People don’t seem to understand that. Yes, the “tough wins” where you “dig deep” & “win playing badly” do win you titles, but you’re supposed to get about 4-5 of them a season, not every bloody game!You can just look up their results in December/January.
2-1, 2-1, 4-0, 4-1, 4-0, 1-0, 0-0, 3-1, 3-4, 3-1. Eight wins, one draw, one defeat, 26 goals scored, 8 conceded. If that's a struggle, well, I'd take a struggle like that any time.
Also, the idea that "the tough wins" bring you the title is rubbish. Getting a lot of points is how you win the title and you're more likely to get a lot of points if you play well most of the time and trash some teams. If you're forced to grind against absolutely everyone, you won't win a title.
Why isn't is sustainable? We genuinely dominate games after going a goal down.The only PL games we've been comfortable in have been against Everton and Leeds. Our results have been a lot better than our performances which is in no way sustainable. Even if we won the league playing the way we've been playing we're still papering over enormous cracks.
Totally agree, Saturday is a must win nowI really hate the idea that a 38-year-old Phil Jagielka was able to shut down Man Utd at Old Trafford. Sheffield Utd had 8 or 9 players missing, they couldn't even make a full bench! There are certain patterns going on that means we shouldn't just right off last night as a freak result. We conceded first yet again, we conceded from a corner yet again, we looked impotent and disinterested going forward yet again, we weren't able to control the game for any significant period of time yet again, we were relying on a moment of individual brilliance to win us the game yet again. These are seriously concerning issues that have been bubbling under the surface and finally bit us on the arse last night.
To be fair there have been some questionable refereeing decisions too. Maguire v Burnely, Maguire v SU.I hate being branded as kneejerk when I said we were going to come unstuck and the luck would run out well before we got beat last night because that sort of form is unsustainable for a team challenging for the league
Questionable I agree but if we actually created more chances and stuck them away then it wouldn't be a crucial factorTo be fair there have been some questionable refereeing decisions too. Maguire v Burnely, Maguire v SU.
Agreed, I was just saying that to put perspective on the luck element. We haven't been as lucky as people think.Questionable I agree but if we actually created more chances and stuck them away then it wouldn't be a crucial factor
I think this is crucial. Everyone goes through a bit of bad form but I fear we have the capability to fall apart after a bad result.This could be the wake up call we needed. A defeat against Arsenal might’ve been shrugged off as a one-off defeat. Yesterday, though, was a kick in the balls. If the team can win against Arsenal, we can easily put this result behind us. Lose again and we’re in danger of unravelling.
Yeah the wheels could quite easily come off knowing how easily this team can fold under pressureI think this is crucial. Everyone goes through a bit of bad form but I fear we have the capability to fall apart after a bad result.
Totally agree but has he got the stones to put the hammer down on underperforming players for the good of the teamWe were teed up perfectly for a letdown after having beaten Liverpool in thrilling fashion, but I too am surprised we were feckless against relegation fodder.
There’s plenty of blame to go around but I can’t take my eyes off at how shocking Martial was. Nearly every poster here called for him to be subbed off at HT but Ole kept the faith. Looking ahead, there simply have to be consequences for players who don’t give a shit. If you make a mistake while trying to make something happen, that’s part of life. But sulking and watching your theammates bust their ass, however I effectively, is inexcusable.
Ole needs to put the hammer down on players who down tools. If not, what’s the point of all of this?
I don't think we do dominate games other than the 2 I've already mentioned. We may have a 15-20 minute period where we play good football and it all seems to click but we then revert back to being susceptible and give teams the chance to get back at us. This is what's not sustainable.Why isn't is sustainable? We genuinely dominate games after going a goal down.
We arent going to concede early every games, thats not sustainable and isnt a reflection on how we control games imo.
What games did we not deserve to win? Id even say we deserved the wins v Leicester and Liverpool if anything.
Its this retconning after the fact that annoys me, that all of a sudden winning isnt good enough but we have to be conformable doing it.
Even if all that was true, last night was not a reflection if how we normally play anyway
Expected goals is not designed to be used over just one game.I'm quoting xG for that specific game. Not for their whole season. We scored late against them, its easy to think then could had just hold on for 5-10 more minutes and we would have drawn.
Well then what metric can we use to say if a game should been won by some team?Expected goals is not designed to be used over just one game.
It means little in that context.
Are they really? And by how much?What makes me laugh about the negative posters on here is that they were the ones saying we'd be 20pts or more behind first again. Now we are just 1 pt and still aren't happy.
The team is out performing their expectations and they still moan.
Don't worry..tantrums are quite normal over here. Some children find the teenage years very challenging.The absolute over reaction by some on this forum is staggering.
Don’t get me wrong, I was raging last night, about the manner of our defeat, the team we lost to and the humiliation of doing so given the season they are having, the frustration of dropping points compared to city - but you know what? It happens. It’s one game. 3pts.
