We need a bona fide DoF. 2021 version.

Bastian

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What were the protests about? Sure, the Super League proposals triggered them, but there were quite a few issues addressed by supporter groups. The common denominator is the terrible way in which this club has been run. They've installed Fletcher as Technical Director, briefed in the media as the people person when it comes to recruitment, and they've installed John Murtough as a Football Director, whose role is to be the glue between the different football departments.

And then we have the obvious scenario unfolding now that the only plan was to hope Ole would turn into SAF and there is no succession plan. There is no plan of what type of manager to go for, as there is no underlying vision the club has. Even though Ole doled out his empty rhetoric of DNA, attacking football, Man United way, we've all seen a manager who has only been comfortable on the counter. So there is no actual vision in place. And if rumours are anything to go by, the spectrum of managers linked means there is nothing coherent about it either.

The worst part of it all is that it seems to be Woodward, Arnold and Joel Glazer who are making the call on managerial appointments.

The club has not been modernised and professionalised. That Athletic piece on people at most (significant) levels learning on the job is bang on. Woodward stepping down means f all when it's just another clone coming in instead.
 
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arthurka

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Nothing has changed, new names brought in by the same twats. No way anything will change here, we will sack Ole in the end but the same ritual will repeat it self.
 

MUFC OK

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The board: “hmm that sounds like a lot of work.. but look, fletch is having a kick about in training!”
 

Adnan

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What were the protests about? Sure, the Super League proposals triggered them, but there were quite a few issues addressed by supporter groups. The common denominator is the terrible way in which this club has been run. They've installed Fletcher as Technical Director, briefed in the media as the people person when it comes to recruitment, and they've installed John Murtough as a Football Director, whose role is to be the glue between the different football departments.

And then we have the obvious scenario unfolding now that the only plan was to hope Ole would turn into SAF and there is no succession plan. There is no plan of what type of manager to go for, as there is no underlying vision the club has. Even though Ole doled out his empty rhetoric of DNA, attacking football, Man United way, we've all seen a manager who has only been comfortable on the counter. So there is no actual vision in place. And if rumours are anything to go by, the spectrum of managers linked means there is nothing coherent about it either.

The worst part of it all is that it seems to be Woodward, Arnold and Joel Glazer who are making the call on managerial appointments.

The club has not been modernised and professionalised. That Athletic piece on people at most (significant) levels learning on the job is bang on. Woodward stepping down means f all when it's just another clone coming in instead.
It's now that the recruitment structure will be tested imo when the hunt for the new Head Coach begins. I don't believe the job is as difficult as some of our fans are making it to be. But this potential Solskjaer sacking was always a possibility and a lot of us fans predicted this was gonna happen. I also predicted people would lose their minds when things got bad with Solskjaer and would blame everyone and their Dog.

We've never been in our current position when it come to structural support and I believe we should be patient and allow the 5 or 6 guys heading the football structure to select the new candidate. It will be the first time that they'll be in a position to do that.
 

AussieDevil

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Rangnick possibly ?

It won’t ever happen but throw an open cheque to Michael Edwards, he is leaving Liverpool at the end of the season.
 

JB7

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What were the protests about? Sure, the Super League proposals triggered them, but there were quite a few issues addressed by supporter groups. The common denominator is the terrible way in which this club has been run. They've installed Fletcher as Technical Director, briefed in the media as the people person when it comes to recruitment, and they've installed John Murtough as a Football Director, whose role is to be the glue between the different football departments.
The protests had literally nothing to do with the football side of the club and you well know it, stop trying to create a link that does not exist.
 

amolbhatia50k

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The fact that SAF is still influencing decisions tells you how incompetent our current decision making personnel are. Instead of getting someone with pedigree in we hand our roles to novices like Fletcher and the other guy.
 

