We are an awfully coached team

Borys

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Yeah, I’m curious how many teams end up getting a result after being reduced to 10 men and then switching to a back 5?

Taking off Donny was a mistake because it meant we totally surrendered the midfield and thereby possession of the ball. I just rewatched the first half and they really were doing very little against our 4. I have no idea why Ole switched to a back 5 except it seemed his attitude was hold what we have. A difficult task when you totally surrender the ball and have a whole half of football against 11 men and a fierce crowd.
Defending (and attacking) starts in midfield. The reason why some teams have so good defensive record is because they can prevent dangerous situations in Central areas, and in the end the defenders have much less to do. Similar things with attacking, midfield and attackers work the ball to isolate opponent defender and pull him wide to 1on1.

Personally I think our manager and coaching stuff have no particular idea what midfield should be doing, so they just keep the number of midfielders to minimum (sometimes 2, sometimes 1) and give them very easy instructions: after you get the ball back, pass it to forwards, or if that's not possible, just pass it to defenders-they do the playmaking at United. So it doesn't really surprise me Ole though it's a good idea to sacrifice a midfielder for a defender.
 

Cheimoon

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what i am not getting is that people dont see the development united as a whole and the squad made since ole took over. since saf there was no time where i thought that the club is going in the right direction until ole.
I have no idea who you're arguing against with that comment. Isn't everyone acknowledging that Ole assembled a great squad and has put the club into a great position? Who's denying that?
 

devilish

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What the hell?
AWB was never great in going forward but his defensive contribution had recently gone to the shitters as well. His tackle against Young Boys is the epitome of that. No wonder why Ole wanted Trippier this season.
 

Sultan

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Yes, we are.

No plan, no pattern or no style. Just a bunch of 11 individuals on the ground trying to do something.

Bringing a right back who can attack because our 50m signing cant attack. Playing Bruno deep , Rashford right, Cavani left.

Seriously WTF is happening?
Was this a knee jerk thread after a bad result or two?

I have no idea of the work behind the scenes of our coaches. However, I can only assume they will be very competent at their work. Let's start with M Phelen who was appointed by football Don Sir Alex as first-team coach and assistant manager. That's some CV. Kieran Mckenna's work was so impressive Jose elevated him to the first-team staff following the departure of his sidekick Rui Faria. I am not sure about Carrick as a coach. I do know he was a great professional and well respected as a footballer. I do remember Ole saying Carrick not being a yes man, and he wouldn't have it any other way.

That's a lot of coaching experience just to decide the choice of playing styles 4-4-2, 5-4-1, 3-4-3, 4-3-3 and in-game management. We also now have Ronaldo who will obviously have an input. There is so much experience now in the team the players should be able to coach themselves and deal with in-game management. They are no longer apprentices.

I'm not saying Ole or his coaches have always made the right decisions, but as fans, it's easy to criticise substitutions after the events. To be fair, Ole has improved the team year on year and last season we finished second and were pretty close to winning some competitions.

Let's judge him after a major portion of the season. Not when we're top of the league and just lost one game due to a sending off and a mistake by a player in injury time. Yes, if there is no improvement after the season or something drastic happens during the course of the season then it's time for a post-mortem. In the meantime get behind the team.
 

captaincantona

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Let's start with M Phelen who was appointed by football Don Sir Alex as first-team coach and assistant manager. That's some CV. Kieran Mckenna's work was so impressive Jose elevated him to the first-team staff following the departure of his sidekick Rui Faria.
That's a lot of coaching experience just to decide the choice of playing styles 4-4-2, 5-4-1, 3-4-3, 4-3-3 and in-game management.
Jesus where to start. First, it’s not a knee jerk to two bad performances...we have been playing shite football pretty consistently for years and years. Slow, no imagination. With Mourinho it was a style thing and he proved that at Spurs but the fear is that with Ole it’s lack of ability to coach us to play better football. Simple. Don’t bring up league finishes or finals reached as evidence that we are a good team- I’m talking about sitting down and enjoying 90 minutes of watching us play football. go to the matchday threads from last season, the general consensus is that we were rubbish most games and ground out results or someone stepped up and bailed us out. No discernible tactical approach or way of playing to fall back on.

