We are leaderless and have been for years

[Jinn]

I was thinking a few weeks back with the Spurs game and the kicking that Delle Ali gave Sanchez. He was able to bully our players - not so long ago we would have stood up for ourselves and gave as good as we got. Remember also Mark Noble actually carrying Ander Herrera off the pitch when we played West Ham a few years ago, there is no strength of character in this team in many ways. As soon as we go behind away from home we bottle it completely.

This is correct, but when you look at the make-up of the team we have too many nice guy's.

Mata - would he pick a fight?
Herrera - he will probably put in a tackle here and there, but usually does a flip when someone tackles him.
Martial - nah
Rashford - maybe, nah... too young
Sanchez - he's new, time will tell.
Smalling - will probably start crying.
Jones - nah
Young - probably one of the few in the team to put up a fight.
Valencia - I've never seen him argue about anything.
Matic - his a big oaf wouldn't be able to bully anybody.
Pogba - nah
Zlatan - definitely, too bad he's injured.
Shaw - hell no
Lukaku - not a chance
Bailly - same as Zlatan.

This is most of our first team players...there is no comparison (character wise) with previous first teamers.

It boils down to a sense of pride. It seems to me that they don't get upset when they losing. Usually we used to get a sense that the team was rallying and fighting to get that equalizer. It was like the players felt ashamed of going behind, let alone losing a game.
Now it's like, on to the next one...

 

[Red00012]

Both Neville’s , keane , Vida , Rio weren’t afraid to give a bollocking or be a leader . Nowadays you’re looking at Pogba , Valencia , Jones or smalling to do it there’s no comparison really .

 

[Champagne Football]

We looked great when Bailly and Fellaini were fit. We've been a joke since they've been injured with Mourinho not having a clue now where to play everyone

 

[MrBest]

Who's the leader at City? Just curious.

Pep ... they fight for him. hes like Alexandra the Great

 

[AndyJ1985]

Zlatan is the only one who strikes me as someone who is a worthy captain and he'll probably never play for us again. The fact that Pogba has worn the armbands speaks volumes for the lack of leaders we have. A lazy pillock like that is never a leader.

 

[altodevil]

Pep ... they fight for him. hes like Alexandra the Great

Yeah she has a great pair to be fair.

 

[Jinn]

The difference is that in the past we had a core of British players. Super talented, technically good British players. The sprinkling of foreign players we bought had to learn the "UTD way" from the British guys.
They had to adapt to the mentality of the team as a whole.
It's not the same anymore. It's more like the opposite.

 

[RedPed]

I would go for Herrera if he's still gonna be here in the long term, Sanchez or Bailly. Sanchez is already a level above everybody else in the team and always puts a shift in. I've seen him marshalling the team on the pitch a few times already. The armband certainly wouldn't look out of place on him and would send a clear message to some of the guys who just ain't cutting it at the mo.

 

[poleglass red]

Zlatan is the only one who strikes me as someone who is a worthy captain and he'll probably never play for us again. The fact that Pogba has worn the armbands speaks volumes for the lack of leaders we have. A lazy pillock like that is never a leader.

Nah not for me re Ibra as captain. he doesn't exactly bust a gut himself. What makes him a great striker ie selfishness, single mindedness doesn't make him a great leader. Guys like him thrive on stats. goals per game, chances converted etc and that's fine, it's what they are there for. This team needs and has needed for while, even when Ibra was fit last season is leadership. Keano, Terry and Kompany those guys focus is the team, not individual stats. Ibra's insistence of hitting every free kick we got last season was infuriating at times, esp when most were pure and utter dog shit. A strong personality doesn't always translate to a strong leader. Never been a fan anyway of strikers being captains anyway. Great teams don't necessarily need leaders, City without Kompany don't really have one, but their team is so well drilled and coached they flow. Right now we aren't, we don't know our best 11, our best formation, a genuine leader in the mould of a Robbo or a Keano would be hugely beneficial, players like Pogba and Lukuka in particular look a bit lost at times and a bit of direction from a strong leader would no doubt have helped

 

[sunama]

Starting with the coach!
Mou isn't a great leader, always crying like a kid and throwing own players in front of the bus. Really hope he's gone in the summer - just not the kind of coach a club like United need.

