Westminster Politics 2024-2029

SilentWitness said:
I'm assuming they are like me where they're fed up of tactically voting for people that they also despise. I can't stand Starmer and the direction he has taken Labour and they have absolutely lost my vote with how they and he has been. I think it's completely fair that people have a limit with what they will accept when a vote is tactical and Starmer has gone beyond that limit.
Click to expand...

TheGame said:
If that limit is voting for another party fair enough, if that limit is voting for Reform ran by a man who has damaged the country the most and caused division day after day, that’s bonkers.
Click to expand...

What has Starmer done to deserve this U grade? Genuinely curious
 
SilentWitness said:
It's easy to say that but when said parties have been damaging to your community or over certain issues and values then it's understandable that someone would not want to vote for them and they shouldn't really be made to feel bad about it either.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately that’s the position we’re in. Life is going to get considerably worse for every single one of us living in the UK as this lot gathers more steam, and they will now.
 
It would be worth Labour considering whether they can use their majority to force through a change in the voting system before the next election. I don't see how else we can stop Reform now. this is such a depressing situation.
 
Eleven-Eighteen said:
What has Starmer done to deserve this U grade? Genuinely curious
Click to expand...
He hasn’t, Labour have had a mixed bag, some good, some not so good. Sometimes they’ve shot themselves in the foot with their decisions. The media has given Farage a free pass. A man who chanted anti semitic slogans, was friends with a Russian asset in his party, fecked the country over Brexit, has a number of non parliamentary interests and earns more money than a lot of other people and recently got given £5m asking for nothing in return. Normally 1 or 2 of those things would finish a politician, instead our media has enabled this guy.
 
Despite several people on this forum wishing ill against Americans who didn’t vote trump in, I hope things can somehow get better in the UK
 
Eleven-Eighteen said:
What has Starmer done to deserve this U grade? Genuinely curious
Click to expand...
He's a weak man whose line between what he says and what he does are far far apart. His moral values on issues like trans rights, Israel/Palestine, islamophobia, Trump, Mandelson etc. I can go on and on. Horrible man and one that I cannot and will not vote or align with.
 
TheGame said:
He hasn’t, Labour have had a mixed bag, some good, some not so good. Sometimes they’ve shot themselves in the foot with their decisions. The media has given Farage a free pass. A man who chanted anti semitic slogans, was friends with a Russian asset in his party, fecked the country over Brexit, has a number of non parliamentary interests and earns more money than a lot of other people and recently got given £5m asking for nothing in return. Normally 1 or 2 of those things would finish a politician, instead our media has enabled this guy.
Click to expand...

Lets be fair, Labour have done at least one thing to piss off every demographic or voter block.

Given people are predisposed to dislike Labour, and the media/social media landscape the country is increasingly ungovernable for the party.

The phenomenon may actually extend to other parties once this aggrievance spiralling reaches the event horizon..
 
Buster15 said:
Had Corbyn done a good job organising his new party then?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what point you took away from my post that would lead to this being a relevant query to be honest.

I'm discussing Labours new strategy, I don't fancy a diversion into 'yeah but Corbyn' thanks.
 
Drainy said:
Lets be fair, Labour have done at least one thing to piss off every demographic or voter block.

Given people are predisposed to dislike Labour, and the media/social media landscape the country is increasingly ungovernable for the party.

The phenomenon may actually extend to other parties once this aggrievance spiralling reaches the event horizon..
Click to expand...
I don’t think you can take any decisions in Government though without pissing someone off.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Well they haven't achieved independence which is still their primary goal I assume?

Reform could theoretically evolve and develop a coherent ideology and long term purpose, but its not Farage's MO. Like UKIP or the Brexit Party, these vehicles come and go.

There will be further iterations or similiar parties for sure. Theres several already, and dozens that have been and gone already. They can never agree and unite under one banner because they fundamentally lack a coherent, mutually shared belief system, and because they're all built around a single issue.
Click to expand...
Reform do have an ideology and purpose. And that is to restore the old ways of where everything was run by rich white men, for rich white men. And an end to the regulation of businesses, environmental and workers protections. A place where the rich get richer, at the expense of literally everything else.

Just because you've not seen it coming doesn't mean it's not been signposted. It's basically 'let's copy Trump's US model, with the financial backing of the very same people to the very same ends'.
 
People are seemingly desperate to paint it as a party issue, Starmer is historically unpopular. We've heard it from those on the doorsteps and we've seen it in the polling. People do not like Starmer, you can't win if almost everyone dislikes your leader. It's the number one issue for Labour to solve.

There's other issues going on that Labour will need to look at but none so significant as the soured relationship the electorate have with Starmer.

I feel sorry for all the councillors who have lost their position because the stubborn idiots didn't resign months ago. Instead he's let the issue linger and Reform gain more momentum.
 
Eleven-Eighteen said:
What has Starmer done to deserve this U grade? Genuinely curious
Click to expand...
Renegged on every single one of his promises in the Labour leadership election, and proceeded to reneg on a bunch more made while campaigning for PM, chasing Reform voters with increasingly right-wing policies once in power with a huge majority, quoting Enoch Powell and saying Israel has the right to commit war crimes.
 