With regard to your point about coaching experience and 4-4-2etc...do you think that the fuking magic we witnessed from prime Barca, CL Treble Real Madrid, Bayern thrashing Barcelona, as much as it pains me Liverpool a few seasons back or city for basically 5 years-is that achieved by just sending teams out in a particular formation? Is that what you think coaches do? That’s fuking 100’s of hours of analysis and development of strategy and training drills and coaching to execute the managers/coaches plans perfectly. The point being made is that some fans quite legitimately believe that Ole and his team are not capable of reaching that level.

As for your point about Mick Phelan...there are ample articles and players comments which confirm that he is an assistant manager. Not a coach. He is steering the ship with Ole. Not working with players to any great detail in training. That’s on Carrick and McKenna.
 

Sultan

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Jesus where to start. First, it’s not a knee jerk to two bad performances...we have been playing shite football pretty consistently for years and years. Slow, no imagination. With Mourinho it was a style thing and he proved that at Spurs but the fear is that with Ole it’s lack of ability to coach us to play better football. Simple. Don’t bring up league finishes or finals reached as evidence that we are a good team- I’m talking about sitting down and enjoying 90 minutes of watching us play football. go to the matchday threads from last season, the general consensus is that we were rubbish most games and ground out results or someone stepped up and bailed us out. No discernible tactical approach or way of playing to fall back on.

With regard to your point about coaching experience and 4-4-2etc...do you think that the fuking magic we witnessed from prime Barca, CL Treble Real Madrid, Bayern thrashing Barcelona, as much as it pains me Liverpool a few seasons back or city for basically 5 years-is that achieved by just sending teams out in a particular formation? Is that what you think coaches do? That’s fuking 100’s of hours of analysis and development of strategy and training drills and coaching to execute the managers/coaches plans perfectly. The point being made is that some fans quite legitimately believe that Ole and his team are not capable of reaching that level.

As for your point about Mick Phelan...there are ample articles and players comments which confirm that he is an assistant manager. Not a coach. He is steering the ship with Ole. Not working with players to any great detail in training. That’s on Carrick and McKenna.
Yes, LvG and Mourinho produced yawn-inducing football teams. However, it's not hard to see Ole has been slowly but surely weeding out the ugly and has overseen an overhaul of the playing staff. The point of my post was to say there has been an improvment over the last few years. There is no simple magic wand. Again, let's wait and see what happens over the season.

Pretty pointless moaning at this stage of the new season.
 

Sultan

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I see a lot of posters giving comparisons of how Thomas Tuchel transformed Chelsea after taking over from a so-called rookie in Lampard. Let me point out, we tried this with sacking Moyes with the experience of LvG and then on to Mourinho one of the most decorated coaches in football. It hardly worked.

It's all maybe's if's and buts. No guarantees of success. Yes, I concede the least you can do is give it a go if the present is not working. But I do see an improvement at the moment. We can revisit and evaluate going forward if the season does not go to expectations. But this is not the right time.
 

largelyworried

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I see a lot of posters giving comparisons of how Thomas Tuchel transformed Chelsea after taking over from a so-called rookie in Lampard. Let me point out, we tried this with sacking Moyes with the experience of LvG and then on to Mourinho one of the most decorated coaches in football. It hardly worked.

It's all maybe's if's and buts. No guarantees of success. Yes, I concede the least you can do is give it a go if the present is not working. But I do see an improvement at the moment. We can revisit and evaluate going forward if the season does not go to expectations. But this is not the right time.
I don’t think that now is the time to change manager, simply because I think the squad and manager are good enough for top four this season and you’re right that rolling the dice could make things worse. Equally, I’ve seen enough of Ole over the last three years that have I little hope that we will win that main competitions so it’s hard to be positive overall. At this point it feels most likely that we’ll just drift along a step or two behind the real competitors until eventually we have a run of results bad enough that the manager has to go.
 

gajender

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I see a lot of posters giving comparisons of how Thomas Tuchel transformed Chelsea after taking over from a so-called rookie in Lampard. Let me point out, we tried this with sacking Moyes with the experience of LvG and then on to Mourinho one of the most decorated coaches in football. It hardly worked.

It's all maybe's if's and buts. No guarantees of success. Yes, I concede the least you can do is give it a go if the present is not working. But I do see an improvement at the moment. We can revisit and evaluate going forward if the season does not go to expectations. But this is not the right time.
Problem with this is both managers were clearly in decline we haven't actually tried bringing in a Manager who has been on Rise maybe for once we do that and see how it works.
 

