We Need Two Full Backs

Trigestis said:
Can you point to an example where he consistently creates chaos for defenders? Most of the time he stops attacks by passing back or refusing to take players on. That should be a winger's forte. If he keeps scoring goals, great, but the point is that he likely won't and therefore LW should not be ignored in the summer. Can you really see him scoring 13-16 goals in the league as a starting LW? Why is Ornstein reporting that we're looking to sign a left winger if we have Dorgu who is supposedly "it"?

His defensive qualities were shown as a left wingback under Amorim where he had to do both jobs in defense and offense. You say nothing is screaming top LB, but what exactly is screaming top LW? Compare Dorgu to Doku, Neto, Gakpo, Bowen, Salah or Saka and I'm sure you will see clear attacking differences on the statistics there as well. You're using a one game sample to conclude that he is not a good LB.
And again, I'm not sure why you're saying he's not good defensively as a LB. He is ranked #14 for duels won in the Premier League among all players. He keeps up with players and blocks their crosses and tackles well, and is really solid aerially. He could potentially contribute greatly as a marauding LB with a proper LW ahead of him.
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We're just at logger heads here, becase I think against, Villa Newcastle, Burnley, City and Arsenal he was at his best for us, doing exactly that. You're implying he's only scored screamers, which is just not true. Why does he need to score 13-16 goals? Also, by that logic we should buy a RW too, I can't seem Amad scoring that many. It's about what you bring the to team - I don't disagree we need more options at LW with pace, but the idea we have to go and spunk a load of money on 'proper winger' like a 100m Diomande, seems like wasteful spending.

I'm sure not sure that's true, no one was saying he's great at defending but shit in attack, they were just saying he's shit in attack but works hard. The comparisons just tell me this is more an aesthetic choice that an actual effectiveness choice.

Doku - 1 goal and 4 assists
Neto - 5 goals and 3 assists
Gakpo - 5 goals and 3 assists
Bowen - 8 goals and 3 assists
Salah - I'm not exactly going to compare Dorgu to someone who's one of the most productive players ever to play in the prem.
Saka - 5 goals - 3 assists

Dorgu - 3 goals and 3 assists. 3 of those goals have come in the 4 games have come where he's played as a winger. The rest he's been playing wingback.

If you think they're good wingers, Dorgu has almost match their tallies for the season in 4 games. I'm not using one game, I'm using the only game in recent times where he played LB and also the Arsenal game as an action I would expect a LB to be able to deal with much better than he did.

Because playing in a back 4 is not just about duels and his duels aren't representative of the work he will have to do as a LB. His poisitioning and awareness aren't there for a FB, because he doesn't have to think about that in his wingback or winger role. He's not also a progressive passer, which he would need to be as a LB, unless you you expect him to just dribble past everyone from deep. He could, but what he actually has shown is he can contribute greatly as a winger.
 
Lash said:
We're just at logger heads here, becase I think against, Villa Newcastle, Burnley, City and Arsenal he was at his best for us, doing exactly that. You're implying he's only scored screamers, which is just not true. Why does he need to score 13-16 goals? Also, by that logic we should buy a RW too, I can't seem Amad scoring that many. It's about what you bring the to team - I don't disagree we need more options at LW with pace, but the idea we have to go and spunk a load of money on 'proper winger' like a 100m Diomande, seems like wasteful spending.

I'm sure not sure that's true, no one was saying he's great at defending but shit in attack, they were just saying he's shit in attack but works hard. The comparisons just tell me this is more an aesthetic choice that an actual effectiveness choice.

Doku - 1 goal and 4 assists
Neto - 5 goals and 3 assists
Gakpo - 5 goals and 3 assists
Bowen - 8 goals and 3 assists
Salah - I'm not exactly going to compare Dorgu to someone who's one of the most productive players ever to play in the prem.
Saka - 5 goals - 3 assists

Dorgu - 3 goals and 3 assists. 3 of those goals have come in the 4 games have come where he's played as a winger. The rest he's been playing wingback.

If you think they're good wingers, Dorgu has almost match their tallies for the season in 4 games. I'm not using one game, I'm using the only game in recent times where he played LB and also the Arsenal game as an action I would expect a LB to be able to deal with much better than he did.

