We've had two different managers but same faults. (LVG and Mourinho)

[GiddyUp]

I feel that the ethos of the club isn't instilled in the new players coming to the club. Sure look at our senior players from Ferguson and over three more managers, Smalling/Jones/Valencia/Young/De Gea/Lingard/Carrick. Outside of De Gea and Carrick (one in his own world and the other retiring) I just don't see Manchester United there. Lingard is a special case as Ferguson predicted he would come in to his own about this stage of his career so I would hold judgement on him. Valencia is a mute and very average, Smalling and Jones are tolerable but should be 4th choice and Young is Young.
Maybe this is why are attack looked clueless. Because they are training against these players every day the tricks and flicks must come off and lots of space for Lukaku because of the poor positioning.
I think Mourinho also has to go back to the drawing board for next season. Even though we a defensively solid 95%of the time we give up the easiest chances to our opponents every damn game, much clearer then the ones we create ourselves. It's why we see the best of De Gea and Romero and outside of Bailly I never see us have full control in defense when the ball is on the ground. In the air all our CB's are proficient. We need to concentrate on goals goals goals. From everywhere, every minute, until we drop. Quick transition and one touch passing. Passing in to space so we aren't checking runs. Everyone interchangeable across the line including Lukaku who in my opinion is the teams best crosser.
If we can make it click in attack we can definately compete for the league and CL. Mourinho needs to forget about his "philosophy" as the last two managers fecked us with theirs. If this club and team must face the facts of our shit football then so has Mourinho.

 

[Rash Decision]

The Mourinho / Conte approach has won the league 2 out of the last 4 years. Arguably Leicester's way of absorbing and counter-attacking has also been similar.

It's just because it's not working this year people are saying this. Football goes in circles.

Again it has to be mentioned in here: People are so incredibly short-sighted in here.

I'm not sure if the Mourinho and Conte approaches should be characterised as the same, because one of the big criticisms of Mourinho's approach is his lack of sophisticated attacking coaching. Eden Hazard has said on record that Conte focused more on training attacking patterns than Mourinho did, and last season's Chelsea did look more organised in attack than we currently do, at least in my opinion.

Incidentally, some Chelsea fans on The Shed End have been criticising Conte for becoming too negative in his approach this season as compared to the previous.

 

[NotATroll]

I'm not sure any manager cares about risk. Don't you think after every loss a manager will try to take risk out of the way his team plays, so that they won't concede again? It seems to me that any manager tends towards control, and away from risk. Do you think Pep after the 3-0 Liverpool loss was thinking how much he liked the risk and sure hoped in future games there could be the same level of risk so that his team might be battered again? No, he thought about how to be better in control of the game so as to not give away even the possibility of conceding.

It's not about taking risk, it's about attacking while taking the least amount of risk possible. It's about balance.

 

[Flytan]

What I want to understand is how a manager who prides himself on defense first (and why we seem to fecking suck at attacking) has his team give up so many goals off of set pieces.

 

[Witchking]

Mourinho having no plan is not true in my opinion. Every season he's had some very specific transfertargets and they have usually made us progress.

Its just that the plan is not succesfull against West Brom because Lukaku didnt score on one of his chances - Had he done that, we'd be talking like Liverpool about how next year would be our season. We can't blame him for everything.

This is surely a joke right? So you create one chance against West brom at home. No fluency in attack, no zip in the pass.

Having just a decent shot on target and hoping to score is the plan?

 

[ROFLUTION]

This is surely a joke right? So you create one chance against West brom at home. No fluency in attack, no zip in the pass.

Having just a decent shot on target and hoping to score is the plan?

That's true.
We should wait until outdated football comes back in style.

So Its been outdated for a year. Great! Lets abandon everything because we're not playing exactly like Saint Pep.

Top 6 record: 5-1-3 this season. Very outdated.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

How can you guys not see improvements in the team?

Last year our record was 18-15-5 with 54 goals scored. We finished 6th.
This year so far after 33 games our record is 22-5-6 with 63 goals scored. We are on target for 2nd. 2 out of the 3 teams that scored more than us are behind us. It's more than just who scores more.

We are also in semi final FA cup.

Yes, there are a few wrinkles left and a few bad games but overall we are clearly improving. Let's see how we do next year.

 

[whatwha]

How can you guys not see improvements in the team?

Last year our record was 18-15-5 with 54 goals scored. We finished 6th.
This year so far after 33 games our record is 22-5-6 with 63 goals scored. We are on target for 2nd. 2 out of the 3 teams that scored more than us are behind us. It's more than just who scores more.

We are also in semi final FA cup.

Yes, there are a few wrinkles left and a few bad games but overall we are clearly improving. Let's see how we do next year.

Hard to value the improvements stat-wise when much of the football is so shite.

