What’s more important for United to you, a Trophy or top 5 CL qualification?

Chumpsbechumps

Full Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
Messages
4,059
Having a discussion with a Spurs mate who is ok with spurs sacking Ange, regardless of Europa final. It’s not like spurs have a full trophy cabinet so I’d of thought fans would be somewhat conflicted if they won . Im not trying to make this about managers , more about what fans actually value in the game.

That FA cup win last year and possibly winning the Europa this year will probably be the most satisfying moments since Ferguson left. That 5-4 win this season will be hard to forget , regardless of the final.

Many will say “United still should have sacked ETH straight after the cup”. Fair enough, but would fans of preferred we had an entirely different manager, maybe looked like a decent top 4 team with no other prospects other then maybe we are starting to build something ?

I know it doesn’t have to be one or the other, but surely enjoying the occasion and succes is more important then constantly looking to the next season ?

So, what is it about for you? For me, I wouldn’t swap the last two seasons memorable moments for top 4 comfort. I get the financial logic and that the team has never looked so off challanging in the top trophies, but I watch the game to be entertained, not to demand perfection and expect to be always there or there abouts.

I remember when the FA cup final was massive in a good way. It wasn’t about money or even getting European spot, it was just about enjoying the journey and hoping for silverware. I think this has been lost with the promise of “bigger budgets next season” nearly exciting fans over winning cups.

As it stands, if you gave me option of Europa spot by winning fa cup next year or distant off top 3rd/4th/5th in league and champs league, I’d take Fa cup win.
 
Trophies, no one remembers 2nd place. You only want top 5 because it's a chance of trophy, therefore trophy...
 
Trophies are why you play sport so should always be important, if your winning or chasing the PL to the last couple of game weeks you should be concentrating on trophies.
 
Liverpool winning the league and cementing their place as the most successful English club stings.

Trophies are what you’re measured by, there’s no table for second place, third, fourth, fitfth, etc
 
First rate trophies (PL/CL) > Qualification for contesting first rate trophies > Second rate trophies > Supercup trophies.
 
Regardless what anyone says, it will always boil down to trophies.

Ole is the only manager who got us finishing top 3 consecutively for two seasons, in his only two full seasons with us as a manager, and all anyone ever talk about is that EL final lost to Villarreal as if Ole is a shit manager who is way out of his league.
 
Trophies, but they shouldn't be mutually exclusive
 
CL > League title > Europa League > Fa cup > top 4 (5) > Conference > League Cup.

For smaller leagues, I would swap the conference and put it in front of the local cup and the CL position (that's usually the second place of the league).
 
Champions League qualification and some stability, definitely not 15th place finishes. Europa League does not count as a trophy for me. We wouldn't even be in it if we were any good.

We have been a cup team for a good few years now. I'm bored of that.
 
JakeC said:
Trophies, but they shouldn't be mutually exclusive
Click to expand...
Ah yeh, I understand it’s not as straightforward as I’m saying and there’s merit to building to something longer term with league progression.

I guess I feel we are in our relative “baron” years if we are to believe United is or will once again be a super club. Because the club has been anything but that on the pitch since Ferguson left. I can’t remember when United were a serious favourite in a big European or league tie. I guess there have been no big league ties in terms of us challenging for the league so that’s no surprise.

In the absence of United being a serious force (let’s be honest, we haven’t been for awhile), I’ve really enjoyed the exciting moments.

I suppose I’m wondering if the club is better off having managers who can win cups for the moment. Until the rest of the club gets its act together and actually builds good squads.
 
led_scholes said:
CL > League title > Europa League > Fa cup > top 4 (5) > Conference > League Cup.

For smaller leagues, I would swap the conference and put it in front of the local cup and the CL position (that's usually the second place of the league).
Click to expand...
I think the league is the top one, certainly with the EPL being as strong as it is. You could get to a semi final of CL without playing anybody of note, like city did a few years ago.

CL is obviously great but I feel the league is harder and in cup competitions luck generally plays a massive role at some stage for most eventual winners. League is a marathon.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
Being competitive at the highest level while playing entertaining football. This is all i care about.
Click to expand...
The Kevin Keegan football of the 90s under Newcastle was superb. Heartbreaker for Newcastle fans.

The sweet spot, for me, in the absence of winning the league would be A strong top 3 team with a proper serious chance of winning the CL. Not the kind of “somehow get to the quarters/semis” type team. Or the “this is man United, they are a big team” trope.

An actual serious team on its own merits that does look dangerous and big teams wouldn’t be just giving lip service respect because of the club badge.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
The Kevin Keegan football of the 90s under Newcastle was superb. Heartbreaker for Newcastle fans.

The sweet spot, for me, in the absence of winning the league would be A strong top 3 team with a proper serious chance of winning the CL. Not the kind of “somehow get to the quarters/semis” type team. Or the “this is man United, they are a big team” trope.

An actual serious team on its own merits that does look dangerous and big teams wouldn’t be just giving lip service respect because of the club badge.
Click to expand...

Obviously. I can live with the fact that United won't be winning 12 PL titles in 21 years anytime soon (or, possibly, ever again). But for the money we have spent - and will continue to spend - we should demand a team able to compete at the highest level by playing progressive football. You don't splurge £1.6bn to win 2 FA Cups, 1 or 2 EL titles and one EFL, and get to say that trophies are the only thing that matters, especially when you have lost 25.8% of your league matches (117/453) since 2013, and you have scored 0/1 goals in 52.1% of them (236/453). Being a consistently good team should be what matters.
 
Champions League qualification.

Let's be honest, the Europa League is a joke. It's literally a second-tier competition. The true prize for winning this competition isn't saying that you won the Europa League, it's the fact that doing so got you into the Champions League where the real clubs belong.

