Matic Pogba zlatan... maybe even rashford . Though he would lead by example aka giving 100% and and continuing to try to make something happen and hopefully that is motivation enough for others in the squad to pick up the tempo
We've got talent but do we have leaders?
- Thread starter f_to_z
- Start date
I always wondered did LVG even care about the mentality of the players he was signing? Most seem mentally weak or not up to the challenge required to play for United in transition.
Di Maria- mentally VERY weak, good creative player. terrible terrible signing.
Shaw- mentally weak
Falcao- too injured to influence things positively, seemed like a good guy but did nothing here apart from fall over a lot and start his rehab on huge wages.
Morgan- hiding in plain sight while the position he played in was there to be won, failed on the bigger stage, still playing poorly at Everton. He looked good before he signed for us but I doubted we actually needed that type of player as such a pressing thing, excuse the pun.
BFS- fell out with the squad for not staying in Manchester enough, clearly not that bothered.
Martial - getting a rough ride from Jose after a shocking second season but looking good again, we got what we paid for though- one of the best young prospects in the world. Someone on the fringes of the first team straight away with world class potential. These are the kind of signings we should make more of with the emphasis on world class.
Ander- I think he's a fighter and I like him. I think he can play a big part in most any top squad at his best level but he's been poor this season for sure.
Depay- loads of self belief at the start but quickly lost confidence and his game totally fell apart here, another youngster Jose doesn't trust. Will he come good like some of the others? who knows... we've let go of some fairly decent prospects down through the years but he was playing awfully so no complaints from me.
Rojo- seems like a leader to be fair, quite rash and took a few seasons to really get going but if he can get back to the form he was in before the injury then he'll be like a new signing.
Blind- not really a good enough footballer to nail down a solid position for us, seems a good pro but nothing special as a footballer. Neat and tidy.
Darmian- could leave in the morning and it wouldn't make a seconds difference on the pitch. Seems like a good pro.
A truly Bananas collection of signings in hindsight!
Di Maria- mentally VERY weak, good creative player. terrible terrible signing.
Shaw- mentally weak
Falcao- too injured to influence things positively, seemed like a good guy but did nothing here apart from fall over a lot and start his rehab on huge wages.
Morgan- hiding in plain sight while the position he played in was there to be won, failed on the bigger stage, still playing poorly at Everton. He looked good before he signed for us but I doubted we actually needed that type of player as such a pressing thing, excuse the pun.
BFS- fell out with the squad for not staying in Manchester enough, clearly not that bothered.
Martial - getting a rough ride from Jose after a shocking second season but looking good again, we got what we paid for though- one of the best young prospects in the world. Someone on the fringes of the first team straight away with world class potential. These are the kind of signings we should make more of with the emphasis on world class.
Ander- I think he's a fighter and I like him. I think he can play a big part in most any top squad at his best level but he's been poor this season for sure.
Depay- loads of self belief at the start but quickly lost confidence and his game totally fell apart here, another youngster Jose doesn't trust. Will he come good like some of the others? who knows... we've let go of some fairly decent prospects down through the years but he was playing awfully so no complaints from me.
Rojo- seems like a leader to be fair, quite rash and took a few seasons to really get going but if he can get back to the form he was in before the injury then he'll be like a new signing.
Blind- not really a good enough footballer to nail down a solid position for us, seems a good pro but nothing special as a footballer. Neat and tidy.
Darmian- could leave in the morning and it wouldn't make a seconds difference on the pitch. Seems like a good pro.
A truly Bananas collection of signings in hindsight!
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Yes, we definitely lack on field leadership.
Just look at our go to captains, Valencia & Smalling.... I get it, seniority and most games played, but one can barely speak English, and the other, well....
We need someone on the field to set standards but I don't know if the modern game works that way.
Modern players seem like pussies to me. I can't see any of them coping with the sort of calling out the likes of Keane or even Neville would've doled out.
I think Zlatan is the only player in the squad with the character to make such demands but I don't know how likely that is to happen, maybe, if it was 5 years ago.
Just look at our go to captains, Valencia & Smalling.... I get it, seniority and most games played, but one can barely speak English, and the other, well....
We need someone on the field to set standards but I don't know if the modern game works that way.
Modern players seem like pussies to me. I can't see any of them coping with the sort of calling out the likes of Keane or even Neville would've doled out.
I think Zlatan is the only player in the squad with the character to make such demands but I don't know how likely that is to happen, maybe, if it was 5 years ago.
I think zlatan has the attitude but I'd hate for the club to be depending on him for much longer. Maybe 5 years ago he'd have been a great captain or leader for us but he's a bad stop gap now, almost like attitude for hire too. He seems like a cool guy but he won't be here long enough.