 

[Stuart Andrew]

Think I'll look forward to the ladies V1. Got to be more exciting than the rubbish we're seeing at mo

 

[Zarlak]

Lads, the football won't change under Mourinho - regardless of who else he brings in or sells, respectively.
I have lost hope that he'll deliver quality football over a long period of time.
We have had good games under Moyes, good football under LvG but never CONSISTENTLY.

And now, compare our XIs during those years - Mourinho should be doing much, much better.

It was some of the worst and most boring football I'd ever seen in my life.

 

[AndyJ1985]

How can you guys not see improvements in the team?

Last year our record was 18-15-5 with 54 goals scored. We finished 6th.
This year so far after 33 games our record is 22-5-6 with 63 goals scored. We are on target for 2nd. 2 out of the 3 teams that scored more than us are behind us. It's more than just who scores more.

We are also in semi final FA cup.

Yes, there are a few wrinkles left and a few bad games but overall we are clearly improving. Let's see how we do next year.

The stats crowd will be happy no doubt. But to people who enjoy watching football and being entertained there's been no improvement at all. That's the crux of the argument and stats are irrelevant to it.

 

[Gegenpress]

I think Mourinho does himself no favours at all with all the bs in the media, publically criticising the players whilst promoting his past success. If He wants to have a go at the players, do it behind closed doors, I don’t get the logic behind it. In my opinion it turns fans and players against him and there is no need for it. He seems like a very intelligent man, so why he can’t grasp this I don’t know, perhaps too stubborn and set in his ways to change. I’m a serial champion, why should I change?

He needs time to rebuild the squad, and to be given time he will need to keep the fans / players on his side. I think a lot of fans have turned against him already and it seems to me his idea of a rebuild is to throw as much cash at it as he can with no eye towards the future.

Take Sánchez as the case in point, on silly money and blocking Rashford / Martial. It’s not the fans money at the end of the day and some fans don’t / won’t care but for me, it’s nice too see your manager taking care of the club and having a very clear plan. I really do prefer the long-term approach, if it takes a few years longer, but there are clear signs the project Is moving in the right direction, perfect. You can’t just say these players are crap, I need another few hundred million. Well I supppose you can, but it makes you a cheque book manager.

The club is a business at the end of the day, so if you can bring success without throwing endless cash at it, then you protect the long-term health of the club and if you care for your club, that is what you should want?

Too many want instant gratification in this day and age. Fergie would have been sacked at United if he started at United the way he did in the modern era.

Mourinho is a dead man walking unless he somehow turns it all around next season, I can’t see it personally, but he is capable of it, time will tell. It was always going to be difficult for whoever took over living in Fergie’s shadow, at least mourning does have the confidence / arrogance for that too not bother him as much as it might other managers.

I think Klopp would be perfect for you guys, or a clone of him because you can’t have him

You see Klopp playing bowls with the locals, drinking beer in the town etc- integrating himself into the culture, Mourinho is in a hotel, what sort of message does that send out?I don’t know if Klopp does it for PR or because he is a genuinely nice bloke, the latter I think, but as fans we have taken him to our heart. He is one of us, and we love him for it and as a consequence he will be afforded all the time he wants to complete his project, smart guy. Dread the day he decides to leave, because of all the reasons mentioned above he won’t be sacked, he seems to know when the best time to leave is, Dortmund fans and most Germans worship him, as we do now.

Klopp really is the opposite to Mourinho, his confidence is not from ego, just pure confidence. instead of promoting himself, he talks about how rubbish he was as a player. He is humble and good guy, but he certainly has an anger and his passion is clear, players not only respect him but love him. If you offered me a swap for Mourinho for Klopp, I’d tell you to feck off instantly, would not even waste a few seconds thinking about it. Guys a self-serving man trading on previous success, I hand on heart mean no offence to anyone by that.

 

[Rash Decision]

It was some of the worst and most boring football I'd ever seen in my life.

There was a short stretch of pretty good football in his first season.

 

[The_Order]

Great post, up until this bit. I think he doesn't trust most of the players. He makes do with what he have. Major, major deadwood shipment is necessary this summer.

We've been saying this for 3-4 years now.

I don't know...

For every step forward we take we seem to regress one back.

No matter how you spin it, Mourinho needs fresh ideas. Or at the very least a system that forces his players to recycle the ball quicker further up the pitch.

What is the point in spending the GDP of a small nation on finesse skillful players when you feel you can only trust grafters and runners.

 

[roonster09]

It doesn't make any sense to give advantage to one team in semi finals. This game is a farce, they should have moved to neutral venue rather than playing in Spurs' home.

We would have had a good chance of beating them in neutral ground, at home they are favourites.

 

[STYLOISRED]

Thank God for the ignore thread feature!

 

[Zlatattack]

No wingers, not decent attacking fullbacks.

The only reason we get the ball wide is because our team is quite narrow at the front, the early balls and build up play ends up quite central, the opposition sits tight and compact, we find nowhere to go and end up passing it wide to try and get a cross in.

