We're starting to see the basis of a proper squad

lysglimt

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You dont understand tactics if you dont think ole is the problem.
Has OGS made mistakes ? Sure - but he is not the biggest problem at this club, not even close. Sacking OGS would solve absolutely nothing. We would get a new manager in with completely new ideas - maybe another one going back to signings superstars like Mkhitaryan, DiMaria etc...

No - I am happy with the way the club is going now….
 

VP89

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Disagree completely.

What has changing managers achieved for us post SAF? All changing managers does is create more problems.
> Changing backroom staff
> Different managers = different recruitment strategy
> Each new manager gets a massive budget / blows it / fails / repeat

Can you see that consistency is a MASSIVE factor into moving us forward?

I'd flip your statement and say that KEEPING Ole is a major factor for our "recovery"

I agree, there are multiple problems at the club, from ownership, to budget, to player power, lack of DOF and more.

Ole is the only manager I've understood since Fergie. He is relatable and has a plan and has done more good in 1 window than Moyes/LVG/Jose put together.

Are we light in some areas right now? Yes
Is that Ole's fault? No
Have we been lacking quality throughout the squad for YEARS? Yes

Ole has shown himself to be capable of letting players go, something no other manager has done. Is there more work to be done in the squad? Absolutely, but Ole could never transform this squad with 1 window. He needs 3 or 4.

This Ole out bandwagon is very narrow minded
You don't keep a bad manager just because you sacked managers before. Everyone wants consistency, but under the right stewardship. Your argument falls apart when you realise how bad Ole is, you don't just keep a bad manager for the sake of it.
 

VP89

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Has OGS made mistakes ? Sure - but he is not the biggest problem at this club, not even close. Sacking OGS would solve absolutely nothing. We would get a new manager in with completely new ideas - maybe another one going back to signings superstars like Mkhitaryan, DiMaria etc...

No - I am happy with the way the club is going now….
So you agree he's a problem.
 

Davìd Moyéz

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I don't agree with those that think the whole squad needs purging. Even in our most successful times under SAF we had a lot of players that people didn't rate, who in hindsight, had a big part to play.

Park, Brown, O'Shea, Evans, Anderson to name a few are all examples of players that a lot of fans didn't rate, but all played a hell of a lot of games for the club in a hugely successful side and most are now remembered as good squad players or much better.

The main difference between a lot of those players and the likes of Lindelof, Shaw, Pereira, Fred is not that they were much better footballers, but that they were playing in a successful side and that they were fringe players and not expected to start each week. You don't need every one of your squad to be in the 'would get into the City starting lineup' category. If we can upgrade a couple of key positions in our starting lineup with strong leaders then I don't think there's many players in our squad that aren't capable of performing around them.

Anderson is an interesting case (I'll resist the temptation to compare him to Fred even though he was a left footed Brazilian midfielder). Anderson isn't considered by many to be a big success but he played for us more than 180 times over 8 of the most successful seasons in our history. If he was in the squad now he'd be chucked on the list of players that we should move on from, but he was well utilised and very successful.

One poster has claimed that we should only retain 5 of our squad. It's not FIFA20 Career mode.
 
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Foxbatt

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You don't keep a bad manager just because you sacked managers before. Everyone wants consistency, but under the right stewardship. Your argument falls apart when you realise how bad Ole is, you don't just keep a bad manager for the sake of it.
Spot on. Some people never realise it until it is too late. The only consistency we have now is that we are piss poor and the manager has no clue when his original plan does not work.
If anyone thinks that all the players we get are going to be a success has no idea about football.

My problem with Ole is that he does not know how to get players playing at this top level. Yes some players are not good enough but any decent coach will get them to play better in a way that they can play. Ole is not capable of doing so.
I am absolutely disappointed and fed up with this sweet talk he is talking about. He is a legend as a player but a disaster as a manager.
 

