We're comfortably the third best team in the league

Striker10

"Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
18,564
Ole has rebuilt the psychology and the identity so well. We didn't have that many shots yesterday, but you always felt we could create chances. But let's see how we end the season. We came back well against Spurs. That was very good. We just need to get out of any mentality that a team sitting back can subdue us and hurt us on the break. We've performed in most of the big games. We just need to develop that physical element but the mental aspect is so big. When you bring quality in, sometimes people fight harder to keep their place or they're more motivated because they believe in where we go. This run of games is really good for these players. They can build on this. And who knows. Our history, will make teams think and worry. Because we're playing like a Sir Alex team. We weren't as clinical as we could be yesterday but we didn't create that much either really. If we peppered their goal the potential is there now.

We're seeing more definition. And though our defence isn't for me at it's peak - we're restricting chances so conceding less because teams know we can keep the ball. Let's not go overboard ....but at the same time there's no denying our trajectory. Now Ole has to manage that but players are responding and who knows, we might have a trophy to show for it come the end of the season; with any luck.
 

Phil

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Messages
10,279
This is a pretty redundant argument isn't it?

We might have the third best team in the league in our minds, we might have a great record against the top sides, we might be top of the league if only 2020 results counted (I have no idea).

League ranking at the end of the season is the only thing that really matters so until we can put it all together in a season, who cares? Next year rivals will have strengthened too, so everything resets and who knows where it leaves us.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
2,761
We are dangerously close to "next year will be our year" levels of giddiness that we mercilessly slagged off Liverpool fans over.
Except Liverpool had crap teams for most of those times. It’s a little different when even many neutrals are beginning to recognise our talent.
 

Striker10

"Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
18,564
We are dangerously close to "next year will be our year" levels of giddiness that we mercilessly slagged off Liverpool fans over.
The proof is in the pudding but I think down the years they had sprinklings of a good team but not enough quality to be consistent. If we keep Pogba and buy well, then next season could be a stepping stone to a challenge. We just don't know and sure it's better to take it game by game but if we lose next game, you can imagine the reaction. I think most people though recognise we're moving in the right direction. We've done well in most of the big games and if we can punish teams then it's there for us to compete.

We are not there yet. We don't know the evolution of young players or who could come through but we're pretty good. We just need luck with injuries and maybe one or two others stepping up
 

Mihai

Full Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
3,192
It is silly to reduce an argument of being comfortably the third best team in the league (higher than teams that are above you in the league) due to you beating them three times.

By that same metric you're better than City too then since you've beaten them 3 times, 2 of those at the Etihad, scoring 5 in the process and conceding one. If you think that then good on you but you're daft.
Not really the same metric, since City are 14 points ahead with a goal difference of 45 compared to 17. Comparing 2 teams' head to head when they are close to each other in the league is one thing. Applying the same logic to teams that have way better position in the league is another. I don't think it's such a hard concept to grasp, is it?
 

Web of Bissaka

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
5,913
Location
Losing to Comeback Winning!
Are we doing this to feel better.. ?

We're the fifth best this season so far, tied with Wolves, based on points. Just accept it.

Anyway, this year 2020, we're the best team so far, based on form.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
74,668
Location
india
I don't know about comfortably, and we have to put the numbers on the board to prove our claim, but on paper I believe we are better than and Leicester (by a mile with them).
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
16,798
Location
Scotland
Supports
Everton
Not really the same metric, since City are 14 points ahead with a goal difference of 45 compared to 17. Comparing 2 teams' head to head when they are close to each other in the league is one thing. Applying the same logic to teams that have way better position in the league is another. I don't think it's such a hard concept to grasp, is it?
My point was that reducing arguments to one stand alone factor is stupid, which you have shown too by the City example I gave, especially when the argument is that you're 'comfortably' the third best team in the league.

I don't necessarily believe you or Chelsea are the 3rd best team and think that it can be argued either way or argued in favour of a team like Wolves.
 

