I just want everyone to get behind the team this season, and relax a bit when we lose or draw.Too many sensible posts from you...give it up now
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
- Start date
And then they turned into Gundogan's brilliance!
Why even put KDB on when you can just coach patterns of play and not rely on individual brilliance.
Okay. I don't really understand this 'reliance on individual brilliance stuff'. Yes we do. And we are coached to create situations for our players to show their individual brilliance.
Maybe coaching can be better, maybe not. But our results for the last 2 seasons clearly show that we over performed compared to the relative quality of our squad (when looked at man to man against Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Spurs and even Leicester at one point).
Its not a crime in football for good players to show individual brilliance. Also, it's not like Jose's teams where the whole team defends and then relies on 2-3 moments to show brilliance.
We are very direct and our forwards are encouraged to try the exceptional passes or shots when they can. Thats also a part of coaching.
Where were all these 'moments of individual brilliance' under our previous managers. You think Ole has nothing to do with it?
And, btw don't say he has a better squad because literally that can be said only for 4 games, and no one wins a trophy in the first 4 games of a season.
You aren't going to get that here. Too many entitled fans
City played mid week and rested some of their top players in De Bryune, Mahrez, and foden. They still played much better football then what we produced when we played Southampton. You can also make an argument that city was hurt by not playing without a striker this game, but then I know some United fan will counter argue that we have been playing without a midfield even though Fred and mctominay are natural midfielder. So, I guess what city weakness is without an striker is similiar to our weakness in in holding mid role. Regardless, this argument isn’t about result, but moreso about performance and it is easy to see which team performed better against Southampton,
What about your boy's heroic draw with Club Brugges though?
Did you actually watch the game today? City was exposed to so many counters. They would have lost today if Southampton showed some quality in those moments. Yes, they had positional advantage on the pitch but that was about it. They definitely didn't perform better!
Excuses is fine here, but no excuse for Ole.
So what? They dominating possession for feck all. 1 shot on target showed that even teams with style of play can produce shocking performances. That's what we're trying to argue here.
The agenda against Ole is that, when we failed to win, it's all down to coaching and no style of play. Which is fecking stupid, time and time again.
One again performance metric rather than result. Psg played well, but wasn’t clinical enough. Not sure what this got to do with this conversation though.
yes, I did watch the game. Southampton pressed well and stopped city from building from the back like they typically do. Ederson wasn’t as busy in goal and both side lack predator instinct, in particular man city as grelish and cancelo would put in some good crosses without no one at the end of it. A game like this showcase why the lack of natural striker will hurt Manchester city a lot this season. Not sure why pep put Jesus out wide, so perhaps it was just a bad tactical decision. However, if Jesus and Torres are Manchester city go to strikers, then that problem we saw today will continue unless similiar to last season, the midfielder contributes by supporting runs into the box.
Which team performed better? City had 1 shot on target and failed to score. I could easily argue that we performed better.
Because we have a history under Ole of overplaying players until they're too tired to perform and our form struggles?
And the fact that we've no alternative when the stars aren't performing?
Funny how van Gaal and Jose doesn't have those moment of individual brilliance like you mention and they still manage to average around the same points in the league as Ole.
I just want Ole to have a backup option to when Bruno/Pogba isn't playing well but apparently that seems to be asking for too much.
Ah yes, Man City were so much better than us against Southampton with their 0 goals and 1 shot on goal. Why weren't PSG clinical? Actually, I suppose they only had Messi, Neymar and Mbappe up top.
Agree with all that. Then I guess our only disagreement is that they performed better than united.
I thought the patterns of play were good in that game.
Other teams can learn those from Soto. Their passing all the way to final 3rd was pretty slick.
Other teams can learn those from Soto. Their passing all the way to final 3rd was pretty slick.
That's a fair criticism. This is the nuance that is hard to find on this forum these days. He needs to make subs to give others a chance when these two aren't performing well.
