Another step in our march back into the Feudal era by the looks of it.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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Those unelected bureaucrats in Cardiff and Edinburgh have been dictating the affairs of England for too long!
There's a school of thought that Scotland doesn't 'pay its way' and therefore England subsidises them that right wing voters seem to hold on to (but in honesty I think it's mostly just a spurned lover thing: 'fine, if Scotland doesn't want us then we don't want them either!').
Came here to ask ye about that, seeing there's no thread bumped
Net positive IMO, HKers seem to be a highly educated and Democratic bunch
Yeah definitely will be, a few are looking into the hub spaces as there is people out there who don't/can't work from home and businesses can use them at a lower rate than keeping an office open. Oh there's plenty of them out there as well hugely frustrating to deal with!
Thanks, you to...hopefully back to some normality over the next 12 months or so.
The Barnett formula used by the treasury and devised in the late 70's that relates how block grants are worked out for Scotland, Wales and NI is the source of discontent for many as these three nations always seem to get more per head than in England.
There will be some but I doubt there will be huge numbers ... certainly nothing like the potential 3 million people which would be over 10 years normal net migration figures at once
I was there just last summer to visit a friend (who actually was thinking to live to the UK even before these laws were being passed). Lovely place, as is China also to be fair.
Would love to see even more HKese in the UK.
Of course, 3 million would be insane (and over half of HK's population I think?) . For one thing, my friend says quite a few would prefer to stick in Asia so many of his friends and colleagues are looking at Singapore/Taiwan /Japan etc.
Definitely quite a few who are considering the UK though from the sounds of it.
some will - I suspect most will stay where they are though as moving family to another country without a guaranteed job etc is a risk most wont take (or at least that is my gut feel)
I'm still of the view a portion of the English population are basically some form of peasantry
Cheers. I've always hear little bits here but I'm surprised by the polling.
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Yet another scandal in the gov’s handling of the pandemic. Looks like the government is even withholding the true data from local councils
English water companies have handed more than £2bn a year on average to shareholders since they were privatised three decades ago, according to analysis for the Guardian.
The payouts in dividends to shareholders of parent companies between 1991 and 2019 amount to £57bn – nearly half the sum they spent on maintaining and improving the country’s pipes and treatment plants in that period.
When Margaret Thatcher sold off the water industry in 1989, the government wrote off all debts. But according to the analysis by David Hall and Karol Yearwood of the public services international research unit of Greenwich University, the nine privatised companies in England have amassed debts of £48bn over the past three decades – almost as much as the sum paid out to shareholders. The debt cost them £1.3bn in interest last year. Hall concludes the companies have borrowed to pay dividends, rather than to invest in infrastructure projects. The £123bn of capital expenditure spent by the companies has all been financed by customer bills, the analysis states.
Scottish Water, which is publicly owned, has invested nearly 35% more per household in infrastructure since 2002 than the privatised English water companies, according to the analysis. It charges users 14% less and does not pay dividends.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...privatised-water-firms-dividends-shareholders
The payouts in dividends to shareholders of parent companies between 1991 and 2019 amount to £57bn – nearly half the sum they spent on maintaining and improving the country’s pipes and treatment plants in that period.
When Margaret Thatcher sold off the water industry in 1989, the government wrote off all debts. But according to the analysis by David Hall and Karol Yearwood of the public services international research unit of Greenwich University, the nine privatised companies in England have amassed debts of £48bn over the past three decades – almost as much as the sum paid out to shareholders. The debt cost them £1.3bn in interest last year. Hall concludes the companies have borrowed to pay dividends, rather than to invest in infrastructure projects. The £123bn of capital expenditure spent by the companies has all been financed by customer bills, the analysis states.
Scottish Water, which is publicly owned, has invested nearly 35% more per household in infrastructure since 2002 than the privatised English water companies, according to the analysis. It charges users 14% less and does not pay dividends.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...privatised-water-firms-dividends-shareholders
So about 60p per person per week not a scandelous profit for all the capital spend required id say
This was discussed extensively in the covid thread yesterday, it's not even about withholding data here. The data on pillar two is about as much use as a hole in a condom and has been since 22nd May.