Rash Decision

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It's now that the recruitment structure will be tested imo when the hunt for the new Head Coach begins. I don't believe the job is as difficult as some of our fans are making it to be. But this potential Solskjaer sacking was always a possibility and a lot of us fans predicted this was gonna happen. I also predicted people would lose their minds when things got bad with Solskjaer and would blame everyone and their Dog.

We've never been in our current position when it come to structural support and I believe we should be patient and allow the 5 or 6 guys heading the football structure to select the new candidate. It will be the first time that they'll be in a position to do that.
It’s always nice to read your posts, especially when they’re a bit more optimistic than the general doom and gloom on the forum (which I contribute to). Based on the media briefs and leaks coming out now, do you believe that this football structure is equipped to, and will be allowed to do its job? Because the names being bandied about (that I’ve seen) are still Joel Glazer, Woodward, Arnold, and SAF.
 

Adnan

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Rangnick possibly ?

It won’t ever happen but throw an open cheque to Michael Edwards, he is leaving Liverpool at the end of the season.
We should learn from the ridicule that Edwards suffered at Liverpool before Klopp arrived.
 

Teja

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Rangnick possibly ?

It won’t ever happen but throw an open cheque to Michael Edwards, he is leaving Liverpool at the end of the season.
Wait what? This is actually good news. Where is he going?
 

Sky1981

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Nothing has changed because we kept on doing stupid stuff like finding the next saf, finding united ways etc when everyone and their dog are doing what logically simple : hire the best manager available. And if it doesnt work, sack and repeat until it works.

We're trying to be a smart arse with our approach of "squad building", "rebuilt", "needs time", "long term", "deadwoods", "tradition, etc while being taken like a mug by 4 schadenfreude and we all lapping it up like a puppy. We are the only top club that needs 3-4 years for rebuilt no matter who the manager. While other top teams changes manager like diapers and still gets result and plays like a proper team.

So until throw away romantism, hold our hands up, and accept that what we do is blooody puritans and it doesnt work we'll bound to repeat history.
 

Suedesi

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It's a shambles all around from Glazers, to the CEO, to the board, the football operations people.

Case in point - we gave a contract extension to Eric Bailly in the summer. Yet our manager doesn't trust him enough to start when both starting CBs are injured, and opts for an unfit CB that only trained once with the team after three weeks out injured. Maguire produces a disaster and starts again. And again. We ship 13 goals in 3 matches, but Maguire keeps his place. So why the extension to Bailly in the summet? "Protect his valueR. But if he's not playing and showing anything on the pitch, how do you protect said value? It's the same with Mata, Jones, who may be nice blokes but if they don't contribute anything to the club should have been released, not extended. Donnie vdB won't play but won't be sold either.

Something's rotten at our club
 

bosnian_red

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A director of football isn't going to adequately coach the team. Can't hire a shit coach and expect him to get the team to play well. At the end of the day, the manager is the most important part of a club. It can cover up other problems if they're good but if they're bad and everything else is perfect, it'll be noticed instantly. It's the single most important part of a club, having a competent coach.
 

Adnan

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It’s always nice to read your posts, especially when they’re a bit more optimistic than the general doom and gloom on the forum (which I contribute to). Based on the media briefs and leaks coming out now, do you believe that this football structure is equipped to, and will be allowed to do its job? Because the names being bandied about (that I’ve seen) are still Joel Glazer, Woodward, Arnold, and SAF.
Thanks for the kind words mate but it's difficult sometimes to reason with fans who are easily riled up.

I do believe we have the personnel in our football department who have the nous and know how to become the support for a prospective new Head Coach. We have people like Marcel Bout who has been assistant coach to both
LVG and Jupp Heynckes at elite level. He's also been a scout and analyst at the highest level working under the two aforementioned greats in coaching. Bout is far more experienced in coaching, analysing the game and scouting at the elite level in comparison to Edwin Van der Sar who many want at the club to select the new Manager. Van der Sar has never selected a new Head Coach at Ajax from my understanding and if I had to choose between Bout and Van der Sar to help me select the next Coach, Bout's opinion would hold more weight due him being vastly more experienced in comparison to Van der Sar in every department when it comes to understanding the game. Henny de Regt is also far more experienced in comparison to Van der Sar and he's our Head of European scouting.

