We will never win the league with Bruno Fernandes in the team...

[Stacks]

Pathetic post. You go on about how he's an important part of our attacking engine but the only thing you can talk about is his work rate.

Face it, he doesn't have the quality to start for us if we want to win the league. Of course, you can wait for history to prove me right but I somewhat doubt you'd come back and admit you've been wrong, just how you were wrong on the bottler from Norway.

huh? Look at some of Arsenals players

 

[eire-red]

I kind of feel for him a little. I didn't like the attitude or the body language, but some of the criticism is over the top. Like Neville on about him holding his face and feigning injury, what about Robertson in the first half? He deserves to shoulder some blame, but it's not right to pick a scapegoat when the team loses 7 bloody nil because it was a shocker performance all round, and you could single out any of them.

He's not a right winger, nor is he a left winger. He's been shifted all over the place, playing 90 mins every 3 days for the past number of months. Needs a rest, but he also needs to start playing in his best position for the team. The Weghorts as a defensive 10 experiment has to stop.

 

[lex talionis]

[I understand your point about drop off considering VDB is supposed to be his direct competition.
Unlike most you go through the whole forum and you wont see a single post of mine calling him out for that game. I don’t believe ETH trust him in that central position in big away games recently. If that’s the case I am in agreement with him.
We all in denial but Liverpool were better than us and by a mile. Barring Bruno, Rashford, WW and DDG all the other players are well rested. Klopp just beat us tactically.

All good on having a contrary opinion. Bruno was shit v Liverpool...but so was everyone else. We can't replace the entire squad, can we?

Why? It would require the mind of someone like ETH to understand why, but if it was about Klopp's tactics the slaughter would have taken place in the first half, not the second half. We went mano a mano with Liverpool in the first half.

Maybe I'm biased, but I see great value in Bruno but he does have weaknesses. The problem I see with Bruno is that he takes too many risks, and some do pay off but a lot don't. But beyond that we're too reliant on him. Donny was supposed to be that guy who exploits pockets of space between defenders but after a relatively bright start for us a few seasons ago has gone into witness protection and how he's out for the rest of the season. Eriksen could have been that guy too but we need him to play in a slightly deeper role, given our shortage of midfielders.

We've got work to do over the summer, but getting rid of Bruno shouldn't be deemed a priority.

 

[KikiDaKats]

All good on having a contrary opinion. Bruno was shit v Liverpool...but so was everyone else. We can't replace the entire squad, can we?

Why? It would require the mind of someone like ETH to understand why, but if it was about Klopp's tactics the slaughter would have taken place in the first half, not the second half. We went mano a mano with Liverpool in the first half.

Maybe I'm biased, but I see great value in Bruno but he does have weaknesses. The problem I see with Bruno is that he takes too many risks, and some do pay off but a lot don't. But beyond that we're too reliant on him. Donny was supposed to be that guy who exploits pockets of space between defenders but after a relatively bright start for us a few seasons ago has gone into witness protection and how he's out for the rest of the season. Eriksen could have been that guy too but we need him to play in a slightly deeper role, given our shortage of midfielders.

We've got work to do over the summer, but getting rid of Bruno shouldn't be deemed a priority.

I don’t need ETH brain to tell me Liverpool were better 0-25 and 46-90. Bruno on Trent made sense but it somehow left Shaw more exposed than expected because the Fred cover was moved to Antony who was supposed to be doing the Rashford job. If you watch us closely wherever Fred defends the second ball is a 50/50 but here we lost that from the left unto the right and it left Marinez/Shaw having no direct duels to contest. Every manager gets it wrong sometimes and it doesn’t define their work or capability.

Im going to reply to the Bruno statement with

Veron was my favourite player in the late 90s but I wanted Rui Costa because he can dribble when in a jam, whilst Veron only had one way of getting out of trouble, a pass. That variation is what makes a great attacking midfielder. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate his contributions as a player and I believe he should not be sold but the attacking transitions should not be built around his limited armoury.
I don’t mind his antics because it’s not my place to question someone’s personality. His suits him.