SilentWitness said:
He's a weak man whose line between what he says and what he does are far far apart. His moral values on issues like trans rights, Israel/Palestine, islamophobia, Trump, Mandelson etc. I can go on and on. Horrible man and one that I cannot and will not vote or align with.
Click to expand...

decorativeed said:
Renegged on every single one of his promises in the Labour leadership election, and proceeded to reneg on a bunch more made while campaigning for PM, chasing Reform voters with increasingly right-wing policies once in power with a huge majority, quoting Enoch Powell and saying Israel has the right to commit war crimes.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this @Eleven-Eighteen in relation to what he says and what he does. Can't stand him.
 
decorativeed said:
Renegged on every single one of his promises in the Labour leadership election, and proceeded to reneg on a bunch more made while campaigning for PM, chasing Reform voters with increasingly right-wing policies once in power with a huge majority, quoting Enoch Powell and saying Israel has the right to commit war crimes.
Click to expand...

The issue were the promises in the first place. Everyone with experience in government in the run up to the last general election and economic experts made this exact point. There was no way that Labour could do what they were promising without raising taxes, something they continually refused to commit to.

On the right-wing points, Labour had to go in that direction to an extent because a lot of their traditional support is going to Reform. But this is a change in British politics rather than something specific to Labour/Starmer - people are now so entrenched in their non-negotiable stances that broadchurch parties like Labour simply won't be able to survive.
 
groovyalbert said:
On the right-wing points, Labour had to go in that direction to an extent because a lot of their traditional support is going to Reform. But this is a change in British politics rather than something specific to Labour/Starmer - people are now so entrenched in their non-negotiable stances that broadchurch parties like Labour simply won't be able to survive.
Click to expand...
Are they? Surely their traditional support is going Green/Lib Dems and they're trying to sweep up the Conservative voters that are heading to Reform.
 
SilentWitness said:
Are they? Surely their traditional support is going Green/Lib Dems and they're trying to sweep up the Conservative voters that are heading to Reform.
Click to expand...

In places like London and major cities, but if you are following the voting patterns of former Labour voters who supported Brexit and where they now vote, I don't think they're voting Green/LibDem
 
Buster15 said:
I read that where there was a Brexit vote of 40%+, reform has done well.
Conclusion. Once gullible, always gullible?
Click to expand...
Suspect it is mainly the 'red wall' areas.

Brexit was effectively (at least for many) a 'disillusion vote', it was more to do with the 'perceived reality' of many in 'red wall' areas, of feeling left behind, of not being heard. Now after having returned to Labour, on a promise of change and having a massive majority to do so, these areas are once again feeling unheard, left behind; because 'change' has not come as quickly and wide-ranging as they wanted....and was never likely to do!!

So in this election, Reform is picking up on the same 'disillusioned sentiment' delivered in the 'Leave' vote in Brexit.

"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to making the same mistakes"

There are lots of faults (non-representation) in the FPTP system, but with two large parties covering a broad range of the left and the right in politics, a workable format for governance was obtainable, with the odd coalition thrown in.
Now however the 'splits' will be likely to become so massive, that future Governments made up of a variety of political 'stripes', may not be able to 'find their way out of a paper bag', inertia will reign in the corridors of power and decay all around, will increase rapidly.... are there any 'small boats' going the other way?
 
groovyalbert said:
The issue were the promises in the first place. Everyone with experience in government in the run up to the last general election and economic experts made this exact point. There was no way that Labour could do what they were promising without raising taxes, something they continually refused to commit to.

On the right-wing points, Labour had to go in that direction to an extent because a lot of their traditional support is going to Reform. But this is a change in British politics rather than something specific to Labour/Starmer - people are now so entrenched in their non-negotiable stances that broadchurch parties like Labour simply won't be able to survive.
Click to expand...
If the issue was the promises, do we also need to blame Starmer for choosing to make those promises, or was that also someone else's fault?

Was he being an idiot or just a liar?
 
Smores said:
People are seemingly desperate to paint it as a party issue, Starmer is historically unpopular. We've heard it from those on the doorsteps and we've seen it in the polling. People do not like Starmer, you can't win if almost everyone dislikes your leader. It's the number one issue for Labour to solve.

There's other issues going on that Labour will need to look at but none so significant as the soured relationship the electorate have with Starmer.

I feel sorry for all the councillors who have lost their position because the stubborn idiots didn't resign months ago. Instead he's let the issue linger and Reform gain more momentum.
Click to expand...
This is a problem for Labour. Their leaders are unliked for as long as I remember. And they get more media attention than the Tory leaders despite the likes of BoJo, Sunak and Truss being truly awful

Labour need to get behind someone like the guy from Manchester, a real salt of earth type that people can identify with
 
The stupidity of the British public continues to depress.
Going in such a bad direction, no way the centre can hold in such a political/media environment where everything is grievance lead and the economic outlook not giving people hope for the future.
 
Maticmaker said:
Suspect it is mainly the 'red wall' areas.