What I absolutely don't know is if the board will allow the 5 or 6 guys to make the football decisions without interfering. If they interfere, it's not gonna be good for us. But I'm going to presume that they'll allow the guys to make the final call on the new man.
 

ZenMaster Coltrane

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You need a DOF with no former players (especially British) in the setup or on the staff. There needs to be a clear cut with the past and this probably would only happen with the sale of the club. There's way too much nostalgia driven revenue. And MUTV is like state TV with a collection of former players talking absolute dross. You need a Klopp like personality and that's just not on the horizon.
 

devilish

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Nothing has changed, new names brought in by the same twats. No way anything will change here, we will sack Ole in the end but the same ritual will repeat it self.
New names? Murtough has been here since Moyesy. Fletcher, Ole, Carrick, Clegg and Co are part of the furniture
 

Adnan

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So weird that he suddenly went from a shit DoF to a great one when Klopp arrived, I still can’t put my finger on what changed there:confused:
Exactly, Klopp came in and everything else is history. Edwards was a laughing stock among Liverpool fans when Rodgers was their Manager.
 

Godfather

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Yes I agree, won't happen though. We are having this discussion for years now. And what did we do? Gave this Murthough guy a reduced DOF role, who's been part of a failed system since the dark Moyes times.
 
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Exactly, Klopp came in and everything else is history. Edwards was a laughing stock among Liverpool fans when Rodgers was their Manager.
Even if Joel fires Ole and selects the next manager himself, who turns out to be a success, suddenly Murtough and Fletch will be geniuses according to our fans and a perfect DoF team.
 

Waynne

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The fact that SAF is still influencing decisions tells you how incompetent our current decision making personnel are. Instead of getting someone with pedigree in we hand our roles to novices like Fletcher and the other guy.
This.
I've wanted to post before that SAF should be nowhere near influencing decision making at the top but refrained from doing so because of the possible backlash.
Also what are Fletcher's credentials in a technical director role.
It seems to me the club is stuck living in past glories handing out roles to ex-staff and players.
 

Adnan

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John Murtough was brought in by David Moyes but he came to create the structure both from a scouting and data perspective which was almost non existent. And it wasn't until 2018, that the club finally created the positions for a transfer committee which saw Marcel Bout; Jim Lawlor and Mick Court finally challenge Mourinho when it comes to recruitment. And this information I know through listening to a podcast which has guests who work in the scouting and data departments at premier league clubs who also reviewed our scouting network which they described as being one of the most impressive line ups they'd ever reviewed.
 

MvG

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It’s all touch and go at the moment. This transition will tell the tale.
 

Adnan

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Even if Joel fires Ole and selects the next manager himself, who turns out to be a success, suddenly Murtough and Fletch will be geniuses according to our fans and a perfect DoF team.
Tbh with you mate, the guys in the recruitment have done a good job and the club is brimming with talent from the u18s upwards and all we need is a Coach to come in and harvest that talent.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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It's now that the recruitment structure will be tested imo when the hunt for the new Head Coach begins. I don't believe the job is as difficult as some of our fans are making it to be. But this potential Solskjaer sacking was always a possibility and a lot of us fans predicted this was gonna happen. I also predicted people would lose their minds when things got bad with Solskjaer and would blame everyone and their Dog.

We've never been in our current position when it come to structural support and I believe we should be patient and allow the 5 or 6 guys heading the football structure to select the new candidate. It will be the first time that they'll be in a position to do that.
Indeed, Murtough & Fletcher, together with Woodward & Arnold will be the ones working on finding a new manager, Murtough & Fletcher will offer the football knowledge to help the decision making process, let's see if it works.
 

