We badly need some mid and long range passers in this team

[Fortitude]

The amount of times a player is wide open screaming for the ball with their hands up with absolutely no chance of the pass coming their way is a shame. No Pogba, zero chance of these type of passes being hit more than two times a game by anyone else in our team.

The dynamic of a game changes so much if the opposition have to have half an eye on the wide man if there are players in the team who can find him and, further, play him into a threatening position.

Our players know they can't hit those passes so they either turn back on themselves, seek a really simple and safe option, or even worse, an option that actually puts the player receiving the ball into trouble.

Even if it is not to be Pogba (or actually, what would be best is Pogba and another) it's an attribute in midfield we sorely lack and it is a restriction for a team that is trying to break quickly and exploit pockets of space how so ever they may arrive. Well! They're right there! We just can't pass to them!

 

[Relevated]

We can't solve this because sporting have asked for a few million that we don't wanna give them. Try again next time.

 

[Will Singh]

Basically the fundamentals of a football team.

 

[a_devil_inside]

We miss Pogba for this, even Rojo too a bit

 

[ivaldo]

We can't solve this because sporting have asked for a few million that we don't wanna give them. Try again next time.

20mil is a 'few million' is it?

 

[LVGSdive]

This is an excellent topic. I noticed a lot of people criticism of Liverpool playing long balls. Even though they looked like excellent long passes that split our defence wide open to me.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

The amount of times a player is wide open screaming for the ball with their hands up with absolutely no chance of the pass coming their way is a shame. No Pogba, zero chance of these type of passes being hit more than two times a game by anyone else in our team.

The dynamic of a game changes so much if the opposition have to have half an eye on the wide man if there are players in the team who can find him and, further, play him into a threatening position.

Our players know they can't hit those passes so they either turn back on themselves, seek a really simple and safe option, or even worse, an option that actually puts the player receiving the ball into trouble.

Even if it is not to be Pogba (or actually, what would be best is Pogba and another) it's an attribute in midfield we sorely lack and it is a restriction for a team that is trying to break quickly and exploit pockets of space how so ever they may arrive. Well! They're right there! We just can't pass to them!

Does not help when the angles they pass from are terrible. Passing a long ball from directly behind the player makes it a lot more difficult than it needs to be for everyone involved.
LCB Maguire trying a through ball to LW Rashford. Stupid. It is not only in short passing that angles are important.

 

[Relevated]

20mil is a 'few million' is it?

an additional 20 million to fix a lot of our problems is absolutely fine when they've been scrooging and stealing the clubs money since theyve been here.

 

[Catt]

Bring back Rooney and Valencia.

 

[Jibbs]

Just get Fernandes and Neves, along with Soumare.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Does not help when the angles they pass from are terrible. Passing a long ball from directly behind the player makes it a lot more difficult than it needs to be for everyone involved.
LCB Maguire trying a through ball to LW Rashford. Stupid. It is not only in short passing that angles are important.

It's not just the long passes directly forward. A lot of the time one of our fullbacks, usually Wan Bisaka, will push forward onto the wing in acres of space and no one will switch the play to him. They just pass it around the midfield until it's lost. Matic did this several times in the second half today.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Bring back Rooney and Valencia.

the long slow pass followed by the shuffle like he's going to actually run down the wing then the pass back inside to start all over. Those were the days.

 

[joedirt87]

They love getting themselves trapped near the touch lines

 

[Josep Dowling]

I agree but I think players have to stop being so safe. There were so many times where players simply being so slow meant we couldn’t progress up the pitch. AWB had so much space in the second half yet no one would pick him out.

And there was the James pass in the first half for Martial, it wasn’t a particularly difficult ball either.

 

[Stadjer]

Bring back Rooney and Valencia.

Why not ask Scholes and Beckham if they are up for some games!

 

[Rozay]

We have the best long/mid range passer in the game on the treatment table. I think we need a top short range passer even more right now.

