We've had two different managers but same faults. (LVG and Mourinho)

[Jack - City Fan]

I think Mourinho's main problem is that there still seems to be no attacking style. Most of the games I've seen United win, including the comeback against us last week have been the result of players stepping up and getting the job done.

When I say stepping up though, I mean more than you can expect them to do on a weekly basis. You can't realistically expect your player to have a worldy every week, no matter who they are. Yes theres a minimum standard of consistency you expect, but every player has an off day and its rare you find a Messi or Ronaldo who takes a game by the scruff of its neck week in week out, it's times like this a team has to have a system to fall back on and be better than the sum of its parts. Now I'm of the opinion that this is where Mourinho needs to take some flak, if you have players of the quality United has on the team, you're always going to get some results just through mere quality, but theres no question in my mind that a coherent would style would raise the levels of most every player on this team.

People saying the quality of the team isn't there, there are a lot of good players on this team, who've been key components in the success of other teams, Pogba, Sanchez, Matic, Mata, Lukaku, Martial. These are good players, the team now has much more quality than it has had since Ferguson left IMO, but something isn't happening to let them shine because the quality is clearly there. Getting the players to work in a system is the managers job and maybe that means they ant all stay because they cant all fit. But I think once a system is in place you'll see these players raise there game even more often, its much easier to raise your game when you're confident in a system and working better with your team mates. Its the difference between De Bruyne getting an assist a week and occasionally scoring a long range shot, or Sterling scoring 20 goals a season and 9.

 

[OneFootball]

True but those wins haven't been comfortable either.

From an outside perspective I think that there are three things you need to consider before you begin to judge Mourinho. Firstly, you just aren’t going to get another Alex Ferguson so stop waiting for his second coming and secondly remember that Mourinho has actually improved you from what you were. He won two trophies his first season and has raised your PL position from 8th to probably 2nd. In anyone else’s eyes, that is progress. It counts for nothing that you used to do this or you used to win that (believe me I know). Whether MOruinho can continue to improve you beyond that is the far more difficult third question and really is the one to ask if you, as a Club and fan base, are to stick with him. He’s had some great victories of late, Chelsea, Palace, Us & City but all tempered by losses to Seville and WBA! Sounds bizarre so what responsibility the players and does that mean there is a dressing room/manager issue
Maybe Mourinho’s style of football as a war of attrition is becoming outdated and it certainly isn’t what the OT faithful are used to watching. With the quality of squad you have, you are capable of playing the same attacking football as Liverpool and City, there is no doubt about that. And you probably have a better defence to go with that.
I cant imagine that either Klopp or Pep would be playing Lukaka, a front 3 of Martial, Sanchez and Rashford would be an equal to all but there is a fear in Mourinho to trust these guys.
There is no perfect team, not even City as we’ve recently seen and all will have weaknesses. And I’m not trying to put Liverpool in their bracket by their references here either as we have a huge season ahead to progress or do the usual step backwards.
To be honest, as a rival fan, I hope Mourinho stays as whatever quality players you purchase this summer, there is a fair chance that Mourinho will continue to employ a system of play that will curb their natural ability.

 

[Champagne Football]

The like of Herrera and Mata have been painfully inconsistent under both managers. One week brilliant then next 3 weeks invisible. More deadwood needs to be shipped out.

I have no doubt Pogba will do a De Bruyne and become a world beater elsewhere. As long as Jose's here we have to accept that he will always put grafters in if he feels neccessary like Willian, Peresic instead of artists like Pogba, Mo Salah, so I have no doubt he'll have the team he really wants next season even if that means getting rid of some talented attackers who will thrive elsewhere

 

[MUFC OK]

Moyes should not be even brought to this argument. That guy was a disaster. No other top club would have done that. Manchester United sold its success back in 2009 when they sold Ronaldo and replaced with Michael crocked owen and then to compound that misery they replaced sir Alex with david moyes. Trust me these two things were bound to take our club behind the likes of bayern, barca and madrid. Jose has his flaws and he has become a boring history teacher but he got a broken club , a club that was in a mess. I dont know when he will leave but all I know is he will surely leave our club at a better state with better squad than what he had got. So ffs let us not even compare Moyes or lvg with jose

Both catastrophic decisions, I still believe that moyes and LVG have set this club back years with their staff clear outs abject management and poor recruitment. The end of last season and this season have been our first signs of recovery.