 

[lex talionis]

I don’t need ETH brain to tell me Liverpool were better 0-25 and 46-90. Bruno on Trent made sense but it somehow left Shaw more exposed than expected because the Fred cover was moved to Antony who was supposed to be doing the Rashford job. If you watch us closely wherever Fred defends the second ball is a 50/50 but here we lost that from the left unto the right and it left Marinez/Shaw having no direct duels to contest. Every manager gets it wrong sometimes and it doesn’t define their work or capability.

Im going to reply to the Bruno statement with

Veron was my favourite player in the late 90s but I wanted Rui Costa because he can dribble when in a jam, whilst Veron only had one way of getting out of trouble, a pass. That variation is what makes a great attacking midfielder. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate his contributions as a player and I believe he should not be sold but the attacking transitions should not be built around his limited armoury.
I don’t mind his antics because it’s not my place to question someone’s personality. His suits him.

When you lose 1-0 you can question tactics. But when you lose 7-0 it really is a case of one squad playing out of their skins and the other squad collapsing. It’s really just that simple.

But I do agree with you that we’re too reliant on Bruno. He’s great but he’s not a legendary talent. He needs De Jong to help carry the midfield burden and he needs more rest. We had to run him hard over the last few months to get us into the top four, beat Barcelona and lift our first cup in six seasons, but we paid a price for all that. There is no one else in the roster we could have called on to sit Bruno down v Liverpool. And not just Bruno either.

 

[MiceOnMeth]

He's been ran hard since he got here I wonder how much of that is catching up on him?

 

[sglowrider]

He's been ran hard since he got here I wonder how much of that is catching up on him?

A lot. With so many games, I am sure he is mentally fatigued and that's when you lose self-control and self-awareness.

 

[KikiDaKats]

When you lose 1-0 you can question tactics. But when you lose 7-0 it really is a case of one squad playing out of their skins and the other squad collapsing. It’s really just that simple.

But I do agree with you that we’re too reliant on Bruno. He’s great but he’s not a legendary talent. He needs De Jong to help carry the midfield burden and he needs more rest. We had to run him hard over the last few months to get us into the top four, beat Barcelona and lift our first cup in six seasons, but we paid a price for all that. There is no one else in the roster we could have called on to sit Bruno down v Liverpool. And not just Bruno either.

We have a very thin squad and that’s taking its toll, it’s not a new thing here. The last time we had a full and proper squad was in the 00s.

 

[hmchan]

It's shameful when you see fans defending Bruno by saying some other players were worse. Everyone was terrible but he was the apparent one who gave up, hence the singling out. If you think the captain can get a pass because there were worse performers, you're as much a disgrace as Bruno himself, this is not United standard.

 

[bringbackbebe]

It's shameful when you see fans defending Bruno by saying some other players were worse. Everyone was terrible but he was the apparent one who gave up, hence the singling out. If you think the captain can get a pass because there were worse performers, you're as much a disgrace as Bruno himself, this is not United standard.

Everyone has an off day. Some player's low are lower than others. He's been playing twice a week, every week. The trashing brought us back down to earth will help us improve. Take a chill.

 

[hmchan]

Everyone has an off day. Some player's low are lower than others. He's been playing twice a week, every week. The trashing brought us back down to earth will help us improve. Take a chill.

Everyone has an off day, but I have never seen a professional player demonstrates such attitude and behavior on an off day. Bigger problem is that this isn't an one-off incident like many of you suggest, he often loses composure when we are behind.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I'd be very tempted to cash in on him and try to bring in Wirtz from Leverkusen.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I'd be very tempted to cash in on him and try to bring in Wirtz from Leverkusen.

Don't think he's sellable. Who's going to buy him at his age and give him close to what we're giving him?

 

[Pearson]

Everyone has an off day, but I have never seen a professional player demonstrates such attitude and behavior on an off day. Bigger problem is that this isn't an one-off incident like many of you suggest, he often loses composure when we are behind.

often loses composure?

I remember United had been fairly good to fight back until that bad game when they fell behind many times this season. That shows United had a good fighting spirit. And he was a captain for that team too. People will agree with me that ETH picked him as out captain for a good reason.

he had a bad day, terrible day maybe. And he should have done better. I agree with that, and I think that is enough. Let us hope he learnt something from it and bounced back soon. he is still one of our best performers.

 

[hmchan]

often loses composure?

