What’s the difference between our honeymoon period and now?

[Florida Man]

Practically the same players. When we had that first match post-Mourinho, we actually looked like we were playing football. You could tell there was confidence, fight, and dare I say, talent, all from the same players that we want dropped or sold these days.

What can we hypothesize for the return to form under pre-sack-Mourinho, arguably worse now?

 

[Kostur]

Back then I've been saying that they've downed their tools to feck Mourinho off and just upped their game massively to show that they can be better without him. People were obviously saying that it's bullshit and that the end of the season blip was down to Mourinho's shit fitness preparation and that the players are gassed.

So I wonder, what's the matter now? For me it's just that they played to their 110% post Mourinho to show everybody that he was the dick (the easy games at start helped to build the momentum), whereas after Ole got extension they've gotten back to their complacent dicks state that they've retained ever after. The club's extending contracts with shit and average players who haven't merited it so why even bother.

I've also said that there will be no hiding after Mou's gone. Well guess I was wrong given that Ole's out of his depth too so the blame can be laid on the manager once again. This is the culture and mentality that's spread throughout the club ever since Fergie left.

 

[VorZakone]

This is an interesting discussion for me. It's like the squad wanted to prove it was all Mourinho's fault so they played their hearts out. Then they just regressed to their mean.

 

[Lentwood]

I think Paul Pogba and Marcus Rashford in particular upped their game and gave 110% to spite Jose

Pogba was a beast in those games, covering ground, making tackles, scoring and creating goals. Now we’re back to the Paul Pogba that thinks it’s acceptable to make a couple of half decent passes and spend the rest of the game ambling around at walking pace

 

[In Rainbows]

If you go back and watch the matches again, you will see that United were doing a coordinated press, even if unsuccessful passed it really quickly, and there was more freedom for our midfielders to get on the end of things. Those are the two big differences.

 

[Mcking]

Think the team has regressed with Solskjaer's influence. The more influence, the more regression.

 

[Bobcat]

Back then I've been saying that they've downed their tools to feck Mourinho off and just upped their game massively to show that they can be better without him. People were obviously saying that it's bullshit and that the end of the season blip was down to Mourinho's shit fitness preparation and that the players are gassed.

So I wonder, what's the matter now? For me it's just that they played to their 110% post Mourinho to show everybody that he was the dick (the easy games at start helped to build the momentum), whereas after Ole got extension they've gotten back to their complacent dicks state that they've retained ever after. The club's extending contracts with shit and average players who haven't merited it so why even bother.

I've also said that there will be no hiding after Mou's gone. Well guess I was wrong given that Ole's out of his depth too so the blame can be laid on the manager once again. This is the culture and mentality that's spread throughout the club ever since Fergie left.

This is an interesting discussion for me. It's like the squad wanted to prove it was all Mourinho's fault so they played their hearts out. Then they just regressed to their mean.

If this is the case, then we truly are fecked. No doubt the dressing room culture has gotten way worse since the days of Fergie, but it cant be that bad can it?

 

[UpWithRivers]

Ole has completed changed the system. We played 4-3-3 with Pogba pushing up. High press lots of energy. Now its as if he is playing for a draw and afraid to lose. There is a defensive midfield 2 - Even if the actual players arent defensive i.e. Pogba. He is playing too deep. We arnt pressing like used to. And lastly our team has 0 bottle and no fight. They can be up for a fight and perform like the best team in the world one game - or a series of games like post Mourinho but then lose to an obscure team after obscure team. Also every club knows that if you sit deep against us then there is fk all we can do to hurt them and there is a high likely hood that we will concede and Ole has no plan B. He barely has a plan A.

 

[roonster09]

We were high on confidence at that time, when you are everything looks easy. Players will move all over the place, there will be spring in their step. Now we are so down, every move is forced, play is lethargic and players are too scared.

The atmosphere at the club was breath of fresh air, everything looked good and we had good momentum. Now it's back to what it was.

 

[kouroux]

If this is the case, then we truly are fecked. No doubt the dressing room culture has gotten way worse since the days of Fergie, but it cant be that bad can it?