Great post mate, really nailed it down - full of insight and proper knowledge.

In 17 seasons of club management, Mourinho has led his club to win its domestic league eight times, the UEFA Champions League twice and the UEFA Cup/Europa League twice. Between 2003 and 2012, Mourinho did not go a single calendar year without winning at least one trophy.

Dayam. Quizierda got owned.

 

[SkeppyRed]

'Leaders' does not necessarily mean Captains. Leaders lead by example. Who leads by example in our squad? De gea and maybe Valencia. Everyone else's form is flakey.

 

[sunama]

I would go for Herrera if he's still gonna be here in the long term, Sanchez or Bailly. Sanchez is already a level above everybody else in the team and always puts a shift in. I've seen him marshalling the team on the pitch a few times already. The armband certainly wouldn't look out of place on him and would send a clear message to some of the guys who just ain't cutting it at the mo.

I personally think that Valencia is fine. His work rate is unreal.
Even against Newcastle, the guy was working flat out till the end.
His problem though, is that he doesn't speak English and to this day, I don't understand how someone can't pick up English, simply by listening to other people.

 

[unitedforeveral]

Who's the leader at City? Just curious.

Pep doesn't believe in leaders. he believes everybody in the team are responsible for their parts and that's how it is in all the teams but United do not even have that leader who can give them that extra push when down and battered. WE REALLY DO NOT HAVE A SECOND GEAR !!

 

[unitedforeveral]

So, how much is that one going to cost?

probably the title! every time!

 

[unitedforeveral]

'Leaders' does not necessarily mean Captains. Leaders lead by example. Who leads by example in our squad? De gea and maybe Valencia. Everyone else's form is flakey.

De Gea cannot be a leader. He's not that kind. If anyone has a slight chance of being a leader, it's only Pogba and that's when all the 30+ are gone and we have an avg age group of 27-28 at best.

 

[RedPed]

I personally think that Valencia is fine. His work rate is unreal.
Even against Newcastle, the guy was working flat out till the end.
His problem though, is that he doesn't speak English and to this day, I don't understand how someone can't pick up English, simply by listening to other people.

Yeah I think Tony's fine too as he always gives his all on the pitch and the reason you mentioned is the reason I partly didn't include him in my list. I want to see a leader on the pitch putting a rocket up the players if they aren't performing. Would Tony V be able to do that? That would be my only concern.

 

[Raoul]

We will always come up short in these games against the have a go hero teams because we dont have anyone to give the players a bollocking. Keane would have destroyed Smalling for that dive the resultant goal.

Or conversely, we bought into the mythology that we need a leader when there are plenty of successful clubs who don't have one.

 

[Ramshock]

Or conversely, we bought into the mythology that we need a leader when there are plenty of successful clubs who don't have one.

Who is successful that doesnt have a leader or talisman?

 

[Raoul]

Who is successful that doesnt have a leader or talisman?

A leader and a talisman are different things. You don't need a leader to be successful. You need squad solidarity where everyone performs at a high level.

 

[Ramshock]

A leader and a talisman are different things. You don't need a leader to be successful. You need squad solidarity where everyone performs at a high level.

They really arent different things., One can be vocal and one can lead by example. Every top club has had or does have a vocal leader or a leader by example.

 

[Raoul]

They really arent different things., One can be vocal and one can lead by example. Every top club has had or does have a vocal leader or a leader by example.

They are very different. Ruud was a talisman, but not much of a leader. Being a loud, boisterous person who barks instructions at your teammates has never been a prerequisite to winning.

 

[Ramshock]

They are very different. Ruud was a talisman, but not much of a leader. Being a loud, boisterous person who barks instructions at your teammates has never been a prerequisite to winning.

Nah you are wrong, name me a current top team and I will tell you their vocal/leader by example. Talisman probably wrong word but I meant leader by example.