Untd55

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You can complain about a lot of our players - but McTominay ? Seriously ? A midfielder who can defend, scores goals, good passer of the ball, strong tackler and good in the air. Give me a break. Even the most negative pundits are starting to realize he is a quality player
No, he is crap at passing. He has a 79% pass accuracy, and that is with him predominantly playing simple passes. He consistently fails at long passes or anything that goes forward. On top of that, he rarely ever tries them so it is evident that he fails at the short passes far more than a midfielder should. Nobody can hold a straight face whilst saying McTominay is a good passer.

He constantly loses the ball when under pressure, and quite a few times when there is no pressure.

He is average at defending; he is no better than players like Rice. Is that really good enough for Manchester United?

If he is considered a quality player, standards have really dropped. This guy isn't worthy of cleaning the boots of real Manchester United midfielders.

He got dominated by the Longstaffs; he got outplayed by West Ham's and Bournemouth's midfielders. It is because we have accepted players of McTominay's lower-class ilk that we are 10th. He is a part of the problem. Do you really not see that the reason we have zero creativity and fluidity is that we are relying on trash players like McTominay?

McTominay should not be anywhere near the first team.
 

shamans

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You can't point the finger at Ole alone

Well said. Some people on here think changing the manager when a few results go wrong is the answer. Every year we lost the Premiership, fans shouted for Fergies head. Ridiculous.
Listen I know we have problems. Even if we had a better manager wed still struggle to finish top four but we wouldnt be fighting for 11th place or whatever
 

shamans

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Has OGS made mistakes ? Sure - but he is not the biggest problem at this club, not even close. Sacking OGS would solve absolutely nothing. We would get a new manager in with completely new ideas - maybe another one going back to signings superstars like Mkhitaryan, DiMaria etc...

No - I am happy with the way the club is going now….
You're assuming a managers influence extends only to buying players and building a tactic .

A top manager makes better use of the players we do have as well.

If you think throwing the likes of Greenwood on in losing situations is fine for youngsters I dont know what to say.

Sacking ole isnt a complete fix but it's a damn start.
 

Bestietom

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Listen I know we have problems. Even if we had a better manager wed still struggle to finish top four but we wouldnt be fighting for 11th place or whatever
Whos fighting for 11th place . A lot of games left mate, and who knows who we can sign in January ??
 

Massive Spanner

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Whos fighting for 11th place . A lot of games left mate, and who knows who we can sign in January ??
Hate to break it to you, but under Ole, all we've been doing is getting worse, not better. And January signings rarely fix anything.

I don't think we'll finish as low as 11 but top four is impossible under Ole, for me.
 

red woppit

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We've all written off this season now, right? Let's look to the rebuild process and focus on what's needed to complete the job. If they'd all left in the summer, not many would have been missed. But I would say that, when all are fit, we have a decent enough core at a good age to build upon.

We have a core of players now who are, imho, good enough to get us back to the top 4 with the right players around them:
DeGea
Wan-Bissaka
Maguire
Mctominay
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

We have a small group of players who are perfectly good enough to be squad/rotation players next season:
Romero
Shaw
Lindelof
James

We have some that can be retained as decent backup players or sold without really losing anything:
Jones
Rojo
Bailly
Dalot
Fred
Lingard
Pereira

That leaves some older players who have to leave next summer, so shouldn't play unless there's no one else available:
Young
Matic
Mata


So, that's 7 first teamers I'd be content with starting next season. As it stands then we need a LB, CB, CM and RW with another CM and CF to upgrade our cover/competition. That's 6 players needed.

Though of course there's a large group of young players that I haven't mentioned yet. While I understand the calls for Greenwood to start, I haven't personally seen enough yet to think he's going to be first team regular within 2 years. Garner, Gomes and Chong even less. Williams has looked really good but I want to see him get a good run of games. He and Shaw together might be enough to not need a LB.
Tuanzebe looks to me to be closest to PL starter level and, as it stands, I think he will show enough this season, that we can delay a CB signing.

The kids will continue to get chances this season through necessity. It's up to them to prove that we don't need some of those positions to be filled. If Axel and Williams are up to the job, then adding 2 CMs, RW and a CF would make us competitive again, if we can get those signings right. That doesn't seem so far off to me.