Von Mistelroum

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I think most of us would love for this to happen and to appoint a genuine DoF but this is not happening under this regime. It’ll always be the money men in charge like Woodward.
 

Adnan

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Indeed, Murtough & Fletcher, together with Woodward & Arnold will be the ones working on finding a new manager, Murtough & Fletcher will offer the football knowledge to help the decision making process, let's see if it works.
Agreed. Let's see how it goes.'
 

Rash Decision

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Thanks for the kind words mate but it's difficult sometimes to reason with fans who are easily riled up.

I do believe we have the personnel in our football department who have the nous and know how to become the support for a prospective new Head Coach. We have people like Marcel Bout who has been assistant coach to both
LVG and Jupp Heynckes at elite level. He's also been a scout and analyst at the highest level working under the two aforementioned greats in coaching. Bout is far more experienced in coaching, analysing the game and scouting at the elite level in comparison to Edwin Van der Sar who many want at the club to select the new Manager. Van der Sar has never selected a new Head Coach at Ajax from my understanding and if I had to choose between Bout and Van der Sar to help me select the next Coach, Bout's opinion would hold more weight due him being vastly more experienced in comparison to Van der Sar in every department when it comes to understanding the game. Henny de Regt is also far more experienced in comparison to Van der Sar and he's our Head of European scouting.

What I absolutely don't know is if the board will allow the 5 or 6 guys to make the football decisions without interfering. If they interfere, it's not gonna be good for us. But I'm going to presume that they'll allow the guys to make the final call on the new man.
Thanks for the reply mate. I think you do have fairly extensive knowledge of our club’s setup and I hope you’re right. My skepticism probably comes from the fact that the media pieces coming out now seem to suggest that the club have yet again been caught completely cold by the situation and have no post-Ole contingency plans in place. They apparently approached Conte but can’t agree on whether they want him, and the talk is that they’re still looking at Pochettino which they have been for a long time now. And then word comes out that they’re desperate for Ole to turn things around and will give him a few more games. It sounds suspiciously like either the football people haven’t been doing their due diligence to this point, or the decision makers are not listening to them at all.
 

Dans

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What we need is our club to be run like a football club rather than a company.
 

KiD MoYeS

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A director of football won't make a difference. Joel won't relinquish control, this was the reason for the mess on Monday - nobody knew whether Ole would be sacked or not.
 

Sky1981

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It's a shambles all around from Glazers, to the CEO, to the board, the football operations people.

Case in point - we gave a contract extension to Eric Bailly in the summer. Yet our manager doesn't trust him enough to start when both starting CBs are injured, and opts for an unfit CB that only trained once with the team after three weeks out injured. Maguire produces a disaster and starts again. And again. We ship 13 goals in 3 matches, but Maguire keeps his place. So why the extension to Bailly in the summet? "Protect his valueR. But if he's not playing and showing anything on the pitch, how do you protect said value? It's the same with Mata, Jones, who may be nice blokes but if they don't contribute anything to the club should have been released, not extended. Donnie vdB won't play but won't be sold either.

Something's rotten at our club
I think it goes deeper than just stupidity.

Ole rightly thought about self preservation, regardless of how he rated Baily the money doesn't come out of his pocket, better to just renew first ask later. What if Maguire's injured? He thought? Better to have backup than no, it's not like it's his money anyway. And who cares about 2-3 years down the road when he's not sure if he last the season. This is the problem with expecting everyone to be a long term manager, it's always self preservation kicking in. SAF has enough capital in his tank to last 5 barren years without trophies, most manager does not.

Going into the match, Ole doesn't trust Baily. So he thought that Maguire would do the job, or at least he thought he's the better option. His tactics relies on individual brilliance, and thus he just put the "most likely to produce by his own" attacking 6, and pray for the best.

The man is clueless. SAF rotates because he knows just the right amount of backup used to produce the same result. Ole doesn't have a plan and just throw things and hope it sticks.
 