Yet some want more and are only satisfied if we are playing swashbuckling football and challenging for the title. City btw finished on 78 pts last season..

 

[Marcky411]

It doesn't help comparing managers, seeing similarities in LvG and Jose is obvious because Jose learnt his trade from LvG back in the day at Barcelona. The reason a thread like this has been started is because everything we hated about LvG's football we are seeing now with Jose. Slow boring uncreative football with very little end product. Under LvG he like to keep possession, thus at a snail's pace the ball went from left to right and then from right to left and if pressed back to DDG and then from him the ball either got hoofed forward or the rotation started all over again, with very little end product.
We are seeing exactly the same tactics now and when things go wrong (there is no plan B, LvG had Fellaini) Jose throws on every attacker we have and hopes someone saves the blushes, that didn't happen against Westbrom.
How many people really believe giving Jose another 300mil is going to solve the problem? The fans have had more patience with Jose than the previous 2 managers to the extent blaming everybody from the board right down to the tea lady for Jose's failings. I think the reason for this hasn't really been the faith they have in Jose but more to do with the fact that we have had 3 managers in 5 years and spent a fortune with very little progression. The big question remaining is, with all that money spent and having LvG and Jose with the CV's both have not being able to turn things around, who out there will be able to come in and succeed where these two managers have failed.

 

[golden_blunder]

I think it’s only fair to judge Mourinho from next season. First season we won Europa league, 2nd season lying second in league and still in FA cup. Let’s see if he can top it next season after some (hopefully) smart recruitment this summer

 

[Smores]

I'd genuinely love for those who moan about our lack of attacking style or 'patterns' (which seems to be this seasons buzzword) to detail Spurs patterns and Fergies late teams pattern of play.

Our last game was shite no to ways about it but i fail to see much difference beyond output in how we ever approached these games. That was the typical shite Fergie game against deep opposition where nothing came off.

Just go into the old matchday forum and you'll see the same complaints as now. Pick nearly any game thread against Blackburn and see how amazing our fans actually thought we were.

 

[astracrazy]

IMO the team is going in the right direction. Overall there has been an improvement under Jose, yes there have been some serious let downs along the way and I think Jose knows that. In the presser he said you win titles through consistency and that we have not been. Man City have had a very very good season, normally we would be in the title race. Jose picked up a team that was lost under LVG and he has had to replace the woeful signings made by him. These things take time. Next season is the season for me that I will truly judge Jose because he would have had enough time to put things into place and it feels like we are approaching that point where with 2-3 good signings (not big names, but players we need) and consistency we could win the title.

For LVG I don't think you can quiet appreciate the scale of the job the man had and although the football was a drag he steadied the ship and to get the FA cup was a great achievement. He took over a team that was shot of confidence and on the way down.

Moyes can't even come into this discussion, the man shouldn't have been anywhere near the job.

I think the players are greatly responsible for a lot of things and you can't keep going on blaming the manager(s). There attitude sometimes is appalling and they aren't even fit to wear the shirt. In those cases a manager can only do so much leading to showing them the door which I hope we see for a few players this summer (hence my hope for next season).

 

[R'hllor]

No, we've not had a system of play all season. Yes, we overload the left pretty much every game when we play a WBA but that in itself isn't a system. More often than not, we see all 3 of Mata, Pogba and Sanchez within 5 yards of each other with the receiver taking the others out of play. There's more to having a system than overloading one flank.

When I say how to win, the emphasis is on the "how", not the result. We don't have a system in place that enables our attackers to do well as a unit or give them a platform to work with. We look an uncoached team going forward. This would have remained the case had we beaten WBA yesterday too because lets face it, our points total this season isn't too shabby.

