Who was City's great leader when winning their last treble?
'We are starving for leaders on the pitch": has Amorim just exposed the true scale of the problem facing United
- Thread starter fastwalker
- Start date
Rodri of course
Leading doesn't have to be the Stevie me way, it could just be taking responsibility on the pitch. In that sense I feel Rodri, Stones and De Bruyne were all leaders. Same for Walker from a defensive stand point.
Gundogan too. He was the chosen captain of that squad (selected by his own colleagues)
I feel like leader overlaps a lot with "best player" here. Our "leaders" would probably be Bruno and Amad.
Good shout.
It’s not that we don’t have leaders—it’s that our leaders either carry the scars of past failures, like Bruno, Shaw, and Maguire, or seem to be coasting on their reputations, like Casemiro, Eriksen or maybe even De Ligt. You can’t expect to steer the club through tough times with individuals who are either emotionally drained or look like they’ve already checked out.
The best way forward is for the club to move on from this group of leaders entirely and start fresh. Either build around players cut from a different mold or go back to trusting the youth, as we’ve done so successfully in the past. At least they’d bring some hunger and a clean slate, which is exactly what we need to turn the page.
The best way forward is for the club to move on from this group of leaders entirely and start fresh. Either build around players cut from a different mold or go back to trusting the youth, as we’ve done so successfully in the past. At least they’d bring some hunger and a clean slate, which is exactly what we need to turn the page.
We need to get over this "trust the youth" thing. Just because we had one golden generation come up through the academy once, that doesn't mean that this is a viable general approach that you can turn to at any time, if only you choose to have "trust". You can rebuild a squad with an emphasis on youth, as Chelsea has been doing (and like Matt Busby did, for that matter), but that's not about trusting the youth, it's just about recruiting players that are primarily good enough, and secondarily also young. It doesn't work because you got young players, it works because you got good players.
True. It's basically just good players who are consistent. And that's what Amorim want. When we're good again, we'll say the team is "full of leaders".
De Bruyne is certainly a leader by example
Of course. He's been a good player and consistent also.
A leader is obviously a loose and subjective term, but there's more to it than simply being good. Haaland for example is clearly a good player, but not a leader. If the team plays badly, he will often disappear. Its more about the ability to push yourself to high levels of performance simply through your own internal drive, and the consequent impact that has on players around you. Players like that can turn games and inspire others to similar heights.
SAF did not just "trust" the youth the throw them into the team. When the class of 92 were slowly introduced into the team, we had leaders like Cantona, Keane, Ince, Pallister, Bruce and Schmeichel.
Over the years subsequently the class of 92 themselves grew into leaders and led the next generation of youngsters like O'Shea, Evans, Wes Brown, Fletcher, Da Silva brothers, Rooney, Chicharito, Welbeck, Cristiano etc. They passed on and guided the young players on what it means to be a United player and what it means to play for the shirt. Towards the end of SAF's reign we had VDS, Ferdinand, Vidic, Carrick, and Rooney as core leaders in the team.
Unfortunately in recent years we had the likes of Pogba and Jesse Lingard who were introduced at a time with no stronger senior characters to rein in their behaviour. Is it then any surprise to see where Rashford picked up the undesirable behaviours from?
Amorim's message here was absolutely spot on and it got the exact reaction we needed - Maguire, Bruno and Martinez (those guys who should be our leaders) massively stepped up against Liverpool when in the past we've seen them totally lose their heads. Dalot made a comment as well after the game which sounded like it had resonated with him (he said he was 'pinched' by the comment) and it got him to step up too.
We haven't had these guys acting like leaders on the pitch and the dressing room for too long, and they will have known that they are exactly the ones Amorim was calling out with this message. If they can keep this up, it will be huge.
We expect way too much of the likes of Hojlund, Garnacho, Yoro, Amad and Mainoo - they're still at such a formative stage of their career so it's hugely important that the more experienced members of the squad step and be leaders to take the pressure off them and give them time to develop and have the space to make mistakes.