We'll never be taken seriously again unless we get back to being a perennial Champions League club.
 
JakeC said:
Trophies, but they shouldn't be mutually exclusive
Click to expand...
This is the only answer. It’s not like top 5 is a trophy. It’s just a standard we should be maintaining in the league every season. And the league should be the top priority every season.
 
led_scholes said:
CL > League title > Europa League > Fa cup > top 4 (5) > Conference > League Cup.

For smaller leagues, I would swap the conference and put it in front of the local cup and the CL position (that's usually the second place of the league).
Click to expand...
Disagree with that. I always wondered which was more important, but after having no chance in either for over a decade, it's definitely league. The next league win will so, so sweet if I'm lucky to see it.
 
killerboi2 said:
Champions League qualification and some stability, definitely not 15th place finishes. Europa League does not count as a trophy for me. We wouldn't even be in it if we were any good.

We have been a cup team for a good few years now. I'm bored of that.
Click to expand...
You see how that's absolutely ridiculous right?
 
it's about progress. I wouldn't accept mid table finishes and trophies glossing over shite league form for years. At the end of the day, getting back to the top of the PL is priority.
 
Trophy is always the right answer but I don't think finishing 15th sends a good signal. 6th plus europa eclipses arsenal type 2nd finish but 15th plus europa doesn't
 
I don’t think it’s a binary answer. Someone who agrees with me summed it up perfectly with the phrase “in isolation”. So in isolation and with the context of a new manager & new ownership model then this season is great if we win the Europa League. We will have a trophy a next season be in the holy grail of the champions league.

Now if the manager was here 2-3 season and we finished 16th, and this is why I understand Ange getting sacked even if they win it, then no it’s clearly not good enough. The league is how you measure where you are. Let’s not the year we won the treble we qualified for the champions league as runners up.

So I do believe there is a nuance that many people are ignoring. By its self as a one off with the context of new manager , new owners this is better. But realistically if we win the Europa league, then our only way of qualifying for the CL the season after next is to finish top 4 or win the CL.
 
Depends on the trophy.

As a club our ambition should be the league and the CL. The EL is a second rate trophy literally made up of non-top tier clubs.

If the EL didn’t award a CL spot then I’d choose top 5 over EL every day, because it means we’re in the CL… the actual goal, and also closer to the league than finishing mid table.
 
PSV said:
First rate trophies (PL/CL) > Qualification for contesting first rate trophies > Second rate trophies > Supercup trophies.
Click to expand...
I was going to say top 5 for cl but this is probably true. The two major trophies are more important than anything else but cl qualification is more important than any other trophy.
 
My guess is the majority of players see it like this, and I'd see it like this as a fan too for bigger leagues:
  1. World Cup
  2. Champions league
  3. Euros/Copa America/AFCON
  4. Domestic Leagues
  5. Europa League
  6. FA Cup/Main Domestic Cup
  7. CL qualification through league (Top 4/5)
  8. Club World Cup
  9. European Super Cup
  10. Europa Conference League (for smaller clubs)
  11. Secondary domestic Cup (League Cup)
  12. Domestic Super Cup/Community Shield
  13. Conference Leagues (for bigger clubs)
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Disagree with that. I always wondered which was more important, but after having no chance in either for over a decade, it's definitely league. The next league win will so, so sweet if I'm lucky to see it.
Click to expand...

In general I believe that the CL to be the pinnacle of trophies should be accompanied with a league title or at least to be competitive. However, my ranking is a bit more skewed to continental trophies due to considering that for most leagues (with the exception perhaps of PL, Spain and italy), the CL is more important. I would argue that for smaller leagues (like Belgian, Greek, Czech etc) even the conference is far more prestigious than the league.
 
As i say to Arsenal fans, I'll still remember last seasons FA Cup final win in 25 years time, you won't remember finishing 2nd in 5 years time
 
Winning the league or at least challenging for it has to be a priority.

Obviously we are not anywhere near that.

In the short term we need to qualify for CL by any means we can.

In the long term I want some pride and confidence in the club I support.
 
JakeC said:
Trophies, but they shouldn't be mutually exclusive
Click to expand...

Yes, they're definitely not mutually exclusive. So much so that I'm inclined to say top 4/5 because that means you're good, and good teams have a better chance of winning trophies. :lol: Watching good teams play football is also better than watching bad teams play week in week out.

Todd said:
Let's be honest, the Europa League is a joke. It's literally a second-tier competition. The true prize for winning this competition isn't saying that you won the Europa League, it's the fact that doing so got you into the Champions League where the real clubs belong.
Click to expand...

Something in this too.

It's Embarrassing to be in the Europa League, Says Patrice Evra.

Our fanbase used to mock Liverpool for having to play on Thursday nights on Channel 5 at one point too.

I hate the entitlement of it but the reality of football finances is that wealthy clubs finish in the top 4/5 regularly and win things regularly too. If they're not, it's because they're doing something wrong. There's no reason at all why we shouldn't expect both.

Smaller clubs can't have both. Finishing in the top 4/5 might be a one in 25 years occurence if not longer with the way the game is dictated by money, so might winning the FA Cup/Carabao or Conference League. In which case you take the trophy all day long.
 
Last edited:
I’d rather my team was top 5 best in the league and therefore conceivable could put up a title challenge within the next few seasons.

Obviously that’s a pipe dream right now and winning a B tier trophy in Europa will be absolutely huge.
 
We'd all like to be higher and challenging for the league and not many would take 15th/16th and a cup that over top 5 and no trophy.

But, after the shit show in the league this season a European trophy would be awesome. Added to the CL qualification that comes with it, makes it even better. And beating Spurs would make it even better again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.