We lack basic technical ability

Glideman

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
406
Didn’t we just win and are 5 points clear in 2nd or am I missing something?
 

passing-wind

Full Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
3,041
Fred's position today dictated much of the tempo, he's far too limited in possession to occupy so much responsibility. I don't think Ole will instruct the midfield to be proficient enough in possession therefore it will take replacing the likes of Fred with better quality.
 

ivaldo

Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Messages
28,699
I often wonder whether those same posters who relentlessly criticize our ability to break teams down actually watch matches we aren't involved in. With the exception of City, every single complaint we see here on a near daily basis by maniacs like that cartwheel guy, can be levied at every team in the league. We watch Chelsea get dismantled by West Brom and struggle to break teams down (13 goals in 10 games), but you can bet your arse they'll hold him up as a bastion of good football the moment they scrape another win. His system and the ability of his players will be praised and the cognitive dissonance of criticizing both the players and the manager of a team sitting in second with the second best goal difference will be blissfully ignored, despite claiming we would never make top 4 at the beginning of the season.
 

Irwin99

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
9,124
Yes the team who are second in the league lack technical ability that all the other teams have.

Ffs
That's not really the point to be fair. The reason we're second in the league is because the players fitness and explosive attacking transitions are, generally, second to none and we have two very good centre backs with a midfield that covers them well and works as hard as anyone. The mentality is excellent too.

Personally I don't think people have too much to complain about but It's not bad mouthing to say that the style leaves a bit to be desired though. Our football in Jose's second season was pretty dull but effective too.

2nd in the league and a Europa League final would be a very successful season if you count this as a 'rebuild'.
 

Poborsky's hair

Full Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
1,720
Supports
Bohemians 1905
Yep. Fred and AWB both being 50m players and utterly rubbish technically is ridiculous.
Again this stupid hate against Fred and AWB, AWB was fine today even though nothing special. He's still young and has plenty of time to reach his potential while being pretty reliable player. It's only now when Shaw raised his bar finally to show his class, otherwise he's one of the 7/10 fullbacks who were solid and did nothing going forward except few runs. Wait for him, he will develop, otherwise well soon have Laird fighting for the same spot soon.

and Fred one of our best player easily today. Won the most ball, covered so much ground for Pogba and for second balls, started counter attacks, but what the hell you know about football right. This forum looks sometimes full of these 13 year old kids who always wanted to be Ronaldo because he scores goals but don't know that there is obviously someone who has to win the ball for him otherwise he's got no service.
 

Longshanks

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
1,752
I dont think we lack basic technical ability but we do lack high end technical ability to be able to play at the tempo that Ole wants us to play at and take the risks he wants us to take with our passing, that we do lack.

It's why we need a DM with a top technique and passing range and a top quality CF/RW because they are the most obvious holes on the team that dosent seem to have the quality to be able to Play 'OleBall'.
 

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
29,333
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
That's not really the point to be fair. The reason we're second in the league is because the players fitness and explosive attacking transitions are, generally, second to none and we have two very good centre backs with a midfield that covers them well and works as hard as anyone. The mentality is excellent too.

Personally I don't think people have too much to complain about but It's not bad mouthing to say that the style leaves a bit to be desired though. Our football in Jose's second season was pretty dull but effective too.

2nd in the league and a Europa League final would be a very successful season if you count this as a 'rebuild'.
The OP isn't about style. It says our players lack basic technical ability when compared to other teams.
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
17,281
Again this stupid hate against Fred and AWB, AWB was fine today even though nothing special. He's still young and has plenty of time to reach his potential while being pretty reliable player. It's only now when Shaw raised his bar finally to show his class, otherwise he's one of the 7/10 fullbacks who were solid and did nothing going forward except few runs. Wait for him, he will develop, otherwise well soon have Laird fighting for the same spot soon.

and Fred one of our best player easily today. Won the most ball, covered so much ground for Pogba and for second balls, started counter attacks, but what the hell you know about football right. This forum looks sometimes full of these 13 year old kids who always wanted to be Ronaldo because he scores goals but don't know that there is obviously someone who has to win the ball for him otherwise he's got no service.
Name another full back as awkward and uncomfortable on the ball as AWB at a top side. This is the sort of thing you develop as a youth player, not as a 50m full back.

What the hell I know is in that for a central midfielder for Manchester United his ability on the ball is laughable. Will we revisit the Leicester game? Outside of his work rate and energy Fred just isn’t good enough. If he played for Brighton, Fulham, Newcastle etc we wouldn’t be clamouring to sign him.
 