Striker10

"Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
18,564
Are we doing this to feel better.. ?

We're the fifth best this season so far, tied with Wolves, based on points. Just accept it.

Anyway, this year 2020, we're the best team so far, based on form.
People are talking about next season not this one....this season we're 5th and I don't think anyone is trying to say anything else. It's good you recognise the improvement in form in terms of results and performance because that is what people are looking at regarding next season.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
37,887
Location
Canada
Wouldn't say comfortably, though with Pogba and Bruno together I definitely think we are, as now we'll have more consistency against smaller sides. Chelsea is improving all the time and will be better in big games (plus their signings being big) so I think we'll be at the same level next season. Leicester and Wolves are very impressive but I think they'll be the step below.

Interestingly if you go on 538soccer and look at their global rankings and team ratings (big stats site), we're 3rd in the prem and 7th in the world, behind City, Bayern, Liverpool, Barca, Madrid and PSG. Really shot up the rankings without performances since Bruno arrived, and now with Pogba.
 

Paul_Scholes18

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
6,616
We are not even confortably better than Spurs and maybe Arsenal.
Confortable is the lead that Pool got at the top.
 

Reds fever

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
4
What about Spurs?
They have great attackers with the likes of Kane, Son, Moura and Bergwin which is better than ours and their midfielders are very underated, with the likes of Sissoko, Ndombele, Lo celso and Ali they can produce worldclass performance given time to gel.

We have comfotably the better defence but with Mourinho tactics they don't need great defenders to grab clean sheet, remeber in 2nd year of Mourinho we conceded the fewest goals.
 

Betson

Full Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Messages
912
If we were comfortable the 3rd best team then we would be comfortable third in the table.

You can't just pick and choose the parts of the season you want.

You have to be judged over the full season , there is still some of this season to be played out. Any judgement should be held until we see how we finish out the season.
 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
2,375
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
Given the money we are spending sweating over top 4 is still pretty terrible. We have DDG pogba and Sanchez on the highest wages in the league in their position. Yes it does looks like the oil tanker is slowly turning around and setting a more positive and sustainable course but currently there’s nothing comfortable about it. Chelsea are right there with us (having not been able to sign anyone) and are recruiting aggressively and If we don’t keep up the good work it’ll be the same story next year.
 

Mihai

Full Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
3,192
My point was that reducing arguments to one stand alone factor is stupid, which you have shown too by the City example I gave, especially when the argument is that you're 'comfortably' the third best team in the league.

I don't necessarily believe you or Chelsea are the 3rd best team and think that it can be argued either way or argued in favour of a team like Wolves.
But it's not one stand alone factor. No one is comparing 2 random teams. We compare 2 teams that have similar points after 30 games and similar gd. That is at least 3 factors (points, gd and head-to-head stats).
 

Mogget

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
4,655
Supports
Arsenal
It's a pretty shitty time to be an Arsenal fan but the one silver lining is watching United fans slowly turn into Liverpool fans. Next year is your year.
 

Dr. McBeasty

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
21
We're comfortably top 5. I'd say at this moment in time we're #3, with our current position in the table largely a result of only having our 2 world class midfielders for a very small portion of the season. Chelsea have already seemingly bought well and look to be positioned well heading into next season, so we definitely have our work cut out for us going forward, but I think we're absolutely headed in the right direction.
 

Giggsy13

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
82
Location
Toronto
It's a pretty shitty time to be an Arsenal fan but the one silver lining is watching United fans slowly turn into Liverpool fans. Next year is your year.
Arsenal supporters aren’t really in a position to talk trash to any fanbase. You’re 5 years from being a top 4 contender let alone challenging for a title.
 

Giggsy13

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
82
Location
Toronto
Chelsea have a very good argument and may surpass us if they do more good business this summer and we fail to do anything. I’m shocked that they aren’t prioritizing a move for Koulibaly over Havertz. If they strengthen the back 4 then they could be dangerous.
 