If we had proper attacking full backs or natural wingers (we have on the left but not on the right), we could have an attacking threat outwide, which would stretch teams, which would mean all our quality players in the centre would actually have room in the final third.

 

[Bestietom]

I would expect a big Transfer window this summer. A few Swap/Exchange deals.

 

[AshRK]

Jose is far from perfect but he has improved us immensely since he took over.

 

[Jaap]

It was some of the worst and most boring football I'd ever seen in my life.

Yes but there WERE good games: 4-0 v Stoke at home, 3-0 v Spurs, 4-2 v City, but, yes, there also were so many boring ones under Louis.

 

[RedStarUnited]

What I want to understand is how a manager who prides himself on defense first (and why we seem to fecking suck at attacking) has his team give up so many goals off of set pieces.

The elephant in the room question right here. Its been 2 years and we are still so bad at it.

 

[Drz]

Yes but there WERE good games: 4-0 v Stoke at home, 3-0 v Spurs, 4-2 v City, but, yes, there also were so many boring ones under Louis.

Ohh it is pretty clear there is a double-standard when it comes to comparing Mou to LvG.
LvG gets called-out for "long-ball dinosaur football" because of one or two diagonals played into Fellaini (of which one ended up in a goal), but Mourinho is allowed to make it our go-to strategy yet the media and fans are now ok with it.
LvG gets accused of throwing academy players on the pitch with a hit or miss approach, Mourinho does the same but by spending millions because he is a cheque-book manager, yet that is presented as clearing the deadwood apparently.

 

[Dion]

Ohh it is pretty clear there is a double-standard when it comes to comparing Mou to LvG.
LvG gets called-out for "long-ball dinosaur football" because of one or two diagonals played into Fellaini (of which one ended up in a goal), but Mourinho is allowed to make it our go-to strategy yet the media and fans are now ok with it.
LvG gets accused of throwing academy players on the pitch with a hit or miss approach, Mourinho does the same but by spending millions because he is a cheque-book manager, yet that is presented as clearing the deadwood apparently.

That didn't happen. That few game stretch where he found out you could bypass the press by lumping it to Fellaini was the most exciting football we played under LvG. What he was criticised for way a boring, insipid sideways passing out from the back with no plan style. That and a massive lack of goals.

 

[Drz]

That didn't happen. That few game stretch where he found out you could bypass the press by lumping it to Fellaini was the most exciting football we played under LvG. What he was criticised for way a boring, insipid sideways passing out from the back with no plan style. That and a massive lack of goals.

Oh so the press conference where he felt forced to prove that he didn't systematically resort to long balls didn't happen? Only for the media to even mock him having to defend that.

I feel sorry if that is what excited you about LvG, I disagree entirely though, there was stuff I didn't like, but what excited me was the prospect of watching two young lads grow into their own and develop an understanding on the pitch, opposition defenses from Man City to relegation fodder had a hard time dealing with them.

 

[shamans]

Mourinho has his mistakes but LVG was a joke. Tbh I am not convinced Mourinho will make us a winning team but I’d do anything to have him here if it meant reliving Van Gaal again

 

[el3mel]

Oh so the press conference where he felt forced to prove that he didn't systematically resort to long balls didn't happen? Only for the media to even mock him having to defend that.

I feel sorry if that is what excited you about LvG, I disagree entirely though, there was stuff I didn't like, but what excited me was the prospect of watching two young lads grow into their own and develop an understanding on the pitch, opposition defenses from Man City to relegation fodder had a hard time dealing with them.

Meh. This excuse for LVG has got too old I reckon. He was only playing young players due to the massive amount of injuries. Look at his lineups when his squad was full and good luck finding as many academy players starting. Look at the main lineup of the FA Cup final when most of the squad was ready, how many academy players did he play in the most important match of the season. He wasn't discovering anyone, was just getting players from the academy to compensate for all the injuries then throw all of them and wait for someone to shine so that he gets credit for it. Much like when he was changing the players positions all the time waiting for something like Bastian at Bayern happens so he take credit from it. No planning whatsoever.

Now to save his face, he went on to say he reduced the number of players in squad to give more chances for young players, that didn't go long enough as he went on after we lost 3-0 to Spurs saying they have better and more creative players than us.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/manchest...-more-creative-players-than-manchester-united

Also started the season by saying this :

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...hester-united-creativity-aguero-hazzard-messi

Then went on to feck up a transfer summer and when loads of injuries happen and he was forced to play youngsters and surprisingly about one only of the loads of players ended up succeeding ( Rashford and even that one wasn't planned for, he recalled Will Keane back during Jan to be the sub striker and his injury forced him to give Rashford a chance ), he went on to say it was all his plans bla bla bla. The guy was all about tacking credit from almost every situation for himself.