At today's PMQ, I got the impression that Boris has changed tack slightly and was more on the offensive.
It didn't work and yet again, his performance was an embarrassing mix of lies and bullshit.
Yesterday, he was championing his so called new deal of £5bn build build and build.
Today, that figure had magically jumped to £650bn.
Poor thing had become totally confused by the surgical strikes from Starmer.
Maybe it was due to hunger from his new diet. But he was all over the place.
It didn't work and yet again, his performance was an embarrassing mix of lies and bullshit.
Yesterday, he was championing his so called new deal of £5bn build build and build.
Today, that figure had magically jumped to £650bn.
Poor thing had become totally confused by the surgical strikes from Starmer.
Maybe it was due to hunger from his new diet. But he was all over the place.
That's not realy the point though is it Sun? I mean you do get that the last paragraph quoted is the punchline?
Most legal non eu immigrants tend to be highly educated and democratic. It means nought. I can't see the dyed in the wool Tories who pushed for Brexit being happy with 3 million Asians getting a blue passport.
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How come there’s an awful lot of stuff from Leicester (among numerous other councils) complaining that the government has not being sharing the true data with them then?
Probably to make a point, however the point is that they're not sharing because the data is sh*t. Pillar two, which is the data that is tests which are outside of hospital settings can't even tell people how many people have had the test and more importantly there is duplication between people in pillar one and pillar two tests, which mean there's double counting. They can share all they like, but if it's fecked at source, then it's merely a gesture and nothing of use.
There’s loads of talent in HK across all sectors. The Chinese are already the highest earning ethnic group in the UK. The Brexiteers aren’t happy but it should be a win for UK as a whole.
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We have to put up with you lot to be fair.
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It suspect this will end up being an uncharacteristically shrewd move from this government, if a cynical one.
Most HK residents will not be able to afford to relocate to the UK and the actual guidelines as to who can come will be stricter than the headlines, so it's great optics about being benevolent to former colonies/open to the world etc. with a relatively low risk of the sort of immigration Tories don't like. Those who do come will be relatively wealthy, well-educated, fluent in English and, importantly, ideologically aligned with the Conservatives. And, given the Chinese government's past form, those leaving HK will likely not want to risk leaving many assets there and could bring a lot of investment here.
Edit - incidentally, the number of HK residents applying for BNO passports at the moment is staggering.
That will somewhat depend how liquid their assets are - If a million flats come up for sale in HK prices will crash - equally I'm not sure what the Chinese government will be to the UK offering citizenship to some chinese citizens but there may not make it straight forward to take assets - for example insisting people use chinese ID with banks (and china does not recognize dual citizenship)
True ...and we're worth every extra penny you get!
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Blimey that sounds so uncomplicated, and effective.
A lot will depend upon what actual stance China takes, no doubt it would be pleased to see people it thinks of as 'trouble makers' leave HK, it might even charter a number of Chinese jumbo jets to whisk them to the UK. For those who excel at business and make money, they are likely to be retained, or made offers they cannot refuse. I can't see the Chinese letting go of the 'cash cow' that HK is for the Republic.
The new law is a threat to hold over dissent heads, probably used very sparingly, but if it does start to drive the business community out, then that is when the pot will boil over. Also if by then the remainer 'project fear' has come true in the UK, then I can't see that many of the HK business community wanting to come here under such circumstances. Unless Boris is intent on the UK having a Singapore style economy down the road?
The new law is a threat to hold over dissent heads, probably used very sparingly, but if it does start to drive the business community out, then that is when the pot will boil over. Also if by then the remainer 'project fear' has come true in the UK, then I can't see that many of the HK business community wanting to come here under such circumstances. Unless Boris is intent on the UK having a Singapore style economy down the road?