Last edited:

AneRu

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
1,027
If we were comfortable the 3rd best team then we would be comfortable third in the table.

You can't just pick and choose the parts of the season you want.

You have to be judged over the full season , there is still some of this season to be played out. Any judgement should be held until we see how we finish out the season.
This.
 

Harry Harries

Full Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
3,773
It's a pretty shitty time to be an Arsenal fan but the one silver lining is watching United fans slowly turn into Liverpool fans. Next year is your year.
Ah, yes. Arsenal fans! The famously level-headed and rational followers of footy.
 

Nickosaur

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
9,523
I know I'm getting carried away but how fecking sweet would it be if the scousers finally end their 30 year wait for a title, only for united to finally come back into form and snatch the title straight back off them the following season :drool:
 

Zen86

Full Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,374
Location
That's the joke.
It's a pretty shitty time to be an Arsenal fan but the one silver lining is watching United fans slowly turn into Liverpool fans. Next year is your year.
Makes sense considering this place has a very RAWKish feel to it over the last few years.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
30,962
Location
Egypt
Main lineup can be considered 3rd best yes. Too many talented players in it now, and there's a great core for the future.

However squad depth one injury to one of either Bruno or Pogba and we're back where were, with one creative player that closing on him kills the attack, no ?

Squad depth still needs to improve which will come with the few upcoming summers hopefully.
 

Teja

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
523
Location
Boston, MA
It's a pretty shitty time to be an Arsenal fan but the one silver lining is watching United fans slowly turn into Liverpool fans. Next year is your year.
Hah I don't think we've hit that level of delusion yet. Maybe if things stay this way for another 10 years ..

For me, we're comfortably top four material now and trending in the right direction in terms of philosophy, signings etc. after floundering around in the transfer market post Fergie. City and Pool are still better, but I think we'll close the gap on them next season.

Utd vs Chelsea is still pretty close because I really respect Lampard as a coach, but we're probably in for a period where the top five remains relatively static. I don't think Wolves, Leicester, Sheffield will be near the top four next season.
 

Coxy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
2,543
Location
Derby
If we were comfortable the 3rd best team then we would be comfortable third in the table.

You can't just pick and choose the parts of the season you want.

You have to be judged over the full season , there is still some of this season to be played out. Any judgement should be held until we see how we finish out the season.
This. I think some people are getting carried away as usual. We constantly get these threads on here - then when we lose a couple of games again people will be calling for ole’s head again.

it’s too early for threads like this - but there are encouraging signs. Chelsea have made a couple of great signings. Let’s see if we do the same.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
37,887
Location
Canada
Main lineup can be considered 3rd best yes. Too many talented players in it now, and there's a great core for the future.

However squad depth one injury to one of either Bruno or Pogba and we're back where were, with one creative player that closing on him kills the attack, no ?

Squad depth still needs to improve which will come with the few upcoming summers hopefully.
Not really, where we were was having neither Pogba or Bruno and no depth for Martial or Rashford. Bruno came in and our level improved massively. If bruno is injured, we still have Pogba and vice versa. Now also have Ighalo, a more developed Greenwood and James as backups/to rotate the 3rd attacker spot so we are better off there.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
30,962
Location
Egypt
Not really, where we were was having neither Pogba or Bruno and no depth for Martial or Rashford. Bruno came in and our level improved massively. If bruno is injured, we still have Pogba and vice versa. Now also have Ighalo, a more developed Greenwood and James as backups/to rotate the 3rd attacker spot so we are better off there.
I'm not saying squad depth's not better than before but it still needs to improve a little bit to cover for a full season. We have done pretty well to fix the majority of the main lineup which is great though.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
22,696
If we were comfortably the 3rd best we'd be sitting comfortably in 3rd

I know it's cliched but football is a squad game and we've proven our squad can't cope with the injuries it's had and to use another cliche injuries are part of football that you have to deal with

Let's see what next season brings but I'm still unconvinced
 

RedSky

likes to kick 10-year-olds
Scout
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
64,727
Location
Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
We're heading in the right direction and closing the gap but the first team still needs to be improved imo.