Park's Petrified Pooch

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
Messages
147
Coming from a creative background, I believe we lack coaching. I have to operate creatively in a changing environment. It’s high pressure. When the creative aspect of my role is escaping me, I fall back on sound technical fundamentals to get by. This is where I believe we are failing. The coaching is poor. Good coaching in football means that when the players are not inspired to create something, the technical and trained aspects of their play are still sound. People are in the right positions, the next pass is easy to see, because it’s reflexive. It does not require thought. When players can rely on this aspect of play, then the other areas which are more creative and off the cuff are a layer of polish on top. Technical married with the creative is where genius lives. It’s the reason I think Pep’s football is so empty and soulless. It’s all technical and no maverick creativity. The only time he’s had that in his teams was with Messi. Who is a pure genius. The rest of his teams are a dire watch. I’ve ranted. Not sure this makes sense. But we are severely lacking in sound fundamentals and technical basics.
 

432JuanMata

Full Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
3,094
Location
Dublin
Nar, technically we're better, some of the first touches from us tonight have been superb. Other sides, like Brighton are just drilled to feck, we aren't and any who thinks we are has their heads in the clouds.
This is spot on. Some posters underrate our players we have some of the most technically gifted players in the world in our squad. The question marks are over the way they are drilled to play.
 

432JuanMata

Full Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
3,094
Location
Dublin
Name another full back as awkward and uncomfortable on the ball as AWB at a top side. This is the sort of thing you develop as a youth player, not as a 50m full back.

What the hell I know is in that for a central midfielder for Manchester United his ability on the ball is laughable. Will we revisit the Leicester game? Outside of his work rate and energy Fred just isn’t good enough. If he played for Brighton, Fulham, Newcastle etc we wouldn’t be clamouring to sign him.
I actually agree about Fred. The one thing I’ll give AWB is that we have no RW what so ever and it’s been that way for years. He is not great going forward but it doesn’t help having nobody decent in front of him so I’ll save my judgement until we fix the RW
 

simplyared

Full Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
4,349
Location
somewhere ouside the UK
Ridiculous thread. Shaw, Maguire, Bruno, Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood all have technical ability. That's the least thing we need to improve on. We already have it throughout the team!
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
406
Location
Norway
-We lack basic technical ability
-We lack coaching
-We lack a solid defense
-We lack a top striker
-We lack quality on CM
-We need a right winger
-Our manager is tactically inept
-We are 2nd in the league
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
29,262
Location
Birmingham
Could we have more technicians? Yes, most definitely, but I refuse to accept a team in second place lacks 'basic technical ability.

Just another thread where another fan is underrating our team, and before anyone quotes me, I do agree we need to add more players but we're certainly not as bad as people make out.

We know what we need to do to improve our team/squad, yet people would still prefer to buy a 150M striker instead of bringing in those creative technicians to take us to the next level.
 

OrcaFat

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,657
A few players are a little less able, technically, than we would like, yes, and I do think it is a problem in CM. Pogba in form is fine but Fred and McT cause us to lose possession a lot and that needs looking at.

As usual, half the posts in this thread are trying to blame this and everything else on the coaching (and managing?! Holy Feck). The very same coaching and managing that has us clear 2nd in the table (which, okay, ain’t good enough for some people but whatever).

Brighton may be a well-drilled team but they looked pretty shite to me and I’d much rather be us than them. Fred, for example, would probably improve the Brighton team but we all have to understand that Fred, for all his qualities, would still be a technically limited player and no amount of coaching will significantly change that.

In a bizarre alternate reality where Ole leaves and Potter gets the job, he lasts exactly five minutes, hounded out by nutters expecting him to get Fred playing like Zidane.
 

lsd

The Oracle
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
10,784
I know we ban posts in the players performances thread during a match perhaps we should ban them here as well to stop garbage threads like this soon as we go a goal down
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
16,977
A few players are a little less able, technically, than we would like, yes, and I do think it is a problem in CM. Pogba in form is fine but Fred and McT cause us to lose possession a lot and that needs looking at.

As usual, half the posts in this thread are trying to blame this and everything else on the coaching (and managing?! Holy Feck). The very same coaching and managing that has us clear 2nd in the table (which, okay, ain’t good enough for some people but whatever).

Brighton may be a well-drilled team but they looked pretty shite to me and I’d much rather be us than them. Fred, for example, would probably improve the Brighton team but we all have to understand that Fred, for all his qualities, would still be a technically limited player and no amount of coaching will significantly change that.

In a bizarre alternate reality where Ole leaves and Potter gets the job, he lasts exactly five minutes, hounded out by nutters expecting him to get Fred playing like Zidane.
Did you feel the same way under Jose in 2017-2018?
 

