Westminster Politics

[Marcelinho87]

My issue with politics and politicians in general is that there is no accountability... they can come in and say and do what they like and there is no consequence or repercussions to their actions.

Manifestos, words, speeches and all the other bollocks should be held against them in a legal sense.

 

[fergieisold]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...austerity-behind-130000-deaths-uk-ippr-report


Or even on the lower end, what about the UN report ?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...sal-credit-report-philip-alston-a8924576.html

And your reason for believe there will be more funding, considering the last decade ?

Look I get why people like yourself vote Tory, I'm asking you what you think of the outcomes of tory policy.

I'm not convinced by the direct link to austerity. I like this site, it calls out a lot of claims on both sides!

https://fullfact.org/health/130000-preventable-deaths-austerity/

Tory Policy has directly put more money in my back pocket through lower taxes. And it is has (shock horror) also been the raising of the personal tax allowance threshold that has directly helped the less privileged.

Lower taxes, record numbers of people employed has been two advantages for me.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/...the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

The Tories being fiscally prudent is bullshit. They do tax less in general. Of course, in the favour of the rich and business.
We can argue about the impact on the less privileged. They get fecked over by the Tories. Every single time.

It is not just in favour of the rich. The less well off have been directly helped by Tory tax cuts.

 

[Abizzz]

He's as incapable of standing/walking upright as he is of keeping his word?

*No one except George Soros

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Dominic Raab as Foreign Secretary would be a laugh.

Arriving at Dover ferryport he asks: "What time is the train to Shanghai?"

 

[Volumiza]

Dominic Raab as Foreign Secretary would be a laugh.

Arriving at Dover ferryport he asks: "What time is the train to Shanghai?"

 

[Volumiza]

My issue with politics and politicians in general is that there is no accountability... they can come in and say and do what they like and there is no consequence or repercussions to their actions.

Manifestos, words, speeches and all the other bollocks should be held against them in a legal sense.

Now wouldn't that be interesting!

 

[Dobba]

My issue with politics and politicians in general is that there is no accountability... they can come in and say and do what they like and there is no consequence or repercussions to their actions.

Manifestos, words, speeches and all the other bollocks should be held against them in a legal sense.

Our esteemed press hold them to account day in, day out.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Our esteemed press hold them to account day in, day out.

The press that these wankers write for? Doesn't Mr PM have his own column?

Press is as bent as them.

 

[finneh]

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say except, the monetary settlement is peanuts in the grand scheme of things and the government know it. The EU knew what they were doing when they set the order of the timetable and they'd guessed correctly the attitude of the UK government's negotiating stance.
A FTA is not going to solve the GFA. What is incompatible is leaving the CU and SM and maintaining the GFA. Common sense means they you can't have both but both major parties are trying to say you can which is where the unicorns come in.
And I doubt if the 4 freedoms would ever be negotiable, there is no price for that.

The monetary settlement isn't hugely significant (but certainly isn't peanuts), but the difference between the EU starting positions of €120b vs the UK starting position (nothing owed and the EU having to pay us our share of assets) is obviously of huge significance. Hence the protracted negotiations and the agreement somewhere in the middle after years.

The FTA will have to solve the GFA issue. The entire purpose of the backstop being temporary as stated by both sides is that once an agreement is finalised the backstop will cease to exist. Every comment by both sides is working towards this. The method of achieving this is obviously complicated, hence the fact that the EU can't agree a time limit and the UK can't agree to it being indefinite as it splits the union. The truth is that all parties have essentially agreed that even a no deal scenario could not compromise the GFA, such is its importance. This isn't to say that everything has to be identical to how it is now of course, things could change but still be in line with the principles of the GFA.

I doubt if the 4 freedoms would ever be negotiable, there is no price for that.