I don't actually think there are very many leaders in there anymore. Seems like only pogba has emerged in that way and I think that may be kind of symptomatic of where we are as a club at this moment in time BUT we have lots of potential. I love pogba but I'm still waiting for him to dominate and win a big game for us. He's a brilliant player but we still Haven't won anything serious with him in the team and he doesn't do much in the big games so far. If he starts turning in match winning performances consistently he'll elevate himself to captain in no time at all. He's the next in line anyway. Let's hope he and we can kick on even more!
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Leadership is something to be earned and most of the time it is earned through longevity and more importantly, achieving something at the club. We used to have a very strong balance between leaders and to be leaders in our teams. We had a team with Keane, Cantona and Irwin. The likes of Giggs, Scholes and Becks grew up with them following their lead and by the time they left, the class of 92 was around long enough and won enough to assume the responsibility. The same happened with Evra, Carrick, Rooney and Vidic who took over from the likes of Neville and Scholes. If you look at the top clubs now, it is usually the same with the leaders at Real being the ones who have been long enough there and grew in the role like Ramos, Marcelo, Modric and Ronaldo. This is why we cannot keep buying and selling and having this huge turnover of players and expect any leadership qualities to emerge from anyone. Why would anyone be listened to and be considered to have the aura and presence necessary to lead when they haven't been there and done it with the club. This is actually why I believe so many managers overlooked Rooney's horrible form in his later years for us. He was the last one to bring that presence in our squad.
Pogba and zlatan and matic are leaders
The rest not so much
The rest not so much
Least of our problems. We need more quality players and better tactics.
I would say we need more talent and improvements in certain tactical aspects.
Don't think leadership is a big problem.
Don't think leadership is a big problem.
Agree with that, it is more to do with our style of play weve definately got enough characters in the squad. City have quality players but i wouldnt define most of then as leaders - theyre set up in a good way which enables their quality players to perform.
Id say our leaders are bailly, valencia, jones, matic, pogba, zlatan possibly fellaini theres enough big characters there but then you compare that to city and kompany is one, fernandinho and possibly stones. You can argue have enough leaders in the right area to allow their other quality players to perform.
Valencia is a leader, but do we need a leader in that position or someone who isnt a leader but has more quality on the ball going forward. I know zlatan hasnt played yet but do we really need a leader in that position or someone of a good quality. Buying lukaku was a good choice but i hope zlatan doesnt get shoehorned into the team.
Valencia is not a leader. He cannot even organize his own defence. He is just the wear of the arm band. His qualities are not good enough to lead by example and his demeanour is not that of a leader who can drag the team forward. Maybe Evra can be brought in as a replacement to be in the squad and it does not matter if he is not a regular player. Pogba seems to be the only choice for now.
Re leadership... just imagine this squad in the tunnel at Highbury and think 
.
.Sadly i have been saying this for along time. We have had no genuine leader since Roy Keane. We lack a player that can motivate players on the pitch in games.
Firstly we do not have leaders on the pitch, I see some saying Matic is a leader, well I haven't seen that side of him yet. Is Pogba a true leader on the pitch or the joker everyone likes to be around. Zlatan is a leader but his age is counting against him. Herrera no true leader, great servant but needs to be lead. This season he has been awful and his confidence is shot, I was really hoping after a few games he would come good but it seems to only be getting worse.
We really need a leader and by the way the captaincy armband floats around Mourinho could wear it himself. To an extent he is to blame for this as he said he only has one captain and that was Carrick who hasn't played a minute this season and got chosen on seniority and not leadership.
On the other hand, as we saw at the beginning of the season everything started gelling and no one was worried who was the captain, then Pogba and Fellaini got injured and our tactics changed completely. Something more than just those injuries has happened, it seems as if all the confidence built up until the Liverpool game has been pulled out from underneath them like a rug and I hope with the return of Pogba shortly and eventually Zlatan things will turn around.
We really need a leader and by the way the captaincy armband floats around Mourinho could wear it himself. To an extent he is to blame for this as he said he only has one captain and that was Carrick who hasn't played a minute this season and got chosen on seniority and not leadership.
On the other hand, as we saw at the beginning of the season everything started gelling and no one was worried who was the captain, then Pogba and Fellaini got injured and our tactics changed completely. Something more than just those injuries has happened, it seems as if all the confidence built up until the Liverpool game has been pulled out from underneath them like a rug and I hope with the return of Pogba shortly and eventually Zlatan things will turn around.
Honestly I think he is both. Dont need to be one to detriment of the other.