I remember United had been fairly good to fight back until that bad game when they fell behind many times this season. That shows United had a good fighting spirit. And he was a captain for that team too. People will agree with me that ETH picked him as out captain for a good reason.

he had a bad day, terrible day maybe. And he should have done better. I agree with that, and I think that is enough. Let us hope he learnt something from it and bounced back soon. he is still one of our best performers.

There are plenty of examples but the standout one is our home defeat against Villa last season, which I wrote an analysis particularly on this matter. When we fell behind, Bruno started to lose composure even there was plenty of time left. He called for ball at deep positions, followed by his trademark hollywood passes straight to the opponents. There was one occassion where he went to RB, asked for ball from de Gea, and hit it directly to the opposition GK. It was so ridiculous that even Ronaldo asked him to calm down.

Such kind of negative influence is not what you want from your captain. I know he's just too eager to chase for an equalizer but his temper and emotion get over his head too often. This Liverpool game just magnifies this problem which has existed for a long time, and people raise this issue for a reason. ten Hag picked him because there was no better candidate, it doesn't mean we have to stick with him forever.

 

[crossy1686]

I'd be very tempted to cash in on him and try to bring in Wirtz from Leverkusen.

If Barcelona were daft enough to make a big bid in the summer I'd consider selling him. Once they sort their finances out with more levers that is.

 

[Vapor trail]

I'd be very tempted to cash in on him and try to bring in Wirtz from Leverkusen.

I agree to some extent, Bruno has too many imperfections that will unhinge the team in the higher tier competitions. People can use Arsenal as an example (of a team punching above their weight quality wise) but they have been the best performing team this season bar none. Whenever you observe Bruno over the 90 mins he is often a hindrance to turning over possession and lacking the correct judgement. For a possession orientated manager he's a liability. There's no denying his qualities as a player but he's not polished enough in the phases of play.

The difference with turning over possession against a Leicester or West Ham is they won't necessarily punish you for it but against a Bayern, City or Madrid that is a 15 minute period of not having the ball coming under immediate pressure which can change the dynamic of the game. Those are the types of contributions Bruno has within himself and if he doesn't score and assist to make up for it, it's too much of a sacrifice. So there's a ceiling to this teams performances with him in the squad.

 

[Litch]

I think Bruno was great under Ole but I do wonder how hes going to cope longer term under ETH. He is very indisciplined in so many ways and his best football is when he is a free spirit.
My concern with Bruno is he doesnt turn up often enough in the big games.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

I kind of feel for him a little. I didn't like the attitude or the body language, but some of the criticism is over the top. Like Neville on about him holding his face and feigning injury, what about Robertson in the first half? He deserves to shoulder some blame, but it's not right to pick a scapegoat when the team loses 7 bloody nil because it was a shocker performance all round, and you could single out any of them.

He's not a right winger, nor is he a left winger. He's been shifted all over the place, playing 90 mins every 3 days for the past number of months. Needs a rest, but he also needs to start playing in his best position for the team. The Weghorts as a defensive 10 experiment has to stop.

Yes, livid that Robertson wasn't picked up on that by anyone, got Anthony a booking.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

It is not Bruno at all. Guy creates chances every game and is in the chance himself often.
I don't know what is that big issue about him? Losing the ball too much? Maybe he does but because of his risky play, he creates a lot of clear chances.

But, he does need to play on no10 position. I don't like seeing him on the wings. That is a waste.

I think it's more his character that's being called into question – whether it fits what ETH wants from a player.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Don't think he's sellable. Who's going to buy him at his age and give him close to what we're giving him?

He's 28. Not really old tbf.

He's not on obscene wages relatively, and maybe you can find a suitor.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think Bruno was great under Ole but I do wonder how hes going to cope longer term under ETH. He is very indisciplined in so many ways and his best football is when he is a free spirit.
My concern with Bruno is he doesnt turn up often enough in the big games.

He's been consistently terrible for us in big games.

I doubt people could name 3 games off the top of their head where he thrived in a big game.

 

[Desert Eagle]

He's 28. Not really old tbf.

He's not on obscene wages relatively, and maybe you can find a suitor.

