We need width!!

[Walters_19_MuFc]

When we find ourselves against teams that stay nice and compact, with eleven men behind the ball, we really struggle to break teams down. Happened against Southampton a couple of weeks ago, and Cambridge yesterday, and team's are going to start working us out.

Now, apart from moving the ball at a quicker tempo, which I feel we need to a lot better, I personally think we need more width, in order to beat compact teams, by stretching them as much as possible. I don't think it was a coincidence we looked better when Januzaj was moved into a wider area yesterday, where he was able to get some crosses in and create a couple of chances.

Between now and the end of the season, I think Van Gaal should probably think about going back to the 4141 we played for three games, against Chelsea, Palace and City. We didn't create an awful lot of chances in that system (mainly down to centre midfielders being too deep), but I guess certain things could be tweaked in order to do so.

Now, I know we've only got two wingers in Januzaj and Di Maria that can perform at a high level, although the latter performs better in centre midfield, but I feel, if we can get the centre midfield balance right, we could do a good job with this formation. I even think Young and Valencia could do a decent job on the wing for us. I mean, they're not that bad.

It doesn't even have to be a 4141. I just miss seeing a formation with wingers getting at players and delivering crosses or cutting in and having a pop.

Thoughts?

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I don't think we have any problem getting Valencia/Rafael and Young/Shaw/Blind in good positions for a cross from the wide areas in the 3-5-2. Just watch our goals, some of them have come from good wing play. The problem is that their numbers are very low for a top club. For example Valencia's three assists, vs Sunderland (Mata's goal), Liverpool (Rooney) and QPR (Fellaini), led to three beautiful goals. But can Valencia provide 10-12 assists by the end of the season? I doubt it. Young has none and Januzaj's delivery needs a lot of work.

We didn't have any trouble to get players in good positions for an early cross into the box last season either... Imo the problem is the quality of those crosses, there's no pace in our crosses and our players need to many touches to make up their minds and they barely raise their heads to spot the runs from the forwards. We all know that if the ball coming in the box isn't synchronized with the attacker's run and if it's not an early ball and the defense is organized there's no way for the forward to get to the ball first.

Unfortunately, we don't have forwards or midfielders who are pacey on the ball and can drift wide to dribble defenders either, like Liverpool's triplet you mentioned in another thread, so we must improve our crossing and of course, as you say in the OP, find a way to improve our build up play and add some penetration through the middle. I wish we could play Rooney, Mata, RvP, Januzaj and AdM on the wings but there's no way we can get around 50 goals and 50 assists from any of these three, especially from wide positions.

EDIT: There's a lot of logic in what you are suggesting, no one can argue with that but football is still a game in which the team that creates the best 1v1 situations on the ball wins the match. The Sturridge-Sterling-Suarez triplet worked for Rodgers because their ability to create chances for themselves could balance Liverpool's lack of quality elsewhere.

With the exception of AdM (and he's never been a prolific goal scorer) we don't have this kind of players up front. Mata, Rooney, Januzaj, Herrera, RvP... all of them need players around them and off the ball movement to flourish.

Put them on the wings and you make it easier for the opposition to close them down because you limit the space in which they operate. Plus the opposition will always risk a double-team on them and allow the cross from our FBs, which is rather easy to defend.

 

[SambaBoy]

It's no good just playing wingers IMO, we need to get them into the right areas. If you compare where Valencia picks up the ball now compared to where he mostly received it in the Fergie era then it's completely different. If he was to hit the byline nowadays, he has to run from the halfway line most of the time while normally he would get it wide in the final 3rd. It's easy to defend against nowadays because he effectively is up against two players plus any DM's who could potentially come over and cover.

Shaw has to come from deep to get into any attacking positions which is fine when playing LB with a winger in front of you but with the whole emphasis on him to provide the attack down the left then he's going to struggle. LvG is asking a defensively minded LB to run 40 yards, beat two men to get essentially into a dangerous position.

Obviously the alternative is come back to the CB's and let them bring the ball out which we know doesn't work. Our CB's are basically doing the CM's job in terms of ball distribution and positioning when on the attack which results in our CB's trying hollywood balls or firing it into our strikers feet 30 yards from goal. Or our "winger" will just have to float a cross from deep which is very predictable and easy to defend against, our system is easy to set up against, it doesn't pull the opposition out of position at all, they are able to remain rigid and stick to their zones. If our "wingers" were able to isolate their full-backs one on one then we would enjoy much more success but for that to happen we need the right personnel and IMO a full-back behind them.

 

[Raoul]

We need the width of proper wingers not wingbacks, which of course isn't likely under 3-5-2 or 5-3-2. Valencia, despite being an actual winger, is no longer effective and the likes of Shaw, Young, and Blind on the left isn't going to provide it either.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

It would probably not help us much but boyy, what i wouldn't do to see Nani and Januzaj/Di Maria out wide.

 

[Ole90+3]

We have width, the problem is that those at wide positions pose no offensive threat whatsoever meaning they can simply be ignored by the oppo defence.

