We need a bona fide DoF. 2021 version.

[Robbie Boy]

But the comparison tells you that 5 days is nothing, it doesn't support your point. And don't get me wrong I get your frustration, I'm simply pointing to the fact that it's not as easy and quick as people think, even in the context where Conteis actually a target, you need to find a contractual agreement with him and his staff which can take more than 5 days and it is likely that none of the current staff can takeover as a caretaker because they will be sacked if Conte was the future manager.
So my point is that there are obvious reasons why a club may not sack a manager in 5 days or may want to give itself a few weeks and it's fairly rare for managers to go from safe to sacked in a matter of days unless something terrible happened that involves HR.

I just think there have been massive red flags since well before the end of last season. I find it negligible that the club chose to give him a new contract in the summer, and seemingly has no clue what to do now, despite massive red flags for some time.

I was open to him getting the season before the Leicester game, but it's obviously gone way past that point, for me anyway. If we sack him in the next few weeks, then great. My fear is some 'semi decent' results will give him a reprieve, despite the overwhelming evidence that he's not good enough. My frustrations are borne out of the circus that his continued appointment is creating, and it's nothing against him personally.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

And you think that the chairman of that board isn't responsible for that? What do you think Gill's job was?

Because it was not a problem then. The most successful club in the history doing things its own way. Remember the united way? That was the success formula. After Gill, Glazers and Ed wanna continue that success formula too.

This could really have worked if Ed was competent and somehow manage to convince Klopp joining us instead giving him the impression that we are Disneyland.

 

[Waynne]

Michael Edwards contract at Liverpool is up this summer. At 41 his record is pretty impressive. Pay whatever it takes.

Won't happen.
With United the easiest choice is often the hardest.

 

[JPRouve]

I just think there have been massive red flags since well before the end of last season. I find it negligible that the club chose to give him a new contract in the summer, and seemingly has no clue what to do now, despite massive red flags for some time.

I was open to him getting the season before the Leicester game, but it's obviously gone way past that point, for me anyway. If we sack him in the next few weeks, then great. My fear is some 'semi decent' results will give him a reprieve, despite the overwhelming evidence that he's not good enough. My frustrations are borne out of the circus that he's continued appointment is creating, and it's nothing against him personally.

On that we agree, I don't really understand the contract extension, I thought that he did a good job and was at the end of his journey as a manager. But when you consider the fact that they seemingly saw him as a long term option, then you can't be surprised by the fact that he hasn't been quickly sacked.

Fundamentally I don't think that we are on different sides, I simply don't take into account my own bias and try to look at it from the point of view of someone that extended him. If you use your own bias than you leave no place for rationality because I assume that Ole would be on the last year of his contract which means that the financial question wouldn't exist and you would be in the process of finding a new manager for June 2022, in that case you are in a position where you can act quickly even though a good caretaker isn't necessarily easy to find, maybe someone like Blanc could do it.

 

[Robbie Boy]

On that we agree, I don't really understand the contract extension, I thought that he did a good job and was at the end of his journey as a manager. But when you consider the fact that they seemingly saw him as a long term option, then you can't be surprised by the fact that he hasn't been quickly sacked.

Fundamentally I don't think that we are on different sides, I simply don't take into account my own bias and try to look at it from the point of view of someone that extended him. If you use your own bias than you leave no place for rationality because I assume that Ole would be on the last year of his contract which means that the financial question wouldn't exist and you would be in the process of finding a new manager for June 2022, in that case you are in a position where you can act quickly even though a good caretaker isn't necessarily easy to find, maybe someone like Blanc could do it.

Oh I agree, I can certainly see it from a business perspective, which unfortunately is what our club is all about. It's also understandable that there is reluctance to admit defeat on a 4th manager in succession. I know those are massive factors, but as a fan, I only look through the prism of how we are performing etc. Giving him a contract was just ludicrous, and I have no idea how anyone truly believed he would bring us any tangible success. It's beggers belief, it really is.

I am just really frustrated at the absolute circus around the club right now. And this '3 games to save his job' rhetoric is absolute insanity.

 

[JPRouve]

Because it was not a problem then. The most successful club in the history doing things its own way. Remember the united way? That was the success formula. After Gill, Glazers and Ed wanna continue that success formula too.

This could really have worked if Ed was competent and somehow manage to convince Klopp joining us instead giving him the impression that we are Disneyland.