Let's see. I think he'll be difficult to move on if we ever decide to do it.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I agree to some extent, Bruno has too many imperfections that will unhinge the team in the higher tier competitions. People can use Arsenal as an example (of a team punching above their weight quality wise) but they have been the best performing team this season bar none. Whenever you observe Bruno over the 90 mins he is often a hindrance to turning over possession and lacking the correct judgement. For a possession orientated manager he's a liability. There's no denying his qualities as a player but he's not polished enough in the phases of play.

The difference with turning over possession against a Leicester or West Ham is they won't necessarily punish you for it but against a Bayern, City or Madrid that is a 15 minute period of not having the ball coming under immediate pressure which can change the dynamic of the game. Those are the types of contributions Bruno has within himself and if he doesn't score and assist to make up for it, it's too much of a sacrifice. So there's a ceiling to this teams performances with him in the squad.

I said it in his performance thread.

He is the Maguire of our midfield.

He looks like he does good job against average teams but when it comes to the highest quality football games, Bruno is one big liability.

This Liverpool game just magnifies this problem which has existed for a long time, and people raise this issue for a reason. ten Hag picked him because there was no better candidate, it doesn't mean we have to stick with him forever.

And because benching Sancho & Garnacho is easier than benching Bruno.


Ten Hag is really confused on where to play him, he will try him as false 9, it fails, then he will let him go.

If Wout can take his number that easily then we need to find a 24 year old 'Odergaard' and replace him in the summer.

All the hammerings we have received since 2020, have been attributed to open midfield. We've tried to sort the midfield issue with Casemiro, Eriksen but still deficiency persist.

How can you be giving out 7-10 clear cut chances to City/Liverpool/Arsenal teams?

All this goals 90% are scored inside our box meaning we've been wide opened.

Funny thing is us, we don't open teams that way, even 'poor teams'

Ten Hag has scored only 4 goals in one match, against Villa.

We struggle to score more goals but we are extremely fragile to concede more goals.

All this is brought by having a weak midfield.



Look at our away record, we can't hold a game in better teams away from home. Why playing midfield 2.

Ten Hag can try all the magic he needs but until he disposes Bruno and we revert back to 433 we will never win big titles, as we can't win big away matches.

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[Resch]

I think Bruno would be perfect under a 4-4-2 diamond formation. He likes to press, but not to defend. Sometimes he acts more like a striker. ETH uses him as a OCM or a winger, but he is too careless with the ball, makes too many defensive mistakes. So his deficits overweight his positives effects too often.

 

[Maticmaker]

There is a petulance in Bruno's performances that shouldn't be part of any captain's 'skill set' and most definitely not in the situation we found ourselves after half time on Sunday.
When every half shot the opposition makes around the goal goes in, when the referee was not 50-50 in his decision making, when every time the opposition crossed the halfway line most of our players were either in the wrong positions, looking the wrong way, or just standing still watching what was going on, the last thing needed is for the captain to start acting like a big kid, waving his arms about, falling over, sulking.

Bruno is able to do some amazing things, because he takes risks, but when you are under the pressure we experienced on Sunday risking taking should be at a premium, 'when all about you are losing their heads' the captain should be the one who 'battens down the hatches'.

We can win the PL with Bruno playing in the right position, but not as captain. ETH presumably made Bruno captain in HM's absence, as an interim solution, its just blown up in his face!

 

[the gafferjs]

There is a petulance in Bruno's performances that shouldn't be part of any captain's 'skill set' and most definitely not in the situation we found ourselves after half time on Sunday.
When every half shot the opposition makes around the goal goes in, when the referee was not 50-50 in his decision making, when every time the opposition crossed the halfway line most of our players were either in the wrong positions, looking the wrong way, or just standing still watching what was going on, the last thing needed is for the captain to start acting like a big kid, waving his arms about, falling over, sulking.

Bruno is able to do some amazing things, because he takes risks, but when you are under the pressure we experienced on Sunday risking taking should be at a premium, 'when all about you are losing their heads' the captain should be the one who 'battens down the hatches'.

We can win the PL with Bruno playing in the right position, but not as captain. ETH presumably made Bruno captain in HM's absence, as an interim solution, its just blown up in his face!

Agree with all of this so much!

The Manger knows better than me but personally I think he has made a huge mistake backing Bruno on this and all but confirming there is no consequences for his actions, that is what angers me more to be honest as other players would not get the same benefit.