 

[Fortitude]

We have the best long/mid range passer in the game on the treatment table. I think we need a top short range passer even more right now.

You cannot have one single player in an entire squad capable of consistenly hitting the balls that were on all game today.

These players get lambasted for their lack of movement, but we never talk about the acres of space they work themselves into only to be completely overlooked time and time and time again.

It was ridiculous to see our midfielders, in particular, completely reticent, or just outright incapable of finding men who would have been open to really alleviate pressure by both progressing the play themselves and forcing the opposition to then hold their runs and be wary of said player whether the ball actually comes their way or not.

Also, with no threat of switching play, we become a lot easier to press as the extra men can come further inside knowing no pass over them is coming.

We need passers both short and long, but if we're really to set our attackers free and enable them to make tricky runs away from the ball, that threat over the top has to be paramount.

 

[ivaldo]

an additional 20 million to fix a lot of our problems is absolutely fine when they've been scrooging and stealing the clubs money since theyve been here.

And then we pay an extra £20mil every time we want to sign someone. There's a lot of things wrong with the board/owners, but rejecting this simple truth is just plain stubbornness.

 

[Relevated]

And then we pay an extra £20mil every time we want to sign someone. There's a lot of things wrong with the board/owners, but rejecting this simple truth is just plain stubbornness.

What makes you say that? What are you basing your assumption on? Wouldn't this logic apply with the transfer of Maguire since we overpayed for him?

Your comment is based on the assumption that we will cave into the transfer demands of every single club we deal with only because we overpay once. That wouldnt happen.

 

[Rozay]

What makes you say that? What are you basing your assumption on? Wouldn't this logic apply with the transfer of Maguire since we overpayed for him?

Your comment is based on the assumption that we will cave into the transfer demands of every single club we deal with only because we overpay once. That wouldnt happen.

It wouldn’t be the first time we’ve over paid. I think the idea is that we don’t want to do it anymore.

 

[Rozay]

You cannot have one single player in an entire squad capable of consistenly hitting the balls that were on all game today.

These players get lambasted for their lack of movement, but we never talk about the acres of space they work themselves into only to be completely overlooked time and time and time again.

It was ridiculous to see our midfielders, in particular, completely reticent, or just outright incapable of finding men who would have been open to really alleviate pressure by both progressing the play themselves and forcing the opposition to then hold their runs and be wary of said player whether the ball actually comes their way or not.

Also, with no threat of switching play, we become a lot easier to press as the extra men can come further inside knowing no pass over them is coming.

We need passers both short and long, but if we're really to set our attackers free and enable them to make tricky runs away from the ball, that threat over the top has to be paramount.

This is all true. The centre halves should be doing this more, and a central midfielder at a top club who can’t spread the play is a bit embarrassing tbh.

 

[Neo_Mufc]

Interesting thread.

I remember when we signed Michael Carrick.

At that time we were crying out for someone to be able to ping those balls around because Scholes had an eye injury in 2005 (IIRC) which cost us dearly and we needed to brace ourselves for when Scholes would retire.

I remember G.Nev making a run down the wing and the crowd shouted to Carrick to play it to him. He pinged the most lovely ball to him and we all clapped and I remember thinking "Yes this is what we signed him for".

Today there was many opportunities to ping that ball to AWB out on the wing, but we just didn't have the player to do it (Don't want to blame Fred because he was a machine today).

In the second half as well. James moved out to the left and many times he had created space and all we needed was for someone to drill/cross a ball or 2 to him and who knows what would have happened.

Tis a long way to the top looking from so far down. Jeez.

 

[Jibbs]

In today's game there was an occasion when Martial was free, James had the ball, instead of long ball, he choose to make a long pass and was intercepted. Had there been a better passer of the ball, he'd have send the long ball to Martial over the head of last defender.

 

[WR10]

Rashford has nailed those recently.

However, we are missing Pogba's technical toolbox of stunning defense splitting passes. The ease at which he can spray creative passes is unrivaled in our team currently.