 

[Sandikan]

We have width, the problem is that those at wide positions pose no offensive threat whatsoever meaning they can simply be ignored by the oppo defence.

Nice 5 year bump

 

[thesheriffjw]

OGS is just plain embarrassing.

These tactics and players being used in these positions, do not work.

so its poor msnagement and poor trsining. Solely the mansgers fault

 

[El-Manos]

He needs to go now I’m afraid. Not good enough.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Some will defend Shaw because he got an assist for the first time in a year.

 

[marktan]

This is the primary reason we've struggled to beak down compact defences post SAF.

We haven't had proper wingers since SAF's last year. To make it worse we no longer have attacking full backs either.

 

[drmuji]

Well here we go again with sancho thing again

 

[calodo2003]

If we aren’t clicking, overloading the middle with two virtual 10s rarely works.

feck it, throw that San Pellegrino kid out wide against the Turks at OT.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Feck me, can't even remember making this thread, but its still relevant today. We're so fecking obsessed with playing down the middle. Doesn't make sense!

 

[NoLogo]

We needed width for the better part of 6 years now. No manager has fixed it. Criminal.

 

[C3Pique]

When Luke Shaw is your wide outlet you're fecked.

 

[RonaldoVII]

We need width but Woodward failed in the summer on that front and it'll contribute to Ole losing his job.

 

[CallyRed]

We have width. If your including Harry Maguire's slab.

 

[Ole90+3]

Nice 5 year bump

I didn't bump it. The post before me was deleted. Smart ass

 

[Sandikan]

I didn't bump it. The post before me was deleted. Smart ass

Stitched you up a cropper

 

[TMDaines]

When Luke Shaw is your wide outlet you're fecked.

We literally finished the match today with Scott McTominay and Fosu-Mensah on the right flank.

 

[Gabagoo]

We haven't addressed the wings in five years, and people think our recruitment under Woodward has been okay.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

We haven't addressed the wings in five years, and people think our recruitment under Woodward has been okay.

Technically, that's not true. We bought Dan James and have now added Pellestri and Diallo, who will be joining in January. We also went in for Sancho but were obviously priced out.

Could argue that we should have done that earlier, though. I know Jose wanted Perisic but not sure Woodward agreed with the deal due to age. Not sure about the other wingers we were strongly linked with.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Technically, that's not true. We bought Dan James and have now added Pellestri and Diallo, who will be joining in January. We also went in for Sancho but were obviously priced out.

Could argue that we should have done that earlier, though. I know Jose wanted Perisic but not sure Woodward agreed with the deal due to age. Not sure about the other wingers we were strongly linked with.

James doesn't play like a winger, Pellestri isn't close to being first team ready and Diallo?! who knows if he will be good enough either.

We're stuck with Mata when Greenwood isn't ready. That really isn't addressing the issue.

When was the last time we had an actual winger that can skip passed a player easily? Nani or Valencia. It's mind boggling that a club famed for their wing play has no bloody wingers.

 

[Xaviboy]

I think if Poch does end up coming in he will play with width by using wing backs on either side as attacking outlets.

Spurs were very good when Tripper and Davies/Rose kept width and got forward. Used 3 centre backs. 3-4-2-1 System.

Think he will get Shaw going as knows him from Southampton days as LWB, battle it out with Telles for that Role. Issue is at RWB will need to work on AWB attacking outlet as he is weak at that. Interesting to see how he can coach that in to AWB.
He will use Fernandes as player to help out in midfield and get forward (Erickson role) and use Rashford and Martial as other attacking players. Martial maybe used as the 9(Kane role) and Rashford free role to come out to the left (Son role) its who he fancies for the 2 central midfield role, 2 disciplined midfielders.

 

[Mihai]

When Luke Shaw is your wide outlet you're fecked.

There's not many players wider than him, tbh.

 

[bsCallout]

So I recently watched some footage of United under Fergie and this seems to be the one thing that doesn't get mentioned even by our own ex-players.

United of old seemed to constantly play the ball wide, quickly, switch quickly, and even counter with width to create space.

The other thing that was very clear with how we played, and how Liverpool play and how City played when they last won the league is that all those teams didn't overwork the ball before creating the chance.

Now I know Pep tends to have his teams pass a lot but the most important thing was creating chances quickly.

The easiest way to do this is putting balls into the box, United always done that under SAF. Even if the players crossing weren't particularly great crossers.

You have to play the odds. Play aggressive with the ball, put it into an area that makes a defender rush and that allows the team to not only attack the ball but attack the spaces looking to pick up a loose ball. It also makes it harder for the other team to build their own attacks as they are just reacting.

We spend way too long looking for the perfect pass, the perfect cross, the perfect shot, the perfect space to put the ball. Bruno is the exception to this and he would have been incredible in a SAF team. Unfortunately we don't press well enough and we are awful at going for the 1st or 2nd ball.