It is that bad. Stupid players coupled with incompetent management

 

[In Rainbows]

Ole has completed changed the system. We played 4-3-3 with Pogba pushing up. High press lots of energy. Now its as if he is playing for a draw and afraid to lose. There is a defensive midfield 2 - Even if the actual players arent defensive i.e. Pogba. He is playing too deep. We arnt pressing like used to. And lastly our team has 0 bottle and no fight. They can be up for a fight and perform like the best team in the world one game - or a series of games like post Mourinho but then lose to an obscure team after obscure team. Also every club knows that if you sit deep against us then there is fk all we can do to hurt them and there is a high likely hood that we will concede and Ole has no plan B. He barely has a plan A.

Pretty much. Although I do wonder if that's due to more and more Ole influence as the first match of the season had nothing to do with him. If not, which is completely possible, then it just reeks of poor decision from Ole. Why go away from what was working? You would never see Klopp or Pep go away from their style regardless of the players. The players might be shit at doing what he wants, leading to easy goals and what not, but they'll still try their style.

If it was simply a case of players upping their game due to Mourinho being gone, then why does it seem like all the players played that way? It's too much of a coincidence to think that all the players individually decided they should up their game and it came out looking very coordinated.

 

[Sky1981]

Ole has completed changed the system. We played 4-3-3 with Pogba pushing up. High press lots of energy. Now its as if he is playing for a draw and afraid to lose. There is a defensive midfield 2 - Even if the actual players arent defensive i.e. Pogba. He is playing too deep. We arnt pressing like used to. And lastly our team has 0 bottle and no fight. They can be up for a fight and perform like the best team in the world one game - or a series of games like post Mourinho but then lose to an obscure team after obscure team. Also every club knows that if you sit deep against us then there is fk all we can do to hurt them and there is a high likely hood that we will concede and Ole has no plan B. He barely has a plan A.

If ole cant analyze his own first 15 games, and replicate it, i dont think he's a good manager.

This 15 games happens under him, if you cant even analyze your own experiences then i lost hope of him learning.

 

[SirAF]

This is an interesting discussion for me. It's like the squad wanted to prove it was all Mourinho's fault so they played their hearts out. Then they just regressed to their mean.

This combined with a fairly «easy» run of matches for me.

 

[Jeppers7]

Formation and press.

Anyone ignoring the change in formation and subsequent lack of high press has probably made their mind up it's certain players faults.

 

[lysglimt]

Herrera not here
Pogba and Rashford not in the same form
Martial injured

9 Points from 7 isn't good enough of course - but I would be a lot more worried if we weren't the better team in practically all our games. Even against West Ham when we were poor we still had 2 huge chances we should have put away - and we wouldn't have lost.

So people talk about sacking OGS - but the fact is, if he gets a couple of attacking signings spot-on in january - we will be a very strong side again. Especially if Pogba decides to show up.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Herrera not here
Pogba and Rashford not in the same form
Martial injured

9 Points from 7 isn't good enough of course - but I would be a lot more worried if we weren't the better team in practically all our games. Even against West Ham when we were poor we still had 2 huge chances we should have put away - and we wouldn't have lost.

So people talk about sacking OGS - but the fact is, if he gets a couple of attacking signings spot-on in january - we will be a very strong side again. Especially if Pogba decides to show up.

All ifs and buts. If Moyes stayed another 3 seasons and if he became a better manager in that time and if he signed some great players and if the players he had turned out to be world beaters then we would be champions

 

[Ekeke]

The celebration time and euphoria the players felt when Mourinho was gone and the players didnt know the limitations of Ole's management. It was all positive and so it was easy for players to play at their best, and when players are playing at their best the tactics and selections are easy. Now Ole has established what he's about, picked his players and how we want to play, made some signings and let other players go and we have a good idea of what Ole is capable of. And we're back to a big struggle

 

[In Rainbows]

Herrera not here
Pogba and Rashford not in the same form
Martial injured

9 Points from 7 isn't good enough of course - but I would be a lot more worried if we weren't the better team in practically all our games. Even against West Ham when we were poor we still had 2 huge chances we should have put away - and we wouldn't have lost.

So people talk about sacking OGS - but the fact is, if he gets a couple of attacking signings spot-on in january - we will be a very strong side again. Especially if Pogba decides to show up.

Still won't bring back the same football. Go and watch that first or 2nd match. Clearly they were instructed a certain way. So yes there will be a little more quality with more quality in players, but that's not the only thing that needs changing.

 

[lysglimt]

All ifs and buts. If Moyes stayed another 3 seasons and if he became a better manager in that time and if he signed some great players and if the players he had turned out to be world beaters then we would be champions

I am not saying we are anywhere near being champions - but we are in my opinion just 2 players away from having a very good side. Not good enough to beat City or Liverpool - but good enough to beat all the other teams. And that is my main reason for not wanting OGS out.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Confidence.