Could any of the other kids cement a place? Would bringing in a new manager now simply reset things all over again?

I don't post an awful lot in the united section. It's a busy place with a lot of noise.. and I'm kinda old :nervous:
But I do read and totally understand everyones frustrations with our current level, there will certainly be ups and downs this year, possibly the worst we've seen since Ferguson left. But let's leave the blame game for other threads and try to find the positive way forward. Whether our future is with Ole, in some ways doesn't matter. I can now see how our squad can be functional, if not yet exceptional, within a year or so and a realistic number of signings. When in recent times, we had far more problems than solutions. Now at least, we have a fairly solid base from which to build.
Excellent post, very close to my thoughts on keeping/upgrading current squad members. Pogba, I feel, is almost a cert to leave, and possibly for less than most people want, but I felt for some time that his heart is not really at Old Trafford, so cannot see him being here next season. I agree with Williams and Tuanzebe, and I think Garner will start to be involved more on the pitch over the next few weeks. I like Gomes, but he seems a little injury prone, not surprising as he takes a lot of knocks with his skill, Laird, Levitt also possibly coming into the reckoning, Greenwood still needs nurturing, so would keep giving him a few minutes in certain matches. So 2 x CM's (Fernandes/Maddison?), RW or Right sided midfielder (Sancho/Brooks?), Striker (Haaland?), and possibly a punt into the championship (Phillips?).
 

Bestietom

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Hate to break it to you, but under Ole, all we've been doing is getting worse, not better. And January signings rarely fix anything.

I don't think we'll finish as low as 11 but top four is impossible under Ole, for me.
Yes, I will agree with you there mate, top four is out of reach this season. But we won't finish below 7th I would say, and maybe even better.
 

Massive Spanner

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Yes, I will agree with you there mate, top four is out of reach this season. But we won't finish below 7th I would say, and maybe even better.
Do you genuinely believe that's in any way good enough though?

I think the only potential scenario I'd see a finish like that as being acceptable is if we looked like we were improving, our players were improving, our coaching looked better, we were playing better football, we looked like a more cohesive unit, our manager looked like he actually knew what he was doing .. i.e. things you would expect if you are to let a manager do his rebuild,

But under Ole we have basically gotten worse in every single one of those areas so I truly can't fathom how people can be under the illusion that riding this season out under him and finishing ... 7th.. is acceptable.
 

Craig Ward

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You don't keep a bad manager just because you sacked managers before. Everyone wants consistency, but under the right stewardship. Your argument falls apart when you realise how bad Ole is, you don't just keep a bad manager for the sake of it.
Whose saying Ole is a bad manager?

He's so far shown periods of good results, and periods of bad results. Same as Moyes/LVG/Jose...…

Labelling Ole as bad with this squad of 4 previous managers players, under Woodwards rule with years of mistakes after he has had ONE transfer window is extremely harsh.

People forget that we are ultimately paying the price now for years of mis-management from the top. Ole is the only utd manager to have a transfer plan, but when Woodward fails and our footballing form suffers its all Ole's fault.

Jose Mourinho and LVG were well respected managers with world class backgrounds and they both massively failed here under Woodward. Ole has one hand tied behind his back and 75% of the fan base have already labelled him a disaster less then 6 months into him having the job. Very fickle

Learn to see the bigger picture and embrace the positives. Its not all doom and gloom
 

Massive Spanner

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Whose saying Ole is a bad manager?

He's so far shown periods of good results, and periods of bad results. Same as Moyes/LVG/Jose...…
It's not the same at all. None of those three were in any way as bad here in their first season, not even Moyes.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Do you genuinely believe that's in any way good enough though?