Salah is pretty awful at finishing compared to some of the great strikers in the Prem but he takes enough oppurtunities that enough come off and he scores a lot. RVP was a player that actually missed quite a lot of simple shots, but he only had one objective - to get another shot off and test the keeper again. Greenwood is clinical but his thought is simple - get a shot off as quickly as possible.

Why was Rashford so good against Leipzig? Because he didn't think. He got his shot off quickly.

Shaw, Maguire, AWB, Pogba & Rashford are all players that take way too long with the ball.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Interestingly, rarely heard about this being mention by the so called expert pundits, even our ex-United players and legends.
Hmm...

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

https://threader.app/thread/1324357723278987265

Here's a very good analysis of the biggest issues currently.

 

[Green_Red]

January is only 8 weeks away...

 

[Green_Red]

I'd love to know whether its had much of an impact on subscriptions to Sky and BT too. I cancelled both when it was announced.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

We have zero players that can beat a man consistently from a standing start. Martial can but he is a striker. Pogba can but he is not to be trusted.

Zaha or Adama Traore should have been brought in. They are not world beaters but would add so much to our flanks.

 

[Gopher Brown]

Well here we go again with sancho thing again

I know it has been said before but it’s a fecking shambles for us to have put all our eggs in one basket.

Woody was lauding our scouting system when we signed Wan Bissaka - supposedly we looked at over 800 right backs before deciding, rather conveniently, the best one available happened to be playing in England already.

What the hell happened to our other options when he realised we weren’t going to be able to sign Sancho? There are players out there who could make an immediate contribution who aren’t just the obvious, most famous name.

 

[drmuji]

I know it has been said before but it’s a fecking shambles for us to have put all our eggs in one basket.

Woody was lauding our scouting system when we signed Wan Bissaka - supposedly we looked at over 800 right backs before deciding, rather conveniently, the best one available happened to be playing in England already.

What the hell happened to our other options when he realised we weren’t going to be able to sign Sancho? There are players out there who could make an immediate contribution who aren’t just the obvious, most famous name.

Exactly. Woody just thought that they would budge on the last day and send sancho to us. By all means, Pallistri and Taore are not finished products and would not impact the team directly. Probably thats why they went for Ousmane on the last day. If they wanted Ousmane, then why wait till last day.
We were an absolute joke in transfer market this season. Just a complete joke

 

[windco]

We have zero players that can beat a man consistently from a standing start. Martial can but he is a striker. Pogba can but he is not to be trusted.

Zaha or Adama Traore should have been brought in. They are not world beaters but would add so much to our flanks.

Mourinho wanted to bring Perisic and Willian yet the board thought they know better , the players thought they know better , and the fans thought they know better than someone with 25 major trophies. Perisic went to have cracking world cup and treble winner ,Willian had UEL and FA cup medal while we are trophyless with Rashford , Martial and Pogba playing regularly

 

[Web of Bissaka]

https://threader.app/thread/1324357723278987265

Here's a very good analysis of the biggest issues currently.

Difficult reading through that. Ended up couldn't finish it. Maybe later once I get back my mental strength.

Cheers for sharing.

 

[red4ever 79]

Technically, that's not true. We bought Dan James and have now added Pellestri and Diallo, who will be joining in January. We also went in for Sancho but were obviously priced out.

Could argue that we should have done that earlier, though. I know Jose wanted Perisic but not sure Woodward agreed with the deal due to age. Not sure about the other wingers we were strongly linked with.

Thats the major issue right there. 1st one is rubbish, 2nd one not ready 3rd one. No one knows.

Needed a RW for the first team now. Guy from Wolves would have been good in my opinion

 

[archiebald]

James doesn't play like a winger, Pellestri isn't close to being first team ready and Diallo?! who knows if he will be good enough either.

We're stuck with Mata when Greenwood isn't ready. That really isn't addressing the issue.

When was the last time we had an actual winger that can skip passed a player easily? Nani or Valencia. It's mind boggling that a club famed for their wing play has no bloody wingers.

James's only logical position is on the wing, if he can't even do a job there might as well feck off to track & field where he at least gets to make use of his only attribute.

 

[Gabagoo]

Technically, that's not true. We bought Dan James and have now added Pellestri and Diallo, who will be joining in January. We also went in for Sancho but were obviously priced out.

Could argue that we should have done that earlier, though. I know Jose wanted Perisic but not sure Woodward agreed with the deal due to age. Not sure about the other wingers we were strongly linked with.

We needed at least one senior winger that would come in and improve on what we already had.

We bought James who is absolutely shit and wouldn't improve any team in the top half of the division, so I don't know if he really counts.

As for the two teenagers, neither of them are or have been bought as first team squad members, so neither of them counts.

Besides, Pellestri doesn't look up to much, at least in the videos I've seen of him. He won't make it here. Traore looks alright - I'm not getting "looks Messi in training" vibes but he looks decent.

Manchester United must do better, the above isn't good enough I'm afraid.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Feck me, can't even remember making this thread, but its still relevant today. We're so fecking obsessed with playing down the middle. Doesn't make sense!

We don't have wingers so it actually does make sense.