Sultan

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Problem with this is both managers were clearly in decline we haven't actually tried bringing in a Manager who has been on Rise maybe for once we do that and see how it works.
I have heard this argument many times when Sir Alex was even the manager that his coaching was not to the standard of others in Europe. Yet, he won the Champions League twice and was in the final on 2 occasions. Could have won more but some circumstances went against him during his time.

It's an odd statement to say with experience coaches decline. Probably their mentality changes and the way to treat the new generation of players need to be adjusted. As for coaching, If anything, you learn as you age. There have been many coaches who have gone on to be successful in their fields in their latter years.
 

Ayush_reddevil

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The current premier league is probably the highest standard it’s ever been with so many quality managers across the league. I think the frustration most people have is with the fact that for a team & a manager that have been together for 3 seasons now it would be nice to see more of a style of play .

Anytime you mention anything like this you get the answer that we finished xyz in the table last 2 seasons or that look what Jose & LVG did which doesn’t really answer the question about style of play. I still can’t tell you what our basic formation is and there is a reason not many people who write on football tactics talk much about United and no it’s not because they hate United
 
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E-mal

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I have heard this argument many times when Sir Alex was even the manager that his coaching was not to the standard of others in Europe. Yet, he won the Champions League twice and was in the final on 2 occasions. Could have won more but some circumstances went against him during his time.

It's an odd statement to say with experience coaches decline. Probably their mentality changes and the way to treat the new generation of players need to be adjusted. As for coaching, If anything, you learn as you age. There have been many coaches who have gone on to be successful in their fields in their latter years.
I'd opine that the arguement that sir Alex's coaching was sub par compared to others in Europe is not that far from the truth. He is the greatest manager of all time, but in coaching and tactics, I'd perhaps give with a fair few ahead of him.
I'd say the likes of Pep Guardiola and Mourinho actually tactically outwitted him most times.

We never actually transformed tactically as a tram in his later years and post his departure.
This is however no slight on his achievements and impeccable record, I am just talking tactics and a clear style of play.
 

frostbite

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I have heard this argument many times when Sir Alex was even the manager that his coaching was not to the standard of others in Europe. Yet, he won the Champions League twice and was in the final on 2 occasions. Could have won more but some circumstances went against him during his time.

It's an odd statement to say with experience coaches decline. Probably their mentality changes and the way to treat the new generation of players need to be adjusted. As for coaching, If anything, you learn as you age. There have been many coaches who have gone on to be successful in their fields in their latter years.
Honest question: Do you have two or three examples of managers who won nothing till they were 50, but then they won trophies consistently and were recognized as world class in their 60s? I don't know of anyone, that's why I am asking. It is an interesting topic: managers who are late bloomers!
 

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We never actually transformed tactically as a tram in his later years and post his departure.
It looks idiotic now, but when Fergie retired I thought that the one good thing that could come out of it is that we'll move ahead tactically.

Four managers later, we haven't.
 

Amir

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Anytime you mention anything like this you get the answer that we finished xyz in the table last 2 seasons or that look what Jose & LVG did which doesn’t really answer the question about style of play. I still can’t tell you what our basic formation is and there is a reason not many people who write on football tactics don’t talk much about United and no it’s not because they hate United
Since we're in a building stage, I'm more interested in how we play rather than where we finish (3rd or 2nd, because Liverpool have a crap season and standards for 2nd have dropped). I believe it's a better indicator to our ability to actually compete for what the final goal is, which is trophies. And I just don't see it in our play either. We've got better players and better understanding, so clearly we are improving, but it's lacking a key ingredient - the coaching.
 

Ayush_reddevil

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Since we're in a building stage, I'm more interested in how we play rather than where we finish (3rd or 2nd, because Liverpool have a crap season and standards for 2nd have dropped). I believe it's a better indicator to our ability to actually compete for what the final goal is, which is trophies. And I just don't see it in our play either. We've got better players and better understanding, so clearly we are improving, but it's lacking a key ingredient - the coaching.
Exactly. There has been far too much focus on the second place finish which was great but unless you are really competing for the title it doesn’t mean much overall. We were pretty much never in the title race.
 

Sultan

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I'd opine that the arguement that sir Alex's coaching was sub par compared to others in Europe is not that far from the truth. He is the greatest manager of all time, but in coaching and tactics, I'd perhaps give with a fair few ahead of him.
I'd say the likes of Pep Guardiola and Mourinho actually tactically outwitted him most times.

