Needs more time
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
- Start date
The 2nd time they tried
Watching Liverpool lose a number of key players and perform better than we have this season in the league really underlines that we are shit.
players seamlessly able to slot into a system. players who understand their roles. technically and tactically good players.
Poorly coached and forever hopeful that our group of individuals like Bruno or Martial will pull something out.
not good enough
players seamlessly able to slot into a system. players who understand their roles. technically and tactically good players.
Poorly coached and forever hopeful that our group of individuals like Bruno or Martial will pull something out.
not good enough
Of course we badly coached. It's there to be seen on match days. OGS sits in the stands looking at his computer screen. Carrick looks uninterested. Phelan does get himself on the touchline now and then but that's about it. We need a class manager who engages with the players from the touchline. OGS and his team are an embarassment!
I agree completely with this. I feel we needed him to take us through the grunt work of our rebuild. LVG and Mourinho were too big to accept the idea of rebuilding and both tried to fix the team rather than tear it all down like Ole has done. The end of last season brought hope of a new tactical identity under him, but his weaknesses in terms of training ( our start to the season) , not being able to adapt tactically to underperforming players in that successful tactic and not being able to quickly form a system with the new players we have now have essentially exposed him.
The questions now are, can he prove us wrong? Can we afford to wait another season before letting him go? How long would poach be willing to wait for us?
I would actually say that Bilic is a better manager.
If he got fired from WBA, he may still manage in the EPL.
If Ole got fired from MUFC, no EPL team would ever hire him. Ole getting the job, like Moyes before him, must feel that he has won the lottery.
This is Carricks first job and Mckenna second (not counting the unders work). They are junior members of coaching, Carrick was a round with Jose and frankly not much has moved since... Well since a long time before then.
Carrick was a good player, but is he a good coach, players will say "Carrick helps or his still sharp" I couldn't give feck if he's sharp on the training field. Maybe he should be on the side telling them to stop playing in slow motion.
Before that it was Giggs, are we running some kinda coaching Academy or Football Club (loan firm)
Carrick was a good player, but is he a good coach, players will say "Carrick helps or his still sharp" I couldn't give feck if he's sharp on the training field. Maybe he should be on the side telling them to stop playing in slow motion.
Before that it was Giggs, are we running some kinda coaching Academy or Football Club (loan firm)
I'd say we should be careful of our former players, many of which are sticking around to use the club as a springboard to a coaching career at a mega club rather than starting from scratch and earning it. Before taking the Wales job Giggs just hung around holding out for the United job not even considering lesser jobs. If they had their way they'd turn the club to an old boys club. The United way must never become a backdoor excuse for nepotism
I'm afraid it already has.
This is true. Good performances are now rewarded through add-on incentivised packages (e.g. clean sheet bonus, goals clauses). Advertising revenue and commercial sponsorships remain the central driving force for football's wage structure. So it doesn't matter if a player doesn't perform, it just means he might miss out on a couple of bonuses, which means nothing in the larger scheme of things. Are there even formalised performance appraisals for players these days?
Comparing Klopp to Ole is like comparing a Ferrari to a Tractor.
We need a proper manager who can consistently show is at the very least a well coached and run football team.
People keep saying that we need better players but the cutting squad are underperforming. They look unprepared for games quite often. The club is not well run on the company side of things.
If any of these players played for City or Pool thy would be transformed.
/watch?v=mPrO1qegNAY
He wasn't as fit looking nor as flairy as this at Southampton.
If any of these players played for City or Pool thy would be transformed.
/watch?v=mPrO1qegNAY
He wasn't as fit looking nor as flairy as this at Southampton.
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Yea I agree - the awful thing is we will have to fail/finish 5th for this to happen
Ole could really benefit from bringing someone in to support him in tactics/coaching and affect an improvement - Queiroz made a real difference to Fergie's team from a tactical point of view.
I don't feel like things are likely to click for an Ole team anytime soon
I bet Klopp could coach those 2 some movement in a matter of 3 weeks.
I feel like a sign of how bad we look on the pitch shows in the manner of the way we press.