Because playing in a back 4 is not just about duels and his duels aren't representative of the work he will have to do as a LB. His poisitioning and awareness aren't there for a FB, because he doesn't have to think about that in his wingback or winger role. He's not also a progressive passer, which he would need to be as a LB, unless you you expect him to just dribble past everyone from deep. He could, but what he actually has shown is he can contribute greatly as a winger.
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I said he scored two screamers. He has scored 3 goals for us in the league, so two thirds of his goals are screamers. They don't come from typical wing play. One came from a corner and had nothing to do with where he played on the pitch and the one against City came from when he made a run to the center when the defender was sleeping, a typical striker's goal. He is a left footed player. Can you point to other left footed left wingers that are doing well in Premier League?

We don't need to do that because we have Mbeumo who scored 20 goals last season and has scored 9 so far. And even if we don't count Amad's goals, you're ignoring all his qualities like dribbling, keeping the ball in tight space, his link up ability and great passing. Dorgu lacks all of this to a high level.

I'm not sure what you're implying with that, but are you suggesting Dorgu is an equally good winger as those players? And what about their other seasons? Bowen scored 13 goals and had 8 assists last season, 16 goals and 6 assists the season before that. Saka has 92 goals + assists in his last 5 Premier League seasons.

If you believe Dorgu is going to be a class winger, then all good. The majority of United fans don't which is why most of us want a new LW this summer. Trusting Dorgu to be a significant impact as one third of our attack going into next season is a recipe for disaster, which is why we'll be looking to sign a new one.
 
Lash said:
We're just at logger heads here, becase I think against, Villa Newcastle, Burnley, City and Arsenal he was at his best for us, doing exactly that. You're implying he's only scored screamers, which is just not true. Why does he need to score 13-16 goals? Also, by that logic we should buy a RW too, I can't seem Amad scoring that many. It's about what you bring the to team - I don't disagree we need more options at LW with pace, but the idea we have to go and spunk a load of money on 'proper winger' like a 100m Diomande, seems like wasteful spending.

I'm sure not sure that's true, no one was saying he's great at defending but shit in attack, they were just saying he's shit in attack but works hard. The comparisons just tell me this is more an aesthetic choice that an actual effectiveness choice.

Doku - 1 goal and 4 assists
Neto - 5 goals and 3 assists
Gakpo - 5 goals and 3 assists
Bowen - 8 goals and 3 assists
Salah - I'm not exactly going to compare Dorgu to someone who's one of the most productive players ever to play in the prem.
Saka - 5 goals - 3 assists

Dorgu - 3 goals and 3 assists. 3 of those goals have come in the 4 games have come where he's played as a winger. The rest he's been playing wingback.

If you think they're good wingers, Dorgu has almost match their tallies for the season in 4 games. I'm not using one game, I'm using the only game in recent times where he played LB and also the Arsenal game as an action I would expect a LB to be able to deal with much better than he did.

Because playing in a back 4 is not just about duels and his duels aren't representative of the work he will have to do as a LB. His poisitioning and awareness aren't there for a FB, because he doesn't have to think about that in his wingback or winger role. He's not also a progressive passer, which he would need to be as a LB, unless you you expect him to just dribble past everyone from deep. He could, but what he actually has shown is he can contribute greatly as a winger.
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Not even their own fans do. Saka excluded of course but most Arsenal fans would agree he’s not been good enough this year.
 
Trigestis said:
I said he scored two screamers. He has scored 3 goals for us in the league, so two thirds of his goals are screamers. They don't come from typical wing play. One came from a corner and had nothing to do with where he played on the pitch and the one against City came from when he made a run to the center when the defender was sleeping, a typical striker's goal. He is a left footed player. Can you point to other left footed left wingers that are doing well in Premier League?

We don't need to do that because we have Mbeumo who scored 20 goals last season and has scored 9 so far. And even if we don't count Amad's goals, you're ignoring all his qualities like dribbling, keeping the ball in tight space, his link up ability and great passing. Dorgu lacks all of this to a high level.