I think the only potential scenario I'd see a finish like that as being acceptable is if we looked like we were improving, our players were improving, our coaching looked better, we were playing better football, we looked like a more cohesive unit, our manager looked like he actually knew what he was doing .. i.e. things you would expect if you are to let a manager do his rebuild,

But under Ole we have basically gotten worse in every single one of those areas so I truly can't fathom how people can be under the illusion that riding this season out under him and finishing ... 7th.. is acceptable.
Finishing 7th with the amount of money this club has spent is never acceptable. That is a lot of peoples fault. I just think Ole went into this season as a right off from the start. He won't come out and say that. As has been said he should be a politician. Says one thing to the fans but means the opposite.
 

Massive Spanner

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Finishing 7th with the amount of money this club has spent is never acceptable. That is a lot of peoples fault. I just think Ole went into this season as a right off from the start. He won't come out and say that. As has been said he should be a politician. Says one thing to the fans but means the opposite.
What do you mean? You think Ole went into it expecting it to be a write-off, or you think it's a write-off because we went into it with Ole?

I'd say only the latter is true.
 

Woodzy

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I don’t see much reason to have optimism at the moment considering we are writing the season off in November.
 

Craig Ward

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It's not the same at all. None of those three were in any way as bad here in their first season, not even Moyes.
Neither of them 3 managers actually looked to transform and re-shape the squad, perhaps if they did the squad wouldn't be in such a mess right now.

Ole has worked more on outgoings in one window than any manager has in years.

Cant you see Ole has to re-shape the entire squad? So perhaps maybe between 6>10 players out of 25 will ultimately fit his vision. You think that's easy to do?

LVG and Jose jus threw money at it on senseless signings while not actually selling on the players that didn't fit, which is why several years later our squad is beret of quality and full of players whose best days have gone or aren't motivated to be here.

Its a failing of the board, but a failing Ole has to sort. And he will, if we leave him to his job instead of bashing him every 20 seconds

Bigger picture, I keep saying it. Think big
 

Bestietom

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Do you genuinely believe that's in any way good enough though?

I think the only potential scenario I'd see a finish like that as being acceptable is if we looked like we were improving, our players were improving, our coaching looked better, we were playing better football, we looked like a more cohesive unit, our manager looked like he actually knew what he was doing .. i.e. things you would expect if you are to let a manager do his rebuild,

But under Ole we have basically gotten worse in every single one of those areas so I truly can't fathom how people can be under the illusion that riding this season out under him and finishing ... 7th.. is acceptable.
Of another year No, it would not be acceptable. But Woody realises now that he made a mistake in not replacing Herrera and Lukaku which was promised to Ole. Woody needs to take some of the blame for this, and for this reason he will give him another window or 2 to fix things. This is my opinion.
 

ROFLUTION

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@OP

Yeah, but 5-6 quality players are both:
a) tough to get in our current state
b) hard to get with our current net-spend

We're talking 50-110m pr player. No way Glazers are gonna spend that currently
 

Massive Spanner

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Neither of them 3 managers actually looked to transform and re-shape the squad, perhaps if they did the squad wouldn't be in such a mess right now.

Ole has worked more on outgoings in one window than any manager has in years.

Cant you see Ole has to re-shape the entire squad? So perhaps maybe between 6>10 players out of 25 will ultimately fit his vision. You think that's easy to do?

LVG and Jose jus threw money at it on senseless signings while not actually selling on the players that didn't fit, which is why several years later our squad is beret of quality and full of players whose best days have gone or aren't motivated to be here.

Its a failing of the board, but a failing Ole has to sort. And he will, if we leave him to his job instead of bashing him every 20 seconds

Bigger picture, I keep saying it. Think big
I can see the big picture perfectly well, it's one where one of the world's biggest football club's continues to persist with a manager who clearly can't hack it at this level and continue to fade more and more into obscurity, because said manager is a former club legend and some people are blinded by that and can't see that he's doing far more damage than good.

Just to be completely clear, you want to give Ole the time to sign 6-10 more players, not.. I don't know.. a good manager? You want Ole to do it, you don't think it'd be a better idea to say.. hire a really good manager with a proven record of building teams and letting them do it instead? No?
 

DomesticTadpole

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What do you mean? You think Ole went into it expecting it to be a write-off, or you think it's a write-off because we went into it with Ole?

