We finished 3rd: PL 2019/20

[romufc]

But we got 1 point, Chelsea got 0. Chelsea domiated the game better than we did, but lost the game. We didn't dominate the game the same way Chelsea did, but still did infinitely better points wise. Which is the kind of run and results since January that have put us in the position we're in.

Good for us Yay.

If fans are happy with that performance, that was not a performance I would be proud of as a fan. It was horrible at home to West Ham.

This is exactly the stuff Jose was delivering, crap football. I am not saying Ole is always doing this but the last 4 games have been rubbish.

We have been lucky that our forwards are so talented and are scoring worldies.

We are crap at working a goal
We are crap at set pieces
We are overly reliant on individual skill.

 

[cyberman]

West Ham did beat Chelsea. Even though they lost the game, they dominated the game alot better than we did. We conceded possession to West Ham whereas V Chelsea they could only play on the break.

Just to show you the two games match stats:

https://www.premierleague.com/match/46969

https://www.premierleague.com/match/46924

Chelsea had 70% possession we had 57%

Again, West ham had 270 passes V chelsea compare to 441 V United.

So no, we did not dominate that game at all, even shots on goal tell you when West Ham had more than United.

I disagree on we were better, I thought if there was a team who will win the game it would be West Ham. They came to play for the draw, if they wanted the win, they would have won that game.

Which Chelaea game is being discussed here? West Ham beat Chelaea twice this season. Soulless, possession based football isnt dominating a match.
West Ham barely troubled David last night

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Good for us Yay.

If fans are happy with that performance, that was not a performance I would be proud of as a fan. It was horrible at home to West Ham.

This is exactly the stuff Jose was delivering, crap football. I am not saying Ole is always doing this but the last 4 games have been rubbish.

We have been lucky that our forwards are so talented and are scoring worldies.

We are crap at working a goal
We are crap at set pieces
We are overly reliant on individual skill.

I'm not happy with the performance, but I'm not as sad as some about the result. It's not all doom and gloom. If we draw everytime our competitors lose, and win everytime they win, we'll win the league.

 

[romufc]

Which Chelaea game is being discussed here? West Ham beat Chelaea twice this season. Soulless, possession based football isnt dominating a match.
West Ham barely troubled David last night

Against West Ham 3 weeks ago.

I agree possession for sake of it isnt dominating a match. How often did we work Fabianski?

 

[El Zoido]

Good for us Yay.

If fans are happy with that performance, that was not a performance I would be proud of as a fan. It was horrible at home to West Ham.

This is exactly the stuff Jose was delivering, crap football. I am not saying Ole is always doing this but the last 4 games have been rubbish.

We have been lucky that our forwards are so talented and are scoring worldies.

We are crap at working a goal
We are crap at set pieces
We are overly reliant on individual skill.

Do you have selective memory? No team is amazing every single game, sometimes the performance isn’t there. We had plenty of games like this under Fergie as well. “Sack Fergie, sell Giggs” became a meme for a reason. We expect to win every home game, but we would have previously consider a draw at West Ham to be a solid result. These days unless we win 4-0 with a scintillating performance the “should Ole be sacked” thread explodes. We go unbeaten for 18 games or whatever, winning 14 and drawing 4, scoring 35 goals and conceding six, yet one defeat and everyone loses their minds. The standards are impossible.

 

[romufc]

Do you have selective memory? No team is amazing every single game, sometimes the performance isn’t there. We had plenty of games like this under Fergie as well. “Sack Fergie, sell Giggs” became a meme for a reason. We expect to win every home game, but we would have previously consider a draw at West Ham to be a solid result. These days unless we win 4-0 with a scintillating performance the “should Ole be sacked” thread explodes. We go unbeaten for 18 games or whatever, winning 14 and drawing 4, scoring 35 goals and conceding six, yet one defeat and everyone loses their minds. The standards are impossible.

No, I agree with you and I have not called for Ole to be sacked. No team is amazing, I get that but you need to get results too.

Fregie won us titles, even when he didn't we challenged. When Fergie got battered by a team 3 days before the next game we were called a "wounded animal". If Fergie lost the way we did to Chelsea, West Ham would have come in for a hiding. So please do not compare Fergie with what is going on here at United now, there are 0 similarities.

It isnt about one defeat, it is about the performance of the team. We have been poor for the last 4 games.