 

[Drz]

I think Mourinho does himself no favours at all with all the bs in the media,

I don't know, whilst I don't buy his spiel, clearly many do. I wished we'd have had a poll on here to gage how many bought into his claims that he'd use the mid-week game to select players for the game vs Tottenham? Did anyone actually think that Sanchez' position in that team was under threat?
When you look at the amount who have bought into Martial now having a bad attitude, I think he is doing well manipulating the discourse to his convenience.

 

[Drz]

Meh. This excuse for LVG has got too old I reckon. He was only playing young players due to the massive amount of injuries. Look at his lineups when his squad was full and good luck finding as many academy players starting. Look at the main lineup of the FA Cup final when most of the squad was ready, how many academy players did he play in the most important match of the season. He wasn't discovering anyone, was just getting players from the academy to compensate for all the injuries then throw all of them and wait for someone to shine so that he gets credit for it. Much like when he was changing the players positions all the time waiting for something like Bastian at Bayern happens so he take credit from it. No planning whatsoever.

Now to save his face, he went on to say he reduced the number of players in squad to give more chances for young players, that didn't go long enough as he went on after we lost 3-0 to Spurs saying they have better and more creative players than us.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/manchest...-more-creative-players-than-manchester-united

Also started the season by saying this :

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...hester-united-creativity-aguero-hazzard-messi

Then went on to feck up a transfer summer and when loads of injuries happen and he was forced to play youngsters and surprisingly about one only of the loads of players ended up succeeding ( Rashford and even that one wasn't planned for, he recalled Will Keane back during Jan to be the sub striker and his injury forced him to give Rashford a chance ), he went on to say it was all his plans bla bla bla. The guy was all about tacking credit from almost every situation for himself.

Oh I'm not disagreeing one bit with the fact that he was forced into using youngsters, so I'm totally fine with not giving him credit for that.
But the pendulum swings both ways for me, am I impressed by the results Mourinho has got over the past two years? No. why? because they stem from individual feats of brilliance coming from expensive players bought-in and trained/educated elsewhere. I mean we hardly look like a team that trains together.
For instance, just go back to the game vs Tottenham, I think we only worked the ball well out of defense twice or three times max, in the second half too, that doesn't to me look like a team that has been training together for 24months...
There are positives, but I have never/and probably will never be a fan of the galactico model, and that is what we are becoming: a hybrid between Real and Chelsea.

 

[el3mel]

Oh I'm not disagreeing one bit with the fact that he was forced into using youngsters, so I'm totally fine with not giving him credit for that.
But the pendulum swings both ways for me, am I impressed by the results Mourinho has got over the past two years? No. why? because they stem from individual feats of brilliance coming from expensive players bought-in and trained/educated elsewhere. I mean we hardly look like a team that trains together.
For instance, just go back to the game vs Tottenham, I think we only worked the ball well out of defense twice or three times max, in the second half too, that doesn't to me look like a team that has been training together for 24months...
There are positives, but I have never/and probably will never be a fan of the galactico model, and that is what we are becoming: a hybrid between Real and Chelsea.

The fact that you're not impressed enough with finishing second, winning 2 trophies and getting to Fa Cup final proves that Mourinho has raised your standards again to what they were under SAF, which is a sign of success. The 2 seasons with LVG we were talking about ambition to finish top 4 and scrap a Cup. We considered 2014/2015 a good season because we scrapped 4th. Hell look at what LVG said in the second link of my previous post :

"In the end you always have to evaluate which players have contributed to our fourth place, which players a little bit and which players no contribution and then you make decisions but you make decisions on facts and not on other things.”

"Players contributed to our 4th place" LMAO he's talking about it like some sort of achievement that he needs to see which players did it, not to mention this side had Rooney, RVP, Mata, Di Maria, Falcao in the attack at this time. LVG went with our standards down hill and fans also went with their standards and were starting to consider a 4th position is a good season.

Mourinho has raised your expectations again to what they were under Fergie when second spot alone isn't enough. You're entitled to not be happy with finishing second or winning some cups but if that proves anything it proves that we're moving in the right direction and we're starting to think like a big club again.

 

[Sky1981]

Some of you just cant enjoy the fact that we're in a cup final, again this year. I thought moyes has taught us not to take things for granted and we're not that big to fail.

 

[12Aniram]

In my opinion Jose has done remarkably well to ensure we are where we are today.
I´m not sure how much say he has on our player purchases but he will always have competition from those who want, indeed need for commercial reasons, stars who can enhance the brand.
My hope is that he can change his style to embrace the new signings and they in turn can buy into Jose´s planning.

We want a synergistic effect from the individual players not a clash of ideals which result in less teamwork and more discord.
Change will happen and I for one am optomistic Jose can manage the change in a constructive manner but it will take more time and hopefully more player purchases that suit the manager as well as the bank balance.