I'd say only the latter is true.
Maybe both in a way, because it is Ole he knows his squad is short so was not expecting much, but also because it is Ole he does not have the skills to make the most of what he does have. Once he realised he was not going to get replacements for Lukaku and Herrera then I think he knew it was not going to be great. It is a mess and a lot of people are to blame, including previous managers.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I can see the big picture perfectly well, it's one where one of the world's biggest football club's continues to persist with a manager who clearly can't hack it at this level and continue to fade more and more into obscurity, because said manager is a former club legend and some people are blinded by that and can't see that he's doing far more damage than good.

Just to be completely clear, you want to give Ole the time to sign 6-10 more players, not.. I don't know.. a good manager? You want Ole to do it, you don't think it'd be a better idea to say.. hire a really good manager with a proven record of building teams and letting them do it instead? No?
You could also look at if he signed a load more players are they going to be coached to a high standard. I bet a lot of players would be shocked at our coaching staff, not quite Moyes level but not far off.
 

Shaw Mee Tah Mané

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Name 1 successful manager that have worse players than Young, AWB & Pereira/Lingard in LB, RB & AMC positions. Thats the key.

Just imagine Chilwell & Maddison instead of Young & Pereira. Feck it, give me Targett & Grealish. Or Rico & Brooks. Willems & Almiron. Cresswell & Snodgrass/Lanzini. Anything is better than Young & Pereira.
 

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I can accept Ole is building towards the future, the same way Moyes was building towards the future... i.e. both out of their depth and going absolutely nowhere.

We're 10th in the league, 10 points from top 4 already after 11 games. 10 points behind Frank's Chelsea i might add, who had a transfer ban for goodness sake.

We've fallen so low under him that, to get a single shot on target in the 90 is a cause for celebration now.

He clearly can't coach, as existing players are stagnating or going backwards & the play style is also horrendous. He's also failed to instill a strong mentality into the squad as you can write off matches as soon as we go behind, so what exactly is he doing that deserves more time i wonder?

These thread narratives are utterly bizarre to me.

When will people stop deluding themselves from reality?
 
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Roboc7

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Finishing 7th with the amount of money this club has spent is never acceptable. That is a lot of peoples fault. I just think Ole went into this season as a right off from the start. He won't come out and say that. As has been said he should be a politician. Says one thing to the fans but means the opposite.
There’s no way this season was supposed to be this bad, Ole and Woodward would have been expecting to challenge for top 4.

Their 3 year plan is about competing for the title, that was written off this season but there is nothing planned about how bad the team currently is.
 

VP89

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Whose saying Ole is a bad manager?

He's so far shown periods of good results, and periods of bad results. Same as Moyes/LVG/Jose...…

Labelling Ole as bad with this squad of 4 previous managers players, under Woodwards rule with years of mistakes after he has had ONE transfer window is extremely harsh.

People forget that we are ultimately paying the price now for years of mis-management from the top. Ole is the only utd manager to have a transfer plan, but when Woodward fails and our footballing form suffers its all Ole's fault.

Jose Mourinho and LVG were well respected managers with world class backgrounds and they both massively failed here under Woodward. Ole has one hand tied behind his back and 75% of the fan base have already labelled him a disaster less then 6 months into him having the job. Very fickle

Learn to see the bigger picture and embrace the positives. Its not all doom and gloom
Did you just compare Ole to Mourinho and LVG?

I'm at work so I can't find a recent article, but as of 4th October, our form since the game in Paris would have seen us relegated in 4 of the last 24 seasons, with 9 17th league finishes.

Man City had scored more goals in their last 5 matches than Man Utd did when Ole became manager.

After 32 matches, he was worse than David Moyes.

Now given since then we've had 1 win in 3, its probably worse.

With Jose and LVG there was a pedigree to fall back on to earn time, and they had highs that we can't conceive under Ole. Like finishing 2nd with 81 points or winning the Europa Cup. They may have imploded in the end but it went up before going down. Ole is in charge and its not just going down, it's nose diving. And he has no pedigree to point to extra time on top.
 

lysglimt

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You're assuming a managers influence extends only to buying players and building a tactic .