 

[cyberman]

Against West Ham 3 weeks ago.

I agree possession for sake of it isnt dominating a match. How often did we work Fabianski?

For the goal!
It honestly looked like 2 teams happy with the draw.

 

[romufc]

For the goal!
It honestly looked like 2 teams happy with the draw.

Which is worrying.. manutd being happy with a draw at home.

 

[Flexdegea]

It’s true, just reading this thread title made me feel a little guilty for my mood and criticisms after today’s game. In all reality; we are third, nobody has any game in hand on us, and it has been a phenomenal 2020 effort to claw ourselves back into this position. We have showed title-contending form for a few months now, and the squad is pushed to the limit, but we should feel proud of all of them.

Great post.


Good few people should take this attitude.


The boys have done well to get to this position. It's not a trophy but considering where we were last year, seemed no chance of a high finish.


1 game to go

 

[Champ]

There some absolute crazy thoughts going on here.
Is a point good enough for a home game against bottom half opposition? In usual circumstances no, but when it puts you third and in with a great shout of a top three finish then yes it is.
It's all down to perspective.

It's funny how when teams like City play poorly yet get a result it's a case of 'thats what good teams do' yet when United do it it's 'we are poor,'.

Just played the league's form team and got a vital point, do the same Sunday and we get a top four finish.

 

[Siorac]

There some absolute crazy thoughts going on here.
Is a point good enough for a home game against bottom half opposition? In usual circumstances no, but when it puts you third and in with a great shout of a top three finish then yes it is.
It's all down to perspective.

It's funny how when teams like City play poorly yet get a result it's a case of 'thats what good teams do' yet when United do it it's 'we are poor,'.

Just played the league's form team and got a vital point, do the same Sunday and we get a top four finish.

On here, we usually say "fecking jammy cnuts are still riding their luck even after spending the GDP of a mid-sized country" when that happens.

 

[fps]

Shows how mad the points tallies are this year, last year 66 points was only good enough for 6th. You could easily finish 3rd with 64 points which must be one of the lowest in modern times for 3rd place.

If ever there was a season that gave a new manager at a big club a chance, this has been it. Lampard and Ole (they sound like a high end lighting company) have been fortunate to have this season as their first main ones. From such luck big things can develop....

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Which is worrying.. manutd being happy with a draw at home.

Didn't Ole say something about us being satisfied with a draw since it was basically the same as a win

 

[Strelok]

It’s true, just reading this thread title made me feel a little guilty for my mood and criticisms after today’s game. In all reality; we are third, nobody has any game in hand on us, and it has been a phenomenal 2020 effort to claw ourselves back into this position. We have showed title-contending form for a few months now, and the squad is pushed to the limit, but we should feel proud of all of them.

Agreed.

Just a year ago when we're down 1-0 it was usually game over. Sometime the players looked like they ain't give a sht. That's what I hate the most.

Now they always fight hard until the bitter end and never lose heart. I'm proud of them.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

We definitely seem to be improving but my god the rest of the league must be shit

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Didn't Ole say something about us being satisfied with a draw since it was basically the same as a win

He was right though. Once the game looked like being tight, the difference between a win and a draw became irrelevant. Beating West Ham six or seven nil might have meant we could afford to lose to Leicester but a last minute winner wouldn’t have changed anything. We would still need to avoid defeat on Sunday.

 

[cyberman]

Which is worrying.. manutd being happy with a draw at home.

When a win changes very little then theres nothing wrong with it.
I wouldn't chastise the side if it were a CL tie and a draw got us through, which is basically the same thing as last nights game.
Chasing a goal at 2-0 makes sense, it makes a massive difference. But chasing a 1 goal win when it changes very little wouldnt be very prudent in the grand scheme of things

 

[Rozay]

He was right though. Once the game looked like being tight, the difference between a win and a draw became irrelevant. Beating West Ham six or seven nil might have meant we could afford to lose to Leicester but a last minute winner wouldn’t have changed anything. We would still need to avoid defeat on Sunday.

Exactly. The only real value would have perhaps been psychological going into such a big game.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Good for us Yay.

If fans are happy with that performance, that was not a performance I would be proud of as a fan. It was horrible at home to West Ham.

This is exactly the stuff Jose was delivering, crap football. I am not saying Ole is always doing this but the last 4 games have been rubbish.

We have been lucky that our forwards are so talented and are scoring worldies.