Every time i come across players like Valencia, Carrick or Smalling, i do not see leadership qualities but only experience. Zlatan can change our mindset when he returns and for now, i think Pogba can make a difference. His physical presence is enough to carry us through for a while but this needs to change.
Yes we are lacking leadership in our team now. We used to have a team with lots of leaders in SAF's time. I would say that Zlatan and Matic has it in them, but Pogba and Lukaku eventually.
Just like our previous club captain. At least there's consistency.
It's clear there is a deficit in leadership between our current squad and Fergie's best, but at this stage that is a nigh on impossible gap to bridge given the unprecedented winning mentality in which his players were brought up through the 90s and 00s. As with every aspect of Fergie's reign what we have now will look poor in comparison, so let's not worry about emulating that kind of quality in leadership.
While we certainly do need to look at the characters of potential signings and youth promotions, I think Jose is good at identifying workers and those who will follow instructions and I believe this will naturally create a group who know their roles and are able to help and cajole each other while out on the pitch.
My main concern is that we don't have top quality and enough of the right style of players in the right positions (hence a few square pegs, particularly in wide areas). However on the positive side I think Matic as a blend of good character, footballing skill and being a good fit for what we need was a great signing so I'm hopeful we're through the scattergun era of signing talented lads (Depay, Di Maria, Schneiderlin) who lack the overall package needed to make it here.
While we certainly do need to look at the characters of potential signings and youth promotions, I think Jose is good at identifying workers and those who will follow instructions and I believe this will naturally create a group who know their roles and are able to help and cajole each other while out on the pitch.
My main concern is that we don't have top quality and enough of the right style of players in the right positions (hence a few square pegs, particularly in wide areas). However on the positive side I think Matic as a blend of good character, footballing skill and being a good fit for what we need was a great signing so I'm hopeful we're through the scattergun era of signing talented lads (Depay, Di Maria, Schneiderlin) who lack the overall package needed to make it here.
I see your point here. Though I don't think the three you highlight are archetypal chiselled-jawed leaders of men their quality and, in the case of Silva and Aguero, seniority enables them to lead by example rather than necessarily their voices/personalities. Keane and Robson were freaks in that they were both great leaders and great footballers but I can see how a few quality senior players doing the business in key areas of the pitch could go at least some way to bridging the gap in authority.
Disagree.
I think, when everyone in the squad is fit, the following players are all grown men that know how to lead a charge and fight for their teammates:
I think, when everyone in the squad is fit, the following players are all grown men that know how to lead a charge and fight for their teammates:
- Rojo
- Jones
- Valencia
- Pogba
- Herrera
- Lukaku
- Zlatan (when he returns)
- we don't have defensive wingers that would perfectly implement Mourinho's tactics
- we don't have outstanding attacking midfielders or wingers that are so super talented that Jose would be forced to let us play an open, expansive game: he is trying to make the best use of what we have
- we have zero replacement for when Pogba gets injured
A leader to me is a Robbo or Keane. A strong presence and a will to win at all costs. Wont take less than 100% from anyone and will let that player know if they aint pulling their weight. Able to influence a game by setting and implementing the managers gameplan as near as dammit as he can. Know when to up the tempo and when to ease off. We havent anyone doing that for us as far as I can see.
Depends how you define ‘Leader’. I reckon we haven’t had a true leader since Keane. The leader doesn’t have to be the best player, just an inspirational one. Zlatan is the closest we have but how we need a Robbo or Keane or Buchan from years ago.
true enough re Ibra being inspirational. But I always felt that guys like Robson and Keane, as leaders dictated the pace of the game. Their position allowed them to do that. They could grab a game by the scruff of the neck. I don't feel Ibra could impose himself in that way, as a forward. Let's be honest he wouldn't be in a hurry to make tackles. Can he really bollock a midfielder or a centre half the way Keano did for not making a tackle or a run. Great player as he is Ibra, work rate wouldn't be his biggest attribute. I feel he can lead and inspire in a way a Cantona did for example. I think a lot of us are old fashioned in that we want a centre half or centre mid to be the leader, but game is changing. We now have players quietly and effectively going about their business a la Kante, Matic and the like.
Funny how you can see things differently. I think leadership is the last thing we lack. We do lack cohesion in our play, but I think that is down to us not training much on how we should move to open space for each other when we attack. City got that and it is mainly down to Guardiolas coaching, but I do think they lack much more leadership (apart from Kompany) to deal with difficult periods compared to us. Although as long as they do well you will not see those negative sides from them.
When you talk about leadership about motivating players we certainly got that. When it comes to directing others about defensive positions we got Matic mainly for that.