Bondi77

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
7,203
Fred has shocking technique and I am quite surprised about Cavani as I thought his would be a lot better, Pogba looks good technically in some aspects but his ball striking is inconsistent. Mason, Luke and Bruno look like they have the best techniques and it is hard to judge VDB as I rarely see him touch the ball.
 

Real Name

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
14,139
Location
Croatia
Thread started in another sense and then become a thread about criticising Ole between the lines and with one poster calling him a PE teacher. Beautiful.
Not to mention guys who can't stop complaining about our apparent bad coaching saying nobody talks about that.
Couldnt make it up.
 

Wolverine

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
2,448
Location
UK
Occasionally do play good stuff. And there's examples of good passes, dribbles, first touches that suggest technical proficiency. But its the consistency, the laziness, the sloppiness that's the problem. Also think we have a creativity problem at times with some glaring weak spots from an attacking point of view (right back for example, some of the players that come off the bench).
 

OmarUnited4ever

Full Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
3,425
I've seen Fred do everything, from dribbling past players, controling the ball nicely and executing beautiful through passes, I have seen him feck up loads too.

I've also seen AWB do wounders with the ball at his feet, I've seen him feck up too.

So if you are asking do our players have the basic technical ability on the ball, I'd say they do, some of them are actually highly technical like Bruno, Pogba and Shaw, Martial on his day is a wizard on the ball, Greenwood is two footed, Matic manipulates the ball so good too, Mata is a magician, and Rashford has shown us what amazing things he can with the the ball on his feet.

Just because you see these players feck up with simple passes and touches many times during the game does not mean they lack basic technical ability.
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
17,374
Guardiola would have this squad playing like City don't you know? Because coaching.
I don’t get if this is sarcastic. Pep would get this side playing like City - they wouldn’t be as good but they’d play a similar system and dominate the ball. That is literally what the coach is paid to do.
 

OrcaFat

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,657
Being happy with being 2nd while being miles being 1st. Same as with Jose.

That was my question.
I’m not happy about that. I just don’t blame the coach for some of the players being technically inadequate.

To be clear, I’m not happy to be 2nd and several points away from being first. But I am happy that we are getting more points than last year and I am enjoying watching the team. When 2nd under Jose I was less happy; by the end, the players seemed out of control and Jose was visibly rattled. But I’m pretty sure no-one was expecting Jose, at any point, to imbue the likes of Fellaini with top class technique.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
51,446
Location
Manchester
I find it bizarre the OP @Walrus has been on the Caf posting in the general forum after the game but hasn't said anything at all positive about the second half display, or result itself, anywhere.
 

OrcaFat

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,657
But we are winning more this season. Make of that what you will.
A lot of teams do the basics very well. It’s easier to knock it about and make pretty patterns if you aren’t expected to win. Every week.

LVG did okay in some ways but his philosophy prioritised basic possession football over everything else. He would probably have our squad looking more technically proficient but he wouldn’t improve technically deficient players he would just leave them out.

We do win more now and I think that if LVG came back we would start winning less again. That’s not say we don’t need better technical players - we do - but they all have to have more to their game than good technique.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
31,029
-We lack basic technical ability
-We lack coaching
-We lack a solid defense
-We lack a top striker
-We lack quality on CM
-We need a right winger
-Our manager is tactically inept
-We are 2nd in the league
In a season where quite a few big teams are underperforming. Especially Liverpool and Chelsea.

The truth is somewhere in the middle as usual
 

Marwood

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
4,251
I've seen Fred do everything, from dribbling past players, controling the ball nicely and executing beautiful through passes, I have seen him feck up loads too.

I've also seen AWB do wounders with the ball at his feet, I've seen him feck up too.

So if you are asking do our players have the basic technical ability on the ball, I'd say they do, some of them are actually highly technical like Bruno, Pogba and Shaw, Martial on his day is a wizard on the ball, Greenwood is two footed, Matic manipulates the ball so good too, Mata is a magician, and Rashford has shown us what amazing things he can with the the ball on his feet.

Just because you see these players feck up with simple passes and touches many times during the game does not mean they lack basic technical ability.
Equally just because a player can sometimes do something special doesn't mean they're highly technical.

I think the true marker of top technique is consistency. So even when they're not playing well their touch and passing is still there.

I'd say Maguire, Shaw and Mata are in that category. Maybe Lindelof.

The rest are all over the place, which to me is proof their technical ability is lacking. They might make up for it with other assets but it's still the case.

I think using the phrase "basic technical ability" confuses the debate a bit. Obviously they can do basics. It's more about touch and passing being good enough to break down a well drilled team.

The caveat to all this is Bruno. He's just confusing. Better at forty yard passes than four yard passes.