 

[ivaldo]

What makes you say that? What are you basing your assumption on? Wouldn't this logic apply with the transfer of Maguire since we overpayed for him?

Your comment is based on the assumption that we will cave into the transfer demands of every single club we deal with only because we overpay once. That wouldnt happen.

Yes, it would apply to Maguire. Which is precisely why we continuously find ourselves in this situation. You've literally just given another example, so it's hardly just the once. £50mil for AWB? £53m for Fred?

Maybe it doesn't. So that just means we miss out on important targets in the future. It isn't 'a few million,' it's 20mil. That's a hell of a lot to overpay by. Despite their obvious faults, this isn't one of them.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Bring back Rooney and Valencia.

the long slow pass followed by the shuffle like he's going to actually run down the wing then the pass back inside to start all over. Those were the days.

 

[Gasolin]

In today's game there was an occasion when Martial was free, James had the ball, instead of long ball, he choose to make a long pass and was intercepted. Had there been a better passer of the ball, he'd have send the long ball to Martial over the head of last defender.

A long pass is a low pass for you? You got me confused for a moment mate haha. Yes that should have been a ball that has to fall right in front of Martial.

 

[RedDevil@84]

We badly need some proper passers in the team. Who can pass to their own team mates when they need it. As opposed to passing to opposition or give an absolute impossible pass.

 

[King7Eric]

It's not just the long passes directly forward. A lot of the time one of our fullbacks, usually Wan Bisaka, will push forward onto the wing in acres of space and no one will switch the play to him. They just pass it around the midfield until it's lost. Matic did this several times in the second half today.

I think the reason AWB finds himself in so much space is because the opposition affords him that much space, because they know it's easy to defend against him if he gets the ball. Yesterday Robertson was coming inside so much because he was basically inviting Utd to pass it to AWB, because his attacking output is basically zero and he's easy to defend against. This is also the reason Utd players try not to give him the ball unless they've exhausted all other options, as they know the attack will inevitably break down.

 

[SteveW]

It was truly shocking at times watching the likes of Williams and AWB standing in acres of space while none of our CMs had the confidence to even try a cross field pass to them.

Martial and James make run after run and the ball never comes. People really underestimate the difference a good passer will make to this team.

 

[Fortitude]

I think the reason AWB finds himself in so much space is because the opposition affords him that much space, because they know it's easy to defend against him if he gets the ball. Yesterday Robertson was coming inside so much because he was basically inviting Utd to pass it to AWB, because his attacking output is basically zero and he's easy to defend against. This is also the reason Utd players try not to give him the ball unless they've exhausted all other options, as they know the attack will inevitably break down.

Even though what you're saying is true, Bissaka has no qualms or hesitation in getting rid of the ball once received instead of trying to do anything with it himself.

If we hit him with any kind of frequency, he would still have to be tended to lest he brings more dangerous players inside him into play.

Teams that play against us can assess the likelihood of our players being able to hit passes over a certain distance and completely ignore the open man knowing full well he won't be found and played in.

It's a different dynamic to have so few active frames during an attack or when in possession of the ball - tactically, it makes setting up for us elementary and formulaic as we're then having to deal with more bodies on the press than should be there instead of second guessing their positioning and the open man they've left to roam between the lines. In other words, we're not keeping opposing sides honest and ultimately, it's costing us.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah, apart from Pogba none of our players can play long passes. We can't switch the attack with one pass, it usually flows from FB to CM1 to CM2 to FB which means it's just pointless. We need players who can play those diagonal passes and switch the point of attack. We don't create 1v1 chances with FBs.

 

[Fortitude]

Yeah, apart from Pogba none of our players can play long passes. We can't switch the attack with one pass, it usually flows from FB to CM1 to CM2 to FB which means it's just pointless. We need players who can play those diagonal passes and switch the point of attack. We don't create 1v1 chances with FBs.