We never actually transformed tactically as a tram in his later years and post his departure.
This is however no slight on his achievements and impeccable record, I am just talking tactics and a clear style of play.
Even without my red-tinted glasses say Pep had better players at Barcelona. We were basically knocked out of both Euro games against Jose teams due to horrendous refereeing mistakes. Scholes scored a perfectly legit goal against Porto and the Nani sending off was similarly wrong against Madrid.

We tend to downplay coaches in the UK and for whatever reason seem to be enchanted by foreign coaches without much evidence of them being any superior. Yes, I concede there will be some exceptions on the continent and beyond.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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The current premier league is probably the highest standard it’s ever been with so many quality managers across the league. I think the frustration most people have is with the fact that for a team & a manager that have been together for 3 seasons now it would be nice to see more of a style of play .

Anytime you mention anything like this you get the answer that we finished xyz in the table last 2 seasons or that look what Jose & LVG did which doesn’t really answer the question about style of play. I still can’t tell you what our basic formation is and there is a reason not many people who write on football tactics talk much about United and no it’s not because they hate United
We have a style of play. It's just not distinct
 

Sultan

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To be fair, this is pretty much a new team assembled with the exception of a few remnants remaining from the past coaches. Again, I repeat let's wait and see how this group play. The money spent should and the players on paper should both entertain and bring home results. If it doesn't happen fingers will inevitably point at Ole.

In the meantime, as fans, we can do no more than supporting the team.
 

NotoriousISSY

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Since we're in a building stage, I'm more interested in how we play rather than where we finish (3rd or 2nd, because Liverpool have a crap season and standards for 2nd have dropped). I believe it's a better indicator to our ability to actually compete for what the final goal is, which is trophies. And I just don't see it in our play either. We've got better players and better understanding, so clearly we are improving, but it's lacking a key ingredient - the coaching.
I take your point on this, but at the same time when you've just added serial winners Ronaldo and Varane to the ranks there comes a point where you have to say this is no longer a building stage. It's time to deliver.

At other clubs, Ole would never have had this much time without a trophy. Obviously his seasonal progression is there to be seen and that affords him some time to deliver the honours, but this year 100% he can't hide behind "building" as far as I'm concerned.
 

sullydnl

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Since we're in a building stage, I'm more interested in how we play rather than where we finish (3rd or 2nd, because Liverpool have a crap season and standards for 2nd have dropped). I believe it's a better indicator to our ability to actually compete for what the final goal is, which is trophies. And I just don't see it in our play either. We've got better players and better understanding, so clearly we are improving, but it's lacking a key ingredient - the coaching.
Yep.

A good example of this is the 17/18 season. We finished 2nd under Mourinho where Liverpool finished in 4th. But it was pretty clear from watching both teams that they were building towards something better than we were based on how they were actually playing. We also bullied Ajax out of the EL final that year, only for them to progress to the CL semi-finals the following season while Mourinho's time here ground to an ignominious conclusion. Because (unsurpringly) beating them with pragmatic Fellaini-based tactics wasn't the best indicator of which team was doing the right things to keep progressing from that point on.

I see a lot of people saying Solskjaer needs to win a trophy this season but in truth I'd be fine with another trophy-less year if we evolved into a side that looked high-functioning in terms coaching and tactics. That would be a better indicator for success next season than, say, being knocked out of the CL but winning a EL title that papers over the lack of any progression outside of playing personnel.
 
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gajender

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I have heard this argument many times when Sir Alex was even the manager that his coaching was not to the standard of others in Europe. Yet, he won the Champions League twice and was in the final on 2 occasions. Could have won more but some circumstances went against him during his time.

It's an odd statement to say with experience coaches decline. Probably their mentality changes and the way to treat the new generation of players need to be adjusted. As for coaching, If anything, you learn as you age. There have been many coaches who have gone on to be successful in their fields in their latter years.
I never said anything about Sir Alex unlike many here I absolutely believe he was a brilliant Coach as well only in his latter years he kind of lost bit of focus maybe due to age . His European record when all things considered is up there with best as well .
Sir Alex was exception to the rule he went out on top if he was bit younger I have no doubt he would have taken the Challenge Posed by Guardiola and other young guns head on and most probably would have bested them as well but Mourinho and Van Gaal aren't in the same league they were clearly past it when we hired them so their tenure should not be used as cautionary tale against hiring the best Managers in the business.
 