That would be a question of cost. I agree that it wouldn't be practical in the sense that the cost wouldn't ever be worth the benefit. It would have to be a figure that would be large enough to ensure no other country would ever want to seek the same deal. E.G. £150b per year rising with GDP - we'd be able to cherry pick whatever freedoms we desired at that cost (not that we'd want to). Somewhat pointless of course as it's completely theoretical

If the WA is ever accepted, then the real problems of Brexit will kick in

This is absolutely true, simply because it's not an agreement in the first place. It's an agreement on the cost of a product, before we have negotiated the product we're purchasing.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[Rolandofgilead]

I'm not convinced by the direct link to austerity. I like this site, it calls out a lot of claims on both sides!

https://fullfact.org/health/130000-preventable-deaths-austerity/

Tory Policy has directly put more money in my back pocket through lower taxes. And it is has (shock horror) also been the raising of the personal tax allowance threshold that has directly helped the less privileged.

Lower taxes, record numbers of people employed has been two advantages for me.



It is not just in favour of the rich. The less well off have been directly helped by Tory tax cuts.

From someone that not only has had a home repossessed but is very very close to the poverty line despite working full time.

Allow me to say, absolute bollocks.

This kind of crap just shows how truly out of touch and unaware Tories and their voters are about social economic problems.

Universal credit proved that, fecking disgusting policy.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The monetary settlement isn't hugely significant (but certainly isn't peanuts), but the difference between the EU starting positions of €120b vs the UK starting position (nothing owed and the EU having to pay us our share of assets) is obviously of huge significance. Hence the protracted negotiations and the agreement somewhere in the middle after years.

The FTA will have to solve the GFA issue. The entire purpose of the backstop being temporary as stated by both sides is that once an agreement is finalised the backstop will cease to exist. Every comment by both sides is working towards this. The method of achieving this is obviously complicated, hence the fact that the EU can't agree a time limit and the UK can't agree to it being indefinite as it splits the union. The truth is that all parties have essentially agreed that even a no deal scenario could not compromise the GFA, such is its importance. This isn't to say that everything has to be identical to how it is now of course, things could change but still be in line with the principles of the GFA.

That would be a question of cost. I agree that it wouldn't be practical in the sense that the cost wouldn't ever be worth the benefit. It would have to be a figure that would be large enough to ensure no other country would ever want to seek the same deal. E.G. £150b per year rising with GDP - we'd be able to cherry pick whatever freedoms we desired at that cost (not that we'd want to). Somewhat pointless of course as it's completely theoretical

This is absolutely true, simply because it's not an agreement in the first place. It's an agreement on the cost of a product, before we have negotiated the product we're purchasing.

There have been various figures bandied about, none of which we really know and if the UK left in November without a deal the figure would be less than the supposed 39bn because the UK wouldn't need to pay for the transition period.
A FTA still involves hard border until such time as everything could be monitored in an alternative way. A system that doesn't exist.
If an agreement (post WA) is come to then the only way I see that is if Northern Ireland at least remains in the SM and CU even if the rest of the UK doesn't.

 

[fergieisold]

From someone that not only has had a home repossessed but is very very close to the poverty line despite working full time.

Allow me to say, absolute bollocks.

This kind of crap just shows how truly out of touch and unaware Tories and their voters are about social economic problems.

Universal credit proved that, fecking disgusting policy.

That sucks! I don’t know your personal circumstances so impossible to really reply with anything useful. I guess the question is what would your ideal government do for you that stopped the shit you had to deal with?

 

[Guy Incognito]

How on earth are Raab and Patel getting senior jobs?

 

[Marcelinho87]

Record number of people employed

Those sweet, sweet 0 hour contracts eh.

 

[Virgil]

Johnson just lied himself to the top of the UK. If EU officials receive the same level of scrutiny as the British political class then the EU project is doomed. Because it seems anyone can become PM these days, even failed journalists. And the journalists of the day ironically see nothing wrong with a PM who invented stories as a journalist... wonder why.

Luckily not every country is run by Murdoch and friends.

Well in the blue corner we have Mr Johnson and in the red corner Ms von der Leyen (seems anyone can become EU president these days) ....... both of whom are as as bent as 9 bob notes. In all seriousness I fail to see how anyone can hold up politicians from other European nations as being less elitist, and more honourable than those in the UK. I would not give houseroom to any of them. The lot of them are rogues and charlatans who are only interested in staying on the gravy train. Still we get the politicians we deserve

Countries literally have vetoes on new member states joining, if Britain doesn't want it to enlarge then it doesn't have to; indeed our exit makes that more likely.