Bruno runs past Martial to try and initiate some pressure on the ball. Martial and Rashford don't bother to follow, and it's all lost.
When Bruno first showed up, we showed great organization in pressing.
It's similar to our movement off the ball. A clear problem in the team but one that is not being rectified.
In fact, our best pressers from the front this season for me have been Pogba(despite poor performances), and Bruno tried his utmost to start something.
There seems to be a problem that our front line can't be arsed.
Bruno runs past Martial to try and initiate some pressure on the ball. Martial and Rashford don't bother to follow, and it's all lost.
When Bruno first showed up, we showed great organization in pressing.
It's similar to our movement off the ball. A clear problem in the team but one that is not being rectified.
In fact, our best pressers from the front this season for me have been Pogba(despite poor performances), and Bruno tried his utmost to start something.
There seems to be a problem that our front line can't be arsed.
The job was too big for Moyes, but he is doing well at WHU. Moyes had his work at Everton on his CV. Ole as you say will never get another job in the PL.
Some also pointed out that when VDB is in the side, he will pass the ball and then make himself available for a pass by moving into space. Unfortunately that pass never comes. If you are constantly on the move it is far harder to defend. Just stand about like a statue it makes the oppositions defence's work much easier. Our forwards are guilty of this, they want the ball on a sixpence, when sometimes that isn't possible and you actually have to anticipate and run to where the ball is going to arrive.
This is my biggest concern. Cavani yesterday chased a ball back to almost LB, I have not seen any of our forwards other than Bruno chase players back when we are out of possession.
For me this is a key reason why teams find it easy playing against us, we cannot maintain attacks. Our players should be sprinting to close people down, not because theyll win the ball, they will make opponents play a pass they dont really want to, if you run at someone who doesnt have a pass on, they will more likely hit a long ball which our CB's should win.
Secondly, cutting passing lanes is something we are poor at, yesterday in the 85th minute, Bruno was pressing in a 10 role and the CB played a pass into the CM, no one was marking him and he could turn and run at our defence. This also comes as a result of holding a very deep line.
Go watch Liverpool then. Christ, klopp this, klopp that, all hail the mighty klopp!
Ya know he turned us down right? And you know why?
For one reason alone, bollockhead. The same bollockhead who's overseen the last 7 years of dogshit. The same bollockhead who disappears every transfer window until it's too late.
There's no better managers coming in, we've tried that but bollockhead pissed them off.
This is why when we sign players they're good, and then they slowly become shit.
Their previous clubs training/tactics/expectations are still with them....but then that slowly fades and they end up playing to our current standards.
Their previous clubs training/tactics/expectations are still with them....but then that slowly fades and they end up playing to our current standards.
Consistency and application comes down to a player's personal mentality, and I believe that some of our player's have a very poor mentality.
I think complacency is a huge problem throughout this club.
Why don't you crow out of Ole's arse and see soome light before telling me to go and watch Klopp. Klopp isn't the only coach that could work on some movement with out players, there are other managers also.
Woodward is an absolute incompetent twat, but we have to draw a line and point out what's on his plate and what isn't. At times we look like an absolute pub team and the manager is to blame for that imo. And we are not just talking about Rashford and Martial, every player in our side can be blamed for poor movement and bad decision making more often than not, the problem is bigger than 2 or 3 players imo.
You're not saying anything new, just spouting the same mindless guff that everybody else is.
I'm not up oles arse nor am I happy with how things are. Am I gonna start kissing the arse of another teams coach? Am I Bollox, especially not the vermin's.
I couldn't give a toss how well they're doing.
Football goes in cycles (except for Spain) and it's our turn in the wilderness. Sacking the manager now would be catastrophic IMO, they'll just bring poch in, tell him he's got all the backing, then shit all over him in the summer.
And next November we'll be here having the same argument.
Promoting coaches internally and bringing back familiar faces to oversee the team makes sense if you want to perpetuate a format and approach.
However, it deprives you of new thinking and it places you at risk of ‘familiarity breeding contempt’.
Strikes me that we suffer from wishing to hold on to the past too much instead of starting anew.