 

[Infra-red]

I'm sure Leicester wondered the same thing about Craig Shakespeare.

New manager bounces just happen - they don't last long and aren't indicative of future success.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I think it was basically a brief period where the players had Mourinho’s coaching but without the negative personal influence José had become. So it clicked. It was like Mourinho had to go for them to play the way he wanted.

 

[Spoony]

I think it was basically a brief period where the players had Mourinho’s coaching but without the negative personal influence José had become. So it clicked. It was like Mourinho had to go for them to play the way he wanted.

Hello.

 

[M16Red]

I think it was basically a brief period where the players had Mourinho’s coaching but without the negative personal influence José had become. So it clicked. It was like Mourinho had to go for them to play the way he wanted.

Do you just make stuff up?

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Hello.

Sup spoons?

 

[el3mel]

New manager syndrome, just prolonged this time. Not like it's the first time to see such a thing happening to any other club.

 

[Spoony]

Sup spoons?

Not bad mate, not seen your posts for ages. Hope all is well.

 

[Lee565]

It just looks like the longer Ole has charge of the team the worse it is becoming, it's nothing to do with the excuse of being down to the bare bones either because we were getting worse and worse last season as the season went on and it is still continuing with players looking worse individually under Solskjear than under the other managers as well.

 

[TheReligion]

We are still a couple players short. No biggie.

 

[Leftback99]

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/soccernomics-does-sacking-manager-actually-make-difference

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...ounce-its-all-down-to-lady-luck-idUKKBN1EF1NM

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...n-bilic-west-ham-premier-league-a8044586.html

 

[Camilo]

There was zero pressure or expectation. Ole was only going to be there for a few months, a few players were probably thinking they'd be off in the summer, we had nothing to play for... Ole did nothing. I imagine if a more accomplished coach had been brought to "save" our season and also plan for the future, we'd have had the same shit we're seeing now.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Not bad mate, not seen your posts for ages. Hope all is well.

All good, cheers. Except United obviously.

 

[SalfordRed18]

We're confidence team like arsenal in the late 00s.

Take away confidence and we crumble.

 

[Casanova85]

Lukaku scoring a few important goals.

Pogba momentarily happy with Mou gone.

Several easy PL games in Dec-Feb.

That's it. Everything went downhill after the miracle of Paris (the 0-2 at OT was sobering). The tumescent current season actually started in March.

God knows we would be 14th by now if not for Maguire.

 

[Axle17]

I often wonder if that game was as result of McKenna & Carrick versus Ole's input.
Perhaps they had a bigger impact then what Ole is having?

 

[pocco]

I felt we got lucky in quite a few games in that run. I said so at the time and Ole said it himself. We didn't play great football as long as many seem to think, maybe 3 or 4 games really.

 

[dwd]

We're married now.

 

[In Rainbows]

I felt we got lucky in quite a few games in that run. I said so at the time and Ole said it himself. We didn't play great football as long as many seem to think, maybe 3 or 4 games really.

I pointed it out too, and was wondering whose influence that was.

 

[Kamprad]

Shows how important mentality is. A big part of how good a player or team is depends on psychological things.

 

[Shimo]

When Ole first came in, there was the natural pick me up from a new manager, some players played to their potential for a brief periodnd the biggest thing is that many teams tried to still have a go at us and gave us the opportunity to counter. The confidence of winning games helped keep the momentum for a period of time.

Then other teams figured us out, make us break them down, hit us on the counter and cracks started to show. At the moment, we are also playing in a system that completely is ill suited to the personnel we have available.

4-2-3-1 just about works if Martial is around. Rashford isn't good enough yet for that central role and him there means the likes or playing Perreira or one of the other youngsters that is not yet ready. We don't really have a a good enough #10 but, at least with the pace and individual ability of having all 3 of James, Martial, Rashford means there is a threat going forward. But, with our depleted line up, it's just a complete wasted spot, with an ineffective center forward and a right side attack that is non-existent for 80% of matches. Then you have one of our best individual players shackled playing deep. He is constantly being put in a position to try and create from deep by beating players in our own half, no movement ahead of him and losing the ball in dangerous positions.

Ole can still maintain overall principles of our approach to games but, adjust the formation so we can get the best out of our current squad but, so far he hasn't shown he is willing to - stuck too much in the long term view.