Apologies if player purchases are solely Jose choices.

 

[Drz]

The fact that you're not impressed enough with finishing second, winning 2 trophies and getting to Fa Cup final proves that Mourinho has raised your standards again to what they were under SAF, which is a sign of success. The 2 seasons with LVG we were talking about ambition to finish top 4 and scrap a Cup. We considered 2014/2015 a good season because we scrapped 4th. Hell look at what LVG said in the second link of my previous post :



"Players contributed to our 4th place" LMAO he's talking about it like some sort of achievement that he needs to see which players did it, not to mention this side had Rooney, RVP, Mata, Di Maria, Falcao in the attack at this time. LVG went with our standards down hill and fans also went with their standards and were starting to consider a 4th position is a good season.

Mourinho has raised your expectations again to what they were under Fergie when second spot alone isn't enough. You're entitled to not be happy with finishing second or winning some cups but if that proves anything it proves that we're moving in the right direction and we're starting to think like a big club again.

I was not impressed by finishing 6th in his first season, or the fact that he had to "prioritize" to win a cup to save us from not being qualified for the champions league, even though nothing in our performances justified us being part of the elite competition.
I am not impressed by a manager that sets us up to play like cowards on a loop, I understand being pragmatic specifically, but a cowardly performance vs the mighty Newcastle, Sevilla, Burnley etc...lol
The quality of hoof-ball is up there with the best, we put Stoke to shame.

As for ambitions under LvG, it seems everyone is deriving what they want, my ambition for any manager that takes the helm of this club is to build a team for winning the league by playing football and winning a football game for me is about creating chances to score to win the game, so I'm more than willing to give a manager trophy-less time if we are going in that direction.
I don't feel that is the case today, every match is prefaced by the manager telling us in his presser about how difficult it is going to be lol some standards those are: "Hold on boys, get your thinking caps on, we got West Brom away and I'm a billion pounds short in talent to keep up"

What big club actually aspires to play football the Mourinho way? Bayern? no, Barca ? no, Real ? doubt they will try that again lol PSG? no. City? no.

The second part of your post regarding what LvG said: I'm not going to defend a so called manager that sold Chicharito, Nani, RvP but kept Rooney lol for that alone he deserved the sack.
My point is that the assessment of Mourinho is skewed because of his fame, and the famous players he somehow attracts particularly compared to how LvG was treated.

Ie: my point about LvG making a sackable offense by keeping Rooney and offloading RvP, Kagawa, Chicharito & Nani, I could be just as ruthless with regards to Mourinho. I mean how am I supposed to qualify a manager that automatically selects a player on the left wing when the best player for said position is ostracized?
When our team is starving for creativity, chances created, offensive impetus, should I buy into his spiel that a player contributing in that sens should actually be defending more??? lol
I was desperate for us to be rid of Rooney, and now we have the Chilean version of that headless chicken lol... ok maybe a bit harsh, both players I loved, Rooney pre-Bayern injury and Sanchez during his Udinese years...

I don't see the standards you are talking about, aspiring to win second-rate cups à la Greece is not a project for a football club, it can be for a national team with limited resources, but not for a FC of our stature.

Just some time back, someone with probably a lot more insight than myself, posted a video of our previous chairman (Martin Edwards I think, I didn't particularly know him prior to this video) who was explaining why he sacked big Ron. I don't know if it was posted on purpose, but I felt like his comments perfectly suited where we are today.

Apologies If i seemed rude, just calling it as I see it, between the blatant attempts at fooling the public, the systemic bashing of our players, the petty ostracizing of anything previous managers brought-in regardless of what is true/useful... all that to serve a "type" of football starved of any form of team cohesion, collective ability, attacking prowess is just not impressive in my eyes.
Again returning to standards, 2nd rate cups is not the United standard, at least for me, neither is a cowardly approach to games, neither is Stoke-football... The cups are a nice addition if your team is playing the right way, showing signs of collective cohesion, attacking finesse, but just failing in terms of consistency necessary to win the league, which is and forever will be THE competition to win in England because it is a marathon. But that is simply not our case from what I see.

 

[el3mel]

I was not impressed by finishing 6th in his first season, or the fact that he had to "prioritize" to win a cup to save us from not being qualified for the champions league, even though nothing in our performances justified us being part of the elite competition.
I am not impressed by a manager that sets us up to play like cowards on a loop, I understand being pragmatic specifically, but a cowardly performance vs the mighty Newcastle, Sevilla, Burnley etc...lol
The quality of hoof-ball is up there with the best, we put Stoke to shame.