Some like Casemiro and Rashford seem to have failed to responded positively to the message, and we'll be better off without them if they're not willing to rise to the challenge. Licha, Bruno, Dalot and Maguire absolutely did in the Liverpool game though and we need them to keep it up if we're going to turn the culture in the club around.
We haven't had these guys acting like leaders on the pitch and the dressing room for too long, and they will have known that they are exactly the ones Amorim was calling out with this message. If they can keep this up, it will be huge.
We expect way too much of the likes of Hojlund, Garnacho, Yoro, Amad and Mainoo - they're still at such a formative stage of their career so it's hugely important that the more experienced members of the squad step and be leaders to take the pressure off them and give them time to develop and have the space to make mistakes.
Some like Casemiro and Rashford seem to have failed to responded positively to the message, and we'll be better off without them if they're not willing to rise to the challenge. Licha, Bruno, Dalot and Maguire absolutely did in the Liverpool game though and we need them to keep it up if we're going to turn the culture in the club around.
As the famous story goes, in 1995, SAF shocked everyone by selling Ince, Kanchelskis, and Hughes, two of them key leaders at the time. It was a bold move, but it paved the way for the Class of ’92 to truly shine in their breakout season. Keane, who was just 24 years old btw, stepped into a leadership role, making him younger than Mount, Martinez, or Rashford in today’s squad.
Ferguson’s approach to leadership transitions didn’t stop there. He kept players like Scholes, Gary Neville, and Giggs as the team’s backbone, but when the time came, he moved on from big names like Keane, Beckham, and Butt to make room for younger talents. He handed leadership to players like Rooney, Vidic, Ferdinand, and Ronaldo, who were all still relatively young but ready to lead.
The lesson is clear. The current team needs a similar reset. Players like Rashford, Bruno, and Shaw have struggled to lead the team forward. It’s time to put faith in players like Martinez, who already shows leadership qualities, and highlight promising young talents like Mainoo and Garnacho.
It feels like a cultural reset.
When an organisation is having trouble with direction over a long period, people go into preservation mode as they realise their efforts fall on flat ears.
This is just a call to say, raise your standards and management will support it.
Those who are still invested will renew application and others will leave.
When an organisation is having trouble with direction over a long period, people go into preservation mode as they realise their efforts fall on flat ears.
This is just a call to say, raise your standards and management will support it.
Those who are still invested will renew application and others will leave.
I've been saying this for a while. United could do with scouting the length and breadth of the country for the next midfield general, a Keane/Robson type who can drive the team forward, make simple passes to attack minded players, or put a tackle in when needed. Must be able to battle when things go against us.
For United not to have a player like this for so long is simply shocking.
For United not to have a player like this for so long is simply shocking.
So all need to do is get the next Keane or Bryan Robson? Can we not also get the next Messi while we’re at it?
This was such a clever statement. Straight out from Fergie's mindgames book.
Yeah, sometimes you need to make statements like this to lay down a challenge. Those with strong mentalities and leadership instincts will endeavour to prove that they are, and can be, one of the leaders.
It was a challenge, very clever
Absolutely. Mindgames is the wrong word for it though. More like laying down the challenge as you said to see which players are ready to give their all. But it was in a such delicate moment. Awful, worst 45 minutes of football under him against Newcastle at OT and going away to Anfield and Emirates seemed scary prospect at the time.
Just a great way to rally the troops and shows he might have brilliant man management skills. Something Sporting fans already suggested.
The players were always going to be focused against Liverpool and Arsenal. The pleasing thing tonight was the amount of fight they showed after going down to 10 men.
But now they need to show the same focus and grit for the rest of January. Southampton, Brighton, Rangers, and Fulham. Apart from Rangers the other 3 games could be seen as a bit dull.
Show the same leadership and mentality against those teams and then we can start congratulating the players.
But now they need to show the same focus and grit for the rest of January. Southampton, Brighton, Rangers, and Fulham. Apart from Rangers the other 3 games could be seen as a bit dull.
Show the same leadership and mentality against those teams and then we can start congratulating the players.