I'm not sure what you're implying with that, but are you suggesting Dorgu is an equally good winger as those players? And what about their other seasons? Bowen scored 13 goals and had 8 assists last season, 16 goals and 6 assists the season before that. Saka has 92 goals + assists in his last 5 Premier League seasons.

If you believe Dorgu is going to be a class winger, then all good. The majority of United fans don't which is why most of us want a new LW this summer. Trusting Dorgu to be a significant impact as one third of our attack going into next season is a recipe for disaster, which is why we'll be looking to sign a new one.
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I don't know why I have to compare him to other players when he's performing. I can just use his performances as references. Also the City goal is a typical winger goal that is worth their salt.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying Dorgu is an effective attacking outlet as a winger. It's not like he's doing it against rubbish teams, he's doing it against the top teams in the league. Those are all great qualities to have, but Dorgu is still just as effective as him this season, despite not having those.

We did the bold in our toughest games of the season and he did it. We'll do it again probably, that doesn't mean we don't buy a LW entirely, but it also don't mean moving him LB either.
 
IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos said:
I’m not saying your wrong, but if we’re making the call that Dorgu’s future is as a full back, then we’ll need to sign a left sided forward player which will probably be more expensive than a right back.

Personally, as I and others have said, I see Dorgu’s future as a Park type. The kind of squad player that’s needed when you want extra solidity in big away games.
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So we limit him to what 6 games a year instead of playing him in a position where he can play 50-60?
 
roseguy64 said:
So we limit him to what 6 games a year instead of playing him in a position where he can play 50-60?
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If we’re in the CL, we have a lot more than 6 difficult away games.

Also ignoring the point that if we’re playing him exclusively at full back, we then need to sign another wide player.

Truth is, we don’t really know, because he’s played the majority of his games at wing back, a role that no longer exists.
 
After watching the game yesterday, I am definitely in the camp that we need some competition for these spots. Dalot is rather dreadful and although I am a fan of Shaw, some options need to be brought in or promoted.
 
We really need width. If we’re sticking with our inside attackers, that needs to be from the full backs. IMO.
 
Phil said:
We really need width. If we’re sticking with our inside attackers, that needs to be from the full backs. IMO.
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Yup this.

I think Dalot / Mazraoui are going to form the 3 at the back (2 CBs + Dalot / Maz). They're perfect for that job and I wouldn't mess around with the balance at RB.

Our LB needs to be the attacking one. Shaw doesn't have the legs and Dorgu is injured so we're jumping through all sorts of hoops to accommodate for that and provide width on the left (including asking Dalot to play like an attacking fullback on the right, Cunha to play touchline winger, Bruno drifting out to LW etc. etc.)

I'd hold opinions until Dorgu is back. I do think we need an attacking LB as a rotation option with Dorgu. I don't think we need a RB.
 
Watching Arsenal vs Chelsea, you can see what a good fullback can contribute to attacking phase. Especially Reece James and Timber.

I hope we will address this issue on the next window.
 
It would be nice to have two great full backs. Like Cafu and Robero Carlos. Did they break the mold after making these 2?. It seems like its a position that doesnt have many world class players. However I'd take a Evra. I really dont know who we should get, but it sure would be nice to have a world class player in 1 of the 2 positions.
 
Kelly15 said:
It would be nice to have two great full backs. Like Cafu and Robero Carlos. Did they break the mold after making these 2?. It seems like its a position that doesnt have many world class players. However I'd take a Evra. I really dont know who we should get, but it sure would be nice to have a world class player in 1 of the 2 positions.
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Hell I’ll take Ashley young and Valencia at full back now.
 
RU Devil said:
After watching the game yesterday, I am definitely in the camp that we need some competition for these spots. Dalot is rather dreadful and although I am a fan of Shaw, some options need to be brought in or promoted.
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I think Amass will be in the squad next season, he's already shown that he can take the physicality of the Championship, and he had some bright spots in his debut season at the LB position. But the question remains what is Dorgu? I'd like to think he could be a LB but I think he'd be good in that position against bad teams where we are in need of more attackers. Against better teams or good wingers I think he'll struggle. And he's be a better option as a backup LW that can be defensive when you need to be. He really looks like he could become someone like Elanga
 
We see to have a bizarre policy where we focus on signing players for just one specific section of the team - last summer it was attackers, this summer seems all about midfielders and next summer will no doubt be full backs.

