https://ifs.org.uk/articles/how-tax-burden-high-when-most-us-are-taxed-so-low
https://www.ft.com/content/75ce2fba-f6df-4d72-a5a4-0a297d50891f?syn-25a6b1a6=1
It's actually a fact. Feel free to apologise
Westminster Politics 2024-2029
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/how-tax-burden-high-when-most-us-are-taxed-so-low
https://www.ft.com/content/75ce2fba-f6df-4d72-a5a4-0a297d50891f?syn-25a6b1a6=1
It's actually a fact. Feel free to apologise
We had QE, printing money to buy government debt from 2009-2022 it pushed the value of a government bond up £100. In 2022 the mini budget pushed up interest rates so much that the BoE stopped QE and dumped massive amounts of it bonds. The price has dropped to £27. The BoE is still dumping bonds now some say this has destabilised the bond markets. Maybe if we went back to QE we could stabilise the bond markets once again?
Cheers Wibble. I hope you are your family are well?Great post Frosty.
I also have a much shorter version
Debt serves a purpose. Which should be for capital investment, or for short term emergencies.
It should not be used to fund day to day activities, and that applies as much to individuals as it does business or government.
For far too long government has increased debt to fund spending.
No chance, look above to see who I want taxed, not the public, entities richer than that.https://ifs.org.uk/articles/how-tax-burden-high-when-most-us-are-taxed-so-low
https://www.ft.com/content/75ce2fba-f6df-4d72-a5a4-0a297d50891f?syn-25a6b1a6=1
It's actually a fact. Feel free to apologise
If you want to apologise, go ahead
What are those?
I don't think you understand how it would work.
Or tax people, especially big corporations, at an appropriate level?
Interesting that they are increasing debt while these ultra high earners are putting the money they saved from taxes into the banks that the governments are borrowing from
The pay 29% of income tax but hold 48% of all wealth. For them to be paying more in real terms they would have to be paying 49% of all income tax.https://ifs.org.uk/articles/how-tax-burden-high-when-most-us-are-taxed-so-low
https://www.ft.com/content/75ce2fba-f6df-4d72-a5a4-0a297d50891f?syn-25a6b1a6=1
It's actually a fact. Feel free to apologise
Remembering that the top 1% pay 28% of income tax.
On UBI i would like to see a major population country try it and show it works before the UK took up the idea.
I thought QE was an emergency measure because of the stupid mystery box full of bad debts from the American subprime mortgage market?
But hold 48% of wealth. They are underpaying.
It's working in Alaska
It was one that lasted for 14 years. It's only since the BoE has started selling it's bonds that the bond market has collapsed.
This is exactly my point
Then we agree.
Yes and I also asked the question, how many of them are there and how much money you will raise by doing so vs £1trn annual spending.
Public sector net debt minus the BOE sheet as a percentage of GDP has been level for a few years now. There's no debt crisis.
Always annoying when this thread descends into daily mail cliches on debt.
Always annoying when this thread descends into daily mail cliches on debt.
The general public will always be a 'sitting target'for multi- level taxation because there are more of them than 'high earners' (sheer weight of numbers); they tend to stay where they are, (we know who and where you are) and over the last couple of decades, have elected governments, who basically either don't know what levers to pull, that won't 'scare the horses'( money lenders), or are busy scrabbling for what in effect is illusive power....the public looks on in exasperation!!
Eventually ... possibly via AI we will be forced towards a wealth based system of taxation.
With the current budget that is true.
It wouldn't be the case if most of the requested extra spending ideas were funded through increased borrowing though.
Always annoying when people try to shut down ideas they don’t like or don’t fit their ideology.
I for one don’t read the daily mail.
Are you going to let us know (fyi) who you voted for at the last GE, and who you would vote for now?
The majority of people are paying lower taxes in real terms than any time in the last 50 years or compared to other European countries though.
Sorry what's your point to go alongside this? This isn't a debt crisis it's QT, sure it has impacts on the money supply and gilt market but that's about it. QE will return at some stage but it's not needed now.
I know this keeps getting reported as tax payers money in some tabloids but it's not. It's a fabricated money supply being tightened, left in the market and cancelled off.
I don't doubt it..... the point I was making was that within the general public those who are liable to pay tax are a 'sitting targets' for general taxation policies, no government can or will ignore it.
However, attempts at taxing the very high earners always disappoints, either on the 'take', or ends up costing more than it yields, because those at that end of the tax spectrum have the wherewithal to take care of themselves.
Those at the bottom end are also less likely to be directly taxed on earnings, if they are in receipt of some benefits, but still are affected by such as VAT, etc.
It's the middle group (largest) of earners that cannot (easily) escape the clutches of the tax authorities.
Eh? Pretty sure gilt prices have not fallen 73% since 2022 and the BoE did the opposite to what you said after the Truss mini-Budget.
Starmer should put that on the side of his bus. Lowest level of direct taxation for median earners in 50+ years, but tax burden as a percentage of GDP at 70+ years.
It's arguably specious to compare tax rate to much of Europe, given house price affordability, lifespan and quality of life higher in many euro states. Pensions among lowest in UK too.
Is Alaska a country, no, does it have a major population, no.
It doesn't have a UBI it issues grants for residents based on oil revenue.
Good look living in the UK on our oil revenue divided by our population.
Lets see France or Germany introduce it and see how it goes then I would consider it if it worked.
@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg you seem to have been quite active today, responding to everyone except, yet again, me.
I’m starting to wonder if I’ve been blocked / ignored, or if you’re just deliberately ignoring the question that blows your go-to ‘silver bullet’ out of the water?
I’m starting to wonder if I’ve been blocked / ignored, or if you’re just deliberately ignoring the question that blows your go-to ‘silver bullet’ out of the water?
I never said Alaska was a country, I was just showing that it can work.
And I'm not talking about oil revenue, I'm talking about AI taking jobs and the UBI coming from there.
Loads of economists are saying that this is the way forward, that it can be done and it would be successful.
Something is going to have to happen to redistribute the wealth, otherwise there will be issues.
@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg , just incase you have blocked him
Haha! Yes. Sorry Jer, I’ve not seen your messages as blocked.
I do like discussion, and I’m happy often being a lone voice on some matters, but I’m not here for arguments and i presume I felt like it was going that way previously. Have a good one.
Difference being the Tories took debt to 100% of GDP, with no investment in assets, just PPE contracts for their mates, and the Liz Truss disaster budget.
A proper socialist government would've used thay money to invest in assets for the country e.g social housing and public services. Which would've grown in value and also solved the housing crisis. Possibly even reduced the rise of the far right.
I do wonder where the ‘argument’ would be in asking about the practicalities and cost of wiping out benefits for huge chunks of the population?
I agree with this.
The Right thrives on inequality, not just here but across the globe and historically.
The problem is that the people pulling the strings of the Right are generally those that are benefiting from inequality.
Well fecking said!
Which is why nobody ever tries it.
The left also thrives on inequality, but is shit at messaging.