Right wing and CB should be a priority alongside cover for Martial.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
1,865
If we were comfortable the 3rd best team then we would be comfortable third in the table.

You can't just pick and choose the parts of the season you want.

You have to be judged over the full season , there is still some of this season to be played out. Any judgement should be held until we see how we finish out the season.
If we were comfortably the 3rd best we'd be sitting comfortably in 3rd

I know it's cliched but football is a squad game and we've proven our squad can't cope with the injuries it's had and to use another cliche injuries are part of football that you have to deal with

Let's see what next season brings but I'm still unconvinced
These./
 

Bondi77

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
845
Seriously? We are miles ahead of wolves and Leicester, yes table says otherwise and I accept that but I'm more than confident the league table will reflect our superiority over next couple of seasons.

As for chelsea, I think we are easily better, look at the head to head this season if you have doubts. We have beaten them twice at Stamford bridge though I accept they are making good moves in transfer market.

The more interesting question i feel is City. This is a crunch window for them. Recent signings haven't settled, Silva gone this summer, huge loss and Sane likely not too far behind. Aguero also om decline and now has serious injury. Kompany still hasn't been replaced and Fernandinho is coming to the end. For all the money Pep has spent, his best players are still the ones that were already there when he arrived. Let's see how far ahead of Chelsea they are tonight!

I think we are closer to them than people realise.

Pool still well ahead but can they manage circa 100 points three seasons in a row?
What are you talking about mate?
You say we are miles ahead of Leicester and Wolves but the table does not reflect that but because we have recent good form against Chelsea we are easily better than them.
The table does not lie and we will see at the end of the season.
We have easily the weaker teams to play in the run home so there is no excuse for us not to get top four but with the inconsistency of some of our big names I still have a sense of us fecking it all up.
 

Falcow

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
407
Location
Dublin
What are you talking about mate?
You say we are miles ahead of Leicester and Wolves but the table does not reflect that but because we have recent good form against Chelsea we are easily better than them.
The table does not lie and we will see at the end of the season.
We have easily the weaker teams to play in the run home so there is no excuse for us not to get top four but with the inconsistency of some of our big names I still have a sense of us fecking it all up.
Well feel free to ignore context all you like (us missing half a team for most of the season, new manager in his first full season with no end of problems to resolve etc) but our record against Chelsea this season is 8 for 1 against, so yeah I would say we are better than them.

Wolves and Leicester as good as us my arse, they wont be within 15 points of us next season, I'd be willing to bet on it.

The days of grossly underachieving for us appear to be coming to an end finally, Wolves and Leicester should enjoy their 15 mins while it lasts.
 

BridgeBanter

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
265
I would agree with this, on talent alone Chelsea don’t even get close to us but we do need to add further strength to our team. Sancho would be a dream signing and I think would take us up another level and we still need to add further players in midfield and in defence but overall it’s looking like the best squad we have had in years.
"Chelsea don't get close us" ??? That's just not true at all. Chelsea and United are the two best teams after City and Liverpool. Admittedly if I was a United fan you can make the claim that they're better than Chelsea, and you did do the double over us this season, however, we're literally above you in the table. Both teams are filled with exciting young players along with a novice EPL manager. As a result, lack of consistency has plagued both teams but there's still a lot to look forward to for both Chelsea and United next season. However, to suggest that there's a huge gap between the two teams right now though it is just biased and completely false.
 

TMDaines

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
5,277
The problem is being the third best team in the league doesn’t mean a whole lot currently. There’s two great teams and then a load of inconsistency.

That said, we are on course to deliver our best xPts since Mourinho’s first season and could possibly pip that even with a string of strong performances. I’m excited to see where we develop, but wouldn’t bet the house on us finishing at least third next season.