You better watch out, if you keep going, you will be slapped the "We are 2nd" line.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

On the face of it, it's difficult to say Mourinho and LVG are similar but Imo the consequences of both ideologies lead to similar problems with the team.
Both managers are very risk averse in that their entire philosophy evolves around reducing mistakes to a bare minimum.
LVG'S idea of reducing mistakes involved around extreme ball circulation with players staying in their positions. While Mourinho's has an extreme fear of his team getting caught out of position or being disorganised.
The result are a team that is frightened of making mistakes and players not moving the ball quickly enough.
I cannot accept that this team doesn't have enough talent to taught to play at a higher tempo. It's simply not possible.

The mistake you're making is that you equate the general approach and the tempo of football. I understand why so many people are willing to buy into this, it simply provides a black and white answer: all our woes will instantly go away by a snap of the fingers if Mourinho gets the sack and Mr "scintillating football" comes to Old Trafford. Trust me, they won't.

I'm sure you understand that the notion that a manager like Mourinho, whose core principles revolve around transitioning the ball with speed from one end of the pitch to the other, can't be teaching his back-four and the two central midfielders not to play risky vertical passes between the lines. It doesn't add up. His teams may be pragmatic, his tactics may be reactive and system may prioritize winning with an economy of effort but his best sides were never sluggish on the football pitch.

The same goes for LvG. In the final third of the pitch, he expects clever off the ball movement to create pockets of space, quick thinking, and conviction on the ball. The two times United has faced an LvG side (Barca 1999, Bayern 2010) did we seem to be playing against dull sides or against sides that had their own plan to match us? I guess it's the second.

I agree on one thing though. They both are control freaks in the sense that they have specific instructions they expect their footballers to follow to the letter. In this they are quite similar despite their diffirent approach. LvG's infamous for using numbers (from 1 to 11) instead of his players' names in training and it shows that he's fixed on roles and not on individual skills. He's also the most conservative among the renown possession-based coaches in terms of vertical off the ball movement (keep in mind though that the Cruyffian absolute freedom for the players nowadays is more a concept idea like Plato's state and less something that can actually be applied successfully). I've argued elsewhere that even though SAF and Mourinho share some general principles, like defending in a low block and relying a lot on the counter attacks to exploit open spaces, when it comes to the individual, SAF always showed faith in his players' skills. This is why he was a master at extensive rotation and why his players played in several positions (but they also didn't sulk at the idea of being utilized elsewhere an not in their favourite position). On the other hand, Mourinho likes his specialists, his go-to men who will see that his orders are being carried out to perfection.

But this has nothing to do with the tempo of our football. The ability to play at a higher tempo is a prerequisite regardless of what type of football you represent as a manager. I read through this thread (and others) and the same names and the same questions keep popping up: Sanchez, Martial, Rashford, Mata, Pogba Lukaku etc. and the certainty that they can play at a higher tempo. For a transition-based team & manager, these are not the players who set the tempo. The match rhythm is established deeper in the little square of space between the centre-halves and the central midfielders. It's in these specific areas first and foremost that the ball has to move quickly, purposefully and precisely between the lines. When it doesn't and you see the aforementioned attacking players dropping all the way deep just to get on the ball and help it move forward, you know that the main plan has gone out the window.

Why this happens, ask Mourinho. He's been here for two whole seasons and he still trusts the same players. But Mr Entertainment will face the same problems (or similar ones) unless he's allowed to make radical changes in the squad.

 

[Red4Ever]

Mourinho is increasingly resembling Moyes rather than LvG.

Miserable demeanour. Distancing himself from the team and its shambolic performances. Nothing being his fault.

LvG’s football may have been largely depressing, but as a bloke he certainly wasn’t.

Wtf

Moyes lost twice v Everton Liverpool city etc

LVG was depressing as hell btw

 

[Sky1981]

I wonder what would jose critics says when tuchel, sarri, or even poch manages us and still can't get us firing on all cylinders.

Do you judge them on the same standard? Or you'd only using the harsh stick on jose and not anyone else as long as the guy is perceived to be likeable.

 

[Thomas A.Anderson]

The mistake you're making is that you equate the general approach and the tempo of football. I understand why so many people are willing to buy into this, it simply provides a black and white answer: all our woes will instantly go away by a snap of the fingers if Mourinho gets the sack and Mr "scintillating football" comes to Old Trafford. Trust me, they won't.

