We lack basic technical ability

[Problem-free Philosophy]

I don’t get if this is sarcastic. Pep would get this side playing like City - they wouldn’t be as good but they’d play a similar system and dominate the ball. That is literally what the coach is paid to do.

It was sarcastic.

What evidence do you have for that? The coach is paid to get the best results he can out of the squad available to him. In Guardiola's case, he can almost guarantee a squad full of not only excellent players, but players that suit his style of football, specifically. That's certainly the case in City, who were recruiting with him in mind before he even got there. Their players are highly technical and consistent, allowing them to function in tight spaces and their players (including defenders) suit the high press that is crucial to them dominating the ball.

It's worth remembering that until he invested heavily in his defenders, he couldn't even get City playing the way City do, certainly in terms of results. That's not an accident, it's a highly demanding style of football that can only be implemented by having an excellent set of players at your disposal. Those that suggest he can go to any team and have them playing the same style of football are living in a fantasy, as there's simply nothing to suggest that's the case.

Now whether he could be a success at us longer term, with an opportunity to recruit the right players, is another discussion entirely. But I've seen nothing much from our management/recruiting structure to suggest that would be the case either.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It was sarcastic.

What evidence do you have for that? The coach is paid to get the best results he can out of the squad available to him. In Guardiola's case, he can almost guarantee a squad full of not only excellent players, but players that suit his style of football, specifically. That's certainly the case in City, who were recruiting with him in mind before he even got there. Their players are highly technical and consistent, allowing them to function in tight spaces and their players (including defenders) suit the high press that is crucial to them dominating the ball.

It's worth remembering that until he invested heavily in his defenders, he couldn't even get City playing the way City do, certainly in terms of results. That's not an accident, it's a highly demanding style of football that can only be implemented by having an excellent set of players at your disposal. Those that suggest he can go to any team and have them playing the same style of football are living in a fantasy, as there's simply nothing to suggest that's the case.

Now whether he could be a success at us longer term, with an opportunity to recruit the right players, is another discussion entirely. But I've seen nothing much from our management/recruiting structure to suggest that would be the case either.

I don’t really understand your point. If you want to debate whether Guardiola could win trophies at United, that’s a different conversation. I will say this forum seems to think have we are up against the wall and have some weird collection of Sunday league footballers but we have great technical players - Ole’s system just deploys two of the weaker ones as a double pivot, which impacts almost all our build up play, and aside from McFred (and of them McT is hardly bad technically) you then have AWB and who else? Rashford, Greenwood, Shaw, Pogba, Bruno, Matic, Maguire, Lindelof, Cavani, Telles, Mata, Martial, VdB are all good or great technically. The difference is the roles they play not their individual ability.

My point, though, is we would play like them, not as good, but we’d replicate the style because that’s what Pep coaches and believes in. That’s what most coaches do - impart their philosophy onto a team.

 

[Problem-free Philosophy]

I don’t really understand your point. If you want to debate whether Guardiola could win trophies at United, that’s a different conversation. I will say this forum seems to think have we are up against the wall and have some weird collection of Sunday league footballers but we have great technical players - Ole’s system just deploys two of the weaker ones as a double pivot, which impacts almost all our build up play, and aside from McFred (and of them McT is hardly bad technically) you then have AWB and who else? Rashford, Greenwood, Shaw, Pogba, Bruno, Matic, Maguire, Lindelof, Cavani, Telles, Mata, Martial, VdB are all good or great technically. The difference is the roles they play not their individual ability.

My point, though, is we would play like them, not as good, but we’d replicate the style because that’s what Pep coaches and believes in. That’s what most coaches do - impart their philosophy onto a team.

My point is simply that there's nothing I can see to suggest that Guardiola would get better (i.e. judged objectively, more wins) football with United's current squad than Ole has. I expect people to counter that by pointing at Guardiola's vastly greater track record, but my argument has always been that he's had a level of squad quality, depth and recruitment throughout his career that has been difficult to match. It doesn't undermine his achievements in any way, but it's apples and oranges. Just to avoid pissing off the Guardiola fan club too much, I don't for a second want to suggest that Ole would be capable of getting the current City squad playing as they do, either. I appreciate your point about playing to match his philosophy, it's just that my assumption was that without results to back it up it wouldn't be seen as a good/better thing for very long.

I'm biased, as I don't see Guardiola as very pragmatic. He has his philosophy/system/ideas and gets a squad full of excellent players ready to implement it. If the players aren't right the system can't (and doesn't) work yet, as you point out yourself, that system/philosophy doesn't seem to change. When people criticise our coaching (presumably based on playing style and results) and point elsewhere, most are clearly implying that they think Guardiola and co. could come in and do 'better'. I just disagree. I believe Guardiola trying to implement his style of football at United would be doomed to failure and I'm basing that on Guardiola's own track record at times when he hasn't had every piece of the puzzle in place.

Happy to admit that it's all hypothetical and I could well be horribly, horribly wrong - as is often the case! It just irks me when people seem to claim as fact that Guardiola could get 'more' out of United's squad than evidently more pragmatic managers.

 

[Ranchero]

We lack basic technical ability?? We also lack a top striker. But we are second in the league... And if we win our two games in hand will be eight points behind City.