Westminster Politics 2024-2029
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
I thought you gave yourself some wiggle room though.
by saying you want the tories to win. As in not addressing the scenario. I read too much into it. That’s fair enough!
No problem! I thought perhaps a bit blunt to answer with one word. I can see how it was not as clear as it could have been.I thought you gave yourself some wiggle room though.
That’s fair enough!
Thanks. I agree with a large proportion of what she says. I don’t agree with a reform pact. You won’t ever agree entirely with a leader.
A lot can change in 3 years. Am under no illusions, and a Tory win is unlikely, but Reform could well implode in that time. We’ve seen how things have quickly changed in the past 2 years.
He needs to be very careful and precise with such statements.
Perhaps his statements about the WASPI women were just 'flavour of the month'?
Presumably Healey is thinking of a leadership bid with his resignation
I doubt it.
Oh dear
Defence Minister Al Carns has resigned. Now he definitely wants to be PM.
Ex soldier. Well done to him for resigning.
The 7th minister to resign in a month.
Starmer has not had any credibility for a long time, it’s got much worse today.
Not just any ex soldier.
Joined up to the Royal Marines aged 19. Got the Military Cross (the reasons are still classified!), and the Distinguished Service Order.
Also decided to climb Everest in 2025 with other former soldiers (while an MP during a recess) and succeeded. Apparently did everything (including travelling to and from the UK) in a week instead of the usual 6-8 weeks acclimatization that is required.
Only resigned his commission to run for Parliament in 2024. Former Conservative voter too.
He's been rumoured as having high ambitions since before he became an MP. I reckon he could be a dark horse in the leadership election, and probably the next PM's defence secretary if he doesn't win.
Was aware of his background, apart from he was a former Tory voter!
Someone I might be able to get behind (and not because of who he may have previously voted for).
To be honest, these are the profile of people needed. The majority of the current cabinet have proved to be useless and need to go. Can’t just recycle the same failures again.
I cannot stand politics so why i keep opening this thread when i see it is beyond me.
Can someone explain to me how two guys can take forever to get to court for breaking a female police officers nose and its all caught of camera and yet they get acquitted.
You chant something and throw a beer can at a officer and its a fast tracked 3 years within a couple of weeks.
And some on here actually defend this prime minister ?
The UK is heading for either to a total dictatorship state or complete anarchy in the very near future.
What on earth is going on ?
Can someone explain to me how two guys can take forever to get to court for breaking a female police officers nose and its all caught of camera and yet they get acquitted.
You chant something and throw a beer can at a officer and its a fast tracked 3 years within a couple of weeks.
And some on here actually defend this prime minister ?
The UK is heading for either to a total dictatorship state or complete anarchy in the very near future.
What on earth is going on ?
The explanation appears to be that after two trials - with two sets of jurors being unable to reach a decision - the circumstances might not be as clear cut as you present them.
I mean, I can offer an explanation as dispassionately as possible, but you are best putting this on ignore if it negatively impacts your mental health. I have done that for several threads and feel much better as a result.
To answer - I assume you are referring to the Manchester Airport assault case? That happened in 2024.
There was a jury trial where one person was convicted on assaulting a police constable, an emergency worker and a member of the public. The jury couldn't reach a verdict in relation to the other charges. There was a retrial and the jury failed to reach a verdict. No one was acquitted.
The CPS has a policy it won't continually seek retrials unless in exceptional circumstances. That policy predates Starmer as PM.
It took time because the defendants pled not guilty. Since 2008 successive governments have cut funding to courts meaning that there are unacceptable delays to cases lasting years now. That is a long term problem and should be addressed.
The individuals sent to jail for violent disorder pled guilty and their sentencing was fast tracked. That explains the differential. This is a longstanding government policy. It also happened after the 2011 riots where people were sent to jail very quickly and for years for posting things inciting disturbances on Facebook or stealing a bottle of water.
Plenty of people are genuinely terrified by the prospect of Reform and Restore getting near power. I am one of them.
Wow
Can he play alongside mainoo in a double pivot too?
Seems like the sort of person who should be part of something in government if that is what he wants to do.
Despite Resigning from this particular circus of course.
If the Conservatives won the next GE, who from the current crop would you see making a competent, effective Cabinet?
Thank you for the reply.
How can a jury fail to reach a verdict when the evidence is right there staring you in the face ?
Failing to reach a verdict seems just another way of saying they were acquitted, its the same outcome.
Can I ask why ?
Farage seems like a grifter but the guy from Restore seems to talk a lot of sense to me.
I am lucky, I live in the countryside in North Wales so we don't get ( yet ) any of the issues that all the big towns and cities seem to be getting but still its horrible to see.
I speak to a mate that is born and bred in Glasgow and he says the whole city is going to implode at some point, how many other cities are heading that way too ?
You cannot really say with a straight face that Starmer and co are doing a good job for the working class of this country
Does that mate live in Glasgow still? My mate moved there from the Peak District. He loves it.
