Yes definitely, even Poc would do so. All you need is coaching, according to some here.
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We're actually quite good
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
- Start date
He’s doing pretty well this season, he’s changing my mind that’s for sure and it looks like he’s going in the right direction.
We were better than last season before Bruno arrived, yes he’s had a big impact but Oles other signings have had an impact too.
If we get our RW signing right then ... who knows where we’ll go?
The table does not lie. We are not scoring enough yet, Liverpool has 70 Goal Scored 21 Scored Against, Manchester City has 77 Goals Scored 31 Goals Scored against.
In 2012-2013 season (SAF last season) we had scored 86 goals and 43 with scored against us. In a nutshell we need to score and create more goals. Investments in the final third is absolute essential next season and then we take further
In 2012-2013 season (SAF last season) we had scored 86 goals and 43 with scored against us. In a nutshell we need to score and create more goals. Investments in the final third is absolute essential next season and then we take further
Poch got sacked when he just won the transfer battle of Ndombele. Poch is the manager who turn an underrated player to be a decent one, He can't makes a poor player to be good. I admire his man management and squad rotation skills but He has no ability to turn a poor talent squad into a winning team.
On paper, Mourinho is a better coach with his players now while Ole did better with Mourinho's squad, Poch is really overrated here.
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Damn straight!I think it's worth reviving this thread
This time it might be true
Obviously there's a fair bit to go and we are dependent on Leicester continuing their poor form but I'm more and more confident that we'll make top 4 this year.
I'd agree about that both Ole could do with winning a trophy and it would be fantastic for the team to win either Cup but if we make top 4 I think that a great achievement, given where we were before Christmas and the injuries we've had.
You're right though, there are a lot of people that need a lot of convincing. To get everyone back onside he'll need top 4, a cup along with a title challenge but even then I still think there's a few who'll be banging on about Poch or Mourinho
grey text?
Yes, to make it more invisible since normally I can read white text without the quote. Unfortunately I chose the same colour with the quote background colour
Does anyone have the clean sheet stats now ...?
11 in 14 or something
We need to improve our goals scored by 30 percent and reduce our goals conceded by 30 percent also.
Our fit squad for the first half of the season was scary. If we can now add sancho and get in a world class centre back I believe we will do the above and challenge.
Our fit squad for the first half of the season was scary. If we can now add sancho and get in a world class centre back I believe we will do the above and challenge.
United have been very good all season when the right players were playing. Solskjaer's tactics have been fine but they went into the season completely undercooked squad-wise. Should have got Bruno in the summer. Tactics only count for so much when the players are deficient.
With Pogba, Rashford and Martial playing at the start of the season, they were unlucky against both Palace and Wolves with penalty misses that would have changed the game and probably led to 4 more points. But they played well in the first 3 games of the season. Then they hit a rough patch when a few injuries came in and replacements/squad players just weren't good enough.
Draw against Southampton - Martial is out, Pereira and Mata in attack
Lose against West Ham - Martial and Pogba out, Mata and Pereira in attack
Lose against Newcastle - Wan-Bissaka, Martial and Pogba out, Mata and Pereira in attack
Draw against Villa at home - Pereira, Fred, Mata midfield (lightweight, weak to counters)
I could also have included Daniel James in those. A lot of United's worst form this season was James, Pereira and Mata behind lone striker Rashford. No wonder we were toothless in hindsight. Compare that now to Martial, Rashford and Greenwood with Pogba and Fernandes assisting. Different animal offensively.
I know a lot of teams can go coulda, woulda, shoulda, but United easily could be 10 points better with Bruno taking penalties at the start of the season and being in place of Pereira, Lingard or Mata in several league games.
With Pogba, Rashford and Martial playing at the start of the season, they were unlucky against both Palace and Wolves with penalty misses that would have changed the game and probably led to 4 more points. But they played well in the first 3 games of the season. Then they hit a rough patch when a few injuries came in and replacements/squad players just weren't good enough.