We do lack players that can open a game up by individual brilliance, but that is not really leadership for me. That is more us lacking indvidual quality.
When you talk about leadership about motivating players we certainly got that. When it comes to directing others about defensive positions we got Matic mainly for that.
We do lack players that can open a game up by individual brilliance, but that is not really leadership for me. That is more us lacking indvidual quality.
I always believed our team lacked leaders and strong character players. We have got lots of talent but we are lacking strong heads that keep going when it gets tough. I am glad Mourinho finally acknowledges this issue we have in our team in his last press conference. Like he pointed out when things are well everyone is a good player but when we are losing and having bad times you will differentiate the men from the boys. It might be harsh and might backfire with some players, but these players are making lots of money and they need to earn it and also earn the wearing the United shirt. I understand Mourinhos tactics are very defensive but still I would at least want to see an interest or a fighting spirit from many players on the pitch. Some might say that he needs to keep this issue indoors within the dressing room. That is also very true but I believe he has exhausted that route already with no results and has no other choice but to try going public with it.
I thought the same as you at the time, how wrong we were... He's a 4 year old in a mans body.
Funny I also changed my mind now too. He's far from being a captain material. I was idiot thinking like that.
I don't think Pogba has problem to eventually bounce back. Leadership however, is a different beast altogether. To have people inline with your view is very difficult. Pogba is well liked, respected by teammates, people; but it is different to having authority and have people submit to your way. He might grow to be eventually we never know but not now for sure.
Lately Lukaku is showing alot of maturity and leadership both on and off the pitch. Works hard in both good and bad games, shows maturity and class off the pitch. I'm really starting to like him alot.
Young is a leader. Showed it again last night.
People on here don’t like him though so he isn’t recognised as one.
I agree Valencia isn’t one, other than by example. Very little interaction with other players. Scowls a lot though. You really wouldn’t want to mess with him
People on here don’t like him though so he isn’t recognised as one.
I agree Valencia isn’t one, other than by example. Very little interaction with other players. Scowls a lot though. You really wouldn’t want to mess with him
Interesting bump - I think this is the key issue at the moment. We don't have a Vidic/Keane/Rooney/Cantona personality in the team.
Our back 4 reminds me of the transition between Jaap Stam and Rio/Vidic. Our center of midfield reminds of the years before Rooney and Ronaldo began to shine. And forwards remind me of the RVN years - great quality, but so many issues behind them they can't drag us forward to where we need to be.
Mourinho will sort it out, of that I have little doubt.
Our back 4 reminds me of the transition between Jaap Stam and Rio/Vidic. Our center of midfield reminds of the years before Rooney and Ronaldo began to shine. And forwards remind me of the RVN years - great quality, but so many issues behind them they can't drag us forward to where we need to be.
Mourinho will sort it out, of that I have little doubt.
Agree. I never thought Lukaku would show this kind of stuff when we signed him. He's acting like the main leader of the group on and off the pitch. If he keeps up like that he can become our captain in the few coming years.
He's now my favorite player in the team and I dare to say him and Matic are our best players currently by far till Pogba and Sanchez sort themselves out.
Agree 100%
I don't think Rooney is a good leader. If anything he is the problem as captain. He is similar to Pogba. Well liked and respected, but SAF never had him as any kind of leader. It is not mere workrate or talent which Rooney had plenty but leadership, the different kind of gift on its own. Nobody saw Vidic to take vice captain role that soon (Gary Neville was our official captain at the time but often missed out due to injury). SAF has the eyes to pick captain.
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Our current team has few good leaders and has a low mentality. We can play worldclass football if everything goes after plan or when we are down 2-0. We just dont have the right mentality every match. City has the right mentality 8 of 10 games this season.
+1 on the Lukaku bandwagon. Hes got the workrater of a leader, giving his all in the good and trash games
Also hes got that fear factor which you dont want to mess with him, hes built like a disco guard
Also hes got that fear factor which you dont want to mess with him, hes built like a disco guard
No, we don't. And a lot of this stems from Rooney being resigned by Moyes. He was clearly past it, pissed up and living on past glories. The root of the team still remains from him being the loudest voice in the dressing room and he led the wrong way.
I actually agree with you about Rooney, but like it or not he was viewed as a leader on the pitch, especially post Sir Alex.
Sanchez may be a good leader for us if he settles
A leader needs to stand out as a player as well as being able to bark orders, encourage and organise on the pitch. Valencia does none of those things. When you look at Roson, Bruce and Keane they were also stand out players on the pitch, rarely having a poor game. You cant bollock a player when you have done feck all yourself.
Pogba with leadership is the weirdest thing i've ever heard in my entire life so far