I visit it too and think it's a great city.
A lot of this propaganda about apocalyptic city problems is made up, and specifically targeted at people who don't live in or near them, because the people that do know it's all bollocks.
I'm guessing that you mean Rupert Lowe as the guy from Restore? What sense do you think he's speaking? Why do you think that Restore (or Reform) give a feck about, or will do anything to help, the Working class?
What terrifies me most about Reform (and Restore) is that they have tapped into the justifiable frustrations and despair of people to further their own cause and interests. They are Tories, and much worse, and, if they get into power, will enact a UK version of the horrors of MAGA, stripping the Welfare State and NHS, enriching their mates and benefactors all while continuing to demonise the other with terrible consequences.
I live in Glasgow, also born and bred, and I'd love to know what implosion your mate means. There are plenty of issues in this city, many of them age old as the Glasgow effect is still in full swing, and we suffer from the lack of affordable or council housing.and under-investment as much as anyone (and due to some unique circumastances, mire than many) but, given the rest of your post and proclaimed admiration for Restore it seems that the implication is that "the issues the big towns and cities" is immigration and that's why implosion is imminent.
There are aspects of truth underneath this, where Glasgow is receiving a high volume of immigrants to the City, often directed there by other councils due to our well intentioned policy regarding homelessness. This is causing issues with an already creaking system. It is hard for people who feel abandoned and unheard, whose lives are difficult and who are struggling, to see immigrants be given housing and being supported when they feel they are not. And so, Reform and Restore play on this, Social Media is full of exaggeration and full on lies about the befits and support immigrants receive, the media narrative is driven by the very same people who back Reform to highlight crimes involving immigrants and ignoring the overwhelming majority involving indigenous people, and the cycle continues. They want division and race riots. That's their path to power.
We're now at the point where people are being attacked because of their skin colour and malign foreign influence from Musk, MAGA and even Russia is driving our politics. You may have noticed Rupert Lowe stating how Vance speaks for UK people the other day? I assume Farage and Robinson's circle of influencers and funders is pretty obvious? fecking US millionaires telling us that our cities have no-go areas and this then being propogated by the Reform and their ilk. and believed by our own population is a tragic disgrace.
The Working Class, and others, of this country have been let down. There is no doubt about this. Restore and Reform, pointing at the black guy over there, whilst they deregulate to enrich their mates and undermine our country, are not the answer. They are not friends of the ordinary man. Immigrants are our brothers and sisters, and the ungodly cabal of wealthy elite, Tufton Street class warriors and downright racists are our enemy.
I will reply to the points separately, because they do deal with separate issues, and the point about Restore is much more of a discussion about politics, and this covers the rules of jury trials.
Failing to reach a verdict is legally not the same as an acquittal. If someone is acquitted then they cannot be tried again for the same offence under the rule of double jeopardy (there are rare exceptions but they are very rare and require certain legal tests to be met).
If a verdict is not reached in a case the CPS can try the defendants again. Here is a recent example of this happening and it ending in a conviction:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c931yq8lz19o
As to the point about the jury - the only honest answer is to say we don't know. In England there is an ancient rule that jury deliberations are secret and juries don't give any reasons for their verdict, only the verdict. In addition, every trial has reporting restrictions so the full details of the evidence and cross-examinations are never repeated in the press in full. What you and I have heard is only a fraction of what happened, and we were not there to see the witnesses give evidence and form opinions about whether they were telling the truth.
This is why we only really hear further details about a case when someone is convicted. Reporting restrictions are raised and the press can publish the stories.
None of that means the jury's verdict was correct. It is just that all we can honestly say about a not guilty verdict or failing to reach a verdict is that the jury were not convinced of guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
Starmer has kept increases in minimum wage going to probably unsustainable levels. A lot of analysis out there says we pay the bottom working classes too high a minimum wage. Just check the difference between average Graduate starting salaries and them. Theres a reason businesses and right wingers are crying murder for the growth of the economy, due to legislation like this.
So at least wage wise, he is helping the working class.
One of the realities of our (and many other countries) baseline economy is unless those on the lowest wages have enough income to survive, plus a bit extra to spend, then growth effectively stagnates or toddles along at rates that are barely measurable.
Nailed it. It's not new economics is it, and it's bloody obvious when you think about it.
The problem is inflation of goods and services combined with wage deflation/stagnation above minimum wage i.e. skilled/experienced working class and middle class (if such a thing is still a valid concept even) wages have been savaged since the financial crisis and taxes on them are also too high since Starmer and Reeves haven't had the cojones to try to tax rich tax dodging companies and individuals and instead have just continued on chasing the easy target - salaried employees and self employed small business owners.
That could be true. Either way, saying Starmer hasn’t helped the working class isn’t correct, looking at wages
For those that have jobs eh.