Sky1981

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A director of football won't make a difference. Joel won't relinquish control, this was the reason for the mess on Monday - nobody knew whether Ole would be sacked or not.
You know I wouldn't blame them to not sacking ole.

You need to make moves, contacts Ten Haag, contact Conte, ask for terms, negotiations etc. Sacking manager without a proper replacement would achieve nothing. And this season is already a write off, you can always sack him now, next week, next month, the result would be pretty much the same. Ten Haag won't quit halfway, and Conteis not guaranteed to want to come here.

So to be fair to them, I'd rather like this rather than making a knee jerk without proper replacement.

You don't need to be a football person to know that sacking your captain halfway without someone being able to steer the ship is stupidity
 

JPRouve

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Some of you are terrible, everything is the end of the world and an excuse to burn everything down. What we are seeing with Ole isn't a structural issue, it's what happens to pretty much all clubs that try to compete at the highest level and used a non elite manager to reach the doorsteps of elite football, these managers struggle to take the next step. Our current issues are about coaching elite football and nothing else.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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A director of football won't make a difference. Joel won't relinquish control, this was the reason for the mess on Monday - nobody knew whether Ole would be sacked or not.
Not defending the Glazers or Joel, but I think it is understandable their hesitance in firing Ole, they aren't popular with the fans, and Ole is, at least as a club legend (footballer), so they would worry how the fans will react if they sack Ole.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Not defending the Glazers or Joel, but I think it is understandable their hesitance in firing Ole, they aren't popular with the fans, and Ole is, at least as a club legend (footballer), so they would worry how the fans will react if they sack Ole.
I kind of understand why he wasn't sacked either. The club have no contingency planning. Regardless of this final say appears to be with Joel Glazer so these senior football figures within the club are effectively consultants and not decision makers.
 

Real Name

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Some of you are terrible, everything is the end of the world and an excuse to burn everything down. What we are seeing with Ole isn't a structural issue, it's what happens to pretty much all clubs that try to compete at the highest level and used a non elite manager to reach the doorsteps of elite football, these managers struggle to take the next step. Our current issues are about coaching elite football and nothing else.
Do you think that getting an elite manager will start to fix things on its own. Similar to Klopp coming to Liverpool?
 

OmarUnited4ever

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I kind of understand why he wasn't sacked either. The club have no contingency planning. Regardless of this final say appears to be with Joel Glazer so these senior football figures within the club are effectively consultants and not decision makers.
Well, Ole & his 3 assistants (Phelan, Carrick & McKenna) are a legacy from the time before the football structure was setup, so Ole as the Head Coach is on the same level as John Murtough the Football Director, also, Ole himself advocated for the new football structure, so any decision to sack Ole, will only come from above the current structure (namely Ed Woodward/Richard Arnold & Joel Glazer), but if a new head coach is appointed, then the new head coach will be reporting under John Murtough, who will be given the reigns in terms of football related decisions, the first would be selecting the new head coach. (of course this depends on if the Glazers do not interfere with footballing decisions).
 

JPRouve

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Do you think that getting an elite manager will start to fix things on its own. Similar to Klopp coming to Liverpool?
An elite manager is the only actual difference maker at this level, it's not as if we have bad players and no prospects. And it wouldn't be on its own but with and by an elite manager and his staff. This club only needs two things to fully exploit the good work that has been done since 2018, a better coaching staff and a slightly more balanced midfield and attack personnel.
 

Real Name

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An elite manager is the only actual difference maker at this level, it's not as if we have bad players and no prospects. And it wouldn't be on its own but with and by an elite manager and his staff. This club only needs two things to fully exploit the good work that has been done since 2018, a better coaching staff and a slightly more balanced midfield and attack personnel.
I worded it wrongly, by its own I meant with elite manager coming in, identifying players he needs for his system, he incorporates them, release the players he doesnt need and it goes from that.