We're starting to see the basis of a proper squad

[Flying high]

We've all written off this season now, right? Let's look to the rebuild process and focus on what's needed to complete the job. If they'd all left in the summer, not many would have been missed. But I would say that, when all are fit, we have a decent enough core at a good age to build upon.

We have a core of players now who are, imho, good enough to get us back to the top 4 with the right players around them:
DeGea
Wan-Bissaka
Maguire
Mctominay
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

We have a small group of players who are perfectly good enough to be squad/rotation players next season:
Romero
Shaw
Lindelof
James

We have some that can be retained as decent backup players or sold without really losing anything:
Jones
Rojo
Bailly
Dalot
Fred
Lingard
Pereira

That leaves some older players who have to leave next summer, so shouldn't play unless there's no one else available:
Young
Matic
Mata


So, that's 7 first teamers I'd be content with starting next season. As it stands then we need a LB, CB, CM and RW with another CM and CF to upgrade our cover/competition. That's 6 players needed.

Though of course there's a large group of young players that I haven't mentioned yet. While I understand the calls for Greenwood to start, I haven't personally seen enough yet to think he's going to be first team regular within 2 years. Garner, Gomes and Chong even less. Williams has looked really good but I want to see him get a good run of games. He and Shaw together might be enough to not need a LB.
Tuanzebe looks to me to be closest to PL starter level and, as it stands, I think he will show enough this season, that we can delay a CB signing.

The kids will continue to get chances this season through necessity. It's up to them to prove that we don't need some of those positions to be filled. If Axel and Williams are up to the job, then adding 2 CMs, RW and a CF would make us competitive again, if we can get those signings right. That doesn't seem so far off to me.

Could any of the other kids cement a place? Would bringing in a new manager now simply reset things all over again?

I don't post an awful lot in the united section. It's a busy place with a lot of noise.. and I'm kinda old
But I do read and totally understand everyones frustrations with our current level, there will certainly be ups and downs this year, possibly the worst we've seen since Ferguson left. But let's leave the blame game for other threads and try to find the positive way forward. Whether our future is with Ole, in some ways doesn't matter. I can now see how our squad can be functional, if not yet exceptional, within a year or so and a realistic number of signings. When in recent times, we had far more problems than solutions. Now at least, we have a fairly solid base from which to build.

 

[Judas]

I've not written this season off if we replace Ole soon.

 

[Gazza]

That’s a very positive outlook. Kudos to you. No matter which way you slice it we desperately need an injection of quality into this team and that’s not even factoring Pogba’s inevitable departure. You say we need (best case scenario) 2 CMs, a RW and a striker. That’s not as easy as it looks on paper and especially harder considering our dreadful record in the transfer market. And then we have to address coaching and tactics. So yeah, I guess we are not a million miles off ‘challenging’, whatever that’s worth, but you could say the same about 5-10 other teams in this league too.

Make no mistake, our squad is in a shocking state.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I've not written this season off if we replace Ole soon.

Exactly, I think we all agree we're are simply unable to compete with the two best teams in the league but our squad is good enough to be battling for top 4. We didn't suddenly become a mid table team overnight, we should be not be in a position where we've already lost to Bournemouth, Newcastle, WHum and Palace and drawn with Wolves & So'ton. It's ok to drop points here and there but we're 11 games in and we're on 13 points!

 

[charlenefan]

Strange timing for the thread given the night of UCL football we've just watched

 

[mariachi-19]

I've not written this season off if we replace Ole soon.

feck me, Ole is not currently the problem. The problem is a lack of creative flare players that can break down teams before it hits the forward line when they sit deep. Its the reason we are so much better and more organised against better teams because the game opens up. You cannot turn average players into those types of players and he has the likes of Mata and Lingard to pick from in that role.

If Ole had a skillful number 10 and Pogba wasn't injured, we would look a whole lot better against lesser teams as well.

 

[VP89]

feck me, Ole is not currently the problem. The problem is a lack of creative flare players that can break down teams before it hits the forward line when they sit deep. Its the reason we are so much better and more organised against better teams because the game opens up. You cannot turn average players into those types of players and he has the likes of Mata and Lingard to pick from in that role.

If Ole had a skillful number 10 and Pogba wasn't injured, we would look a whole lot better against lesser teams as well.

Again, there's not one single problem. Stop coming talking as though we only have one problem at the club. There are many, and Ole is one of the major ones.

Getting rid of him is part of the way towards recovery.