What bothers me is the predictably of what you've mentioned - just as we know the routine, so too do opposition coaches and they can prepare for it and squeeze the life out of players in the chain knowing we either go through what you described, or, we pass sideways or backward and reset ourselves whilst enabling an onslaught as the opposition then press us or stand in our basic passing lanes... which in turn, causes even more panic and hesitation.

Another byproduct is that our forwards stop making dynamic runs away from the ball, which obviously makes them easier to mark and track and exacerbates the static movement people complain that we have - even our players can assess how probable it is that they will become 'live' in a passing chain by way of how far the ball is from where they're standing.

 

[Pughnichi]

It's not just the long passes directly forward. A lot of the time one of our fullbacks, usually Wan Bisaka, will push forward onto the wing in acres of space and no one will switch the play to him. They just pass it around the midfield until it's lost. Matic did this several times in the second half today.

This! It was maddening to see

 

[Jibbs]

A long pass is a low pass for you? You got me confused for a moment mate haha. Yes that should have been a ball that has to fall right in front of Martial.

Sorry forgot to add low there. That's what happens when I write in excitement.

 

[roonster09]

What bothers me is the predictably of what you've mentioned - just as we know the routine, so too do opposition coaches and they can prepare for it and squeeze the life out of players in the chain knowing we either go through what you described, or, we pass sideways or backward and reset ourselves whilst enabling an onslaught as the opposition then press us or stand in our basic passing lanes... which in turn, causes even more panic and hesitation.

Another byproduct is that our forwards stop making dynamic runs away from the ball, which obviously makes them easier to mark and track and exacerbates the static movement people complain that we have - even our players can assess how probable it is that they will become 'live' in a passing chain by way of how far the ball is from where they're standing.

Yeah agree with this. Our forwards made good runs but none of the players had quality to play the passes, which tbh wasn't very hard passes.

We had Scholes and Carrick who used to ping passes from deep and create 1v1 chances for wingers so many times, now without Pogba we don't have 1 player who can do that. We should sign player who can do that.

 

[Fortitude]

It's not just the long passes directly forward. A lot of the time one of our fullbacks, usually Wan Bisaka, will push forward onto the wing in acres of space and no one will switch the play to him. They just pass it around the midfield until it's lost. Matic did this several times in the second half today.

I was watching him do that thing where he looks up, sees the wide open man, thinks on whether he can make the pass before assessing in his head that he can't whilst doing that little shuffle thing before he turns in a circle and does something else instead. There was one time he did that 3 times in a row. You're willing him, like baby's first steps, to just try and make the pass!
But he never does, bless him.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so harmful to us. Matic is far more comfortable trying passes along the deck than he is with anything over 35 yards that has to go aerially. I wonder why he's so hesitant. I don't even know if he can or cannot hit those passes because he won't even challenge himself to try them.

 

[Greck]

an additional 20 million to fix a lot of our problems is absolutely fine when they've been scrooging and stealing the clubs money since theyve been here.

This is how we ended up with Maguire for 80m

 

[elmo]

20mil is a 'few million' is it?

Compared to the Adidas money we're losing, it is.

 

[King7Eric]

Even though what you're saying is true, Bissaka has no qualms or hesitation in getting rid of the ball once received instead of trying to do anything with it himself.

If we hit him with any kind of frequency, he would still have to be tended to lest he brings more dangerous players inside him into play.

Teams that play against us can assess the likelihood of our players being able to hit passes over a certain distance and completely ignore the open man knowing full well he won't be found and played in.

It's a different dynamic to have so few active frames during an attack or when in possession of the ball - tactically, it makes setting up for us elementary and formulaic as we're then having to deal with more bodies on the press than should be there instead of second guessing their positioning and the open man they've left to roam between the lines. In other words, we're not keeping opposing sides honest and ultimately, it's costing us.

All your points have validity. I think it's a self fulfilling prophecy at this point. The CMs don't attempt to play cross field passes to FBs because they aren't confident in the FBs ability to make something of the situation. So the CMs attempt those balls very rarely and the less they attempt them, the less confident they are in their own ability to pull such passes off.