 

[Raoul]

Nah you are wrong, name me a current top team and I will tell you their vocal/leader by example. Talisman probably wrong word but I meant leader by example.

None of today's successful clubs have loud boisterous leaders in the Keane or Gattuso mold. They were outliers.

 

[noodlehair]

I think we lack winners as much as leaders, although you can argue they are the same thing. I don't mean that as an insult to the players we have as such. I just think you need a few people in the squad, with the drive to want to be the best, and also with the arrogance to go with it. They don't necessarily need to be barking orders at anyone.

Zlatan has it, but he's been injured all season and also past his best. I can't really think of anyone else. Sanchez maybe but you never know what a few years at Arsenal can do to a player.

We do have enough players who can easily play in a winning team...just not really any, at the moment at least, who can be the driving force behind it. Doesn't mean that can't change even with the personel we have, but at the moment that's where we're at.

 

[POF]

All this thread shows is that people have no idea what leadership is. Keane was a great leader but it was nothing to do with shouting at people. He set the standard, led by example and when the team was underperforming and needed him he stepped up.

Who are City's leaders? De Bruyne and Silva because they have real determination to win and make the difference when their team needs them. You do need courage as a leader but that isn't fighting people. It can be being brave enough to take on a defender or try a difficult pass to open up a defence. Barcelona have no leader? People don't see Messi as a leader?

You don't have to be physically strong to be a leader. But you do need to inspire others through your actions. A leader is someone the team looks to for inspiration when the team is struggling. United definitely don't have one and it is a huge problem.

 

[eat_grass]

We'd have won those games if we scored more goals than the opposition. We didn't.

City manage it every week, however. Liverpool scored five last night. City scored four the night before.

They didn't do that because they had true leaders. They did it because they are well-coached attacking sides that other teams struggle to defend against.

There's more than one way to win a game (i.e., to score more goals than the opposition), and each of those games could (should) have been won had a leader been on the pitch.

This incessant love affair some of you have for Pep, City, and other United rivals is appalling.

 

[diplomat]

There's more than one way to win a game (i.e., to score more goals than the opposition)

There is no other way to win a game, other than scoring more than the opposition. If you don't do it, the best result you can hope for is a draw.

 

[Acole9]

The only leader in the City squad is Kompany and he's on borrowed time now.

 

[davidmichael]

Thing is how many genuine leaders are there in football these days ? Off the top of my head I’d say Messi, Ramos, Bonucci and Thiago Silva would be the only real leaders I can think of.

The days of a team having multiple leaders seems to have gone and I don’t think we’ll ever see us have an era like we did with Schmeichel, Bruce, Robson, Keane, Hughes and Ince or VDS, Rio, Gary Neville, Vidic, Evra, Scholes and Giggs.

I do believe though that we need a proper captain that starts every week and can try and become a leader as having multiple captains simply isn’t working, I don’t actually care if it’s Pogba or Bailly or Sanchez but it has to be a first choice player that will play every week.

 

[eat_grass]

There is no other way to win a game, other than scoring more than the opposition. If you don't do it, the best result you can hope for is a draw.

Lol. I'll rephrase it for you: "There is more than one way to score more goals than the opposition."

 

[minoo-utd]

Ashley Young.

 

[Quizierda]

Dayam. Quizierda got owned.

Oh yeah, I really did...
Listing past achievements has always helped to assess current/future success. I could also list that I won a math contest in primary school still this wouldn't mean that I would win any other math contest in the future.

For me Mou has failed and we saw it again against Newcastle, Huddersfield (yes, I know we won this one - wohoo!) and yesterday against Sevilla. There's no improvement whatsoever and we play like a relegation side against mediocre teams (at best). If this is the type of football people would like to see from United ok but for me this is just a shame.

If someone has a different opinion that's fine as it is the main reason for being on a football forum.

 

[Lawman]

Dier from Spurs would help in this department.

 

[fallengt]

They don't need someone to yell at them how to string 3 passes together.

Even under Moyes, players didn't shit themselves this much Something is wrong in training