A top manager makes better use of the players we do have as well.

If you think throwing the likes of Greenwood on in losing situations is fine for youngsters I dont know what to say.

Sacking ole isnt a complete fix but it's a damn start.
No I don't assume that - but no manager can make Fred and Matic quality-players. At best he can turn them into decent players. But that is what Moyes, Mourinho and LvG has left us with. We have made so many errors over the last close to 10 years - it can't be fixed in 1 year.

Even Ferguson has to take parts of the blame. When he left - we had a 30 year old RvP, Ferdinand was 34, Vidic 31, Evra 32, Carrick 32, Valencia was 28, Young was 28, Giggs and Scholes retired, Rooney was 28, Kagawa wasn't good enough, Anderson was never good enough, Welbeck wasn't good enough, and Fletcher was effectively finished because of his illness.

And then we had 3 disasters in a row who gradually cleared Fergusons players and replaced them with crap….or quality players who didnt want to be here.
 

Craig Ward

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I can see the big picture perfectly well, it's one where one of the world's biggest football club's continues to persist with a manager who clearly can't hack it at this level and continue to fade more and more into obscurity, because said manager is a former club legend and some people are blinded by that and can't see that he's doing far more damage than good.

Just to be completely clear, you want to give Ole the time to sign 6-10 more players, not.. I don't know.. a good manager? You want Ole to do it, you don't think it'd be a better idea to say.. hire a really good manager with a proven record of building teams and letting them do it instead? No?
Like Moyes? Like LVG? Like Mourinho? Those good managers yeah?

Cos that worked so well.

I haven't reference the fact Ole is a club legend once throughout my replies, I'm basing my reasoning on more than that. It took Ole less than 6 months to identify players that didn't fit his style and they've gone. Yes more work is needed but he cannot re-shape the squad in 1 window, hence he needs time.

Its not necessarily Ole im a fan of, what I like is the vision he has. We've had absolutely no vision or forward planning for about 6 years. That's a massive problem. Ole has shown in a short time he will sacrifice players that don't fit that vision and sell, while also recruiting with some ambition/forward thinking.

I admit I was pleased with the 3 signings but felt we needed more, which is a board issue rather than a manager issue. We are all aware of Woodwards failings on the recruitment side of things.

I genuinely believe with another 2-4 windows this squad will look entirely different.

I just hope patience wins the day and Woodward keeps faith.
 

stepic

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From the OP’s list:

DeGea
Wan-Bissaka
Maguire
Mctominay
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

McTom is definitely not good enough, he’s fairly average. Pogba is likely off, and Rashford and Martial are both still wildly inconsistent to be regarded as starter material for a title challenge. And that’s from the supposed ‘core’ list. We are absolutely miles away from a title challenge.

Weird also that OP is now content at just finishing 4th in terms of our aspirations. We really have become Arsenal. A worse Arsenal.
 

DomesticTadpole

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There’s no way this season was supposed to be this bad, Ole and Woodward would have been expecting to challenge for top 4.

Their 3 year plan is about competing for the title, that was written off this season but there is nothing planned about how bad the team currently is.
I think once the transfer window shut Ole would have been hoping for no injuries, that went well. I think he has been let down badly by the club. However I also think he is rather naive and is putting far too much trust in young players with no experience and in a coaching staff with not enough quality.
 

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Like Moyes? Like LVG? Like Mourinho? Those good managers yeah?

Cos that worked so well.

I haven't reference the fact Ole is a club legend once throughout my replies, I'm basing my reasoning on more than that. It took Ole less than 6 months to identify players that didn't fit his style and they've gone. Yes more work is needed but he cannot re-shape the squad in 1 window, hence he needs time.

Its not necessarily Ole im a fan of, what I like is the vision he has. We've had absolutely no vision or forward planning for about 6 years. That's a massive problem. Ole has shown in a short time he will sacrifice players that don't fit that vision and sell, while also recruiting with some ambition/forward thinking.