As for ambitions under LvG, it seems everyone is deriving what they want, my ambition for any manager that takes the helm of this club is to build a team for winning the league by playing football and winning a football game for me is about creating chances to score to win the game, so I'm more than willing to give a manager trophy-less time if we are going in that direction.
I don't feel that is the case today, every match is prefaced by the manager telling us in his presser about how difficult it is going to be lol some standards those are: "Hold on boys, get your thinking caps on, we got West Brom away and I'm a billion pounds short in talent to keep up"

What big club actually aspires to play football the Mourinho way? Bayern? no, Barca ? no, Real ? doubt they will try that again lol PSG? no. City? no.

The second part of your post regarding what LvG said: I'm not going to defend a so called manager that sold Chicharito, Nani, RvP but kept Rooney lol for that alone he deserved the sack.
My point is that the assessment of Mourinho is skewed because of his fame, and the famous players he somehow attracts particularly compared to how LvG was treated.

Ie: my point about LvG making a sackable offense by keeping Rooney and offloading RvP, Kagawa, Chicharito & Nani, I could be just as ruthless with regards to Mourinho. I mean how am I supposed to qualify a manager that automatically selects a player on the left wing when the best player for said position is ostracized?
When our team is starving for creativity, chances created, offensive impetus, should I buy into his spiel that a player contributing in that sens should actually be defending more??? lol
I was desperate for us to be rid of Rooney, and now we have the Chilean version of that headless chicken lol... ok maybe a bit harsh, both players I loved, Rooney pre-Bayern injury and Sanchez during his Udinese years...

I don't see the standards you are talking about, aspiring to win second-rate cups à la Greece is not a project for a football club, it can be for a national team with limited resources, but not for a FC of our stature.

Just some time back, someone with probably a lot more insight than myself, posted a video of our previous chairman (Martin Edwards I think, I didn't particularly know him prior to this video) who was explaining why he sacked big Ron. I don't know if it was posted on purpose, but I felt like his comments perfectly suited where we are today.

Apologies If i seemed rude, just calling it as I see it, between the blatant attempts at fooling the public, the systemic bashing of our players, the petty ostracizing of anything previous managers brought-in regardless of what is true/useful... all that to serve a "type" of football starved of any form of team cohesion, collective ability, attacking prowess is just not impressive in my eyes.
Again returning to standards, 2nd rate cups is not the United standard, at least for me, neither is a cowardly approach to games, neither is Stoke-football... The cups are a nice addition if your team is playing the right way, showing signs of collective cohesion, attacking finesse, but just failing in terms of consistency necessary to win the league, which is and forever will be THE competition to win in England because it is a marathon. But that is simply not our case from what I see.

I think you're just looking at the negative sides of Mourinho reign so far tbh. Surely he has to be blamed for games like Newcastle, Sevilla, WBA .. etc but why are you focusing on these only ? You're not impressed so far but I can say it in a different perspective :

1) I'm impressed that he had won 2 trophies in his first season after getting such a terrible squad LVG left, one of them is a European one. Surely winning a European trophy is much better than finishing 4th only.

2) I'm impressed by how quickly he evolved the quality of the squad. When he got the team our 2 best players were 2 inconsistent youngsters and we were shoehorning Rooney in midfield. In 2 years we now have Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Matic. Most of them wouldn't have come without a big name as Mourinho at the helm.

3) I'm impressed by that we're going to finish in top 2 for the first time since 2013. That we're going to break the 80 points in the league for the first time since SAF left, while the best we had achieved the last 4 years was 70 points and 4th place.

4) I'm impressed by defeating all big clubs this season in the league, including defeating the great City and Arsenal on their pitches and defeating all the league teams at least once in this season.

5) I'm impressed by the character of the team returning from being down quickly to the game now like the old days. In the last 2 months we made 4 impressive comebacks, 3 of them are against top clubs, Chelsea, Palace, City and Spurs. We forgot what does this means post SAF. Surely you can't say this character isn't installed in the players by the manager, as it was non existent under LVG and Moyes.

6) I'm impressed by us reaching 3 finals in 2 years.

There're loads of positives in this period. By no means Mourinho reign has been 10/10, but you're only looking at negatives if you ask me. Try to take a look at everything from both sides at least.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I think you're just looking at the negative sides of Mourinho reign so far tbh. Surely he has to be blamed for games like Newcastle, Sevilla, WBA .. etc but why are you focusing on these only ? You're not impressed so far but I can say it in a different perspective :

1) I'm impressed that he had won 2 trophies in his first season after getting such a terrible squad LVG left, one of them is a European one. Surely winning a European trophy is much better than finishing 4th only.

2) I'm impressed by how quickly he evolved the quality of the squad. When he got the team our 2 best players were 2 inconsistent youngsters and we were shoehorning Rooney in midfield. In 2 years we now have Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Matic. Most of them wouldn't have come without a big name as Mourinho at the helm.

3) I'm impressed by that we're going to finish in top 2 for the first time since 2013. That we're going to break the 80 points in the league for the first time since SAF left, while the best we had achieved the last 4 years was 70 points and 4th place.

