Westminster Politics

chris123

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I'm no fan of Starmer but my god our media are just depressingly shit. They've been running this story for two weeks, and the best they can come up with is Starmer's team setting aside an hour in their schedule for a curry during campaigning?
 

TheGame

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I'm no fan of Starmer but my god our media are just depressingly shit. They've been running this story for two weeks, and the best they can come up with is Starmer's team setting aside an hour in their schedule for a curry during campaigning?
The Tories are desperate and are just throwing any lies around and their media hacks are banging the drum. It’s like fecking North Korea with the propaganda.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Its not the medium, its the message!

When I was a member of the Labour party, great effort was made not to talk over, or to the back of peoples heads, not to flog the dogma, to appreciate the issues (even when they seemed trivial) what the people wanted to talk about not what we were selling, it was in effect 'cold calling' because we knocked on peoples doors even when there wasn't an election of some sort going on. It started to work in the sixties (perhaps it was 'flower power?) and Harold Wilson formed a government initially with a majority of four. Then Vietnam kicked off big time and Harold refused to get involved, from then on everything went 'wonky', (always a suspicion of dirty tricks and disinformation from the Democrats in the US, but never really proved).
After that the Labour party went totally 'politically ape shit', left and right wings, battling each other (quite often in public) parties within a party. Even then, the whats now called'red wall' constituents, stayed true, but (and this is purely personal) knocking on doors became less and less effective. We were losing the soul of the party and replacing with political dogma and worrying about the worlds problems, but not our own people's day to day lives. That's when I left.

The Tories eventually gave Labour a break and committed political suicide over Maggie; however Labour still went further away from its natural base even when it was in power. Blair talked a good game had some success in NHS waiting list s but got into a lot of problems with its grass roots (on both wings). However Brexit and immigration were the final hurdles where Labour fell out with its long term supporters.

Yes there is a media bias, but by letting it become the scapegoat for Labour's failure it doesn't bode well for the future, the media is not going to change anytime soon!
Unfortunately the message gets changed by the medium!

They certainly need to offer an alternative to the Tories and move the debate away from Tory talking points for a start. The current strategy is playing into right wing hands. Look what has happened with "centrist" Macron in France, the far right are rising.
 

TwoSheds

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Seems fairly open and shut on the face of it. Laura Koonsburg will doubtless eke out the last drops of scandal from her withered lips for another few weeks before Starmer is cleared.
 

Maticmaker

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Unfortunately the message gets changed by the medium!
That's because the message is often faulty/weak/trying to face both ways at once (like Brexit) and it needs a plan/policy behind it.

Some of the early ideas floated by Labour prior to last election found some resonance, but when that feedback came back positive, the Labour leadership went barmy and started offering 'everything in a similar vein' instead of cementing the core/big ideas (should never be more than two at once) it started promising the earth and subsequently it lost the plot with many groups of voters.

For the 'red wall' stalwarts, (who had never been convinced by Jeremy anyway) it was another example of Labour being all 'mouth and trousers'.

I suspect you and I will never see 'eye-to-eye' on what Labour should be doing, but after my personal experience (in and out of the party) I am convinced it was the party that left the people, and not the other way around and unfortunately I don't see any reunions on the horizon!
 

Compton22

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Seems fairly open and shut on the face of it. Laura Koonsburg will doubtless eke out the last drops of scandal from her withered lips for another few weeks before Starmer is cleared.
Which was undoubtedly their intention from the start to distract from their poor local election results
 

Longshanks

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The lib dems results in the local elections is promising. Took lots a seats of the tories and even gave Labour a few bloody noses. Be nice to have a credible third option again. Ed davey is slowly and quietly restoring there reputation and they have run some very good targeted campaigns, the public are definitely responding.

Labour did ok, very well in the big cities but again out into middle England they just really aren't very palatable to the people of middle England, the in-fighting and at times self-entititlement being there biggest problems.

Tories had a disaster 450 odd seats lost is unbelievably poor. How they are trying to make out its anything but is laughable. The public is definitely turning on them there is hope for the next GE. No matter how bad they are though there will also be some who vote for them, in many areas they could put a pig with a blue Rossette pinned on it and it would get voted in.