Draw against Southampton - Martial is out, Pereira and Mata in attack
Lose against West Ham - Martial and Pogba out, Mata and Pereira in attack
Lose against Newcastle - Wan-Bissaka, Martial and Pogba out, Mata and Pereira in attack
Draw against Villa at home - Pereira, Fred, Mata midfield (lightweight, weak to counters)
I could also have included Daniel James in those. A lot of United's worst form this season was James, Pereira and Mata behind lone striker Rashford. No wonder we were toothless in hindsight. Compare that now to Martial, Rashford and Greenwood with Pogba and Fernandes assisting. Different animal offensively.
I know a lot of teams can go coulda, woulda, shoulda, but United easily could be 10 points better with Bruno taking penalties at the start of the season and being in place of Pereira, Lingard or Mata in several league games.
We are not scoring enough goals now? Or was that before the marked improvement of the team? Why do folks analyse as though time is not a concept?
Yes, football is played in seasonal blocks but over the course of this season, teams can progress and evolve. The team that started the season is very different to the team we're watching now.
The table doesn't lie but nor does it show you current form. If we'd played for a full season the way we've played over the past 6 or 7 league games, we'd be on course for over 70. And that includes games against City, Chelsea and Spurs.
Post-Bruno, we're much more potent than the table suggests.
Agree with this, we need someone to come in who can contribute 20 to 30 goals and assists so that we get close to that 80 goal mark in the League. I think getting Sancho, giving a prominent role to Greeenwood and getting a top class CB will be adequate for a third place finish next season.
We are but it's one step at a time. People think we're over reacting but we have an idea about our best team. We've seen improvements in players. Despite De Geas form, defensively we're not in bad shape. We've had some good results against teams who are challenging. We've developed threats from all areas of the pitch, though we still suck at corners in general. We've a relatively young squad. Fernandes and Greenwood have been a big bonus for us and while we might have got Bruno for cheaper then in the summer - where would we have been if we had him from the start? But we're on a 15 game unbeaten run and we're still doing well despite players trying to find their way back into form. I think when we lose again....this group is capable of bouncing back. They seem mentally to be more confident in themselves and each other but this is the next stage of evolution
You have to know who you are better then. People say, this games difficult...this games difficult....we're Man United. And we see when we do the right things and pay teams respect and play our game....we can create chances when teams sit back. I think at times we need to quicken the play but we're 2/3 players short in terms of the squad. Ole is no mug. Ole knows our best 11 but it's a squad game so we're getting there. Sheffield United, Brighton..etc would have been hard for any United team over the last 4/5 years......it was our control of the game. As much as they wanted to attack, we didn't let them and I think that's great. When you have Rashford on one side and Greenwood another (and both don't mind tracking back..), I think teams are not as cocky as they used to be. So it boads well. Because if they play through the center, we can be fairly compact there
You have to know who you are better then. People say, this games difficult...this games difficult....we're Man United. And we see when we do the right things and pay teams respect and play our game....we can create chances when teams sit back. I think at times we need to quicken the play but we're 2/3 players short in terms of the squad. Ole is no mug. Ole knows our best 11 but it's a squad game so we're getting there. Sheffield United, Brighton..etc would have been hard for any United team over the last 4/5 years......it was our control of the game. As much as they wanted to attack, we didn't let them and I think that's great. When you have Rashford on one side and Greenwood another (and both don't mind tracking back..), I think teams are not as cocky as they used to be. So it boads well. Because if they play through the center, we can be fairly compact there
I'd say the team as it is should be adquate for third place next season barring injuries. The defensive record is third in the PL at the moment with average goals against per game at 0,97. For the last 15 games though, that average is 0,26 goals per game. I would not at all be surprised if United end up second on defensive record this year. There are still some games to play.
Let's be honest, even without a right winger - if we pulled our finger out and signed Fernandes in the summer and had Pogba not been injured, we wouldn't be far from City this season. If and buts I know...
From a Liverpool perspective, we have to remember their full backs put up numbers as good as wingers in terms of assists anyway. AWB improvements and an upgrade on Shaw could add goals for existing players with an enhanced supply chain.