We are crap at working a goal
We are crap at set pieces
We are overly reliant on individual skill.

Exactly this.

If it was Jose or LVG delivering that inept performance against West Ham there would be no thread going ‘ We’re 3rd’ wooooo.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

He was right though. Once the game looked like being tight, the difference between a win and a draw became irrelevant. Beating West Ham six or seven nil might have meant we could afford to lose to Leicester but a last minute winner wouldn’t have changed anything. We would still need to avoid defeat on Sunday.

He’s wrong though. As a win would’ve dragged Chelsea into it, now Chelsea would have to lose last game instead of a draw putting them out

 

[Siorac]

He was right though. Once the game looked like being tight, the difference between a win and a draw became irrelevant. Beating West Ham six or seven nil might have meant we could afford to lose to Leicester but a last minute winner wouldn’t have changed anything. We would still need to avoid defeat on Sunday.

Had we won, a Chelsea draw would mean we're in the CL even if we lose to Leicester. Now if Chelsea get as much as a point against Wolves, we are fecked. I'd be a lot more hopeful if Chelsea had to win, not just avoid defeat.

 

[roonster09]

He was right though. Once the game looked like being tight, the difference between a win and a draw became irrelevant. Beating West Ham six or seven nil might have meant we could afford to lose to Leicester but a last minute winner wouldn’t have changed anything. We would still need to avoid defeat on Sunday.

Win would have changed a lot tbh. Win means Chelsea had to go for a win vs Wolves, now all they need is draw. So by not winning vs West Ham we have eliminated one of the possibilities for top 4.

Win vs West Ham - Top 4 if we lost vs Leicester and Chelsea failed to win
Now - If we lose vs Leicester, Chelsea only need a draw.

Chelsea result is not something in our hands, so in a way it's true on what our task is but with win we would have added 1 more possibility of top 4.

 

[redshaw]

Didn't Ole say something about us being satisfied with a draw since it was basically the same as a win

He did in his post match interview.

Trouble is, if we lose at Leicester and Chelsea draw with Wolves we are out of the top four. With a win last night against West Ham and a loss at Leicester we'd be through if Chelsea and Wolves draw.

We had a relegation team which was safe from the drop at home and Ole says to his team at half time just win the second half and a draw is the same as a win when it isn't.

We now face a team that's been in the top 4 most of the season with a big prize of CL football just by winning a game.

United have played 8 games and not lost yet but we're probably due a loss, I hope we don't but if we do then we need Wolves to beat Chelsea. A win last night would've solved that problem.

 

[Loon]

Hope we turn up vs Leicester

 

[theklr]

I thought this was going to be a positive thread

there is no such thing in here.

Maybe, just maybe if we finish 3rd and win Europe league we can see it.

 

[Offside]

It is a very good way of measuring progress. Obviously 4th is 4th, and 4th is higher than 5th, everyone knows that. However, looking at the points total, you can easily see if there is progress season to season. Obviously, comparing now to 10 years ago would be a bit of a madness, considering that the game has changed and so has the league. But it can be easily compared with the last 2-3 seasons to see if we are better or worse.

Compared to Moyes' season (our worst record) it is probably a bit too far, though if we don't beat that record, then it is gonna be one of those bad historical records. It probably does not say much though. What says more instead is that at best possible case, we will finish with the same amount of points as last year when for half of the season we had a manager sabotaging the club, and during the fight for UCL spots, we won 2 points in the last 5 matches. So over the course of the entire season, it has been absolutely awful. Of course, it might be a happy ending cause the others fecked up even more, but there is not much to build for the next season, same as how it wasn't for Chelsea when they won UCL (they won it primarily cause other teams fecked up, not cause they played well).

The only silver lining is that it has been a story of two halves, with the second half being actually very good, arguably the best since SAF left. Unfortunately, we seem to be in a mission to feck it up in the end. And unfortunately, the season gets evaluated in the entire season, as do the UCL spots.

No it’s not. A points total is purely in context to that season. Completely ridiculous way to compare progress. Only league positions are.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We need a win to keep top 3. I think Chelsea going to smash Wolves.

 

[Champ]

We need to win to get third,
Had we beaten West Ham we'd still have needed to win to get third.
Third should be our aim, not scraping through against Leicester to get top four.