4) I'm impressed by defeating all big clubs this season in the league, including defeating the great City and Arsenal on their pitches and defeating all the league teams at least once in this season.

5) I'm impressed by the character of the team returning from being down quickly to the game now like the old days. In the last 2 months we made 4 impressive comebacks, 3 of them are against top clubs, Chelsea, Palace, City and Spurs. We forgot what does this means post SAF. Surely you can't say this character isn't installed in the players by the manager, as it was non existent under LVG and Moyes.

6) I'm impressed by us reaching 3 finals in 2 years.

There're loads of positives in this period. By no means Mourinho reign has been 10/10, but you're only looking at negatives if you ask me. Try to take a look at everything from both sides at least.

Great post.

As you say, you can concentrate solely on the negatives, in which case Spurs fans could be writing posts like Drz above. I prefer to concentrate on the positives and there have been many in Mourinho's two seasons so far. We fell hard after SAF, much harder than any of us ever expected yet our third manager since then is slowly but surely getting us back to where we should be considering the size of the club and the money we spend.

 

[Drz]

I think you're just looking at the negative sides of Mourinho reign so far tbh. Surely he has to be blamed for games like Newcastle, Sevilla, WBA .. etc but why are you focusing on these only ? You're not impressed so far but I can say it in a different perspective :

1) I'm impressed that he had won 2 trophies in his first season after getting such a terrible squad LVG left, one of them is a European one. Surely winning a European trophy is much better than finishing 4th only.

2) I'm impressed by how quickly he evolved the quality of the squad. When he got the team our 2 best players were 2 inconsistent youngsters and we were shoehorning Rooney in midfield. In 2 years we now have Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Matic. Most of them wouldn't have come without a big name as Mourinho at the helm.

3) I'm impressed by that we're going to finish in top 2 for the first time since 2013. That we're going to break the 80 points in the league for the first time since SAF left, while the best we had achieved the last 4 years was 70 points and 4th place.

4) I'm impressed by defeating all big clubs this season in the league, including defeating the great City and Arsenal on their pitches and defeating all the league teams at least once in this season.

5) I'm impressed by the character of the team returning from being down quickly to the game now like the old days. In the last 2 months we made 4 impressive comebacks, 3 of them are against top clubs, Chelsea, Palace, City and Spurs. We forgot what does this means post SAF. Surely you can't say this character isn't installed in the players by the manager, as it was non existent under LVG and Moyes.

6) I'm impressed by us reaching 3 finals in 2 years.

There're loads of positives in this period. By no means Mourinho reign has been 10/10, but you're only looking at negatives if you ask me. Try to take a look at everything from both sides at least.

I'll take your points and not be nit-picky I hope you are right, let's just win this FA cup final and hopefully work in the summer (World Cup permitting) on the fluidity of our game.
Mourinho's teams at Real and Chelsea during the title winning season, had spells where they played some really good football, I wish he can instil that on a sustainable basis at United. Let's see.

 

[Garethw]

I was not impressed by finishing 6th in his first season, or the fact that he had to "prioritize" to win a cup to save us from not being qualified for the champions league, even though nothing in our performances justified us being part of the elite competition.
I am not impressed by a manager that sets us up to play like cowards on a loop, I understand being pragmatic specifically, but a cowardly performance vs the mighty Newcastle, Sevilla, Burnley etc...lol
The quality of hoof-ball is up there with the best, we put Stoke to shame.

As for ambitions under LvG, it seems everyone is deriving what they want, my ambition for any manager that takes the helm of this club is to build a team for winning the league by playing football and winning a football game for me is about creating chances to score to win the game, so I'm more than willing to give a manager trophy-less time if we are going in that direction.
I don't feel that is the case today, every match is prefaced by the manager telling us in his presser about how difficult it is going to be lol some standards those are: "Hold on boys, get your thinking caps on, we got West Brom away and I'm a billion pounds short in talent to keep up"

What big club actually aspires to play football the Mourinho way? Bayern? no, Barca ? no, Real ? doubt they will try that again lol PSG? no. City? no.

The second part of your post regarding what LvG said: I'm not going to defend a so called manager that sold Chicharito, Nani, RvP but kept Rooney lol for that alone he deserved the sack.
My point is that the assessment of Mourinho is skewed because of his fame, and the famous players he somehow attracts particularly compared to how LvG was treated.

Ie: my point about LvG making a sackable offense by keeping Rooney and offloading RvP, Kagawa, Chicharito & Nani, I could be just as ruthless with regards to Mourinho. I mean how am I supposed to qualify a manager that automatically selects a player on the left wing when the best player for said position is ostracized?
When our team is starving for creativity, chances created, offensive impetus, should I buy into his spiel that a player contributing in that sens should actually be defending more??? lol
I was desperate for us to be rid of Rooney, and now we have the Chilean version of that headless chicken lol... ok maybe a bit harsh, both players I loved, Rooney pre-Bayern injury and Sanchez during his Udinese years...