From a Liverpool perspective, we have to remember their full backs put up numbers as good as wingers in terms of assists anyway. AWB improvements and an upgrade on Shaw could add goals for existing players with an enhanced supply chain.
Defensively we are doing well but let's not forget that we can't put out our best 11 for every game, even without injuries, and the statistics show that should we lose any of our front six we suffer a huge drop off in quality so the rebuild isn't complete. I think if we could get a right sided attacker, a DM and a top class CB we will be fine in both respects.
But you can't look at this season as a whole when doing stats like this, you've got to look at the stats with the team we have right now (post Bruno).
Before Bruno, we were on pace for 57 goals scored(1.5 per game), and 46 goals conceded (1,2 per game) over a 38-game season.
In the eight league games since his arrival we've scored 15 goals. This accumulates to 71 goals over a 38 game season (1,86 per game) . We've only conceded 2 (!) goals in the same span (0,25 per game) , which is less than 10 goals conceded over a 38 game season. Keep in mind that we've faced City, Chelsea, Spurs and Wolves in that span as well, all very good teams, and that both Pogba and Rashford have been injured for the majority of the games.
I refuse to believe we're scoring less, or even the same as the past 8 games, next season, with us now comfortably beating the lesser teams 3-0. I bet we're approaching, or even surpassing 80 goals in the league, with or without Sancho/anyone else (barring injuries of course), and that we'll concede less than 25 goals. Put me down for a tenner on that, and quote me on this after next season.
You can really the see the play developing between the players. Lots of little link ups and one twos. We also seem to have players offering options and positive ones at that.
I think Shaw, Matic and Mctominay are still slightly conservative in that they don't trust themselves to make a pass in a REALLY tight space and for the receiving player to get out of the situation. So many times the front players scream for a pass because they have a trick in mind or a next pass and they dont seem to feed that player. It will come though.
It's really exciting to watch the team develop, they have arguably all improved and are working hard together and pushing each other. If they continue like that the rewards will come.
I think Shaw, Matic and Mctominay are still slightly conservative in that they don't trust themselves to make a pass in a REALLY tight space and for the receiving player to get out of the situation. So many times the front players scream for a pass because they have a trick in mind or a next pass and they dont seem to feed that player. It will come though.
It's really exciting to watch the team develop, they have arguably all improved and are working hard together and pushing each other. If they continue like that the rewards will come.
What is really promising for me is that last night we came up against a team that stuck 11 men behind the ball and effectively parked the bus. Something we've struggled with for years.
And yet last night we treated it like it was nothing, and we were 2-0 up inside half an hour. It's still too early to say for definite but it feels like we've worked out how to beat the low block, having incredible creative players in Bruno and Pogba both playing makes a huge difference.
Plus as an added bonus, after Brighton came out strong in the 2nd half and pushed men forward we proved we still have that great counter attacking ability for the 3rd goal. So now teams will be thinking we can't park the bus against them because they can get round it and we can't push forward against them because they'll counter attack us to death.
It's very exciting.
And yet last night we treated it like it was nothing, and we were 2-0 up inside half an hour. It's still too early to say for definite but it feels like we've worked out how to beat the low block, having incredible creative players in Bruno and Pogba both playing makes a huge difference.
Plus as an added bonus, after Brighton came out strong in the 2nd half and pushed men forward we proved we still have that great counter attacking ability for the 3rd goal. So now teams will be thinking we can't park the bus against them because they can get round it and we can't push forward against them because they'll counter attack us to death.
It's very exciting.
I agree with you that we need to score more, consistently and this included regularly putting at least 2-3 past lower table teams. City destroy lower table teams.
Interestingly, if one takes games 1-19 and normalises the scoring rate it would be 60 over a full season; Doing the same for games 20-33, the full season equivalent would be 61 - not an olympian leap. The thing that has changes is goals against - 1-19 provides a full season equivalent of 46, whilst 20-33 halves that to 23.