And a mention for the greens who had some great results they will be a big threat to the main parties in certain areas, no doubt.

My conclusion is come the next GE Labour will desperately need the lib dems and the greens to take seats of the tories in areas they can't win. And then they really have got to win seats in area where they have a good chance. Basically they need to aggressively target the right seats and perhaps not campaign as aggressively in other areas where other non tory parties have a better chance.

I can't see a Labour majority whatever happens but Labour could be the biggest party and then they will be free to lead a coalition to start righting the wrongs of 14 years of tory rule.
 

Fluctuation0161

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That's because the message is often faulty/weak/trying to face both ways at once (like Brexit) and it needs a plan/policy behind it.
Yes, I don't think we will agree here. I still think the party message is skewed or obscured by constant barage of irrelevant side stories. The recent hit jobs on Starmer "beergate" are a prime example. Not that I think Starmer has much of a message right now! But Corbyn did and got much more of this type of treatment in the media.

Some of the early ideas floated by Labour prior to last election found some resonance, but when that feedback came back positive, the Labour leadership went barmy and started offering 'everything in a similar vein' instead of cementing the core/big ideas (should never be more than two at once) it started promising the earth and subsequently it lost the plot with many groups of voters.
I agree. It wasn't savvy enough and failed to build on the early success.

Possibly due to resources being focused on firefighting the many media smears.

For the 'red wall' stalwarts, (who had never been convinced by Jeremy anyway) it was another example of Labour being all 'mouth and trousers'.

I suspect you and I will never see 'eye-to-eye' on what Labour should be doing, but after my personal experience (in and out of the party) I am convinced it was the party that left the people, and not the other way around and unfortunately I don't see any reunions on the horizon!
We may not see eye to eye on Labour, it seems we are approaching it from different angles. But we do have in common having little faith in the current Labour leadership.

I think my point is that alot of public perception is driven by the media, who told people regularly that Labour were "all mouth and no trousers". Yet when you look at the amount this Tory government has spent on PPE contracts to "friends" which dont supply and billions on track and trace etc. It shows the resources are there, if only they are invested into assets and long term success of the country.
 

Sweet Square

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Call him Mr. Starmer call him Mr. Wrong
Call him Mr. Rules
Call him Mr. Starmer call him Mr. Wrong
Call him insane
He'd say: I know what I want
And I want it now
It’s mad that they gone all in on this. I guess it’s the only option when they have no decent policy. Everything about the story just gets more crazy


6 detectives!
 

Fluctuation0161

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It’s mad that they gone all in on this. I guess it’s the only option when they have no decent policy. Everything about the story just gets more crazy


6 detectives!
Yet if your house gets burgled in Manchester you are lucky to see one normal officer within 48hrs.
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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I'm not really a fan of Sturgeon (and I despised her predecessor Salmond), but the SNP's continued electoral success, despite being in power in Holyrood for 15 years, is amazing. From the 2011 onwards, they've finished top of the charts in Scotland in every type of election, 3 Scottish elections, 3 general elections, 3 local elections, and 2 European elections.

My personal opinion, as someone who doesn't live in Scotland so of course isn't an expert on the matter, was that the best outcome for Scotland was remaining in both the UK and the EU. That was also the opinion of most people there who turned to up to vote in the 2014 and 2016 referendums (all 32 Scottish counting areas voted to remain in the EU). So given that they've literally been dragged out of the EU against the will of most of their voters, I definitely sympathise with the case for Scottish independence. That would clearly been considerably weaker now had the UK as a whole voted to remain in 2016.

It has seemed that in general elections, Labour have arrogantly expected pro-independence supporters to vote for them, on the proviso that there will either be a Tory or Labour led administration in Westminster. That probably did happen in the past when the SNP only expected to win a handful of seats in Westminster, but nowadays if you're a pro-independence supporter, a Labour minority administration reliant on the SNP to get a Queen's speech through is far more desirable than a Labour majority government.
 