I admit I was pleased with the 3 signings but felt we needed more, which is a board issue rather than a manager issue. We are all aware of Woodwards failings on the recruitment side of things.

I genuinely believe with another 2-4 windows this squad will look entirely different.

I just hope patience wins the day and Woodward keeps faith.
No, not like Moyes, LvG, or Mourinho, quite clearly, because none of those three (bar the LvG of a long, long time ago) fit the criteria of a manager who can build top teams if given time.

How about Pochettino, or Rose, or even fecking Eddie Howe, who has proven himself far more than Ole has? Or how about trying to find a manager like Klopp who has already shown themselves capable of building great teams if given time to do so?

What's Ole's vision exactly? Can you give me some details? So far I see no semblemce of his style of play, or coaching, or what he does to improve players. All I see is that he's gotten rid of players we could have probably used this season and he's made one great signing, one obvious and very expensive signing, and one insanely overpriced signing, all of which were British. His solution to our midfield was supposedly Sean Longstaff, also Britsh, and nowhere near good enough. So what's his vision beyond just "well look, he's done all right in the transfer window and got rid of some players I don't like!"?
 

Majima

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Like Moyes? Like LVG? Like Mourinho? Those good managers yeah?

Cos that worked so well.

I haven't reference the fact Ole is a club legend once throughout my replies, I'm basing my reasoning on more than that. It took Ole less than 6 months to identify players that didn't fit his style and they've gone. Yes more work is needed but he cannot re-shape the squad in 1 window, hence he needs time.

Its not necessarily Ole im a fan of, what I like is the vision he has. We've had absolutely no vision or forward planning for about 6 years. That's a massive problem. Ole has shown in a short time he will sacrifice players that don't fit that vision and sell, while also recruiting with some ambition/forward thinking.

I admit I was pleased with the 3 signings but felt we needed more, which is a board issue rather than a manager issue. We are all aware of Woodwards failings on the recruitment side of things.

I genuinely believe with another 2-4 windows this squad will look entirely different.

I just hope patience wins the day and Woodward keeps faith.
Even if you want to believe Ole will manage to identify clever targets and sign the right players in the future... back in reality, his coaching and results since February to now (i.e. the main body of his work), have been nothing short of horrific in the meantime.

Where is the evidence this season, of Ole's successful management to indicate to future success?

I can't see it, no matter how hard i try. That is why i have zero trust in him going forward, there's nothing of substance to point to, where i can see us progressing under him.

Play style is horrendous & one-dimensional, coaching is non-existent, the mentality is pitifully weak. Everything across the board is stagnating. That's not the sign of future progress to me.

Fellaini was sold in January, knew Herrera was leaving in advance, knew Matic was finished & still chose to ignore the midfield. Even his 6 month summer plan is questionable, considering we ended it with a weaker squad than we started with.

Surely it cannot be the right idea to let someone this incompetent to reshape your club over 1/2/3 years. Not unless you want to see it burn anyway. It's not like there isn't plenty of managers out there right now if we are ambitious enough.
 

Craig Ward

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Even if you want to believe Ole will manage to identify clever targets and sign the right players in the future... back in reality, his coaching and results since February to now (i.e. the main body of his work), have been nothing short of horrific in the meantime.

Where is the evidence this season, of Ole's successful management to indicate to future success?

I can't see it, no matter how hard i try. That is why i have zero trust in him going forward, there's nothing of substance to point to, where i can see us progressing under him.

Play style is horrendous & one-dimensional, coaching is non-existent, the mentality is pitifully weak. Everything across the board is stagnating. That's not the sign of future progress to me.

Fellaini was sold in January, knew Herrera was leaving in advance, knew Matic was finished & still chose to ignore the midfield. Even his 6 month summer plan is questionable, considering we ended it with a weaker squad than we started with.