I'm sure you understand that the notion that a manager like Mourinho, whose core principles revolve around transitioning the ball with speed from one end of the pitch to the other, can't be teaching his back-four and the two central midfielders not to play risky vertical passes between the lines. It doesn't add up. His teams may be pragmatic, his tactics may be reactive and system may prioritize winning with an economy of effort but his best sides were never sluggish on the football pitch.

The same goes for LvG. In the final third of the pitch, he expects clever off the ball movement to create pockets of space, quick thinking, and conviction on the ball. The two times United has faced an LvG side (Barca 1999, Bayern 2010) did we seem to be playing against dull sides or against sides that had their own plan to match us? I guess it's the second.

I agree on one thing though. They both are control freaks in the sense that they have specific instructions they expect their footballers to follow to the letter. In this they are quite similar despite their diffirent approach. LvG's infamous for using numbers (from 1 to 11) instead of his players' names in training and it shows that he's fixed on roles and not on individual skills. He's also the most conservative among the renown possession-based coaches in terms of vertical off the ball movement (keep in mind though that the Cruyffian absolute freedom for the players nowadays is more a concept idea like Plato's state and less something that can actually be applied successfully). I've argued elsewhere that even though SAF and Mourinho share some general principles, like defending in a low block and relying a lot on the counter attacks to exploit open spaces, when it comes to the individual, SAF always showed faith in his players' skills. This is why he was a master at extensive rotation and why his players played in several positions (but they also didn't sulk at the idea of being utilized elsewhere an not in their favourite position). On the other hand, Mourinho likes his specialists, his go-to men who will see that his orders are being carried out to perfection.

But this has nothing to do with the tempo of our football. The ability to play at a higher tempo is a prerequisite regardless of what type of football you represent as a manager. I read through this thread (and others) and the same names and the same questions keep popping up: Sanchez, Martial, Rashford, Mata, Pogba Lukaku etc. and the certainty that they can play at a higher tempo. For a transition-based team & manager, these are not the players who set the tempo. The match rhythm is established deeper in the little square of space between the centre-halves and the central midfielders. It's in these specific areas first and foremost that the ball has to move quickly, purposefully and precisely between the lines. When it doesn't and you see the aforementioned attacking players dropping all the way deep just to get on the ball and help it move forward, you know that the main plan has gone out the window.

Why this happens, ask Mourinho. He's been here for two whole seasons and he still trusts the same players. But Mr Entertainment will face the same problems (or similar ones) unless he's allowed to make radical changes in the squad.

Great post, up until this bit. I think he doesn't trust most of the players. He makes do with what he have. Major, major deadwood shipment is necessary this summer.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Great post, up until this bit. I think he doesn't trust most of the players. He makes do with what he have. Major, major deadwood shipment is necessary this summer.

Fair enough. I don't entirely agree because i expected him to add more quality deeper on the pitch and solve the problem with the width the FBs are supposed to provide. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt one last time because he envisioned his version of United with Pogba next to the holding midfielder and this certainly isn't happening. He admitted it himself when he spoke about addition in the misdfield in the coming transfer window. But he better get it right this time around. Plus the fact that we're talking about shipping out the deadwood after two whole seasons is an indication that he's made quite a few bad choices in his tenure.

 

[r3idy]

I'm not having that comparison of Jose and Moyes. Moyes looked like a Rabbit in the headlights every time he was in front of the camera. He stamped his authority on the club in the wrong way by getting rid of the backroom staff steeped in club tradition and history. He didn't get the name at Everton of Dithering Dave for nothing. His first transfer window set the tone for things to come.

Not sure what is going on behind the scenes but clearly there is something going on. Pogba has gone from one of our performers to a Sunday League footballer in a few short months. Has he fallen out with JM? Has Sanchez upset the balance of the team that much? Maybe it's Woodward being indulged too much on the A list players being bought on reputation rather than what they are doing on the pitch. Maybe JM has just fallen out of love with the game hence him not setting up any kind of semi-permanent roots in Mcr. Who knows, a few more signings of real quality at the back will allow the creative talent to do the business. Oh to be a fly on the wall when Woodward and Arnold are discussing this with the Glazers

 

[haram]

You better watch out, if you keep going, you will be slapped the "We are 2nd" line.

That part of his post doesn’t even make sense.