The shadow of Matt Busby weighed heavily on the managers that followed him and it’s not outlandish to suggest that SAF’s presence might be having a similar effect.
However, it deprives you of new thinking and it places you at risk of ‘familiarity breeding contempt’.
Strikes me that we suffer from wishing to hold on to the past too much instead of starting anew.
The shadow of Matt Busby weighed heavily on the managers that followed him and it’s not outlandish to suggest that SAF’s presence might be having a similar effect.
Those are the worst examples you can make. As soon as ref blows for kick-off there's not much a manager can do.
? Except both did tear it all down just as Ole did.
LVG totally change the whole of Moyes inherited squad of players, kicking them out of the squad to be replaced with new set of players except DDG, Rooney, Carrick and Young who deserved to stay at that times, then you have the chuckle brothers and Valencia. Also told Giggs to retired.
^ It's a total finished rebuild in 2nd season. But of course he still spin the bs argument of still needing more time to rebuild and train the players which his fans buy.
Mou did the same thing shafted out Rooney with class, and the rest normally. 16/17 and 17/18 is totally different team compare to LVG's. Then he wasn't backed by the club to shaft out many players out nor bringing in more players in compare to the huge numbers of players given to LVG and Ole.
^ He rebuilt it twice actually, once in 16/17 but it's incomplete, then had to rebuilt another different squad in 17/18 but almost reach completion, just need another CB seemingly. We know the story that he wasn't backed of course, then he throw tantrums instead of focusing on players he got so he deserve the sack.
People say Ole tear Mou's team all down and re-build from scratch or something like that... really now? Big chunk of the players he inherited from his predecessors teams. The only two "new" faces is just AWB, Maguire and later on Bruno. That's it. Greenwood and now Dean is also around on the fringe. Majority of his 11 are players from past teams. And not there's huge number of the shit and deadwood players leaving. Lingard is still here as does Jones, Rojo, Grant... who else? People also say Matic and Mata are not good enough and we need far better upgrades, they're still here and especially Mata still playing a lot of games. And what about the other newer players? James is getting worse, as does Ighalo while DVB is just out of favor.
^ Ole Rebuild? More like still never ending claims of rebuilding to deflect away from the actual problems. Two summer transfers window is not enough to finish rebuild his squad especially construct a best 11 to be strong enough to win title let alone trophies? Or at least to improve the football performance consistency?
Back to thread, it seems like...
With LVG - we know how we play in both defend and attack (all season) and it's trash football majority of the games.
With Mou - we always know how we defend, but we only know how we play in both defend and attack (1st season and the football is so good) and have no idea how we attack (2nd and 3rd seasons) and it's trash football.
With Ole - we have no idea how we play in both attack and defend (all three season, minus caretaker months <-- that one is very clear, after he got the job permanently our football gets worse quickly) and it's usually trash.
Damn, we were so horribly coached... well arguments can be made that we were actually coached well to play trash rubbish football. Successes.
In all the period especially majority of the games, we were usually good in the big games but horribly and comically bad against the weak teams. This is how it is in LVG's and Ole's seasons. Only Mou's first two seasons where we usually good vs the weak teams (the 1st season, we outclassed weak teams but just couldn't finish, that's all) but mixed yet normal results vs top teams, except 3rd season nightmare of course.
Is that enough to only get points and wins against the top teams, but laughably lose many pts on a consistent basis vs the weak teams?
LVG fans seems to love this idea. Is Ole-in fans also the same? It's like winning the battle (few high profile games) but lose the war (league). At least we get top 3 in a season where other three top teams too are in transitions luckily, isn't it. Isn't it just pointless bragging rights? Eg. "At least we beat the top teams majority of the big games in a season"... that's a terrible mentality to have.
With LVG - we know how we play in both defend and attack (all season) and it's trash football majority of the games.
With Mou - we always know how we defend, but we only know how we play in both defend and attack (1st season and the football is so good) and have no idea how we attack (2nd and 3rd seasons) and it's trash football.
With Ole - we have no idea how we play in both attack and defend (all three season, minus caretaker months <-- that one is very clear, after he got the job permanently our football gets worse quickly) and it's usually trash.