Post Bruno (and with the usual caveats about very small sample), it normallises to 71/10 in a full season (and that may rise depending on goals from the last 5 games) - that's highly competitive.
So, in summary, games 1-19 were mediocre, games 20-33 are better and post Bruno we're top 2 competitive - but the question is, can we sustain that over a full season (and no, I don't believe that we could concede only 10 goals over 38 games).
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Yeh that’s a very good point and it’s something that all the great Utd sides have had. I think it’s partly the reason why there is confusion when people say Fergies teams were excellent counter attacking teams. For many they think that means we couldn’t dominate but the reality is we could counter like the best of them but also would bombard our opposition when in need to a goal. I see many similarities with what Ole is doing which I why I find it so strange that so many fans have been able to see that and get behind him.
When I think of the glory days I think of Rio and Vidic on the halfway line passing it between themselves waiting to start off another round of attacking. We used have teams pinned back and then we would open them.
The rise of stats in football isn't always healthy.
e.g. accuracy of passes - Bruno is lower than average but that's because he takes the risks needed to split defences open.
Over focus on accurate passes and retention and it tends to result in tumescent football.
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Think the starting 11 is great. Can probably compete (and beat) most teams in the league. It can be refined in a few positions to make it even better.
And then our subs need some bolstering to allow for rotation (as we saw against Norwich that was a struggle and we ended up having to rely on our best players anyway).
And then our subs need some bolstering to allow for rotation (as we saw against Norwich that was a struggle and we ended up having to rely on our best players anyway).
I know people hate how good Liverpool and City are but this is the benefit of having them in our league. If they dropped a level then this squad on would be title contenders imo. The fact we basically have to match the best in Europe, instead of having them hidden away in Spain while we lie to ourselves, mean we have to become the best side in world football to win a title.
Its a ridiculous standard. Look at how Madrid fans can lie to themselves because they're overtaking a poor Barca side. Put Liverpool in that league and they would be talking clearout in the sumner.
Its a ridiculous standard. Look at how Madrid fans can lie to themselves because they're overtaking a poor Barca side. Put Liverpool in that league and they would be talking clearout in the sumner.
Are Smalling and Sanchez back in Carrington today?
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What???
No they're finishing the season then not playing the EL
That wasnt my point. Managers get the best out of their players. Pep and klopp would have got more out of our team this season than OGS has.
Didnt we get like 2 wins in 10 or 12 games at the end of last season?And here I was, thinking Pep and Klopp were winning in spite of their top players' individual brilliance...
I don't care that he played for United. Klopp never played for Liverpool but his players trust him and Daglish played for Liverpool but that didnt work.
I agree fans and pundits are less likely to criticise him because hes an ex player but I dont see how that's an argument in his favour.
Imo, the only thing he's missing is a proven track record of success which is the most important thing in a manager.
Also, I'm fine with us going through a different manager every year if it works. If the most important thing is longevity, we'd still have Moyes.
Man Utd 5:2 Bournemouth (4 July 2020)
First time since 2010-2011, 2 players have scored 20 or more goals. And Greenwood might still reach it (which would be first time in since I watch football).
We are really good. We just need that bit of edge off the bench/in rotation. We still clearly have a little hole at centre back too. Lindelof can be exploited and in the premier league it could cost us more goals than we would normally concede, especially since we are expecting and seeing more attacking output from Shaw and AWB.
Hard to say Maguire is any better than Lindelof though based on the last month. In any case we need a top class CB brought in.
We're very close to being title challengers next season if we're not there already. This post might not age well but it feels like we're back.
We’re not doing too badly considering our manager is a shithouse janitor from the arse end of Europe (with a shit CV), are we?
United are great to watch. Scoring for fun and positive vibe all around the club.
Thank you Ole for giving us this, after years of shit football and negativity (on and off the pitch) under Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho it is a pleasure to watch United again.
Thank you Ole for giving us this, after years of shit football and negativity (on and off the pitch) under Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho it is a pleasure to watch United again.
Hey man!
just imagine if we had a quality manager like Jose in charge.