We’re still 2nd, we can still challenge for the league, and we can still have a good season.
It’s not like it hasn’t happened before. Anyone remember 6-3 against Southampton and the embarrassing debacle of the invisible grey shirts?? We won the league then too.
Take a breath. We go again at the weekend - let’s hope we see a reaction.
Well of course, their offensive power is also better than ours. On the other hand we seem to be better at winning tight games where they drop points often. They are a far better team than us though and will win the league comfortably, the overexcitement of our fanbase about being in the title race was driven mostly by City having played two games less which put them 7-8 points behind us at some points during season. Once they got those games out of the way and got some easier fixtures in (as recently) it was clear they'd have jumped above us. Liverpool have looked fragile, City have looked mostly uninspiring but solid. We have been punching above our weight.City are winning more games comfortably than we are though. I mean, the goal difference alone shows it quite clearly. They have eight wins by more than one goal, we have four. And they had their best striker out pretty much all season.
The result maybe?Well then what metric can we use to say if a game should been won by some team?
Well obviously the result is the most important one, but when debating if a team should or shouldnt win just looking at the result isnt much of a debate is it?The result maybe?
Just a thought.
Expected goals should not be used on a game by game basis, it's designed to be used over a whole season.
If a team don't take their chances then that's their fault, and doesn't really mean that they should have won the game.
A team who scores more deserve to win the game as that is the aim of the game at the end of the day!
Dunno, Derby stank the league out not so long ago....Even with us winning all these games by the edge I will never buy the argument that yesterday was coming. Those feckers are the worst PL team I've seen ever. Never seen a worse team than this years sheffield. They had 1 win in 19 games come to OT and go away with a win but not just that, the fact that we could barely create anything against them is the most pathetic, not the loss iself.
Even if a close win is 'deserved' it remains a close win. Which is why looking at goal difference makes a lot of sense as some have suggested here. At face value there not be a difference between a 3-2 win and a 3-0 win as they both yield you three points. But even if the 3-2 accurately reflects how the game went in terms of domination and chances and is therefore deserved, such a distribution of chances will throw up a lot of draws and even losses because that's the nature of football. This is a lot less likely if you outperform your opponent by two or three goals.rubbish, all the 'close' wins barring the brighton game were ones which we deserved to win. don't be fooled by the late goals or comeback victories. in a run of games which come thick and fast we will get such games and results considering we are not the finished article. it is good to temper expectations keeping that in mind.
That was 13 years ago... Personally I consider that at least a little while ago.Dunno, Derby stank the league out not so long ago....
I think it was coming. Thought it would more likely be against Arsenal rather than last night but a lot of our performances lately just haven't been that good, and Ole has been pointlessly sodding about with the areas of the pitch where we were actually performing well.Even with us winning all these games by the edge I will never buy the argument that yesterday was coming. Those feckers are the worst PL team I've seen ever. Never seen a worse team than this years sheffield. They had 1 win in 19 games come to OT and go away with a win but not just that, the fact that we could barely create anything against them is the most pathetic, not the loss iself.
True, but nor is saying expected goals was a lot more than they scored so they should have won!!Well obviously the result is the most important one, but when debating if a team should or shouldnt win just looking at the result isnt much of a debate is it?
Haha who are City dropping points to then do please enlighten me on that one, don't say Spurs after that shocking performance from them tonight and the scousers could easily get shut out by City's rock solid defence tooYou'd think we were on the brink of relegation based off the post reaction from Sheffield (not just here, across all SM).
Massive overreaction. Yes we were not good and there were some poor individual performances, but we also lost in part due to some dodgy refereeing too. We were never favourites (and I thought most people understood since many have also cautioned that we may not be quite there yet), however we are still very much in the mix imo. Liverpool will drop more points. City will drop more points.
I have my doubts about that, but Ole did bench Pogba for a while. Still, the book on Ole is that he’s pretty stubborn. My guess is that he’ll stick with Martial, despite all the knowable evidence that Cavani is the superior striker.Totally agree but has he got the stones to put the hammer down on underperforming players for the good of the team
Not massively, considering how the season has gone for the other top clubs.The team is out performing their expectations and they still moan.
We're on course for 76 points in the league and couldn't get out the CL group stage. If that is us significantly overperforming then God help us.We have been punching above our weight.
It absolutely amazes me that people think there is no correlation between performances and results. We've won 1 league game convincingly all season (Leeds), the results were not sustainable.Even if a close win is 'deserved' it remains a close win. Which is why looking at goal difference makes a lot of sense as some have suggested here. At face value there not be a difference between a 3-2 win and a 3-0 win as they both yield you three points. But even if the 3-2 accurately reflects how the game went in terms of domination and chances and is therefore deserved, such a distribution of chances will throw up a lot of draws and even losses because that's the nature of football. This is a lot less likely if you outperform your opponent by two or three goals.