Both ends of the financial spectrum get away with murder, the middle gets hammered for sure.
There's no way to effectively tax the rich - at least none yet that has worked in recent history in a similar country - but some of the ideas knocking around seem like no brainers i.e. get rid of stamp duty and bring in an annual fee instead that is worked out on the value of your home(s). But obviously all the big donors - be they Labour, Green, Reform, whoever, don't want this to ever happen.
Bring back luxury taxes? If someone's buying an Italian supercar to show off how much they earn, tax it at 100%. Then both sides win. The show-off gets to flaunt their wealth even more than previously and all gain from it too.
Also tax personalised number plates at 500%. Just because.
Also tax personalised number plates at 500%. Just because.
Yeah, he still lives in the City centre.
He keeps posting me videos on his phone of the park etc and saying its not safe anymore etc.
The reason wages have been savaged in the EU/UK is not to do with the lack of taxing the Rich, Corporations and not hitting them with enough Regulations. In fact it is because the UK and EU already over tax and over regulate too much as it is. This is seen by how wages in the US has completely run ahead of the UK and the EU since the introduction of the Euro and particularly since 2008.
https://www.allianz.com/en/mediacen...nomic-divide-between-the-us-and-eurozone.html
Let's not both sides this one please. If you can show me all these thriving minimum wage workers living it up who could afford to pay loads more tax, I'll show you the massive property company taking half their salary as rent and paying not very much in tax as a percentage of their earnings, or their massive employer also not paying very much in tax as a percentage of their earnings.
Thanks again Frosty,
Explained it as well as possible given the information out there.
I would be interested in your opinion on Restore when you have 5 minutes, the bloke seems to come across rather well to me but i see quotes saying he is even more far right than Farage which makes him worse apparently.
Look, Im nearly 56 and I may have voted once in my life and that was a long time ago so what I know about politics you could write on the back of a stamp.
Just something that has never appealed to me, watching the politicians act like a bunch of kids on a school day when trying to avoid answering a single question is enough for me.
I look at that and think " christ, these people are running the country "
Not sure why you would discount anyone dodging tax at either end? small business, cash in hand type evasion is estimated in the billions every year. Plus you add in how many people are likely siphoning benefits from the pot that aren't entitled to them. The cause of this is not their fault + I have more sympathy for people with less but the only way you ever sort this is by being consistent in how you administer laws (or you change those laws).
Some parties do have better ideas on this though, like raising the income tax threshold (directly helps poorer people, on real benefit to the rich) and the stamp duty part I mentioned (helps everyone, but more so the poorer).
If the system is shite and there are people who can't afford to pay tax and still have spending money (which of course is taxed every time somebody spends it anyway), then I don't have a problem at all with some cash in hand deals, it's how real things get done frankly and it encourages growth. Entrenching a bad system that breeds economic inequality is the real risk.
It's dickheads like that Reform councillor in Wigan who start businesses, run up debts to HMRC and their suppliers, and then start a very similar business nearby doing a very similar thing before going bust and leaving someone else with the bill that you want to worry about. And people all around the country have been getting away with that sort of shit for years, not the least that knobhead who owns all the property in London with American candy stores and Harry Potter shops and shit in it.
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I hear horror stories about the West Midlands. I worked in a factory 100 yards from a mosque, in an area that is supposed to be a no go area according to the right wing news. I worked nights on my own for awhile maintaining the machines, and never once felt threatened.
I find that if you treat people with respect they will treat you the same way. Of course there are wronguns everywhere, but one bad Indian, or Somalian doesn't take away from the wonderful communities that they build over here or how much they add to the fabric of our society. I for one don't want to end up in a country where everybody is a carbon copy of the person next door to them. Celebrate diversity, don't try to quash it.
I find that if you treat people with respect they will treat you the same way. Of course there are wronguns everywhere, but one bad Indian, or Somalian doesn't take away from the wonderful communities that they build over here or how much they add to the fabric of our society. I for one don't want to end up in a country where everybody is a carbon copy of the person next door to them. Celebrate diversity, don't try to quash it.
And having their employees wages topped up by the state. We need a living wage, not a minimum wage.
Sure, so you want to tax system reformed - I would also like that - but I don't agree with excusing evasion wherever it is. Multiple govs have allowed have allowed this though, it's evidently clear that Tory/Labour and I;d argue Reform now they are just Tory mark II will not change anything.
I agree Starmer has tried hard to help the working population, he has tried different methods to increase the income of the lower rated group, but its not been as effective as he hoped because one persons wage increase becomes another person's tax burden. I think he has attempted to get to a steady state point, but political reaction ( from his own side sometimes) have forced 'U' turns...he is finding you cannot please everyone...all of the time ...and it may come back to bite him!
Anyone got any polling for the Burnham by-election.
I've seen this being floated around:
https://www.joe.co.uk/politics/latest-makerfield-by-election-prediction-after-poll-leaked-536020