Sultan

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Honest question: Do you have two or three examples of managers who won nothing till they were 50, but then they won trophies consistently and were recognized as world class in their 60s? I don't know of anyone, that's why I am asking. It is an interesting topic: managers who are late bloomers!
I'm not sure about winning anything prior to being 50.

However, I can think of a number of managers winning major trophies after passing 50 years of age. Sir Alex, Sir Matt Busby, Guus Hiddink, Wenger, Carlo Ancelotti, Ranieri are just a few recent ones I remember. I am sure you can add to this list. If anything there is very few young managers you can count having been successful in the Premier League/old first division. Most obvious are Jose and Pep. I'm not sure Wenger was younger than 50 when he first arrived.
 

Sultan

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Mourinho and Van Gaal aren't in the same league they were clearly past it when we hired them so their tenure should not be used as cautionary tale against hiring the best Managers in the business.
How would you define a manager/coach as being past their best? Besides judging them on results I can't see an obvious answer. The results or lack of them could have many variables despite the coach being the best in class (Neville's words).
 

Amir

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I take your point on this, but at the same time when you've just added serial winners Ronaldo and Varane to the ranks there comes a point where you have to say this is no longer a building stage. It's time to deliver.

At other clubs, Ole would never have had this much time without a trophy. Obviously his seasonal progression is there to be seen and that affords him some time to deliver the honours, but this year 100% he can't hide behind "building" as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, I was talking more about the last couple of years. Obviously now it's time to deliever without excuses (but they are ready-made anyway: we need midfielders).
 

Beachryan

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The more I think about our squad and the deficiencies in coaching...is there a 'system' where it doesn't really matter?

Pep, Klopp and Tuchel are all about the system, buying players that fit it, adhering to it and being disicplined. But is there another way to success? Go more down the motivated, physically powerful talented group of players that through ability and will can win matches? That feels to me like what we're after here. And tbh it would make sense for Ole to like that - it's how many of Fergie's teams were built. Excellent defence, excellent attack some people in the middle who sometimes connect the two. It's less predictable, less controlled but if you get the right personalities and couple them with the right fitness levels it might work.

I think that's what we have to hope for with Ole and these players. Fred and Pogba are never going to be Xavi and Iniesta. But they can still be an overwhelming force.
 

frostbite

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I'm not sure about winning anything prior to being 50.

However, I can think of a number of managers winning major trophies after passing 50 years of age. Sir Alex, Sir Matt Busby, Guus Hiddink, Wenger, Carlo Ancelotti, Ranieri are just a few recent ones I remember. I am sure you can add to this list. If anything there is very few young managers you can count having been successful in the Premier League/old first division. Most obvious are Jose and Pep. I'm not sure Wenger was younger than 50 when he first arrived.
Yes, these managers had won things before 50, actually much earlier. For example, Sir Matt Busby was born in 1909, won first division in 1952, ie at 43, but he also won the FA cup in 1948 when he was only 39. SAF won the European Cup with Aberdeen when he was 42, the Scottish top division at 39. Wenger won the French first division with Monaco when he was 39.

Most of those who win after 50 also won things when they were younger. If anyone knows of any "late bloomers" who won nothing before 50... I'd be interested to know!
 
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meamth

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AWB was never great in going forward but his defensive contribution had recently gone to the shitters as well. His tackle against Young Boys is the epitome of that. No wonder why Ole wanted Trippier this season.
How many red card he got in his career?

You realize players have form as well right?
 

meamth

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People tend to forget when Ole first came in, we we're top 6 at best. The squad quality was wank.

3 years on, look where we are now. The expectation went from top 4 best to must win the title. He barely acknowledged for that efforts, he brought the pressure to himself and this is when we support them and expect them to deliver.
They say Ole can't improve, but yet he has constantly improved, making those arguments that he can't do it stupid as hell.

The argument about how we play also contradicts to what I've seen so far. There are many games when we play tenacious entertaining football, the lads are fighting for it. Once we lose, draw or play badly, we're suddenly play boring football 99% of the time. That's the issue here. I can't agree to that argument.

Also stupid arguments saying the coaches are awful doesn't fit with the narrative that the players he inherited improved a lot! Fred, McT, Shaw, Lindelof, AWB, all have improved.