But in all honesty, he didn't have many options. And if Van De Beek wasn't performing well in training (getting bullied of the ball) then I understand his reluctance last season. This season, there will be no excuse. There are many options.
Excuses. Excuses and all I see is yet more excuses.
They were at home and managed 1 shot on target. Pathetic result and performance. You're attempting to dress up a turd.
There is no other way if your rivals have squad on the same level. The differences in quality are not playing a bit role. The system, coaching, however you call it do make a difference.
I do agree with your description of midfield under Fergie, since Ronaldo departure I felt like he didn't care that much about what happens in central areas. I think football changed around that time, more weight was put on midfield and it seems this trend never got to United - and Ole is another example of that.
Following this logic and using extreme example, "pass it to Ronaldo" can be labeled as coaching. You don't need a whole staff to come up with instructions like that, but at the same time, since we do have a bunch of people hired to do the coaching, I'd expect our game to improve with time / games.
Improvement under Ole comes from buying and developing players, he gets all the credit for Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Bruno, Greenwood etc. But that's about it, we're still playing very rigid, simple football. It doesn't work well against well organized teams.
Nothing wrong with relying on individuals to win you games, coaching is required to make a better use of them.
Ole has built a good squad, so in my eyes if we win because of individual brilliance then kudos to him. But I'm pretty sure we're not winning the next Wolves game and once that happens the manager is to blame. I think it's fair.
That is pretty good.
There is the issue right there: somebody talks about a backup option and you immediately look for other players. That isn't what the user meant (i assume). He meant that it would be good if would have a few structures in place to be able to score when our brightest players aren't up to their best.
Nobody was saying that we are the only team in the world to make use of individual talent, that would be stupid especially seeing the talent we have in the team. But todays football isn't only all about individual players or how would you explain the success (especially in creating chances) of teams like Leeds or Brighton last season. Our competitors have that plus great individuals. Sure, that doesn't guarantee wins 10 out of 10 but having these things in place surely increases your chances of success. Hence the trophies Chelsea, City and Liverpool were bringing in. Man United can have success without these things, but why make it harder than it needs to be? Why is it alright to ignore stuff that can increase performances for teams with lesser players?
Are you a local fan?
You honestly have no shame
Atletico Madrid didn't win with 10 men today. Well 'drilled' team also.
But its okay.
But its okay.
He's awesome.
The way some argue, cant tell are they delusional or just trolling.
Probably winding the "football coaching purists" here.
i checked now and realized that brugge had more shot and shot on target than psg.
Oh wow really.
Expect them to say it doesn't matter, stats like that don't matter..it's the way they play!
No but my first United game attended was in 1987. I don't go anywhere near as much as I once did, but living 200+ miles from Manchester and being an old fella with a family these days make it unlikely.
Is jesus not a striker anymore? swore he started the match
They won La Liga last year. They get a few excuses, same.for city, you don't get leeway when your entire existence as a manager has been mediocre at best with no trophies
They sure are. Its one reason why they’re the Champions. Maybe try another example.
Good facts.
City last 3 years umpteen trophies. They are allowed a bad game every now and again. Wish we had their record.
My bad, I didn't count winning in Norway as anything meaningful. (It isn't)
Interesting to see that they all won their first titles in their own national leagues. I guess it's natural to remain (or return) there at the start of their managerial careers before tackling bigger clubs.
I know nobody rates the Norwegian league, but Ole won the league there at 38 and 39 with a team that had never won the league before (the national cup at 40).
Molde also won the league both times the following season Ole left for a bigger gig, so one could argue that they still saw the fruits of his labor in building a long-term squad.
He's 48 now, will be 49 in February, so remains to see if he can bag a big trophy outside of his national league before he turns 50.
Naa. Tonight's game proves Pep is a hack and that Solskjaer knows the right way to play.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
Let's keep sacking managers until someone gives us instant success.
City and Chelsea are husks. We hopefully are different but listening to some of our fans, I'm not sure.
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