Brexit was effectively (at least for many) a 'disillusion vote', it was more to do with the 'perceived reality' of many in 'red wall' areas, of feeling left behind, of not being heard. Now after having returned to Labour, on a promise of change and having a massive majority to do so, these areas are once again feeling unheard, left behind; because 'change' has not come as quickly and wide-ranging as they wanted....and was never likely to do!!

So in this election, Reform is picking up on the same 'disillusioned sentiment' delivered in the 'Leave' vote in Brexit.

"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to making the same mistakes"

There are lots of faults (non-representation) in the FPTP system, but with two large parties covering a broad range of the left and the right in politics, a workable format for governance was obtainable, with the odd coalition thrown in.
Now however the 'splits' will be likely to become so massive, that future Governments made up of a variety of political 'stripes', may not be able to 'find their way out of a paper bag', inertia will reign in the corridors of power and decay all around, will increase rapidly.... are there any 'small boats' going the other way?
Click to expand...
After a decade of absolute chaos left by the Tories, no way any party was going to be able to do any significant change in the short period that they’ve had
 
In Cardiff bay at the moment, can see the BBC have set up outside the parliament, curious to know who they have talking.
 
decorativeed said:
If the issue was the promises, do we also need to blame Starmer for choosing to make those promises, or was that also someone else's fault?

Was he being an idiot or just a liar?
Click to expand...

I think it's a result of Labour having been an opposition party for too long and having a leader with no experience in being in government.

Basically, being an opposition is easy - hindsight is 20/20 and it's a lot easier to pick out faults than come up with tangible solutions.

I think this Labour government has been shown up for their inexperience, lack of clarity and political instinct. They've got more things wrong than they've got right but they're flip-flopping has been critical. Starmer won't last they summer at this rate.

I do have sympathies for the challenges they've faced on a geopolitical stage - the world is a mess and Trump is an impossible president for any liberal/progressive government to deal with, especially when they themselves are leading a country so reliant on the US in terms of their economy and defense.
 
groovyalbert said:
I think it's a result of Labour having been an opposition party for too long and having a leader with no experience in being in government.

Basically, being an opposition is easy - hindsight is 20/20 and it's a lot easier to pick out faults than come up with tangible solutions.

I think this Labour government has been shown up for their inexperience, lack of clarity and political instinct. They've got more things wrong than they've got right but they're flip-flopping has been critical. Starmer won't last they summer at this rate.

I do have sympathies for the challenges they've faced on a geopolitical stage - the world is a mess and Trump is an impossible president for any liberal/progressive government to deal with, especially when they themselves are leading a country so reliant on the US in terms of their economy and defense.
Click to expand...
The flip flopping is key, they haven’t shown any conviction. Foreign policy wise Starmer has done ok, domestically they have been their own worst enemies. As soon as they did anything good, they shot themselves in the foot. The communication has been dreadful. They haven’t been able to challenge the negative stories and it has told.
 
golden_blunder said:
After a decade of absolute chaos left by the Tories, no way any party was going to be able to do any significant change in the short period that they’ve had
Click to expand...

Theres inheriting a mess, and theres inheriting a mess and then making every single bit of that mess even worse. Theyve been shown up at every turn and everybody saw it coming with the calibre of the cabinet picks. Nobody can pretend its a surprise nor can they lay blame elsewhere.

For the last decade UK elections have been about voting against someone rather than voting for someone. Maybe these election results will shake things up and make people pay more attention in future.

Ideally we'd get closer public scrutiny of politics beyond simply voting red or blue because thats what your grandparents did, more accountability, and then maybe some better candidates will appear.
 
What a depressing day. One would hope they would **** it up enough to ruin their chances at the GE, but it doesn’t really seem to matter what they do. Disinformation campaigns and the media are really destroying society.
 
Finished doing the count verification here last night about 3am. It was County and Local here though so the actual sorting and results will happen today. From what I saw it looked like it mirrors what's been happening across the country so far. Massive shift to Reform, Greens picking up more than usual, Tories and Lib Dems with nothing (although Lib Dems seem to be doing ok elsewhere) and Labour doing better than them but obviously haemoroghing support.

I can see absolutely nothing stopping Reform and Farage in as PM (which I said years ago would happen) barring maybe someone like Restore fielding more candidates and splitting their vote further, which in all honesty is even more depressing.

The same people are still angry and bitter about the same issues and still voting for the same false prophets promising to fix it all.

This country is on life support.
 
Zen86 said:
What a depressing day. One would hope they would **** it up enough to ruin their chances at the GE, but it doesn’t really seem to matter what they do. Disinformation campaigns and the media are really destroying society.
Click to expand...
Yes it’s a huge problem. Until that’s resolved, the Steve Bannon playbook will work every single time
 
The number one problem with Starmer and Labour was the amount of U-Turns even before they got into Government. If your party stands for nothing, don't expect it to be well liked. How can you have any confidence in a leader who changes his opinion on a constant basis?

Pushing their policies further right to appeal to the reform crowd meant a big loss in support too.

The political gap is only widening in this country. People are getting more extreme and angry in their views. I don't think people truly understand the damage Reform will do in their every day lives until it's too late. Their policies are honestly dark age material for the working class.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.