Surely I am not reading your right in assuming that should we remain in the EU that we should exercise our veto on new member states joining irrespective of merit. Bloody hell what is the point of the UK being in the club if we are going to continue to be reluctant participants. Stay in and continue to stamp our feet and refuse to participate that's as daft as leaving without a deal. At least IMHO. And it does not address the other issues in respect of development or evolution. If we remain do we oppose the creation of a European Army? Do we move towards joining the Euro? Do we commit to becoming a Schengen area? And thats just 3 off the top of my head. Not so easy is it for a clear picture to emerge when what we mean by remain is probed a wee bit deeper.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I'm not convinced by the direct link to austerity. I like this site, it calls out a lot of claims on both sides!

https://fullfact.org/health/130000-preventable-deaths-austerity/

Tory Policy has directly put more money in my back pocket through lower taxes. And it is has (shock horror) also been the raising of the personal tax allowance threshold that has directly helped the less privileged.

Lower taxes, record numbers of people employed has been two advantages for me.

It is not just in favour of the rich. The less well off have been directly helped by Tory tax cuts.

It is clear that the poorest have not seen income rise in real terms.
https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk
Even if they had, it entirely depends on your definition of helps and this is ideologically based.
The gap between rich and poor continues to grow, the social support network continues to collapse impacting the most vulnerable, ideologically driven monthly benefits payments based on a concept of thrift and budgeting continue to fail in the practical real world environment. Redistribution of wealth is not a position that the Tory party support. This is to the detriment of society as a whole, irrespective of income.
I believe in redistribution of wealth (and say this from a high tax bracket) and vote accordingly (my country has higher income tax on higher earners than England). This puts me fundamentally at odds with the Tory party (and this is but one reason). There are those who believe that low tax and small government is good. I consider the latter anti-society and the former pro-society.
Tories would disagree with my position no doubt. Some do so on genuine principle (disagreeable principle to me, but principle nonetheless), some do so because they care about short term fiscal gain. Irrespective, there is certainly no evidence to support the claim that the Tories are a more economically successful party...at least not for those who are not wealthy (see Brexit) and I consider their social policy, at best, reckless.

 

[Hephaestus]

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[Full bodied red]

Well in the blue corner we have Mr Johnson and in the red corner Ms von der Leyen (seems anyone can become EU president these days) ....... both of whom are as as bent as 9 bob notes. In all seriousness I fail to see how anyone can hold up politicians from other European nations as being less elitist, and more honourable than those in the UK. I would not give houseroom to any of them. The lot of them are rogues and charlatans who are only interested in staying on the gravy train. Still we get the politicians we deserve

Surely I am not reading your right in assuming that should we remain in the EU that we should exercise our veto on new member states joining irrespective of merit. Bloody hell what is the point of the UK being in the club if we are going to continue to be reluctant participants. Stay in and continue to stamp our feet and refuse to participate that's as daft as leaving without a deal. At least IMHO. And it does not address the other issues in respect of development or evolution. If we remain do we oppose the creation of a European Army? Do we move towards joining the Euro? Do we commit to becoming a Schengen area? And thats just 3 off the top of my head. Not so easy is it for a clear picture to emerge remain is probed a wee bit deeper is it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-policy-veto-qualified-majority-a9006686.html

What veto ??

 

[Smores]

Patel as home secretary is as bad as it gets. What a disaster.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Anyone looked at the OP recently?

 

[Buster15]

How on earth are Raab and Patel getting senior jobs?

Why do you think.

 

[Sweet Square]

The only reason we ended up with austerity in the first place is because of your lot, so don't start crying about it now.

Oh, sorry, Blair/Brown were Tory light, weren't they?

Neoliberalism - Google it.

 

[balaks]

Patel as home secretary is as bad as it gets. What a disaster.

She of the opinion that the death penalty should return. Going back to the dark ages.

