No
We're a dark horse in next season's EL
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Because you'd see a white horse coming a mile off, whereas a dark one is inconspicuous.
They won't see us coming next year.
Which can be said about almost every team in the competition. We don’t have Sancho, the last time we got a central defender we paid 80M for someone worth half, it’s not easy. Other teams have much better squads, match-winners, leaders, experience and not least, great managers. We are extremely far away from winning the CL, but we are in it, which is the first important thing. We are dark horses to win the CL just like Southampton can win the FA Cup next year sort of thing. It’s a cup, so it can happen.
We are rank outsiders in my view.
Getting to the quarters would be OK.
Of course its a cup competition and we have a chance but it's a slim chance.
Getting to the quarters would be OK.
Of course its a cup competition and we have a chance but it's a slim chance.
You’re not so bright by the look of things.
We can make semi finals with this team considering we get lucky with injuries. Our whole season was derailed because of injuries.
I don't think we'd be able to cope with the best teams in the competition with only one DM.
Worse teams have made it to the final and won the thing - Porto in 2004, Liverpool the year after. Heck Chelsea's 2012 winning team had Ryan feckin Bertrand starting in midfield for them.
The post covid and pre covid teams are completely different. The pre covid one could do some damage to the big sides by parking the bus and hitting on the break but couldn't break down packed defenses. The post covid one is the opposite. It all goes down to which teams we face. Any big team that presses the post covid team will beat us. Unless we play counter attack like earlier in the season which means dropping Pogba or Fernandes + buying another defensive midfielder. Depends how brave Ole is. If we play really well and attacking then get to semis and face Barca then what will he do. If he plays Pogba + Fernandes we are done.
Need a better midfield, and a far better defense. We need players in midfield who are capable of holding onto the ball when they are pressed. our attack is fine as it is, maybe even better with Sancho hopefully to come in.
We need to win the EL to go into the top pot for seeding.
Otherwise we could easily have a group stage exit.
Otherwise we could easily have a group stage exit.
I thought we were a football club, not a horse.
Better wait till we see whom we will get in the market first. Let's not fly away with our expectations and contain it a little bit.
Where I agree with OP is that the very top teams will certainly want to avoid us from last 16 onwards.
We are like Ajax from 2 years ago.
We are like Ajax from 2 years ago.
Poch made it to the final, Ole can at least try and bring back United to the competition for good... but we can also be CL's horseshit if we won't fix our injury record.
Improvement from our remaining ones, good summer window where CEO believes in his own manager he appointed and good luck.
Improvement from our remaining ones, good summer window where CEO believes in his own manager he appointed and good luck.
Last edited:
it's a very good point.
What last 16 team isn't a dark horse to win the CL? Chelsea in 2012 showed that no team is bad enough to not have a great run of games.
Also, league performance doesn't 100% correlate to performance in the CL. It takes a different skillset (correlating CL performance to being great at counter attacking is bunkum, just ask Mourinho), along with an acceptance that the variance in a 2 tie matchup with the element of away goals mutes the impact your quality has on your chances of winning. All the great managers will tell you this.
We have a chance of winning the CL, just by being good enough to qualify from the group. It's not zero. But until proven otherwise, we're just a tough out for the elite teams in Europe. Teams wouldn't like to meet us. They would hate to see Liverpool. There's a difference. Ole has to close/eliminate that gap through a combination of player acquisitions, and an ability to win tactical matches both by capitalizing on mistakes of the opposition through the counter, AND seizing the initiative when needed and taking the game to the other team when they cede ground.
Also, league performance doesn't 100% correlate to performance in the CL. It takes a different skillset (correlating CL performance to being great at counter attacking is bunkum, just ask Mourinho), along with an acceptance that the variance in a 2 tie matchup with the element of away goals mutes the impact your quality has on your chances of winning. All the great managers will tell you this.
We have a chance of winning the CL, just by being good enough to qualify from the group. It's not zero. But until proven otherwise, we're just a tough out for the elite teams in Europe. Teams wouldn't like to meet us. They would hate to see Liverpool. There's a difference. Ole has to close/eliminate that gap through a combination of player acquisitions, and an ability to win tactical matches both by capitalizing on mistakes of the opposition through the counter, AND seizing the initiative when needed and taking the game to the other team when they cede ground.
Not with the Matic-Pogba-Bruno midfield. Needs a new DM for actually competing at that level.