 

[el3mel]

It is a very good way of measuring progress. Obviously 4th is 4th, and 4th is higher than 5th, everyone knows that. However, looking at the points total, you can easily see if there is progress season to season. Obviously, comparing now to 10 years ago would be a bit of a madness, considering that the game has changed and so has the league. But it can be easily compared with the last 2-3 seasons to see if we are better or worse.

Compared to Moyes' season (our worst record) it is probably a bit too far, though if we don't beat that record, then it is gonna be one of those bad historical records. It probably does not say much though. What says more instead is that at best possible case, we will finish with the same amount of points as last year when for half of the season we had a manager sabotaging the club, and during the fight for UCL spots, we won 2 points in the last 5 matches. So over the course of the entire season, it has been absolutely awful. Of course, it might be a happy ending cause the others fecked up even more, but there is not much to build for the next season, same as how it wasn't for Chelsea when they won UCL (they won it primarily cause other teams fecked up, not cause they played well).

The only silver lining is that it has been a story of two halves, with the second half being actually very good, arguably the best since SAF left. Unfortunately, we seem to be in a mission to feck it up in the end. And unfortunately, the season gets evaluated in the entire season, as do the UCL spots.

Great post. I agree. Max points we'll reach will be 66 which is simply very poor and not good enough in any season. If we get 3rd I'll be very happy, since we had a dreadful first half of a season but it definitely won't tell the full story. This is the same points we gathered in previous season when we finished 6th. Get this again next season and are anyone expecting us to be 3rd again ?

This season has been god awful but the good thing is we saw a period of great form recently before Saints game which hopefully might mean next season we'll be much better.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Usually I agree but we were absolutely turd last night, barely created anything, only one team looked like winning and that is really worrying.

Oh yeah we were terrible, but you’d think we were 4-0 down after ten minutes.

 

[Dominos]

He was right though. Once the game looked like being tight, the difference between a win and a draw became irrelevant. Beating West Ham six or seven nil might have meant we could afford to lose to Leicester but a last minute winner wouldn’t have changed anything. We would still need to avoid defeat on Sunday.

A win gave us a lifeline if we lost our last game. It meant Chelsea would have to win their game to overtake us. Now they only need a draw against Wolves if we lose our game.

I hope it ends up being irrelavant, but it's certainly not irrelevant as it stands.

 

[Glorio]

No, I agree with you and I have not called for Ole to be sacked. No team is amazing, I get that but you need to get results too.

Fregie won us titles, even when he didn't we challenged. When Fergie got battered by a team 3 days before the next game we were called a "wounded animal". If Fergie lost the way we did to Chelsea, West Ham would have come in for a hiding. So please do not compare Fergie with what is going on here at United now, there are 0 similarities.

It isnt about one defeat, it is about the performance of the team. We have been poor for the last 4 games.

SAF did have bad runs though. Of results and performances too.
Not saying Ole is SAF or anything close, but a run of bad games is not alien to this club. There was a time towards the end of the days with an aging Scholes and a slow Carrick that any team that had the boldness to attack us by carrying the ball through the middle just went through us like a hot knife through butter. They caught on quickly and we ended up surviving game after game by the skin of our teeth.

Then remember having to manage John O'Shea in midfield? ... Those were some hard times!

 

[Nicoseth]

As several people have posted, we've done amazingly well to get back to 3rd and when it matters too. Post-lockdown we were a bit spoiled too with some excellent football so many of us feel a little deflated after the last couple of results. We'll get it done on Sunday - the players will be fired up and Leicester have to come at us which usually suits us. Up the reds!

 

[VidaRed]

SAF did have bad runs though. Of results and performances too.
Not saying Ole is SAF or anything close, but a run of bad games is not alien to this club. There was a time towards the end of the days with an aging Scholes and a slow Carrick that any team that had the boldness to attack us by carrying the ball through the middle just went through us like a hot knife through butter. They caught on quickly and we ended up surviving game after game by the skin of our teeth.

Then remember having to manage John O'Shea in midfield? ... Those were some hard times!

I shit you not but I'd take O'Shea in a heartbeat today. He was not as shite as its made out and is certainly better than the likes of lingard.




And here's o'shea nutmegging figo for good measure

 

[Zoo]

Not bad not bad

 

[Revan]

 

[Squeaky Bumtime]

Deservedly so.

 

[onemanarmy]

Never in doubt.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

20LEGEND

 

[sammsky1]

WooHoo!!!

3rd