People could try and offshore assets but it wouldn't be straightforwards and if there was any whiff of illegality in doing so the authorities will no doubt arrest and stop the money leaving China
If your rich enough you will probably have taken steps years ago to ensure your money was elsewhere... i was there around the time of handover and we left as it was pretty obvious right from day one China wasn't going to use the 50 years to make China like Hong Kong and nor were they going to leave Hong Kong free to run its own path for 50 years before getting involved.
I love china and would happily live there again but it was always naive to think that the handover wouldn't result in HK accommodating China rather than the other way round... its not impossible that China might kick up a bit of a fuss but in reality seeing up to 3 million people who are against the government leave and an influx of housing and reduction in the prices might actually make HK overall a lot easier to govern and integrate so they may turn a blind eye to people moving money about and leaving and it might be overall a bit of a win (unofficially) for the Chinese government - yet still one they can leverage against the UK (officially) when it comes to future trade deals etc
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I get that thanks. I'm not sure there was any naivety about it though, I think everyone knew the reality of the situation but the UK government just tried to get the best apparent deal it could to save bad press, and maybe appease the diminishing number of colonel blimps writing to the telegraph. Must have been a fun ride home on the boat though.
Not to mention HK's GDP made up approximately 25% of all of China's GDP I believe when the handover went through, which has obviously come down to about 3% now. HK was simply far more important in the 90s to China than it is now and ruffling feathers to bend it to its will will no longer carry the same penalties or be as painful as it would have done previously.
My friend's already asked if I know of any job openings in the UK
. I actually think you're right though, in the end I don't think that many people will necessarily move. It's a very difficult thing to leave your home and family. And the reality is that day to day life probably won't even necessarily change that much for most people.Edit: Where did you live in China by the way if you don't mind me asking? Fascinating country.
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Indeed if you were upper middle income in shanghai and you went to HK around the handover you were poor - vice versa nowNot to mention HK's GDP made up approximately 25% of all of China's GDP I believe when the handover went through, which has obviously come down to about 3% now. HK was simply far more important in the 90s to China than it is now and ruffling feathers to bend it to its will will no longer carry the same penalties or be as painful as it would have done previously.
My friend's already asked if I know of any job openings in the UK
Edit: Where did you live in China by the way if you don't mind me asking? Fascinating country.
I think those who have not been to China in the last two decades cant really appreciate just how quickly things have developed - its breathtaking when we go back to the wifes home city
Julian Barnes' 1998 novel England, England' seems prophetic: England becomes a crass and farcical theme park supposedly representing 'real Englishness', while the genuine England 'suffers a severe decline and increasingly falls into international irrelevance.'
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FFS. Why not announce the UK as the 51st state of America.
They sure tried their best to keep today's number of deaths hidden away. I guess continuous news of 100-plus deaths per day is bad for Holy Business...
the media hardly make any new covid deaths as a main story. Just being normalized
Very true, ultimately the reality of the situation is that the Chinese government holds the cards and I would imagine they are more than capable of preventing assets leaving HK is they don't want them to. In terms of Dual Citizenship, I believe eligible HK residents are allowed to hold BN(O) status in conjunction with Chinese citizenship as BN(O) is a nationality status, not a citizenship (it doesn't give rights to live/work/vote in another country). So a lot of HK residents hold both statuses currently, are already British Nationals and its long been felt in my area of work that the UK Government have a degree of responsibility for ensuring their safety that they have failed to exercise (albeit for obvious geopolitical reasons).
The first change to this situation is a lifting of the restrictions placed on existing BN(O)s with regards to their ability to live, work etc. in the UK free of immigration control. That should theoretically have no contradictions with Chinese nationality law. However, the other thing under discussion is the possibility of BN(O)s to be able to gain BC by some fast-track route, which would technically mean they'd have to cede their Chinese citizenship under Chinese law. Having said that though, I am personally aware of any number of situations where people hold dual citizenship of Britain and a country where it isn't allowed (e.g - South Korea, Iran). At no point in the process of issuing a British passport to a Chinese citizen will HMPO share that information the Chinese authorities, and there is no requirement for applicants to demonstrate to HMPO they've ceded other citizenships because Britain has no limit of dual (or more) citizenship.