridiculous.
 

Nicoseth

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We don't play well every other game. Playing well meaning playing well as a cohesive attacking and defensive unit, not relying on Brunaldo, Greenwood, Pogba or Rashford to pull out a rabbit out of a hat every time.

Saying to wait until the end of season is the same old shite we were told last season. The writing is on the wall, people are just so set on not seeing it they are firmly staring at the floor.
What writing? You know we're top of the premier league, right? And you say others are staring at the floor. The fact that people want to sack a manager that got us to 2nd last season and who is currently sitting first this season speaks volumes.
 

meamth

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To me the losses don't even bother me all that much, or the wins. I've said it before, it's the lack of any tactical management and style of play that is distressing to see. Our team, no matter how good it is on paper, looks like a bunch of players thrown in to play amateur Sunday league football. Whatever Ole is trying to do, if he is trying to do anything at all, is clearly not working. Moyes had a style. Not fit for a United manager, but he had one - sit back, get a break and counter-attack through the wings by pumping crosses in. Louis Van Gaal had a style. Not the prettiest or effective, but he had one - low tempo possession football. Then we have Mourinho who was similar to Moyes in that regard - defensively solid, hit on the break.

But with Ole I genuinely can't see anything. It's been 3 years now, what is he even trying to do? Klopp has his gegenpress, Pep has his tiki taka, what does Ole even have?
This question pops up everytime we lose or draw.

sigh
 

SAFMUTD

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And what did you expect from the last 3 seasons exactly? Some people, me included, would say that Ole overachieved last season. 2nd place with that squad? Outstanding. In his first full season he got us back in the CL. He has transformed our squad and outperformed any manager we have had since SAF. But sure, we lost a game tonight, so let's bin him. Ridiculous.
I expect a team that knows a system. 2nd place alone is no short thing, but looking into specifics it's a really "cheap" second place where we ended up far from City after being top of the league in December.

Then of course we were ridiculed in last seasons UCL group stage, and yet couldn't even win that second tier EL tournament.

Got us back to the UCL, isn't that the bare minimum for a squad like ours? I mean you make it sound like an achievement, as if we have wolves squad or something. We had and have easily a top 4 squad in the league. It should be a given to qualify to the UCL, not worth to mention in my opinion.

Now about overachieving the other managers, well let's take into account the competition there, Moyes who may very well be the worst manager we ever had, LVG who was a boredom fest and Mourinho who was toxic as feck. Really the bar can't get much lower, but guess what? Still those managers, besides Moyes, won titles. Even Mourinho who seems only gets looked here as his last part managed to get a better second place with a lot more points than Ole.

So, by no metric is Ole better than Mourinho being honest. The only one is sentimental, the feeling about a healthier squad, attracting better players, etc but results wise we haven't reached the heights we reached with Mourinho and let's be clear, Mourinho failed here. There's no two ways about that.

But stating that somehow Ole has been more successful without actually winning a single trophy is ridiculous.

Finally, it's not only about tonight. If this happened to Sir Alex, Pep, Klopp, or Tuchel nobody would blink an eye. Bad luck poor performance move on, but Ole doesn't have that kind of credit in the bank does he? We continuously keep displaying this odd performances, to the point weather we can't really be sure about our next performance.

Which team we'll see next Sunday? The one against Leeds or the one against Southampton? Nobody can answer that, it depends on the players mood.
 

sullydnl

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This narrative that we're an 'awfully coached team' is a joke. Every time we don't play well or lose a game it's just too easy to jump on Ole and his staff and chuck all the blame on them. Yes, we were poor tonight, and I would probably have made different subs to the ones we did, but I think our overall way of playing under Ole has been good. not perfect by any means, but good. He now has a team that can compete. Let's see where we are at the end of the season and let him be judged then. I would say that with this squad we need to win or go very close to winning the league and get to the semis in the CL. Let's see what happens.
Point out the team are badly coached when we lose and we're accused of jumping on Ole. Point it out when we win and we're accused of being miserable/spoiled. When is it actually acceptable to point out evident flaws in the team? Because these aren't issues that only appear when we lose games, they're consistent and they're glaring, unless you have your head buried in the sand or don't understand what's actually happening in the games you're watching.

We don't need to wait until the end of the season to judge whether we're badly coached, we've been watching United under Ole for years at this point. We can see when even poor players are well/badly coached too, so the notion that he needed better players before we could judge him in this regard was always nonsense.
 

meamth

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Point out the team are badly coached when we lose and we're accused of jumping on Ole. Point it out when we win and we're accused of being miserable/spoiled. When is it actually acceptable to point out evident flaws in the team? Because these aren't issues that only appear when we lose games, they're consistent and they're glaring, unless you have your head buried in the sand or don't understand what's actually happening in the games you're watching.

We don't need to wait until the end of the season to judge whether we're badly coached, we've been watching United under Ole for years at this point. We can see when even poor players are well/badly coached too, so the notion that he needed better players before we could judge him in this regard was always nonsense.
We don't lose 90% of the games a season do we?
 

lex talionis

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Questions about Ole are valid, but tonight’s shambolism falls on the players, not Ole. You expect your players to show up and do the job.

We can blame Ole for trusting Lingard but otherwise it really is the players who let us down tonight.