 

[Greck]

Realistically any equation about our future needs to exclude Pogba. He likely won't be here that long which sort of take us 3 steps back because getting another player in that talent bracket will be tough. The foundational stars are like 70% of the rebuild. Everyone else is a sparepart by comparison

 

[Flying high]

I've not written this season off if we replace Ole soon.

What would a new manager do differently? Play Matic and Mata?

 

[macheda14]

What would a new manager do differently? Play Matic and Mata?

Have obvious to see patterns of play. When we get in an opponents final 3rd we recycle the ball at a snails pace - that needs to be coached.

 

[Flying high]

Realistically any equation about our future needs to exclude Pogba. He likely won't be here that long which sort of take us 3 steps back because getting another player in that talent bracket will be tough. The foundational stars are like 70% of the rebuild. Everyone else is a sparepart by comparison

We have to work towards using this year to fix the squad to give Pogba reason to stay. A good signing in Jan would help too.

You're right though, losing him would certainly make the job harder.

 

[Sterling Archer]

No we're not. Most of them would be squad members in a 'proper' team

 

[momo83]

I've not written this season off if we replace Ole soon.

If Ole stays they’ll find an excuse to write off next season also, probably “he only signed 6 players but needed 10”

Remember in May it was “give Ole ONE window then judge him”

 

[Josep Dowling]

Exactly, I think we all agree we're are simply unable to compete with the two best teams in the league but our squad is good enough to be battling for top 4. We didn't suddenly become a mid table team overnight, we should be not be in a position where we've already lost to Bournemouth, Newcastle, WHum and Palace and drawn with Wolves & So'ton. It's ok to drop points here and there but we're 11 games in and we're on 13 points!

I think there are a lot of people who think this squad is better than it actually is. I called midtable once the transfer window closed and we hadn’t bought enough players in.

Top players - De Gea, Pogba - one was in poor form the other injured.

Good players - Maguire, AWB.

Good players but inconsistent- Shaw, Lindelof, Martial, Rashford.

Look good because of the form of players around them - James, McTominay.

The rest of the squad isn’t up to scratch. Our midfield is non-existent. We have no goal scoring striker which is why we keep losing, we simply don’t score enough.

No balance in attack without a natural RW for the 5th season in a row.

No balance in midfield even if Pogba was fit, we needed at least another CM. Pereira was never going to make it yet we gave him a chance. The less said about Lingard the better. Matic has already retired, so has Mata.

No balance in defence as both CB lack pace and Shaw is never fit so we are using Young at LB yet again.

Add in an inexperienced manager it’s a recipe for a disaster.

 

[Leftback99]

Agree with the opening post. A benefit of stripping back the squad means the problem areas are more obvious and easier to address (we shouldn't need to wait for sales to clear spaces for new players).

Typically this has turned into an Ole bashing thread though with some of the usual suspects.

 

[TheReligion]

Strange timing for the thread given the night of UCL football we've just watched

I don't get this comment?

 

[ravi2]

I've not written this season off if we replace Ole soon.

 

[tenpoless]

James, Bissaka, De Gea, Maguire. Only them.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It just took one post... just one...

 

[Yakuza_devils]

What would a new manager do differently? Play Matic and Mata?

Since we are losing games week in week out now, at the very least the new manager should play attacking football even though we lose. It will be at least more entertaining to watch. Ole football now is more negative than Moyes, LVG and Jose!

Back to the topic, I agree with you that we have a core team in the making. Next transfer windows a world class no 10 and no 9 are the priority. Followed by RW and proper DM. With this 4 additions and hopefully a change to attacking manager like Marco Rose we can be challenging again.

 

[el3mel]

Pogba isn't going to be here next season and Maguire and AWB still have several flaws to improve.

With Pogba leaving next summer we will need +300m to be any where close to 3rd position in the league. I honestly don't see any core. The squad is pretty much fecked.

It reminds me of the squad LVG left and his "foundations.

 

[Mainoldo]

What would a new manager do differently? Play Matic and Mata?

How about get the players playing. That helps a lot. Shots on target for one; keeping the ball two and learning how to bloody attack.

But what do we expect from a League 1 manager.

 

[2mufc0]

Pipe dream?

 

[arthurka]

This squad lacks creativity and goals. It's just a bit too mehh.

 

[Flying high]

This squad lacks creativity and goals. It's just a bit too mehh.

So 2 new midfielders and 2 new forwards should help that, or do you think we need more?

