Thank you. Have to admit that I completely missed that. But then, nothing surprises me nowadays.
Westminster Politics
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But he does read, absorb and then regurgitate, or even share, Guido articles. He is aligned with their opinions.
Which is probably why he thinks the pig joke is funny. When really it is deflection.
So by proxy, he is following and assisting the Tory cult.
It always makes me laugh how much he follows Guido and introduces their talking points to serious political discussion. It’s the Sunday Sport without hilarious articles about blokes sucking off their pet gerbil.But he does read, absorb and then regurgitate, or even share, Guido articles. He is aligned with their opinions.
Which is probably why he thinks the pig joke is funny. When really it is deflection.
So by proxy, he is following and assisting the Tory cult.
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I can't apologise for that I'm afraid. I said Boris was absolutely inept as a leader (which is clear from my post) but I never once said he was bad as a politician in my original post. So for me being a great 'politician' means nothing more than being able to lie yourself into a position you don't deserve and being an amazing one means you keep it after the general public has seen all your corruption. So again I will say that Boris is an inept leader and head of state for his actions while in power but an amazing politician because he isn't in trouble of losing his job. I also wasn't getting abusive I simply said that cheerleaders like @ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg are the worst thing for democracy because they treat it as a sport. I asked him what the conservatives would have to do to lose his vote, I asked him to change my mind and he hasn't bothered responding so far. So what part of my post was abusive to you? I think there is a massive difference between a good politician and a good leader, so should why should I be apprehended for that?
I won't apologise for thinking that being a good politician doesn't make you a good leader full stop. For example Trump is a brilliant politician. As for the 'husband' remark that I'm sure was the 'offensive' one then as far as I'm concerned people that support a party unconditionally like a romantic partner would are a scourge on democracy and they should learn to stop that shit if countries want to progress. I have no problem admitting my wrongs, I've done it many times on here, but as far as I'm concerned there was noting wrong with what I said, even if it was a but more forceful that it was needed. I absolutely welcome you pointing me towards the problem and if I agree with it then I will apologise with no problem.
Edit: FFS I already explained it in my response to him so I have no idea what the problem is. You seemed to imply it was about my position on Boris but I can't see where the confusion was to be honest.
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thanks for the @
generally the discussion in this thread is reasonable, if not a bit spikey at times.
I’m not sure why you think I’m a cheerleader?
frankly, I don’t understand what you mean as treating it as a sport?
I don’t keep particular track of posters I’ve engaged with, but can’t remember engaging with you on this?
I don't think we have interacted on this to be fair. If I'm honest your pointing people towards Cameron's scandal screamed at me as being the typical way at attempting to distract from Boris' current ordeal. Hence I used the word cheerleader. If you will it refers, for example, to the likes of Trump supporters who now care about children in cages at the border now that Biden is president and also to Democrats who don't mention those children at all now that Trump isn't president. So that is the biggest stain on democracy for me right now. Basically people who only care about the wrongdoings of the other side, hence the sports fan reference. From your post I originally responded to it seemed to me the kind of post that was like who cares what Boris does when others have done things too. Now I probably jumped to conclusions about you being a Boris fan, who like Trump ones, are willing to overlook any fault he has because you support him like a United fan would support Fergie. I probably jumped the gun, which is never helpful in these discussions, but to be honest like I said I am an idealist to fault and as far as I'm concerned the likes of Boris and many other politicians worldwide who have been proven to knowingly lie should be disbarred from politics and never allowed hold office again. I felt your post was saying that ok Boris can have his gaffes but maybe the likes of Corbyn should hang for the same thing. Like I said politicians should be held to the highest scrutiny ever regardless of if we agree with their general policies.
I'm genuinely worried at this 'my team' aspect of politics that has arisen in many countries. Its alright if my side does it but if the other side does it its horrible. Politics should be fluid, it is very reasonable to vote for one person and then vote for a different one if the former has not reached your expectation. So in an ideal World there shouldn't be Tory and Labour voters, there should be people who vote for their best personal choice each time based on reality and any politician proven to be corrupt should be sacked and never allowed represent the tax paying public again.
I thought we had done the Boris news to death that day to be honest, and it seemed like repetitive, so thought I’d introduce the Cameron article which had got more traction on BBC
I’m certainty not a fan boy of Boris, or a cheerleader. I don’tthink he’s as bad as some of his opponents make out.
But that needs to be put in context. We are so far away from having ‘whiter than white’ politicians, there’s what you could call a scandal almost every week. We, the public have become immune to it, and politicians continue on regardless.