I don't see the standards you are talking about, aspiring to win second-rate cups à la Greece is not a project for a football club, it can be for a national team with limited resources, but not for a FC of our stature.

Just some time back, someone with probably a lot more insight than myself, posted a video of our previous chairman (Martin Edwards I think, I didn't particularly know him prior to this video) who was explaining why he sacked big Ron. I don't know if it was posted on purpose, but I felt like his comments perfectly suited where we are today.

Apologies If i seemed rude, just calling it as I see it, between the blatant attempts at fooling the public, the systemic bashing of our players, the petty ostracizing of anything previous managers brought-in regardless of what is true/useful... all that to serve a "type" of football starved of any form of team cohesion, collective ability, attacking prowess is just not impressive in my eyes.
Again returning to standards, 2nd rate cups is not the United standard, at least for me, neither is a cowardly approach to games, neither is Stoke-football... The cups are a nice addition if your team is playing the right way, showing signs of collective cohesion, attacking finesse, but just failing in terms of consistency necessary to win the league, which is and forever will be THE competition to win in England because it is a marathon. But that is simply not our case from what I see.

You’re banging your head against a brick wall in here mate. I’m with you 100% by the way, but the Mourinho worshipers wont have a word said against him.

 

[Drz]

You’re banging your head against a brick wall in here mate. I’m with you 100% by the way, but the Mourinho worshipers wont have a word said against him.

There are worshipers and there are people who see the glass half full. There are positives. For instance, I'd rather be with a manager I disagree with whilst winning trophies than a manager I disagree with without the trophies. If there is a message I'd repeat is the importance of the league over cups. I might be mistaken but I always took "he is tournament manager" as a criticism not a compliment, sort of a veiled dig, that he can't produce the goods to deliver a league title... (that isn't Mourinho's case, because as he'd remind you himself, he has been there done that, so he defo has at least parts of the formula) but just to say the league matters a lot in my eyes.
So 2nd in the league, which has improved in quality since 2014-2015, has to mean something, but we already need to be working on improving (notably our gameplay), because football moves really fast these days. And there is the question of is our accomplishment this year sustainable, or if it owed too much to individual brilliance?

But going back to the thread topic, I also wanted to highlight that I felt we are more lenient with Mourinho than we were with LvG where attempts were made to ridicule him for any detail. But this is better, LvG turned to distasteful too quick for me to the point I pitied him (despite also hating him for keeping Rooney a season too many, so it balanced out I guess ).

Back on Mourinho.
Some things I really wished stopped, I just saw "The Feud" video on the other thread and Keown's only interesting input for me was a reminder that Giggs started That FA Semi Final on the bench, worried Giggsy would rip him apart coming on in the second half as he tired. The rest is history. But what would you think Sir Alex would have said about that Giggs goal, complimented him and encouraged him? Or explained in minutia how it is only normal because the players that started wore his mark down? (For the record its true obviously, but this is about man-management and communication).

 

[sunama]

Some of you just cant enjoy the fact that we're in a cup final, again this year. I thought moyes has taught us not to take things for granted and we're not that big to fail.

There are "fans" here who simply do not want to see Jose succeed.
These people probably cried themselves to sleep last season when we won 2 trophies and will do so next season, when we win the league title.
And as for the FA Cup SF against Spurs: many on here want Poch to replace Jose. When Jose schooled Poch a few days ago, many a salty tear would've been shed.
I also noticed and commented in the match day thread for Spurs that there were very few people commenting in that thread. Again, the reason for this is that many "fans" were probably pissed off that Jose won and Poch lost.
My suspicion is that a lot of these "fans" are not fans at all, but are MCFC and LFC supporters who are making accounts on this forum.

Given the above, I hope you can understand why so many people are miserable over the fact that we are in another Cup final.

 

[sunama]

You’re banging your head against a brick wall in here mate. I’m with you 100% by the way, but the Mourinho worshipers wont have a word said against him.

It's not Jose worship.
It's what I call backing a manager, players and team who are doing a good job. They are doing better this season than we have for the last 4 years and for that, i will back, support and encourage them.
If all you get from watching MUFC is negativity, then maybe it's best you support Spurs, MCFC or whichever club you enjoy watching.

 

[Garethw]

It's not Jose worship.
It's what I call backing a manager, players and team who are doing a good job. They are doing better this season than we have for the last 4 years and for that, i will back, support and encourage them.
If all you get from watching MUFC is negativity, then maybe it's best you support Spurs, MCFC or whichever club you enjoy watching.

I’ve supported Manchester United for over 30 years and have spent thousands following them all over the world, so please don’t tell me who to support.

In my opinion Mourinho is completely the wrong person for the job. My loyalty lies with the club not with a manager that will throw Manchester United under the bus as soon as he doesn’t get his own way.