I would like to think we could maybe mix it up and keep the team evolving rather than having major resets in terms of personnel each summer window.
 
Kelly15 said:
It would be nice to have two great full backs. Like Cafu and Robero Carlos. Did they break the mold after making these 2?. It seems like it’s a position that doesnt have many world class players. However I'd take a Evra. I really dont know who we should get, but it sure would be nice to have a world class player in 1 of the 2 positions.
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Cafu was truly magnificent, but I’d have Evra over Carlos any day of the week. Massively overrated player. Don’t get me started on how much better Irwin was than him…
 
Reds Under The Bed said:
We see to have a bizarre policy where we focus on signing players for just one specific section of the team - last summer it was attackers, this summer seems all about midfielders and next summer will no doubt be full backs.

I would like to think we could maybe mix it up and keep the team evolving rather than having major resets in terms of personnel each summer window.
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I don’t think it’s bizarre. Last summer it was clear we needed some new attackers, a new striker, a new goal keeper, and new midfielders, but it was impossible for us to address all those areas in one window. We did mix it up a bit by managing to address GK, 9, and two attackers. And I think that partly came down to who was becoming available - it was clear that players like Cunha and Mbeumo were going to move somewhere, and that lots of strikers were on the move. We had also lost Garnacho, Rashford, Hojlund, Antony and Sancho, so it was entirely unsurprising that attack was the focus. This summer it seems like some of our CM targets will be on the move, and we’ll be losing at least one of our current CMs, and so there will rightly be a heavier focus there this summer, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if we also bought a LB or LW, or both.
 
Maybe it's just me but fullback just doesnt seem like a priority for me this upcoming window. LB has Leon and Amass as prospects to back up Shaw and Dorgu, and Maz can play there if needed too. RB has Maz and Dalot, even Amad to an extent though he's better further forward. If we can pick up a Heaven/Lammens type signing I wouldnt be against it.

Refitting the engine room (midfield) needs all the spare budget with Casemiro going, Ugarte looking unreliable and our younger options still finding their game. two big signings there, and a backup striker and a far bigger priority. This season we've seen improvements in attack and goal. Heaven, Dorgo and Yoro look like great prospects. Midfield needs the focus now
 
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I'm still not sure how much of a priority full-backs should be. However:

The stand-out RB prospect appears to be Marco Palestra (on loan at Cagliari from Atalanta).

The best prospects at LB are probably Nathaniel Brown (Stuttgart) and Lewis Hall (Newcastle) (plus also maybe Patrick Dorgu of United...).

BehemothTerror said:
LB has Leon and Amass as prospects to back up Shaw and Dorgu, and Maz can play there if needed too.
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I don't see Leon making it here tbh. He looks so raw and sloppy right now. I'm pretty disappointed by him tbh.

I'm also not convinced Amass will make it at United either. Maybe in a couple of years he wouldn't be the worst back-up, but he's not there yet and will need another loan next season. I think his top level is probably upper Championship/lower PL (eg Cresswell, Leif Davis etc.). He has good technique, but not sure he'll have the pace to be the first-choice LB in a back four at a club with United's ambitions.
 
goldenboy said:
I'm still not sure how much of a priority full-backs should be. However:

The stand-out RB prospect appears to be Marco Palestra (on loan at Cagliari from Atalanta).

The best prospects at LB are probably Nathaniel Brown (Stuttgart) and Lewis Hall (Newcastle) (plus also maybe Patrick Dorgu of United...).



I don't see Leon making it here tbh. He looks so raw and sloppy right now. I'm pretty disappointed by him tbh.