Is he what I would want in a PM? No. Does he have the morals I’d want in a PM, no. Does anyone have the morals I’d want in a PM, that’s questionable.
the benefit of Boris is that we all know he’s an adulterous, lying cheat. At least we can’t be disappointed in him...
I’m not sure what we get out of politicians these days, most interviews with any politician are largely pointless.
repeat the question - bridge - get across your message
rinse and repeat.
I wouldn’t treat a Labour leader any different to a Tory leader. I’m actually a big supporter of Kier Starmer, and think given time he could challenge theTories - only once Covid is out of the way, as I don’t think there’s a chance of any opposition having a big effect whilst this still lingers. I wasn’t a fan of Corbin, not for his gaffs and poor decisions, but for his ideology, it absolutely didn’t resonate with me.
i agree about voter fluidity, and it’s why I will say I’m a centralist, I’ve voted for both Tory and Labour candidates. I think our Labour MP is very good, and I’m not partisan to a particular party.
i won’t blindly follow or support a candidate/ party/ personality. I don’t feel the need to ‘stick’ by a candidate.
The medium of a forum exacerbates this team perception. If we got people in the Rashford vs Martial or Ronaldo vs Messi threads face to face, I expect we would have more reasoned discussions, rather than entrenched ideas.
They're all at it but Boris is so stupid that he gets caught...often. If he's that fecking inept at affairs then he must be really inept at difficult stuff.
That's fair enough mate and my apologies for branding you something off of one post. Like I said I'm definitely too much of an idealist. I guess the reason I believe that there is no one morally ok for being a PM is because we the people have never forced it. I believe that if you disbarred all the liars and jailed those that broke the law then eventually you would force a situation where politicians had to be squeaky clean or else they would be punished. All I see now is them being allowed to do what they want with blatant impunity. Of course is isn't just Boris and it certainly isn't just the right wing politicians worldwide but the standard has always been so low for all of them. I will be the first to admit my ideals are horribly naive but to be honest it feels like we have just accepted this behaviour as part of being a politician. For what its worth I don't care how many women Boris has fecked but rather how him and his party have misused public funds with no consequence at all. That is the problem for me, how we all know that these people are committing crimes but how they will never have to answer for it.
Appreciate the explanation. The problem was the unnecessary aggression in your reply, but seems we're all good now.
Debate is good, we just want the CE to remain civil, even when feelings are running high.
Yeah no bother mate. Looking back it definitely came across as too aggressive. Won't happen again (I hope!).
Johnson brings it out in all of us.
Andrew Marr shielding a colleague of the philandering hacks club, perhaps?
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Christ that feels so dystopian.
Boris Johnson has solved racism. Very cool
Absolutely. It's almost like he doesn't realise the influence it had on him. Either that or he is inherently extremely right wing, but in denial.
Chicken or egg scenario.
*clap clap*
NHS pay row could mean 100,000 nurses quit after a year of pandemic pressure
A new poll suggested a pay rise was the most important issue for 70% of NHS staff
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-pay-row-could-mean-23823866
NHS pay row could mean 100,000 nurses quit after a year of pandemic pressure
A new poll suggested a pay rise was the most important issue for 70% of NHS staff
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-pay-row-could-mean-23823866
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it’s an interesting challenge, one that will obviously span borders.
imagine you were in an old people’s home, wouldn’t you want or insist on your care assistants being vaccinated?
Going to be some employment challenges coming.
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Jennifer Arcuri: Conservative Party helped PM with inquiry legal bills
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56604436
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56604436
Amber Rudd
I think there's a marked difference between some companies whose employees come into close contact with the elderly themselves insisting on vaccination; compared with governmental policy prohibiting visiting pubs, theatres or going on holiday without a vaccination passport.
The former is a matter for individual businesses and their potential employees deciding whether the job is worth having to be vaccinated. The latter is racist, ageist and terrifyingly authoritarian.
that’s why I say it’s an interesting challenge, and it’s just one example. There will be many.
furthermore, it’s not just the UK govt. you can easily see countries insisting on people being vaccinated to visit/ work/ fly to their destination.
Take the pub example, if pubs were required to close in the dirtier if there was a mini outbreak, then they might decide to implement a policy of only allowing vaccinated patrons. Likewise with theatres. It’s not necessarily govt led.
