he's nailed on to get it
We were a ticking time bomb
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Yeah I think it was complacency after the high of beating Liverpool in the Cup. It's something the coaching team need to sort out and hopefully the players learn from it and approach games like this in the same manner as they do the 'big games' in future.
Haven't been on the forum much since Wednesday's result and just saw this thread.
C'mon, it's not so bad. We just put 3 past Liverpool and knocked them out of the cup, we're in contention to win the league despite a horrible start following a summer where most felt the manager wasn't properly backed and our squad lacked the quality to hit top 4.
And re: the game itself, SHU scored a goal which should've been disallowed. Then the winner came from a huge rogue deflection. We also hit the bar, had a goal disallowed for the same thing, etc. 9 times out of 10, the comments are along the lines of "Not our best performance but glad we got the 3 points."
C'mon, it's not so bad. We just put 3 past Liverpool and knocked them out of the cup, we're in contention to win the league despite a horrible start following a summer where most felt the manager wasn't properly backed and our squad lacked the quality to hit top 4.
And re: the game itself, SHU scored a goal which should've been disallowed. Then the winner came from a huge rogue deflection. We also hit the bar, had a goal disallowed for the same thing, etc. 9 times out of 10, the comments are along the lines of "Not our best performance but glad we got the 3 points."
Sheff Utd
Is it time for a ‘Redcafe goes into meltdown’ thread?
It's not about the score itself for me against SU, but the performance which was to say the least, abject.
Still pissed off about it 48h afterwards.
Another rubbish thread by the drama queen that is cartwheel face.
Bad performance. It happens and has already happened to all teams at the top.
Bad performance. It happens and has already happened to all teams at the top.
Absolutely agree with the link to the previous big game. I don’t think the complacency was conscious - this is an honest hard working team - rather a subconscious complacency which is understandable. You will see it in any human endeavour.
Coaching may help but ultimately it will only cease to be an issue when the “big win” is expected and is considered a stepping stone rather than a destination. Recent wins for City and Liverpool should help focus minds. Perfect game this weekend.
The team needs to up their game a little. Quicker passing, more effort all round. If ole could make them do this ,we could finish in 1st/2nd place at the end of the season. Small margins.
Because we’re not good on the ball obviously. We can’t keep possession for more then 3 passes. I think we could dominate games with the players we have if we set up to & worked on ball retention in training. Bruno looks like he’s playing freestyle football most games. We’re clearly being coached to play at an exceptionally quick tempo, which means plenty of turnovers. There’s games to play that way absolutely, but there’s many games where we should play a short passing game on too.
Once you resort to name calling you concede the argument.
I know it's not a concious thing but that's why it needs the coaching team and the players to be aware that they may not be as up for this match and remind each other to focus so that they do battle for every ball and play with intensity.
United's.
The idea that it's not sustainable obviously has some merit if we're talking about winning the league - and especially if we're talking about winning the league under normal circumstances (but these are not normal circumstances, lest we forget).
However, I don't agree at all that the last match proves in any way that what has been our normal level and type of performance for many weeks now is a disaster waiting to happen. That does not follow. Last match was shite - it was a shite performance. The problem wasn't that our normal level suddenly wasn't good enough against one of the weaker sides in the league (because we simply ran out of luck, or moments of random individual brilliance, or whatever the idea might be). We didn't play at our normal level - simple as that. There's no reason to think that we would've lost if we had remained at the normal level.
I'm both a believer and a non-believer in stats. But I agree with those who point to both xG and GD as worrying indicators. But - again - this is only truly worrying if we're talking about winning the league. And - surely - we aren't? If that happens it will most likely come about as the result of a generally chaotic, unpredictable season. Not as the result of Manchester United being the superior team in England all things said and done.
However, I don't agree at all that the last match proves in any way that what has been our normal level and type of performance for many weeks now is a disaster waiting to happen. That does not follow. Last match was shite - it was a shite performance. The problem wasn't that our normal level suddenly wasn't good enough against one of the weaker sides in the league (because we simply ran out of luck, or moments of random individual brilliance, or whatever the idea might be). We didn't play at our normal level - simple as that. There's no reason to think that we would've lost if we had remained at the normal level.
I'm both a believer and a non-believer in stats. But I agree with those who point to both xG and GD as worrying indicators. But - again - this is only truly worrying if we're talking about winning the league. And - surely - we aren't? If that happens it will most likely come about as the result of a generally chaotic, unpredictable season. Not as the result of Manchester United being the superior team in England all things said and done.
The strikers and Bruno really need to up their game. I've no real gripe with the rest of the team.
If you look at our last 10 games in all comps, the only time the sides were separated by more than a goal was the time City beat us 2 nil in the league cup. Burnley, Wolves, Watford, Villa, loss to City and 0 0 draw v Pool, Fulham and of course Sheffield the other night have all been in the last 4 weeks. The cup game against Pool last week was the only real decent performance in there which I find worrying.
We are going to see a poorer run of results coming up if Bruno, Rashford and Martial continue in their current dire form. Yes Bruno is included as he has done nothing in the last 10 games bar that free kick against pool last Sunday.
Well why shouldnt we be contenders? We have the first or second d most expensively assembled squad in the league, so why not?
I cant say I agree either with us just being unlucky the other night, we really really shouldn't need to rely on such fine margins against one of the worst teams the PL has seen who were missing about 8 players.
The worrying part is that the performance the other night wasnt all that far behind what we have seen against Burnley, Fulham, Wolves, Villa, City in league cup in the last few weeks. It's just that most of those performances were plastered over by a moment of brilliance. So I do think the OP is correct....its been coming and there will be more like this if we dont shape up and fast.
I didn't say we were unlucky - I said we were shit.