 

[Maticmaker]

Agree with all of this so much!

The Manger knows better than me but personally I think he has made a huge mistake backing Bruno on this and all but confirming there is no consequences for his actions, that is what angers me more to be honest as other players would not get the same benefit.

I also think ETH has slipped up with this appointment, even assuming its only temporary/interim you generally expect the captain to be 'the managers man on the pitch'. I don't think anyone doubts Bruno's commitment, but his fragile temperament and flashes of 'losing it' are not something I suspect a manager like ETH wants in his captain.

Erik needs to find a way out of this hole he dug for himself, before the heat is really turned up towards the end of the season. Perhaps Erik has been finding it difficult to get Bruno to conform and therefore making him captain, giving him that responsibility, is his attempt to get Bruno onside?

 

[MackRobinson]

Let's see. I think he'll be difficult to move on if we ever decide to do it.

I don't think so tbh. He's erratic and sloppy at times but he's adept at creating chances and doesn't rely on his athleticism. There are lots of clubs that would trade that risk for the potential reward.

 

[Rightnr]

He's 28. Not really old tbf.

He's not on obscene wages relatively, and maybe you can find a suitor.

Pretty sure he is for anyone outside the PL who would have him (he'd do well going back to Italy).

We protected the value with a new 250k/week wage, remember. Another Murtough masterclass.

 

[Lemoor]

Ten Hag can try all the magic he needs but until he disposes Bruno and we revert back to 433 we will never win big titles, as we can't win big away matches.

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City won 2 of their away games against top 11 in premier league after 25 games(fecking hell, this is such a ridiculous attempt at statfishing). We can only hope that one day we'll be able to achieve this glory too.

 

[mark clatternburg]

Fernandez is a disgrace.

 

[Red in STL]

Fernandez is a disgrace.

I assume you're referring to Bruno, if you're going to slag someone off at least spell their name right

 

[skc_18]

Yup, letting 7 goals is Bruno's fault. He has his flaws but not everything is his mistake

 

[VivaObertan]

He's been consistently terrible for us in big games.

I doubt people could name 3 games off the top of their head where he thrived in a big game.

I can name 3 this calendar year

 

[NFM]

I also think ETH has slipped up with this appointment, even assuming its only temporary/interim you generally expect the captain to be 'the managers man on the pitch'. I don't think anyone doubts Bruno's commitment, but his fragile temperament and flashes of 'losing it' are not something I suspect a manager like ETH wants in his captain.

Erik needs to find a way out of this hole he dug for himself, before the heat is really turned up towards the end of the season. Perhaps Erik has been finding it difficult to get Bruno to conform and therefore making him captain, giving him that responsibility, is his attempt to get Bruno onside?

There is only Casemiro, and he has probably said , correctly, to ETH that it shouldn't happen in his first season and he feels his English isn't good enough ( albeit Portugese and Spanish cover most of the team). Varane is injury prone, a GK cannot communicate enough.
So ETH has taken the pragmatic approach an tried to turn it into a positive by stressing 'we are all in this together', no scapegoats. Under the circumstances with no obvious alternative, he's probably right.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

City won 2 of their away games against top 11 in premier league after 25 games(fecking hell, this is such a ridiculous attempt at statfishing). We can only hope that one day we'll be able to achieve this glory too.

The thing is City is on a downward trend as we have been told by everyone.

City/Pep have enough on the bank to say once upon a time they were better but now they are not that good.

Also nowhere has city Shipped 17 goals in 3 games away from home

United have no such pedigree in the bank, and have already shipped over 17 goals in 3 games.

Losing away games is not the issue but how you lose them is the main pointer.

Evidently, they are second + those away stats as you say it, show they are not that good.

Meaning when they get good as Pep has done over time, they will reach another top level.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

If Barcelona were daft enough to make a big bid in the summer I'd consider selling him. Once they sort their finances out with more levers that is.

I’d snap their hand off for a straight swap for De Jong right now.

 

[Just Hope]

He is an essential part of this team. He scores goals, assists, creates chances and his work rate is great.
This thread is weird. Just because he has bad game then and there, he is the problem? Rubbish

Thank you, you summarized my perspective perfectly.

 

[TheReligion]

You bunch of wallys.

Correction. You bunch of ungrateful wallys.