But that's the job of a CEO and COO, they need to anticipate problems and create structures and contingency plans that erase predictable problems. That's a crucial part of the job and no it was never going to work on the short term.

Also the Klopp thing needs to stop, the quote was about Old Trafford being the Theater of dreams and Woodward allegedly likened it to a place like Disneyland meaning that it was a place for entertainment that people dream to experience which is a true goal dating from Sir Matt Busby days, the analogy is cheesy but it's accurate and that's a typical cheesy selling point too, it's also worth mentioning that Klopp rejected everyone that summer Real Madrid and I believe Chelsea being examples, he only left Dortmund a year later. Truth be told I love Klopp but on that particular point he clearly played to the Liverpool crowd, there was nothing wrong with that quote and there is no way that he rejected United for that, that would be one of the dumbest argument ever, particularly when we then catch him singing the very sexy YAWN.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

But that's the job of a CEO and COO, they need to anticipate problems and create structures and contingency plans that erase predictable problems. That's a crucial part of the job and no it was never going to work on the short term.

I will stop here because no point going around in hindsight. Clearly, your view was not what Gill, SAF, Ed, Glazers agree with, then.

 

[JPRouve]

I will stop here because no point going around in hindsight. Clearly, your view was not what Gill, SAF, Ed, Glazers agree with, then.

Why do you call it hindsight? It feels like you are questioning my integrity when I tell you that it's not hindsight.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Why do you call it hindsight? It feels like you are questioning my integrity when I tell you that it's not hindsight.

Nope, not questioning your integrity at all. I meant it in different way. Apologies if it seems otherwise.

 

[Adnan]

.

But that's the job of a CEO and COO, they need to anticipate problems and create structures and contingency plans that erase predictable problems. That's a crucial part of the job and no it was never going to work on the short term.

Also the Klopp thing needs to stop, the quote was about Old Trafford being the Theater of dreams and Woodward allegedly likened it to a place like Disneyland meaning that it was a place for entertainment that people dream to experience which is a true goal dating from Sir Matt Busby days, the analogy is cheesy but it's accurate and that's a typical cheesy selling point too, it's also worth mentioning that Klopp rejected everyone that summer Real Madrid and I believe Chelsea being examples, he only left Dortmund a year later. Truth be told I love Klopp but on that particular point he clearly played to the Liverpool crowd, there was nothing wrong with that quote and there is no way that he rejected United for that, that would be one of the dumbest argument ever, particularly when we then catch him singing the very sexy YAWN.

Agreed, and to add to your post, Fulham and Coventry had modernised their clubs respectively in 2004 and 2008 by hiring a chap called John Murtough, who oversaw the development of a data science department and the expansion of the scouting network. Both Fulham and Coventry had owners and chairmen who had the foresight, unlike our owners and David Gill who were utterly incompetent.

 

[The Impossible Team]

Luis Campos is still jobless. Just pointing the obvious.

Great shout, apparently Newcastle are looking to appoint him as their DoF.

Ralf Rangnick is my favourite as he could be interim manager until the end of the season before moving upstairs. Only problem is how we would we accommodate him with Murtough n Fletch already there.
Oh silly me I forgot the other problem. He can't even be a caretaker manager, as we already have one of them as well

 

[André Dominguez]

Great shout, apparently Newcastle are looking to appoint him as their DoF.

Ralf Rangnick is my favourite as he could be interim manager until the end of the season before moving upstairs. Only problem is how we would we accommodate him with Murtough n Fletch already there.
Oh silly me I forgot the other problem. He can't even be a caretaker manager, as we already have one of them as well

We are a club who's being managed as a major corp, the CEO major goal is to guarantee that the season balance is a success finantially. And it usually is, even when we failed Champions League qualification, our club has an enormous fanbase arround the world, mainly on asian market.

If we are going to appoint a new DoF, usually that DoF will demand freedom to assemble his own department and create a solid structure that can still be used in long term, even after he leaves the club, but as you pointed, I really can't see a high market value DoF accepting not to have total control on all club's players and staff ins and outs, which is something our board clearly wants.

 

[Judas]

I don't get this thread now, am I missing something, or are people just wanting to pretend that Murtough fella doesn't exist?

 

[JPRouve]

I don't get this thread now, am I missing something, or are people just wanting to pretend that Murtough fella doesn't exist?