The argument seems to be (from some people) that we ran out of luck and thus were "found out". I disagree with that conclusion - we were just a bit shit. And shit...happens.
And you are posting this with a straight face? Or is it sarcasm? We have a squad built from three very different managers and a bunch of players we need to get off the books.
As for the OP. Ohh the drama
If super-fast counter-attacking is playing to our strengths and it works, there's no problem. Unfortunately we saw it go wrong against Sheffield Utd because we were too keen to launch a counter, the same as when Rashford was caught offside multiple times recently. We can work on not jumping the gun, but I'm not sure playing pretty passes in front of them when they're defending deep would've helped. Most teams will sit deep against us.
Fair enough.
I just think we have been a bit shit the last 10 games or so which is the problem.
I didnt realise you had to have a squad built by the one manager in order to win the league? It certainly didnt stop Jose in his first or second Chelsea spell or Conte or Ancelotti or Ranieri or Pellegrini....that's 6 examples. I'm sure there is more if we look at other leagues.And you are posting this with a straight face? Or is it sarcasm? We have a squad built from three very different managers and a bunch of players we need to get off the books.
As for the OP. Ohh the drama
Clearly then having players in your squad inherited from previous managers is not an automatic bar to winning the league. In any event, I'm not sure if there are any LVG signings left at this stage? Shaw, not sure if any others so it is really a squad built by two managers not three. Add in the fact that our squad is first or second in terms of transfer value and defo first interms of salaries, there is no reason why we shouldnt challenge.
So no, no sarcasm from me. We are second after all at the half way point.
What I see us lacking is a game plan for small teams. Our counter-attacking game works well for big teams like Liverpool and City, but we can't play the same when a team sits deep and keeps five behind the line. Solskjaer needs to come up with a way to break up defenses and create chances in the box.
Last game against Sheffield I saw a lazy team just going through the paces. There was no creativity in the final third and our defense crumbled time and again. The second goal should not have been. De Gea passing the ball instead of taking it to the stands? It was like suddenly the boys ran out of ideas. If we do the same for a mid-table team we'll be looking at 3 or even 4-Nil. I hope the boys find some spark somewhere for the Arsenal game tomorrow.
GGMU!
GGMU!
It is the general consensus.Managers need a set of fitting players to complete their style. Some are even lucky enough being at a club consistent in their style bringing managers to complement.
Shock horror. We even have 3 first team players signed by LVG. But my point was, we have a squad built of 3 different styles. Being where we are is a massive bonus. But still a long way to go
If we can get 100 mill selling Mata, Matic and Jones, I’m all for it mate!
Nothing wrong with winning tight matches, winning so many matches in that manner shows the character and belief in the team. Supporters shouldn't lose sight that this group of players are still work in progress. The defeat to Sheffield United was totally different, it was truly awful performance collectively and individually and will look much worse if as expected City hammer them tomorrow.
Uniteds current league season reminds me Liverpool under Klopp in his 2nd full season. They had 38 points after 20 games and finished 4th with 75 points.
Liverpool improved they squad further after that by replacing their remaining dead wood with quality starters or squad players United need to do likewise this summer but I fear with Woodward and Judge over transfers that won't be done.
Uniteds current league season reminds me Liverpool under Klopp in his 2nd full season. They had 38 points after 20 games and finished 4th with 75 points.
Liverpool improved they squad further after that by replacing their remaining dead wood with quality starters or squad players United need to do likewise this summer but I fear with Woodward and Judge over transfers that won't be done.
2 wins in the last 7 in the league...
Top 4 is a worry, definitely can't take it for granted.
Top 4 is a worry, definitely can't take it for granted.
We have been actually quite lucky Leicester have lost a lot of silly points recently otherwise we would have dropped to 3rd a long time. They had several opportunities to put more pressure on us in 2nd but threw most of them away.
All my enthusiasm for this season went with the Everton debacle. Shambles.
Yup exactly this. We go through some runs of consistent wins and then runs like this one. But over a year, mid 70s points is probably our level. Which is pretty much 3rd place level and thats it. Which is fine, a nice improvement and one that's been roughly our level since Ole took over with consistent improvement (Mourinho in 17/18 being 2nd with 81 points was a massive fluke, especially if you look at our xG. Significant overperformance with finishing and goalkeeping).
But to be more, we need to fill the gaps in our team. We need to complete our attack and address the long standing right wing issue. Greenwood isn't a winger, though he does a job. He doesn't balance well with Rashford on the other side though. Sancho would be a game changer for us in attack. Then our CBs are regular problems one reason or another, and then the 2 behind Bruno just aren't quite good enough but are very useful squad players.
It's about incremental improvement. But we aren't going to be true title challengers without addressing right wing and center back, and then title winners until the midfield is properly sorted (can be as simple as signing Ndidi or someone like that and keeping Pogba, to have a trio of Pogba/bruno/ndidi).
It's not really lucky. It's just the level of the clubs. You can say they're lucky we threw away results to Sheffield Utd and West Brom or the Everton collapse. All the clubs over time perform roughly to their level... ours is pretty much the 2nd best in the league this season.
Except I was right though wasn’t I?
We need proper coaching and a centre back. The rollercoaster is going to continue unless we get both.
You're right, but your near constant melodramatic posting style hinders any kind of agreement from folk who might agree otherwise.
I just want us to be good. Maybe I wouldn’t be so dramatic if we hadn’t been useless for 8 years. In fact, no, we’ve not been useless the entire time, we have periods where I start to believe again; then we turn to shit. It’s almost worse in a way, it’s the hope that truly kills. At least if we were useless all the time I wouldn’t any hope & could just enjoy sweet indifference. This fecking club man..