 

[Buster15]

Without Brexit, the austerity measures would not have lasted as long. So much time and money has been wasted on Brexit, that everything else, the things that actually matter, have all taken a back seat.

Nothing of the sort.
The austerity programme had been in place since 2010 which even with my awful maths was about 6 years ago.
This government completely conned the public that they HAD to savagely cut public services in order to balance the books.
Well have the books been balanced. Of course not. It was never going to happen and now, after all that hardship, balancing the books has been kicked into touch.
What a surprise.
And why would you believe that Brexit has prolonged the austerity programme. The economy has been largely resilient to the predicted slump.
But for those who say Project Fear was completely wrong, we haven't left yet.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[DOTA]

Heartbroken for Liz.

 

[Damien]

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[Sweet Square]

I'm not convinced by the direct link to austerity. I like this site, it calls out a lot of claims on both sides!

https://fullfact.org/health/130000-preventable-deaths-austerity/

It doesn't dismiss the claims at all. Also

Full Fact was founded in 2009 by Michael Samuel (Chair) a Conservative Party donor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Fact

Tory Policy has directly put more money in my back pocket through lower taxes. And it is has (shock horror) also been the raising of the personal tax allowance threshold that has directly helped the less privileged.

Lower taxes, record numbers of people employed has been two advantages for me.



It is not just in favour of the rich. The less well off have been directly helped by Tory tax cuts.

Genuine question if thats ok - what is your line for work(You don't have to be too specific) ?

 

[sun_tzu]

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Interesting... He said he was pro HS2 and lending more to boost infra schemes... Even starting hs3 at the same time as HS2
Wonder if he will be given that freedom or if his wing will be clipped?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Is this Boris supposed to be hated or loved? Most of this thread is painting him as an idiot yet we have #borisday in the title as if he is celebrated.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Poor old Foxy, never got his hundreds of imaginary trade deals.

Wonder who the new Trade secretary will be - Davis would be a good laugh.

 

[Damien]

Is this Boris supposed to be hated or loved? Most of this thread is painting him as an idiot yet we have #borisday in the title as if he is celebrated.

#BorisDay was the top trend on twitter yesterday preceding the results. The title is taking the piss out of that.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Is this Boris supposed to be hated or loved? Most of this thread is painting him as an idiot yet we have #borisday in the title as if he is celebrated.

Que sera sera.

 

[Wumminator]

I know it should have sunk in by now, but I still feel absolutely sick about this.

Something that is so clearly corrupt being rewarded. How many times do I have to sit and watch blatant cheaters be rewarded? Absolute scum of society be lifted up to the very pinnacle.

It just doesn’t make sense to me. Why even bother? Links with racism? Doesn’t matter. Leader who is a massive prick but the press love because he is a “lovable fool?”.

It makes me physically sick.

EDIT: FFS meant to post this in the Liverpool Champions league winning thread.

 

[altodevil]

I know it should have sunk in by now, but I still feel absolutely sick about this.

Something that is so clearly corrupt being rewarded. How many times do I have to sit and watch blatant cheaters be rewarded? Absolute scum of society be lifted up to the very pinnacle.

It just doesn’t make sense to me. Why even bother? Links with racism? Doesn’t matter. Leader who is a massive prick but the press love because he is a “lovable fool?”.

It makes me physically sick.

EDIT: FFS meant to post this in the Liverpool Champions league winning thread.

Post of the Year

 

[esmufc07]

Patel is such a wank politician.

 

[Damien]

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[Hammerfell]

Anyone who voted for this should be ashamed.

 

[Full bodied red]

It doesn't dismiss the claims at all. Also





Genuine question if thats ok - what is your line for work(You don't have to be too specific) ?

Can I butt in ??

If you want to complain about Full Fact being founded by a Conservatibve Party donor, then we should also make it clear that IPPR was founded is still ' run ' by Clive Hollick and his wife - a Labour Supporter and Donor who was appointed to The Lords by Bliar.

Commercial pilot - now retired ( age barred from commercial flying ) and now I part own an Airline / Logistics Company with a T/O of €67 million in 2018, most of that generated from West and Central Africa.