I'm also not convinced Amass will make it at United either. Maybe in a couple of years he wouldn't be the worst back-up, but he's not there yet and will need another loan next season. I think his top level is probably upper Championship/lower PL (eg Cresswell, Leif Davis etc.). He has good technique, but not sure he'll have the pace to be the first-choice LB in a back four at a club with United's ambitions.
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If you're going to include Lewis Hall you've missed some other pretty obvious ones from the prem:

Kayode - RB at Brentford
Jimenez - RB at Bournemouth
Diouf - LB at West Ham

If West Ham go down then Diouf is an obvious opportunistic pick up, unless we are super confident in either Amass or Leon to make it (which I wouldn't say we are at present).

Personally I'd like us to part ways with Dalot and go for one of Kayode or Jimenez but I struggle to see us doing that this summer.
 
I just don’t want to see us going into next season with our 4 current full backs. Which side we address first depends on who is available, but I’d like us to bring someone in. A lot depends on where they see Dorgu playing.
 
Kalulu has been linked on and off this season and there were reports we want a versatile player in defence.

Seems pacy and a good crosser from deep but isnt a conventional fullback.

However I do like our history of French defenders.
 
We definitely need a upgrade either side.

Starting Rb and starting Lb to compete with Shaw and Dalot/Mazaroui.
 
We clearly need a LB and a RB, Dalot isn’t very good, Mazraoui picks up injuries too often and Shaw has to play within himself now.

If we qualify for the Champions League, those three plus two new signings and Dorgu as an option as well is probably what we will need.
 
None of our fullbacks is good attacker. Playing with inverted wingers on both sides, we're just crippling our play by not providing any width.

Even Dorgu, a mere decent young player, had such a big impact on our play, just because he could provide width even on only left side. Just imagine if we have capable players providing width on both sides.
 
Kayode from Brentford in the summer at least for me. We can maybe give Dorgu another season at left-back. Dalot and Shaw need to leave.
 
We desperately need two attacking fullbacks on each side, presumably wingbacks. Our wingers cannot constantly create on their own, they need a link to stretch the play and provide width, our wing play is simply too predictable and one-dimensional. The right side will need the most attention because Dorgu will pretty much cement that position. Not much candidates on the right side.
 
Suedesi said:
I quite like Kadioglou from Brighton, but they’re a notoriously hard team to do business with
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I don't think they're hard to do business with, they're a well run club who stick to their valuations which are normally pretty fair.
 
Both fullback positions need to be strengthened, we have pretty ordinary options there and injury issues as well. I can only see us signing one fullback in the summer though.

Hall, Brown and Lewis-Skelly would all be very expensive options at LB. Kayode, Palestra and Read would all be good and cheaper options at RB.
 
TRUE NUMBER 9 said:
Dorgu and Amad are better at the other end of the pitch. Time to forget the idea of them being wingbacks.

Dalot and Shaw could well be upgraded although neither is poor, they just aren't great.

Agree completely with Silent Witness in that in recent times, the fullback position does seem to be quite thin as far as really good ones. This is likely another byproduct of the fascination with wingbacks. Yet who is happy with wingbacks? Most football fans moan constantly about their team's wingbacks as either "he is OK going forward but can't defend" or, "he is a decent defender but offers nothing going forward" :lol:

Personally, I much prefer wide attacking midfielders / wingers / inside forwards combined with fullbacks. Looks like Carrick does too...and long may it continue :+1:
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Maybe the inside attackers might explain why we are looking at Lewis-Skelly, particularly when you see how he played in that England U21 game on Tuesday
 
Reds Under The Bed said:
We see to have a bizarre policy where we focus on signing players for just one specific section of the team - last summer it was attackers, this summer seems all about midfielders and next summer will no doubt be full backs.

I would like to think we could maybe mix it up and keep the team evolving rather than having major resets in terms of personnel each summer window.
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Last summer we strengthened our attack and goalkeeper. So two sections of the team. Maybe this summer we will do both midfield and fullback.
 
Maybe we can try for Wesley from Roma. Great attributes and can play right or left back.
 
I think the Lewis Hall rumours have legs, just price dependent.

With UEFA not sanctioning the sale of the stadium they may be willing to sell, doesn't mean he will be cheap but maybe easier to get than previously thought.
 
Think we need to buy at least one full back depending on where we play Dorgu going forward.
 
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