Surely it cannot be the right idea to let someone this incompetent to reshape your club over 1/2/3 years. Not unless you want to see it burn anyway. It's not like there isn't plenty of managers out there right now if we are ambitious enough.
Did you like the style of play under Moyes/LVG/Jose?

Can you not understand that this is a transition period where Ole has 4 managers worth of players who are not capable of adapting to his style of play?

With each window, the more players that leave the squad will look better.

The more of his own signings that come in and integrate etc can only lead to better performances.

Look at the squad Ole has. How on earth can Lingard/Mata produce the level of performances required? They cant. Ole can do so much, but its time he needs.

I get frustrated when I watch games too, the football on times looks abysmal. But I believe it can and will get better. I'm already grateful im not watching Lukaku mis control everything and Sanchez jus stood there shaking his head trying to work out if he's a footballer or not, or Smalling looking like every time he touches the ball it might blow up. The time will come when Young is gone, Jones, Rojo, Mata, Matic……..

Embrace the change, it takes time. We are in transition. Ole is trying to re-shape the squad with no DOF and Ed Woodward in charge of transfers. Its not an easy journey, but its one we have to believe in
 

Posh Red

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Did you like the style of play under Moyes/LVG/Jose?

Can you not understand that this is a transition period where Ole has 4 managers worth of players who are not capable of adapting to his style of play?

With each window, the more players that leave the squad will look better.

The more of his own signings that come in and integrate etc can only lead to better performances.

Look at the squad Ole has. How on earth can Lingard/Mata produce the level of performances required? They cant. Ole can do so much, but its time he needs.

I get frustrated when I watch games too, the football on times looks abysmal. But I believe it can and will get better. I'm already grateful im not watching Lukaku mis control everything and Sanchez jus stood there shaking his head trying to work out if he's a footballer or not, or Smalling looking like every time he touches the ball it might blow up. The time will come when Young is gone, Jones, Rojo, Mata, Matic……..

Embrace the change, it takes time. We are in transition. Ole is trying to re-shape the squad with no DOF and Ed Woodward in charge of transfers. Its not an easy journey, but its one we have to believe in
I just can't agree with the argument that he doesn't have his own players. Whilst that is a hindrance, it does not justify just how bad we have been.

Frank Lampard inherited a squad containing players of various other managers (including Sarri, who in some ways had a similar philosophy to LVG), lost his best player, and was not able to add any of his own signings. Chelsea are currently ten points above us, playing exciting attacking football, whilst bringing through numerous academy players. How exactly is Ole's situation much worse than Chelsea's? And why is Frank getting far more out of his squad than Ole?
 

romufc

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You don't keep a bad manager just because you sacked managers before. Everyone wants consistency, but under the right stewardship. Your argument falls apart when you realise how bad Ole is, you don't just keep a bad manager for the sake of it.
It is a results business, so what if we sacked the others? you keep sacking until it works out or you see some improvement.

This is no holiday camp.
 

billybee99

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Disagree completely.

What has changing managers achieved for us post SAF? All changing managers does is create more problems.
> Changing backroom staff
> Different managers = different recruitment strategy
> Each new manager gets a massive budget / blows it / fails / repeat

Can you see that consistency is a MASSIVE factor into moving us forward?

I'd flip your statement and say that KEEPING Ole is a major factor for our "recovery"

I agree, there are multiple problems at the club, from ownership, to budget, to player power, lack of DOF and more.

Ole is the only manager I've understood since Fergie. He is relatable and has a plan and has done more good in 1 window than Moyes/LVG/Jose put together.

Are we light in some areas right now? Yes
Is that Ole's fault? No
Have we been lacking quality throughout the squad for YEARS? Yes

Ole has shown himself to be capable of letting players go, something no other manager has done. Is there more work to be done in the squad? Absolutely, but Ole could never transform this squad with 1 window. He needs 3 or 4.

This Ole out bandwagon is very narrow minded
How many managers have Bayern, Madrid and Barca had since Sir Alex retired? I would guess that each of them has had as many or more than us. It doesn't seem to hurt them. Teams replace their managers all the time and they don't need an 8 window rebuild.