 

[Leftback99]

So 2 new midfielders and 2 new forwards should help that, or do you think we need more?

It depends if any of Greenwood, Garner and Gomes step up. They don't look ready yet/might never be.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Have obvious to see patterns of play. When we get in an opponents final 3rd we recycle the ball at a snails pace - that needs to be coached.

That's been happening for a lot longer than the time that Ole has been in charge. It happened with LVG and Mourinho as well. One might stop and think that perhaps it's not the manager but the players. The manager can tell them to do all sorts of things. He can't make them do those same things once they step on the pitch. Problem is, we have to many passengers on this team. The only thing I will blame Ole for is insisting on playing a 4-2-3-1 when we don't have a proper #10 to play in the CAM position...

 

[JMack1234]

We're starting to see the beginnings of a plan.

Whether Ole is good enough to successfully carry out this plan is another matter.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Now we are seeing the basis of a team that may get us back to top 4...this is us now, this is how low our bar is set we dont talk about titles anymore but getting a shot to get into top 4.

 

[Rozay]

We've all written off this season now, right? Let's look to the rebuild process and focus on what's needed to complete the job. If they'd all left in the summer, not many would have been missed. But I would say that, when all are fit, we have a decent enough core at a good age to build upon.

We have a core of players now who are, imho, good enough to get us back to the top 4 with the right players around them:
DeGea
Wan-Bissaka
Maguire
Mctominay
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

We have a small group of players who are perfectly good enough to be squad/rotation players next season:
Romero
Shaw
Lindelof
James

We have some that can be retained as decent backup players or sold without really losing anything:
Jones
Rojo
Bailly
Dalot
Fred
Lingard
Pereira

That leaves some older players who have to leave next summer, so shouldn't play unless there's no one else available:
Young
Matic
Mata


So, that's 7 first teamers I'd be content with starting next season. As it stands then we need a LB, CB, CM and RW with another CM and CF to upgrade our cover/competition. That's 6 players needed.

Though of course there's a large group of young players that I haven't mentioned yet. While I understand the calls for Greenwood to start, I haven't personally seen enough yet to think he's going to be first team regular within 2 years. Garner, Gomes and Chong even less. Williams has looked really good but I want to see him get a good run of games. He and Shaw together might be enough to not need a LB.
Tuanzebe looks to me to be closest to PL starter level and, as it stands, I think he will show enough this season, that we can delay a CB signing.

The kids will continue to get chances this season through necessity. It's up to them to prove that we don't need some of those positions to be filled. If Axel and Williams are up to the job, then adding 2 CMs, RW and a CF would make us competitive again, if we can get those signings right. That doesn't seem so far off to me.

Could any of the other kids cement a place? Would bringing in a new manager now simply reset things all over again?

I don't post an awful lot in the united section. It's a busy place with a lot of noise.. and I'm kinda old
But I do read and totally understand everyones frustrations with our current level, there will certainly be ups and downs this year, possibly the worst we've seen since Ferguson left. But let's leave the blame game for other threads and try to find the positive way forward. Whether our future is with Ole, in some ways doesn't matter. I can now see how our squad can be functional, if not yet exceptional, within a year or so and a realistic number of signings. When in recent times, we had far more problems than solutions. Now at least, we have a fairly solid base from which to build.

Scott McTominay isn’t nearly in the same class as the rest in the group you have names him in, but otherwise, yea - I echo your sentiment.

 

[Infra-red]

We're about six or seven first team players short of having a decent eleven, nevermind a top squad. We are miles off.

 

[RUCK4444]

I think there are a lot of people who think this squad is better than it actually is. I called midtable once the transfer window closed and we hadn’t bought enough players in.

Top players - De Gea, Pogba - one was in poor form the other injured.

Good players - Maguire, AWB.

Good players but inconsistent- Shaw, Lindelof, Martial, Rashford.

Look good because of the form of players around them - James, McTominay.

The rest of the squad isn’t up to scratch. Our midfield is non-existent. We have no goal scoring striker which is why we keep losing, we simply don’t score enough.

No balance in attack without a natural RW for the 5th season in a row.

No balance in midfield even if Pogba was fit, we needed at least another CM. Pereira was never going to make it yet we gave him a chance. The less said about Lingard the better. Matic has already retired, so has Mata.

No balance in defence as both CB lack pace and Shaw is never fit so we are using Young at LB yet again.

Add in an inexperienced manager it’s a recipe for a disaster.