He said we dont know how to win. That’s different from making a statement on the way we are winning.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think it’s only fair to judge Mourinho from next season. First season we won Europa league, 2nd season lying second in league and still in FA cup. Let’s see if he can top it next season after some (hopefully) smart recruitment this summer

In theory that's pretty reasonable, but Mourinho's history says otherwise. He's always been a second season manager, always. He's never had a particularly good third season anywhere, usually by then he alienates players and the board and results drop and he wins zilch. And we're all seeing signs of all those already.

I feel like our league table position is a bit of a red herring, it might sound odd, because 2nd is good, but it's only really seen as good because he finished in 6th in his first season. It's not like he took over from another manager and improved our position (he actually did the exact opposite in his first season), he's just improved on his own poor first season in the league.

Then there's the tumescent football and flat performances, can we really say we've improved in those from last season? I'd say the only difference is we have players who take their chances much better than last season.

On paper he probably deserves a third season but from watching us and with his history I would hope we don't give him one, but of course we will.

 

[Ramshock]

fecking hell another Jose thread

 

[Canagel]

I found this footage of the WBA game. Honestly watching it from this angle exposes just how bad we were. No excitement, no movement. Nothing. We do not entertain anymore. I ask myself how Mourinho can watch this and be happy with where we're going. We are a LONG way away from reaching the top.

 

[Thomas A.Anderson]

In theory that's pretty reasonable, but Mourinho's history says otherwise. He's always been a second season manager, always. He's never had a particularly good third season anywhere, usually by then he alienates players and the board and results drop and he wins zilch. And we're all seeing signs of all those already.

I feel like our league table position is a bit of a red herring, it might sound odd, because 2nd is good, but it's only really seen as good because he finished in 6th in his first season. It's not like he took over from another manager and improved our position (he actually did the exact opposite in his first season), he's just improved on his own poor first season in the league.

Then there's the tumescent football and flat performances, can we really say we've improved in those from last season? I'd say the only difference is we have players who take their chances much better than last season.

On paper he probably deserves a third season but from watching us and with his history I would hope we don't give him one, but of course we will.

That's really taken out of context.

Porto - no third season because he won everything and moved on.
Chelsea - 3rd season - 2nd in the league, FA Cup Champions, Champions League semifinals
- fired in the 4th season after Abramovich installed Avram Grant and Jose clashed with him
Inter - no third season because he won everything and moved on.
Real Madrid - 2nd in the league, Champions league semifinals
Chelsea - fired in the third season

 

[MUFC OK]

I'd genuinely love for those who moan about our lack of attacking style or 'patterns' (which seems to be this seasons buzzword) to detail Spurs patterns and Fergies late teams pattern of play.

Our last game was shite no to ways about it but i fail to see much difference beyond output in how we ever approached these games. That was the typical shite Fergie game against deep opposition where nothing came off.

Just go into the old matchday forum and you'll see the same complaints as now. Pick nearly any game thread against Blackburn and see how amazing our fans actually thought we were.

Interesting, how do I do this?

 

[londonredmaniac]

I think it’s only fair to judge Mourinho from next season. First season we won Europa league, 2nd season lying second in league and still in FA cup. Let’s see if he can top it next season after some (hopefully) smart recruitment this summer

I agree with that to be fair.

 

[Massive Spanner]

That's really taken out of context.

Porto - no third season because he won everything and moved on.
Chelsea - 3rd season - 2nd in the league, FA Cup Champions, Champions League semifinals
- fired in the 4th season after Abramovich installed Avram Grant and Jose clashed with him
Inter - no third season because he won everything and moved on.
Real Madrid - 2nd in the league, Champions league semifinals
Chelsea - fired in the third season

It's not taken out of context at all.

He has always performed worse in his third season than his second season, always. Sometimes marginally but still worse.

Your post literally proves it.

 

[Member 85611]

Lvg was a top bloke. His press conferences were better than any Netflix show

 

[Thomas A.Anderson]

It's not taken out of context at all.

He has always performed worse in his third season than his second season, always. Sometimes marginally but still worse.

Your post literally proves it.

You said "He's never had a particularly good third season anywhere".