As I said, it’s a challenge. The vaccination will not rid us of this, and life will NOT revert back to normal we will need to make changes. There will be outbreaks, there will be closures, and restrictions, there will be deaths post June. It is not over.
the lack of uptake of the vaccination in certain groups, also requires sensible discussion, and not just to label it racist.
Not sure I understand the current furore regarding vaccine passports.
I look around my (non-trendy) home town, at all the shops and restaurants which have been closed since Christmas and wonder if any of them are ever to open again. At least three national brands have left my high street forever, taking jobs with them.
A 'two tier system' may not be ideal, but nor is a global pandemic. Would be nice to get those businesses open, who knows maybe one or two will still be in business this time next year if we they could allow people with a vaccine to spend money in them.
All those local restaurants closed, but you have to queue down the street, through a roundabout and down another street to get into the McDonalds drive through.
I look around my (non-trendy) home town, at all the shops and restaurants which have been closed since Christmas and wonder if any of them are ever to open again. At least three national brands have left my high street forever, taking jobs with them.
A 'two tier system' may not be ideal, but nor is a global pandemic. Would be nice to get those businesses open, who knows maybe one or two will still be in business this time next year if we they could allow people with a vaccine to spend money in them.
All those local restaurants closed, but you have to queue down the street, through a roundabout and down another street to get into the McDonalds drive through.
I'm all for opening up society completely and irreversibly. However doing so in a way that discriminates against people who for whatever reason (be it age, or historic and justifiable medical cynicism) won't be vaccinated would be dreadful in my view.
I think one of the reasons people are against the vaccine passports is that it would highlight just how stupid the plan of arbitrarily vaccinating people by age group has been as the under-40s wouldn’t be able to go out.
The single, working age person who is likely to go to the pub for a few with colleagues which is the backbone of the sector wouldn’t be able to go. The 40s and 50s are likely to have families and / or dependants and those over 60 I wouldn’t believe would frequent the, often enough to turn a profit.
‘University’ cities like Newcastle, Leeds and York would be screwed!
Would be interesting to see if it was possible to work out the percentage of sector income by age group.
The single, working age person who is likely to go to the pub for a few with colleagues which is the backbone of the sector wouldn’t be able to go. The 40s and 50s are likely to have families and / or dependants and those over 60 I wouldn’t believe would frequent the, often enough to turn a profit.
‘University’ cities like Newcastle, Leeds and York would be screwed!
Would be interesting to see if it was possible to work out the percentage of sector income by age group.
It's not arbitrary, as clearly age and mortality are heavily correlated. I'm fine that older folk are vaccinated first. But it doesn't make sense to have a two tier system now based on vulnerability, having done a blanket approach to lockdown before.
But there's clearly a discrepancy between vaccinating purely based on a view that older = more vulnerable when workers with close contact such as teachers and shop workers who have the highest rates of contacts have been left behind. For example my mum who, bless her, is retired and only ever leaves the house to walk her dog, visit my sister and I, or to do the shop, was a higher priority for vaccination than my wife who as a seco dary teacher comes in to close contact with hundreds of children a day.
But also look into issue like University Cities that die whenever the terms are over and students return home. Vaccine passports mean Uni students can't go out which means off-peak all year around. It's another case of cutting your nose to spite your face.
It will be interesting to see what happens to these towns when the older people die off and there is nothing there to attract younger people other than cheap property. Surely these trends cannot hold?
Those younger people become older people, and their viewpoint/ priorities change.
We could always prioritise people who want to go to the pub...
I frankly think we need to get over this notion, that we are all to be treated the same during the process of coming out of Covid.
If a 20 year old has to wait to go to the pub, or go on holiday, then so bloody what. The alternative being, we wait for everyone?
I’ve not been vaccinated yet. If my local opened and I couldn’t go, it would be frustrating, but at least they would be doing business. If I had to wait a couple of weeks or months, then simply I need to get a grip and get on with it.
It’s clearly not not pubs, theatres is one example where I expect the demographic is somewhat older. If younger people can’t go, but that enables them to open and carry on, what is the problem?
It’s all rather pointless anyway, as come June we can all do whatever we like... until about October when we all go into some form of lockdown again.
Yeah, but curent younger people do not and will not have the opportunity to buy property and get wealthy as easily as the current older people did. Therefore, their views will probabaly not move rightwards as readily or strongly. I bet this partly explains the loss of support among younger people for the Tories in the cities.
@finneh
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56625307
Interested to hear your perspective on passports to see events this summer? So you think that this is racist?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56625307
Interested to hear your perspective on passports to see events this summer? So you think that this is racist?