Buster15

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Yet if your house gets burgled in Manchester you are lucky to see one normal officer within 48hrs.
And that just about sums up the state of policing in the UK doesn't it.
In the event that they find he did break COVID restrictions, he must resign.
But in the event that they find he has not, it is only right that the Tory MPs who pressurised Durham Police to reopen investigations should be done for wasting Police time, which is an offence.
 

Smores

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It’s mad that they gone all in on this. I guess it’s the only option when they have no decent policy. Everything about the story just gets more crazy


6 detectives!
I suppose that's their justification for dragging this out for weeks covered. If challenged they'll just claim they're being apolitical by treating both Tory and Labour the same.

Given their prior statements I'd bet on a fine being issued. They seemingly care more about being 'apolitical' than proper process.
 

Simbo

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It’s mad that they gone all in on this. I guess it’s the only option when they have no decent policy. Everything about the story just gets more crazy


6 detectives!
Its mad how easily it works too. People so easily swallow the bait.

Tories just took a hammering yet they've still got half the country discussing whether STARMER should resign over something/nothing.
 

cafecillos

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Hate Corbyn as much as you want, but there are very few things a person can say about anything that are more demonstrably wrong than "Corbyn got such an easy ride from the right wing press". I find it disturbingly mind-blowing that someone could genuinely believe that.
 

Maticmaker

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We may not see eye to eye on Labour, it seems we are approaching it from different angles. But we do have in common having little faith in the current Labour leadership.
TBH I have no faith in the party anymore, its too fragmented and it doesn't matter to me what sort of leader Labour have, a left winger, like Corbyn, would never get elected (assuming your media bias is correct) and the centre-right (if that's what Starmer & Co are) even if managing to get elected, would get nothing done for the majority of the populace, because the party overall has no real 'common ground/understanding of it's natural constituents 'wants or aspirations', nor even a true common purpose (which unites) except hating/ousting the Tories and that is not what people want to hear. With so many people still not bothering to vote and their 'red wall bedrock' votes departing Labour have turned themselves into a permanent opposition; in terms of ideas, in terms of ever reaching the parts of the country they use to reach and they have lost Scotland, possibly for at least another generation (although some movement in recent Local results). In my view in Scotland they should be after the non-Tory (Keep the Union) vote.

Labour is (after these local elections)being seen to be doing well in many big cities, so feels 'its getting there'; the trouble is to 'get there' its going to have to move resources out of the big cities into the smaller towns, to do the real 'levelling -up' which it should have been attempting back in the Blair days when it had the big majorities... but its a massive job, which even if they attempt it will decimate their voter base in the big cities... between a rock and a hard place, just about sums it up.


Yet when you look at the amount this Tory government has spent on PPE contracts to "friends" which don't supply and billions on track and trace etc.
Yes admittedly that was not good, especially as it didn't really help; but you know in a weird way many people almost expect this of the Tories, 'jobs for the boys' and 'mates rates' are phrases/ideas found in almost any strata of the British public, not just in Tory circles.
The problem is the whole government procurement system is a complete 'ba**'s up' and has been for many years, stretching back to the 'Blue-Streak' missile debacle in the early sixties when contractors had to repay £M's. Through to the 'crap' weapons and armaments and military vehicles sent out to protect our troops in various conflicts over many years, much of them when Labour was running the show.
The truth is all Governments waste/or are profligate with money, the Tories probably more than Labour.... but only really because they have been in power longer.
 

Sweet Square

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I suppose that's their justification for dragging this out for weeks covered. If challenged they'll just claim they're being apolitical by treating both Tory and Labour the same.

Given their prior statements I'd bet on a fine being issued. They seemingly care more about being 'apolitical' than proper process.
Agree. Although I will be surprised if Starmer gets a fine as it mean he really would have to resign.

Indeed!
:lol:


Tories just took a hammering yet they've still got half the country discussing whether STARMER should resign over something/nothing.
Tbf Labour did the same with Boris party gate stuff or rishi sunak eating some birthday cake. There was a million other important things they could have focused on. And we all laughed at the right wing press for saying we should be instead be talking about more important things like the war in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]