Damn, we were so horribly coached... well arguments can be made that we were actually coached well to play trash rubbish football. Successes.
In all the period especially majority of the games, we were usually good in the big games but horribly and comically bad against the weak teams. This is how it is in LVG's and Ole's seasons. Only Mou's first two seasons where we usually good vs the weak teams (the 1st season, we outclassed weak teams but just couldn't finish, that's all) but mixed yet normal results vs top teams, except 3rd season nightmare of course.
Is that enough to only get points and wins against the top teams, but laughably lose many pts on a consistent basis vs the weak teams?
LVG fans seems to love this idea. Is Ole-in fans also the same? It's like winning the battle (few high profile games) but lose the war (league). At least we get top 3 in a season where other three top teams too are in transitions luckily, isn't it. Isn't it just pointless bragging rights? Eg. "At least we beat the top teams majority of the big games in a season"... that's a terrible mentality to have.
How are you comparing them? I know plenty of tractors that cost more than Ferrari's and are better in the mud.
Really wish that Ole was prepared to accept he needs some more experienced coaches around him,however he just wants to carry on with the Utd old boys club which is a mistake
something as simple as that could change everything. I want ole to succeed but it’s not looking likely.
Whether it’s that they can’t be arsed is the correct analogy, I do agree that our front line are a large (possibly largest) problem that needs fixing. Whether that fix is on the training ground or replacing them I don’t know. I suspect a bit of both.
Massively talented as Rashford and Martial are they are very limited in their skill set and while both can be great finishers, neither are pure goal scorers.
Regarding coaching though, I would love someone to actually explain to me how we’ve improved against teams that sit back. How have we changed our game in the last two years to overcome this?
Yes, we’ve bought Bruno and he’s helped but what of the rest of our attack? What are Rashford and Martial being taught on the training pitch for these situations? I can literally see no evidence that anything is changing.
Has anyone in this thread or this board ever coached before?
Alright genius go back and list every game since OGS took charge and tell us what the record is against teams that sit back.
Not football no. Boxing yes, and I was a PT for over a decade. Why do you ask?
Save me the effort, what’s your point?
I'm still baffled by the thread.
We still discussing nonsense, acting like we know we're actually an awfully coached team or not.
We know feck all what are they doing behind the scenes, what drills they are applying, what is the data, what is the research....who the feck knows???
I'm firm with my views, we're actually going to hit some form soon, and when that time comes, I hope this thread goes into obscurity.
We still discussing nonsense, acting like we know we're actually an awfully coached team or not.
We know feck all what are they doing behind the scenes, what drills they are applying, what is the data, what is the research....who the feck knows???
I'm firm with my views, we're actually going to hit some form soon, and when that time comes, I hope this thread goes into obscurity.
On FM, does that count ?
I hope you’re right! I don’t actually see the problem with this thread other than the unnecessarily accusatory title. There’s worse threads on here.
My query with whatever our coaching system does on the training ground is that over the last few years, not just during Oles tenure, smaller teams have looked better drilled than we have.
I see other teams much more effective at penetrating defences than we do at times. I often wonder why this is.
This is they key for me too. We have no idea what goes on during training sessions (these days, there isn't even time to do proper coaching tbh, they play every 3 days). I guess the bland football we often see from Man Utd makes us wonder about these things. The lack of easily identifiable good pattern of plays is what frustrates me personally.
Weird because I always see the pattern.
- The LB>LW>CM triangles, most of the times we can see them playing fast combination of passing to attack.
- The combination of Bruno>Rashford>Martial, haven't clicked this season, but seen in the past it can hurt teams.
- The combination of AWB>Fred>Mata/Greenwood,
- Fred pressing the midfield while Matic/McT covering the defense.
- When things go bad, Bruno picks the ball from deep and try to deliver long through pass.
- Martial holds the ball, pass it to Bruno and Rashford/Mata opens up the wings.
- Absorb the pressure, Matic/Fred/McT wins the ball and release it to Rashford/Martial.
- Quick direct passing.