Shocking results do happen, can't we chill a bit and come back to January to see whether he should be sacked or not?
 
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The Brown Bull

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AWB was never great in going forward but his defensive contribution had recently gone to the shitters as well. His tackle against Young Boys is the epitome of that. No wonder why Ole wanted Trippier this season.
That’s AWB who took the ball off the line at Wolves?
Yeah right.
 

bond19821982

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Was this a knee jerk thread after a bad result or two?

I have no idea of the work behind the scenes of our coaches. However, I can only assume they will be very competent at their work. Let's start with M Phelen who was appointed by football Don Sir Alex as first-team coach and assistant manager. That's some CV. Kieran Mckenna's work was so impressive Jose elevated him to the first-team staff following the departure of his sidekick Rui Faria. I am not sure about Carrick as a coach. I do know he was a great professional and well respected as a footballer. I do remember Ole saying Carrick not being a yes man, and he wouldn't have it any other way.

That's a lot of coaching experience just to decide the choice of playing styles 4-4-2, 5-4-1, 3-4-3, 4-3-3 and in-game management. We also now have Ronaldo who will obviously have an input. There is so much experience now in the team the players should be able to coach themselves and deal with in-game management. They are no longer apprentices.

I'm not saying Ole or his coaches have always made the right decisions, but as fans, it's easy to criticise substitutions after the events. To be fair, Ole has improved the team year on year and last season we finished second and were pretty close to winning some competitions.

Let's judge him after a major portion of the season. Not when we're top of the league and just lost one game due to a sending off and a mistake by a player in injury time. Yes, if there is no improvement after the season or something drastic happens during the course of the season then it's time for a post-mortem. In the meantime get behind the team.
It was created last year and it wasn't a knee jerk. (Though it was created soon after a match). The post mortem has been happening for over an year now.

Just because Phelan worked with Sir Alex doesn't mean he has to be good with Ole as well, right? Same applies for everyone . SAF could literally make me as assistant and still win the EPL. Again, I have no idea what they do during training. The observations are based on the performances in the game.

Let's take this year - have you been convinced with the way we have been playing? A very honest question? Southampton, Wolves , Young Boys - we were shit.

With Ronaldo, Pogba, Bruno, Sancho - we have to dominate games for 90 mins . Do you think we will do that ? I just don't think so.

Again, this isn't saying sack him now. But he has to come up with ideas to play a dominating game.
 

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Was this a knee jerk thread after a bad result or two?

I have no idea of the work behind the scenes of our coaches. However, I can only assume they will be very competent at their work. Let's start with M Phelen who was appointed by football Don Sir Alex as first-team coach and assistant manager. That's some CV. Kieran Mckenna's work was so impressive Jose elevated him to the first-team staff following the departure of his sidekick Rui Faria. I am not sure about Carrick as a coach. I do know he was a great professional and well respected as a footballer. I do remember Ole saying Carrick not being a yes man, and he wouldn't have it any other way.

That's a lot of coaching experience just to decide the choice of playing styles 4-4-2, 5-4-1, 3-4-3, 4-3-3 and in-game management. We also now have Ronaldo who will obviously have an input. There is so much experience now in the team the players should be able to coach themselves and deal with in-game management. They are no longer apprentices.

I'm not saying Ole or his coaches have always made the right decisions, but as fans, it's easy to criticise substitutions after the events. To be fair, Ole has improved the team year on year and last season we finished second and were pretty close to winning some competitions.

Let's judge him after a major portion of the season. Not when we're top of the league and just lost one game due to a sending off and a mistake by a player in injury time. Yes, if there is no improvement after the season or something drastic happens during the course of the season then it's time for a post-mortem. In the meantime get behind the team.
Players coach themselves. Jeez.
 

meamth

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His defensive ability has been erratic for quite some time now. No wonder why Ole wanted Trippier.
Pretty sure Trippier is for backup or competition to replace Dalot. Like Telles.

Or plan B if we want to put more crosses in.
 

largelyworried

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The more I think about our squad and the deficiencies in coaching...is there a 'system' where it doesn't really matter?