Yes. They will also pretend that the likes of Zorc, Overmars or Edwards were veterans when they got the job.

 

[Bastian]

I don't get this thread now, am I missing something, or are people just wanting to pretend that Murtough fella doesn't exist?

It's inspired by the assumption that he's not been given authority. If he was a bona fide DoF he would be responsible for the next managerial hire in line with the long-term vision of the club. I don't dispute his credentials, I dispute the club's willingness to professionalise over paying it lip service and doing a few PR exercises. It will be telling whether the new structure is a facade or an actual structure during the next managerial change.

 

[croadyman]

Rangnick is the ideal solution but let's face it no way will our board appoint him when we have already have murtough

 

[gajender]

Rangnick is the ideal solution but let's face it no way will our board appoint him when we have already have murtough

No he isn't it's not even close his claim to fame has been building clubs from lower leagues to decent level where his job profile requirement were completely different from what he would be expected to achieve here .
What's the point of hiring somebody who is on the wrong side of 60s for role which is clearly of long term nature not to mention when the said person has never been in a job with similar expectations .
Instead of being irrational and jumping on the bandwagon just think about the situation we already have new team in place for a role which requires long term planning just give them a chance to atleast make their mark rather than rip everything .

 

[JPRouve]

No he isn't it's not even close his claim to fame has been building clubs from lower leagues to decent level where his job profile requirement were completely different from what he would be expected to achieve here .
What's the point of hiring somebody who is on the wrong side of 60s for role which is clearly of long term nature not to mention when the said person has never been in a job with similar expectations .
Instead of being irrational and jumping on the bandwagon just think about the situation we already have new team in place for a role which requires long term planning just give them a chance to atleast make their mark rather than rip everything .

Pretty much, Rangnick could be ideal if we currently didn't have a team ready to play at a high level or at least close to to it, he would have been perfect instead of LVG. It's one of the things that Monchi mentioned in an interview a while ago, two very good DOFs aren't equal, if you take someone like Luis Campos, his M.O is to sign a lot of young unproven players that will be given significant playing time and hopefully can develop into quality players after 2 or 3 years, he is perfect for midtable clubs that expect to have a relatively high variance of results from one season to the other, it also applies to smaller clubs like Sevilla, Monaco, Lille or Leipzig who expect to play European football, have a bit more money than your average midtable club but can live with the idea of underperforming for a season or two.

That's why big clubs don't go for these guys. The likes of Rangnick, Campos, Monchi and similar DOFs have been available in recent years but established big clubs stay away from them, not because they are bad but because they don't provide what is needed, they have an eye for prospects whether we are talking about staff members or players, they are not in the business of established players.

 

[UnitedSofa]

It's inspired by the assumption that he's not been given authority. If he was a bona fide DoF he would be responsible for the next managerial hire in line with the long-term vision of the club. I don't dispute his credentials, I dispute the club's willingness to professionalise over paying it lip service and doing a few PR exercises. It will be telling whether the new structure is a facade or an actual structure during the next managerial change.

Who’s to say he’s not, if the time comes, he will be in charge of doing so I suspect.
Are you questioning Murtough’s professionalism?

 

[Bestietom]

We are wasting our time as long as Woodward and the Glazers are making all decisions. They will always be happy with top 4 place, maybe even top 6. That's the future of this club as long as they are here.
It will always be promises promises and pulling the wool over the fans eyes. They are leeches and don't care about the team or fans.

 

[lifted]

I don't get this thread now, am I missing something, or are people just wanting to pretend that Murtough fella doesn't exist?

People banging the same old drum with their eyes closed.

I don't think Murtough has done much wrong, so far. It's quite clear that Joel Glazer/Ed Woodward hold the power of sacking the manager and replacing Murtough will do nothing to change this.

We'll see what Murtough's plan is for the future if/when Ole leaves the club.

 

[JPRouve]

People banging the same old drum with their eyes closed.

I don't think Murtough has done much wrong, so far. It's quite clear that Joel Glazer/Ed Woodward hold the power of sacking the manager and replacing Murtough will do nothing to change this.

We'll see what Murtough's plan is for the future if/when Ole leaves the club.

Which is true in 100% of Football clubs. A DOF isn't the highest member in the hierarchy, hiring someone as expensive as a head coach is always ultimately in the hands of the CEO and owners.