And the context is: he couldn't have had a good season in Porto and Inter because he left. In the first spell in Chelsea he was 2nd behind one of the best United teams ever while reaching CL semifinals, and in Real he was 2nd behind probably the greatest football team ever while reaching CL semifinals. That's the context.

Your sentence only applies for second Chelsea stint.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You said "He's never had a particularly good third season anywhere".

And the context is: he couldn't have had a good season in Porto and Inter because he left. In the first spell in Chelsea he was 2nd behind one of the best United teams ever while reaching CL semifinals, and in Real he was 2nd behind probably the greatest football team ever while reaching CL semifinals. That's the context.

Your sentence only applies for second Chelsea stint.

I should have elaborated then, I meant he never did in contrast to his second seasons , which is the point here. His third seasons have always seen a deterioration in results and performances from his second seasons.

 

[JK-27]

On the face of it, it's difficult to say Mourinho and LVG are similar but Imo the consequences of both ideologies lead to similar problems with the team.
Both managers are very risk averse in that their entire philosophy evolves around reducing mistakes to a bare minimum.
LVG'S idea of reducing mistakes involved around extreme ball circulation with players staying in their positions. While Mourinho's has an extreme fear of his team getting caught out of position or being disorganised.
The result are a team that is frightened of making mistakes and players not moving the ball quickly enough.
I cannot accept that this team doesn't have enough talent to taught to play at a higher tempo. It's simply not possible.

I agree that both managers are risk averse and have a philosphy based on positioning and control of the ball. However, such football has won multiple league titles across the major European leagues (Prem, Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga), Cups, and Champions League. It is winning football that has worked for them for 20 years, and won Jose the Prem as recently as 2015. Over the past 3 years it's won us the FA Cup, League Cup, and Europa League.

Would I prefer quicker play yes, would I prefer a higher tempo yes. Would that mean we win more games, I'd like to think so, but it's not guaranteed. City play high tempo yet are out of the CL. Barca play high tempo yet are out of the CL. Fast paced football is not definitively winning football. Look at the past 4 Prem winning teams, Chelsea twice (not high tempo), Leicester (counter attack), and City (high tempo). We've taken this City side as being the example by which all football should be played, and it's just not true. They played similar football last year and it didn't work out.

 

[sunama]

Mourinho is increasingly resembling Moyes rather than LvG.

Miserable demeanour. Distancing himself from the team and its shambolic performances. Nothing being his fault.

LvG’s football may have been largely depressing, but as a bloke he certainly wasn’t.

Except Jose wins trophies and keeps us near the top of the table. Moyes never got to 2nd place, in his life. LVG peaked in 4th.
And we shouldn't hire people based on their demeanour. This is a results business and being great in front of camera counts for nothing if the results are good/bad.
I honestly can't believe that people want a manager gone, because of the way he looks.
This place is getting ridiculous.

 

[Drz]

It's quite clear he's a crap and outdated attacking coach. His teams have never played good football however I've never had them down as a team who lack goals if that makes sense. However everytime a team give us freedom to show our stuff we fail. It's definitely not the players though as Fergie figured Mourinho out twice the last two times we played them. The last game at Old Trafford we got an early goal and told Madrid have the ball and hurt us. They did frig all and only won with a bit of brilliance from Modric (who came off the bench.. shock horror) helped by a stupid sending off.

It's not a coincidence.

When was he ever considered an attacking coach?

 

[steffyr2]

I found this footage of the WBA game. Honestly watching it from this angle exposes just how bad we were. No excitement, no movement. Nothing. We do not entertain anymore. I ask myself how Mourinho can watch this and be happy with where we're going. We are a LONG way away from reaching the top.

2005 Lost 5 (PL games)
2006 5
2007 5
2008 5
2009 4
2010 7
2011 4
2012 5
2013 5
2014 12
2015 8
2016 10
2017 5 (tied 15) Mourinho's Year 1
2018 6 Mourinho's Year 2

Wow! Who knew? Look, we used to lose games when Sir Alex was the manager! And I bet, taking a leap here, we lost because we played worse than the other team and scored less goals.

Doing the math, if we fired the manager after every loss, we'd be on our 86th manager by now since 2005.