Yup, the squad is a guaranteed mid table finish especially with the injuries.

What baffles me is people think Ole had ONE transfer window to undo all the shite the previous managers have done AND then coach them to a fourth place finish. This wasn’t happening the moment Ed didn’t replace Lukaku and we didn’t sign additional midfielders.

Lack of movement and attacking prowess has been an issue for us for many years now, movement was awful under SAF in the later years. It takes more than one window to rectify that.

We have played without any semblance of a proper press for years and years, we can at least see Ole is trying to address that.

Fans are impatient because of the mess we’ve had to endure with previous managers and Ole is given less time and backing as a result.

I am willing to see this out and let Ole buy more young high quality talent, the type of signings that any replacement manager could work with.

 

[ash_86]

Now we are seeing the basis of a team that may get us back to top 4...this is us now, this is how low our bar is set we dont talk about titles anymore but getting a shot to get into top 4.

We have finished in top 4 two times in 7 years. Get real ffs.

 

[0le]

I like the positive attitude.

But some of those core players are actually only making the bench in a top teams e.g. Rashford and McTominay. Martial is still unproven in that he hasn't had a season where he scored 20-30 PL goals. Pogba is gone next summer. All three OAP's may still be here next season and only one or two of the backup players will be sold. The squad will still be shit next season unless a youth player comes through which is not a given.

 

[Cockney Phil]

I think if Ole continues to run these players into the ground there will be more results like Bournemouth. He should have changed for the Chelski game, by Saturday McT looked shagged out when we needed him more. There has to be some sensible rotations to ensure the best see through the hard part of the season.

 

[MrBest]

World class player: De Gea
Players with excellent work rate and output: James, Awb, Mctominay, Tuanzabe, Williams
Great players but need better ones around them: pogba, martial, rashford, maguire
Players that work hard but not really good: andreas, fred, jones, rojo, lingard, Bailey
Players clearly passed it: young, mata, matic
Question marks: shaw, lindeloff
Verdict still out: Gomes, Greenwood, Garner and Chong, Dalot

I count 9 players who are probably not good enough to be in this squad, 6 of them are probably going to be a key part of this season. The only players that should be part of any future season first 11 are:
De Gea
Awb maguire Tuanzabe williams (i think this could be a great back 4)
New signing for defence mid (Ndidi type)
Pogba and new signing - advance midfielders
James martial rashford three forwarda

Two developed players are badly need in the middle, and depth is needed to cover these. I think we have some good players but Ole tactics are a complete disaster. Why can he not play oike he did when he first joined!

 

[ash_86]

If we get 2 midfielders and a rw that would be instant boost.

 

[Class of 63]

We've all written off this season now, right?

I don't post an awful lot in the united section. It's a busy place with a lot of noise.. and I'm kinda old

Nope far from it, top four might be a struggle(but still doable) and we've still got the League Cup, Europa League and the FA Cup to compete for, so it could yet be a great season.

If 43 is old i've got one foot and two toes in the grave

 

[SAFMUTD]

We have finished in top 4 two times in 7 years. Get real ffs.

That doesnt mean it should be our aim, for the last 30 years we always finished above third place. Really people are starting to get used to mediocrity here, thats the thing with stop winning for so long people get used to it.

 

[SAFMUTD]

World class player: De Gea
Players with excellent work rate and output: James, Awb, Mctominay, Tuanzabe, Williams
Great players but need better ones around them: pogba, martial, rashford, maguire
Players that work hard but not really good: andreas, fred, jones, rojo, lingard, Bailey
Players clearly passed it: young, mata, matic
Question marks: shaw, lindeloff
Verdict still out: Gomes, Greenwood, Garner and Chong, Dalot

I count 9 players who are probably not good enough to be in this squad, 6 of them are probably going to be a key part of this season. The only players that should be part of any future season first 11 are:
De Gea
Awb maguire Tuanzabe williams (i think this could be a great back 4)
New signing for defence mid (Ndidi type)
Pogba and new signing - advance midfielders
James martial rashford three forwarda

Two developed players are badly need in the middle, and depth is needed to cover these. I think we have some good players but Ole tactics are a complete disaster. Why can he not play oike he did when he first joined!

How are James, McTominay, Tuanzabe, AWB and Williams rated more than Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Maguire? not trying to be pessimist or anything but in a couple of years we could look back and see that anyone from those are not even playing at top level. Except for AWB who is the consolidated one.