Sure we are.....
As long as it's not a Derby game
I can see it, I get a lot of cup team vibes off our team right now. Good in big games, hard to break down, fast and dangerous on the counter, multiple match winning players etc. We're not of the level of teams like Madrid, Bayern, Liverpool, Juventus yet but we're a tough match for any team on our day.
IMO we're more likely to pinch the CL than win the league next season.
IMO we're more likely to pinch the CL than win the league next season.
A bit of luck with injuries and I think we can reach the latter stages of the competition. Should we manage to sign a DM in addition to Sancho, I'd rate our chances very high assuming of course we don't get to face any of the big guns in Ro16 or QF
This dark horse is likely to run in the wrong direction. We aren't strong enough yet to put in a real challenge. Miles off Liverpool and City, not to mention other European teams
A quarter final finish will be amazing. That’s on the proviso that we get Sancho and a decent CB.
We are a red horse.
All horses matter!
Can't see us being anywhere near favourites.
I think if I was Barcelona I'd be worried about the front 5 on the counter attack (especially with Sancho) but I wouldn't be worried about a Maguire, Lindelof and DDG defensive spine - not much pace and they will give you something soft over the course of two legs. Our success in Europe around 2008 was really based on our defence being completely rock solid.
I think if I was Barcelona I'd be worried about the front 5 on the counter attack (especially with Sancho) but I wouldn't be worried about a Maguire, Lindelof and DDG defensive spine - not much pace and they will give you something soft over the course of two legs. Our success in Europe around 2008 was really based on our defence being completely rock solid.
I don't think Ole (and the squad) has the experience nor the tactical knowledge. Quarterfinal at best.
I'm surprised by the number of negative comments. I don't think this is controversial at all.
We have an attack that is only getting better and can already rival anyone's. And a defence that's one of the best in the Premier League.
Post-Bruno, we've been the best side in England. That alone makes us one of the strongest teams in Europe.
We have an attack that is only getting better and can already rival anyone's. And a defence that's one of the best in the Premier League.
Post-Bruno, we've been the best side in England. That alone makes us one of the strongest teams in Europe.
I tend to agree with the poster who pointed out that our pre-covid and post-covid teams are different. The pre-covid team was better suited to defend for its life and cause an upset, but was weaker and would probably struggle through most matches. The post-covid team was much more inclined to try and dominate the game, but hasn't yet demonstrated the ability to do so against better teams and is more of a flat-track bully at the moment. Let's see how we do in the rest of the EL first. Talk of us being a dark horse in the CL is very optimistic.
Literally all of them are missing the 'dark horse' part.
If this was a few years back, I'd think this thread a huge wum but the CL is definitely more 'winnable' now. Barca are nowhere near what they were, Real & Juve as well. The one outlier is Bayern who are still a phenomenal outfit but otherwise there's a lot of great teams (Athletico, PSG, Real, Barca, Juve) but no one you'd hugely fear being drawn against.
Add in the fact that Ole's tactics against better teams have been good and the team does seem to lift itself for games like City and Liverpool, we are definitely not amongst the favourites but the gap between the teams is much smaller now.
Add in the fact that Ole's tactics against better teams have been good and the team does seem to lift itself for games like City and Liverpool, we are definitely not amongst the favourites but the gap between the teams is much smaller now.
Dark horse is about right. There's about 3 or 4 teams we'd really struggle with but the hope is the draw would be kind on us and they would knock each other out or be knocked out by teams that are better suited to beating them, and likewise we are better suited at beating their conquerors.
Sorry been away for a few days. Alot of people here underrate you guys. You are lacking consistency and nothing more, the last 20 games have even went a long way to dispel that. You are no pushover for anyone in Europe anymore imho.. I wouldn't make you faves vs the top sides but you also wouldn't be massive underdogs. Slight underdogs is where I'd put you vs Bayern etc..
I guess in some fashion we are, although I’ll reserve further judgment until transfers are done.
Real and Barcelona‘s metaphorical stars are fading. Real now face the Utd struggle of finding a worthy Ronaldo replacement and their great team is aging and god help the replacements who replace their great players because it’ll be enormous pressure. Messi while still good is fading for Barcelona, with their bad transfer dealings and their academy drying up.
Bayern look good, PSG will keep throwing money until they get it right, Juve do their weird shady looking deals to get good players in and shift players out... then after that it’s the English clubs. Liverpool and City are the obvious standouts and they have the undisputed two best managers in the world with them.