Pep, Klopp and Tuchel are all about the system, buying players that fit it, adhering to it and being disicplined. But is there another way to success? Go more down the motivated, physically powerful talented group of players that through ability and will can win matches? That feels to me like what we're after here. And tbh it would make sense for Ole to like that - it's how many of Fergie's teams were built. Excellent defence, excellent attack some people in the middle who sometimes connect the two. It's less predictable, less controlled but if you get the right personalities and couple them with the right fitness levels it might work.

I think that's what we have to hope for with Ole and these players. Fred and Pogba are never going to be Xavi and Iniesta. But they can still be an overwhelming force.

Honestly I don't think this approach is valid any more. SAF had a supernatural gift for team building and motivation that outstripped any tactical shortcomings ten times over. But that doesn't mean Ole does. Nothing about Ole over the last three years suggests he has a major advantage at creating a positive environment over his rivals. (Indeed our timidity and shortcomings on the biggest of nights might suggest the opposite.) At times we've seen Liverpool and City go out, dominate and swarm all over the biggest of teams. When do we do that? It’s clear they’re have a fire to win. The most we can do is equal that.

Plus SAF also had the ability to find talent and grab it, through a superior scouting network and our financial muscle. Both those advantages are gone for us now. With modern scouting and finances it's basically impossible for a top four club to get a vastly better squad than your rivals, unless they cock things up. The days of having a squad so strong that individual talent alone will win out is gone.

The top four is so competitive now that you can't have weaknesses. Yes you need talented individuals with a fierce determination to win and a strong team ethic. Our rivals have those too. But you also need a tactical approach that can win you games in conjunction with the above. On that we come last out of the top four clubs.
 

meamth

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Honestly I don't think this approach is valid any more. SAF had a supernatural gift for team building and motivation that outstripped any tactical shortcomings ten times over. But that doesn't mean Ole does. Nothing about Ole over the last three years suggests he has a major advantage at creating a positive environment over his rivals. (Indeed our timidity and shortcomings on the biggest of nights might suggest the opposite.) At times we've seen Liverpool and City go out, dominate and swarm all over the biggest of teams. When do we do that? It’s clear they’re have a fire to win. The most we can do is equal that.

Plus SAF also had the ability to find talent and grab it, through a superior scouting network and our financial muscle. Both those advantages are gone for us now. With modern scouting and finances it's basically impossible for a top four club to get a vastly better squad than your rivals, unless they cock things up. The days of having a squad so strong that individual talent alone will win out is gone.

The top four is so competitive now that you can't have weaknesses. Yes you need talented individuals with a fierce determination to win and a strong team ethic. Our rivals have those too. But you also need a tactical approach that can win you games in conjunction with the above. On that we come last out of the top four clubs.
We came 2nd. Fact.

The table is the metric, not what you think you know.
 

devilish

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Pretty sure Trippier is for backup or competition to replace Dalot. Like Telles.

Or plan B if we want to put more crosses in.
Trippier is an English international and a La Liga title winner. He's also in his prime. AWB can't even make it within the England's team and for good reason. He would have ended a backup player not Trippier.
 

Ralph1386

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Honestly I don't think this approach is valid any more. SAF had a supernatural gift for team building and motivation that outstripped any tactical shortcomings ten times over. But that doesn't mean Ole does. Nothing about Ole over the last three years suggests he has a major advantage at creating a positive environment over his rivals. (Indeed our timidity and shortcomings on the biggest of nights might suggest the opposite.) At times we've seen Liverpool and City go out, dominate and swarm all over the biggest of teams. When do we do that? It’s clear they’re have a fire to win. The most we can do is equal that.

Plus SAF also had the ability to find talent and grab it, through a superior scouting network and our financial muscle. Both those advantages are gone for us now. With modern scouting and finances it's basically impossible for a top four club to get a vastly better squad than your rivals, unless they cock things up. The days of having a squad so strong that individual talent alone will win out is gone.

The top four is so competitive now that you can't have weaknesses. Yes you need talented individuals with a fierce determination to win and a strong team ethic. Our rivals have those too. But you also need a tactical approach that can win you games in conjunction with the above. On that we come last out of the top four clubs.
Agreed
 

meamth

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Trippier is an English international and a La Liga title winner. He's also in his prime. AWB can't even make it within the England's team and for good reason. He would have ended a backup player not Trippier.
Pretty sure Trippier won't be picked if TAA is fit.

Both are deemed 3rd or 4th choice RB. It's all come down to the manager's preference.

Also, they both had 6 assists all season. :)