 

[Drz]

Lvg was a top bloke. His press conferences were better than any Netflix show

Seconded. Definitely someone I'd share a pint with. (if only to discuss the repercussions of the recent popularity of sex masochism in our society )

 

[Smores]

Interesting, how do I do this?

If you go into Forums and Man Utd Forum its one of the sticker forums at the top.

Genuinely an interesting read. In 2005 Blackburn match we lost prior to the match you had people moaning about players being played out of position, poor football, not entertaining.

I don't get annoyed at people moaning about the quality of our play as it will 90% of the time be true, its the fact people have false memories of never being dissatisfied previously. You had the same types moaning about the same shit back then and always, when we're not on top there's a barrage of complaints.

 

[AndyJ1985]

The football of both is dull as dishwater, however at least with van gaal you could see there was a systemic place and players were doing what they were instructed. With Mourinho we don't resemble a team that has any idea what it's doing. We look like 11 individuals making it up as they go along. If van gaal had this group of players I expect we'd still finish in the top 4, but we'd be just as boring to watch.

 

[Adam-Utd]

2005 Lost 5 (PL games)
2006 5
2007 5
2008 5
2009 4
2010 7
2011 4
2012 5
2013 5
2014 12
2015 8
2016 10
2017 5 (tied 15) Mourinho's Year 1
2018 6 Mourinho's Year 2

Wow! Who knew? Look, we used to lose games when Sir Alex was the manager! And I bet, taking a leap here, we lost because we played worse than the other team and scored less goals.

Doing the math, if we fired the manager after every loss, we'd be on our 86th manager by now since 2005.

Nobody is moaning about results, but when you've got your 2 closest rivals playing great football, while we are dull as dishwater... you're bound to get people upset.

 

[poleglass red]

2 very good successful managers who didn't/haven't moved with the times. Football changes, they haven't.

 

[Roboc7]

Mourinho is third successive manager who favours negative and defensive tactics. It’s not really surprising we look devoid of any attacking game plan when we don’t have one and haven’t had for years.

When Mourinho leaves, the club need to decide what type of football they want to play and bring in managers, coaches and players to do that. Mourinho isn’t going to change just like LVG and Moyes weren’t going to but decision making process when recruiting a new manager has to going forward.

 

[ROFLUTION]

2 very good successful managers who didn't/haven't moved with the times. Football changes, they haven't.

The Mourinho / Conte approach has won the league 2 out of the last 4 years. Arguably Leicester's way of absorbing and counter-attacking has also been similar.

It's just because it's not working this year people are saying this. Football goes in circles.

Again it has to be mentioned in here: People are so incredibly short-sighted in here.

 

[Get In Scholesy]

Lads, the football won't change under Mourinho - regardless of who else he brings in or sells, respectively.
I have lost hope that he'll deliver quality football over a long period of time.
We have had good games under Moyes, good football under LvG but never CONSISTENTLY.

And now, compare our XIs during those years - Mourinho should be doing much, much better.

Plot twist. Mourinho is doing much, much better.

 

[poleglass red]

The Mourinho / Conte approach has won the league 2 out of the last 4 years. Arguably Leicester's way of absorbing and counter-attacking has also been similar.

It's just because it's not working this year people are saying this. Football goes in circles.

Again it has to be mentioned in here: People are so incredibly short-sighted in here.

it sure does go in circles, Jose sacked by Chelsea, Conte will too at the end of the season or he'll walk. Ranieria at Leicester also sacked.
It's not working this year as City have raised the bar so high.We haven't seem a team so dominant like this before in PL. Not just are City great now, but they will get better. We have to adapt. We will be heading into season 3 still talking about how great Pogba can be become.
Adapt and overcome. We aren't a Leicester or a Chelsea, where a manager comes in and wins a league then is sacked or fecks off. We need sustainability, longevity, right now we don't even know our brand of football.

 

[FreakyJim]

The Mourinho / Conte approach has won the league 2 out of the last 4 years. Arguably Leicester's way of absorbing and counter-attacking has also been similar.

It's just because it's not working this year people are saying this. Football goes in circles.

Again it has to be mentioned in here: People are so incredibly short-sighted in here.

That's true.
We should wait until outdated football comes back in style.