Real and Barcelona‘s metaphorical stars are fading. Real now face the Utd struggle of finding a worthy Ronaldo replacement and their great team is aging and god help the replacements who replace their great players because it’ll be enormous pressure. Messi while still good is fading for Barcelona, with their bad transfer dealings and their academy drying up.
Bayern look good, PSG will keep throwing money until they get it right, Juve do their weird shady looking deals to get good players in and shift players out... then after that it’s the English clubs. Liverpool and City are the obvious standouts and they have the undisputed two best managers in the world with them.
I imagine we'll be 6th to 8th in the bookies odds for next season, which means we have a punchers chance at least. Its a cup. You need to win the group and then hope for a kind draw or 2, same as anyone. Can we go toe to toe with the favourites next season? Probably just short of that, but we will strengthen this summer so who knows
I think in knock out tournaments like the UCL, so much is dependent upon our draw. I think every team needs a good draw and a little luck. Our first eleven can compete with anyone but like I have been reading above, squad depth is an issue. I would love for us to win this Europa League and get the momentum and confidence that winning trophies brings into a side and see where it carries us.
Porto 2004 was UEFA winner the previous years. They have the core players which turned out very good (Maniche, Costa, Deco, Carvalho, Paulo Fereira) whom were the back bone of Portugal NT the next 2-4 years. Portugal did very well in both Euro, and World Cup. England golden generation 2 times eliminated by them, so they're not exactly bad players, given many players from England golden generation team could have walk into our team: Beckham, Scholes, Hargreaves, Carrick, Terry, Campbell, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Ashley Cole... I am not saying the Portuguese players in Porto side were better, but as a group, they at that time developed an understanding, and worked well together as a team, which England couldn't at that moment. Individual is one thing, team is another thing. England Golden generation taught us that. Does our group has such bond, that may elevate their performance when circumstance requires? Time will tell. I wouldn't jump the bandwagon to rate Porto 2004 as worse team.
Benitez was very successful coach back in the day. Won La Liga 2 times, and regarded as a cup specialist. Evidently in his previous record at Valencia. Liverpool in those years was absolute nuisance in cup competition. Made another CL final, and semi final beside their fluke one. That Liverpool team in 2005 might not be a powerhouse, but the team as is were a tough nut to break in head to head game, a typical game raising bunch. Adding a coach with that pedigree on top, and it turned around quickly enough. Do we have the same belief in Ole's experience as a coach? Is his cup run so far convincing enough, that we can say our team can rise to the occasion as good as that Benitez Liverpool?
Chelsea 2012 was weak compare to the high standard that of Barcelona, Real Madrid, and on the rise Bayern Munich at the time. However, that team was one good coach away from being serious contender. Look how quickly they bounced back between bad years. They even won FA cup. Benitez won Europa the next year too. The trophy haul along the way would make stable well run club like Wenger Arsenal at the time, and Pochettino Tottenham envy. That Chelsea didn't need long rebuilding phase to win trophy (with luck involved), it testifies for the strength of team and squad. Bertrand at the time was a prospect. You're talking with hindsight. Many of our players in this team may end up the same way down the road. Here we have people talking about Laird in hope he may challenge Wan Bissaka in near future. Not very different to Chelsea fan back then was thinking about Bertrand would replace Ashley Cole once day. Why not talking about the like of Drogba, a big game player who we currently don't have anyone that can compare to? Lampard, Terry, Ashley Cole, Cech (still holding out better at the time) for the experience and leadership. David Luiz with hindsight is a train wreck of a CB, but at that point in time, he was a young prospect with great ball playing ability and physical attribute. Maguire ain't exactly more convincing than that David Luiz, let alone compare to Terry. Gary Cahill & Ivanović was no worse than the like of Lindelof, Jones, Rojo, Bailly. They had the luxury of loaning out Courtois, De Bruyne, Lukaku, while we can't wait to push our promise players to the rescue of the first team.
Given that the standard nowadays is lower, we may or may not have our chance as dark horse. However, it's quite early and arrogant to downplay other teams and overestimate this team, when the other teams had feat to prove while we are but winning feck all. Better keep a low profile, but raring to punch above our weight rather being all hopeful and getting embarassed.
Tactical sophistication can make good players look brilliant and brilliant players look mediocre. I think that's the area where we will get found out.