What’s the dilemma with Donny’s playing time & Ole?

[CanadianUtd]

Something’s just not right - this is the latest with the transfer deadline having expired:

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it’s especially bizarre because public knowledge out there is that Ole has final say on all transfers (he’s said so himself). Signs VDB this time last year for €40m, a really promising young talented CM with immense quality, and then he’s shown the bench for the most part of the season. Barely any starts, minimal appearances, and no way for him to get into any sort of groove with irregular playing time.

…is this genuinely a case of settling in which Ole showed with Fred; his first year had minimal playing time and following that had the shackles released having been a regular ever since. Fred wasn’t even an Ole signing, he inherited him from José whereas Donny was signed off by Ole to bring. And at least for Fred, we could conceptualize where he’d fit in the lineup. For VDB, it’s hard to see where he can play with sufficient minutes seeing he plays almost exactly the same position Bruno does.


unless the coaching staff find a way to play VDB elsewhere, I honestly don’t get the point in keeping him around. For his sake, I really do hope it’s a case of having gotten familiar with the new environment which will lead to more playing time as it did with Fred in his second year. If not, it’s honestly confusing and quite sad to see such a promising talent rot away. It’s crazy enough that a year of his developmental prime got essentially wasted last season. Growth was definitely stunted to some degree.

As things stand, United have a bit of a logjam at midfield (even more so with Jesse staying). Judging the scenario, one would think a simple move such as loaning out would help all parties involved but Ole+United make a stance by telling other clubs off that inquired. How on earth will Donny be incorporated into the team?? So curious to see how this plays out…..

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Indeed, the situation is very strange, vs the Saints, starting Matic ahead of VdB was at least questionable, because in Donny's mind he's gotta ask himself "Pogba and McFred are ahead of me for now which is fair, and Bruno is ahead of me at AM, but with Pogba playing LW & McTominay injured, surely it must be me who starts but Ole went with Matic, why?."

I can't see him starting games now, unless Ole benches Bruno, Pogba, or any of McFred duo, which is highly unlikely at this moment, it will be cup games or easy CL ties at Old Trafford, but this time there will be a better group of players who would play as a second string, like Martial, Lindelof, Cavani maybe, one of Sancho, Greenwood or Rashford, Telles, Henderson and so on, which might give him a small opportunity to perform strongly when good players are around him.

 

[Ole's screen]

Indeed, the situation is very strange, vs the Saints, starting Matic ahead of VdB was at least questionable, because in Donny's mind he's gotta ask himself "Pogba and McFred are ahead of me for now which is fair, and Bruno is ahead of me at AM, but with Pogba playing LW & McTominay injured, surely it must be me who starts but Ole went with Matic, why?."

I can't see him starting games now, unless Ole benches Bruno, Pogba, or any of McFred duo, which is highly unlikely at this moment, it will be cup games or easy CL ties at Old Trafford, but this time there will be a better group of players who would play as a second string, like Martial, Lindelof, Cavani maybe, one of Sancho, Greenwood or Rashford, Telles, Henderson and so on, which might give him a small opportunity to perform strongly when good players are around him.

I think if a situation like the Southampton game arrives again Ole's definitely going to be going with Donny over Matic now. He made that clear in the interview. So in my mind the Soton game was positive in that regard. It is now or never though. Post this international break (Donny's not gonna be on international duty) Ole has to find a role for him and has to start playing him more. Its one thing to have squad depth but it's no use when you're unwilling to use them for important games.

 

[Kush]

Ole doesn’t rate him, it’s that simple. Lingard and Matic are seeing game time even though former was out of fray last season and latter being finished. VDB has done nothing so far to suggest he’ll tear it up. To me he seems like a mis-fit. We simply don’t play the style of football which suits him.

The intriguing question is why haven’t we sold him? Only plausible explanation would be that Ole wants to keep him, in case a crisis hits. He likes working with a big squad, which is why we have mammoth 29 first team players. This doesn’t even include likes of Mejbri, Hannibal, Elanga etc.

 

[luke511]

His best performance for us, and one of utd's best performances of the season, was when he played alongside Fred in the double pivot with Bruno in front vs Basaksehir at home. That was the only time it's been used, I've no idea why it wasn't given another go soon after given how good the performance was. Another similar mystery is Amad only getting 10 minutes of playing time in the space of 2 months after scoring vs AC Milan. It's a complete guess but I wonder if it has anything to do with them not being his personal choices, and more the heads of recruitment, who knows.

 

[Esquire]

Ole doesn’t rate him, it’s that simple. Lingard and Matic are seeing game time even though former was out of fray last season and latter being finished. VDB has done nothing so far to suggest he’ll tear it up. To me he seems like a mis-fit. We simply don’t play the style of football which suits him.

The intriguing question is why haven’t we sold him? Only plausible explanation would be that Ole wants to keep him, in case a crisis hits. He likes working with a big squad, which is why we have mammoth 29 first team players. This doesn’t even include likes of Mejbri, Hannibal, Elanga etc.

I like Ole but he is not a trusting manager. He goes with his favourites like Rashford every game last year at the end of season when he clearly wasn’t right. What’s the point of having a 40m bench warmer? He doesn’t suit our style? I get he may not have been our 1st or 2nd choice last year but you don’t spend 40m on a player without extensive scouting and some consideration how he would fit into the squad? It’s fine if a transfer doesn’t work out but sure give him a run of games to either sink or swim. For all his talk about being brave and taking risks, Ole doesn’t lead by example. I remember busts like Kleberson and Obertan getting opportunities.

 

[SirMattlives]

I have to believe there is a plan, that maybe Donny is just not showing enough in training yet for how Ole wants to use him but will be phased in over this season. It must be annoying for Ole to have to explain every single decision and I trust he and the staff have determined the player as sufficient potential that they want to keep him for a bit longer. Much talk about how he came back this season in strong shape and ready to push on, so let's see.

 

[MasterCode]

I fear we may be making a similar error with DVB, that Chelsea made with KDB.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Ole doesn’t rate him, it’s that simple. Lingard and Matic are seeing game time even though former was out of fray last season and latter being finished. VDB has done nothing so far to suggest he’ll tear it up. To me he seems like a mis-fit. We simply don’t play the style of football which suits him.

The intriguing question is why haven’t we sold him? Only plausible explanation would be that Ole wants to keep him, in case a crisis hits. He likes working with a big squad, which is why we have mammoth 29 first team players. This doesn’t even include likes of Mejbri, Hannibal, Elanga etc.

I was wondering how many players we have in the squad, and its indeed close to 29 (27 to be exact), a bloated squad, even with sale/loan departures (James, Tuanzebe, Williams, Pereira, Pellistri, Garner, Chong)

GKs: De Gea, Henderson, Heaton, Grant (4)
Defenders: Maguire, Varane, Shaw, AWB, Lindelof, Bailly, Jones, Telles, Dalot* = (9)
Midfielders: Pogba, Bruno, Fred, McTominay, Matic, VdB, Mata = (7)
Forwards: Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Lingard, Greenwood*= (7)

so the total is 27 players, with 2 players as U21 (marked with *, so this will keep us in the limit of the allowed 25 players plus unlimited U21 players)

I didn't include Academy players like Mengi, Hannibal, Elanga & Shoretire, as I am not sure how involved they will be this season with the size of senior squad we have at hand.

I also didn't include Amad as he was about to go on loan but got injured, so he is in the same boat as the academy players in my eyes

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think Ole is scared to play him as he's looked lost in nearly all his first team appearances. One of the issues is that in the double pivot Ole wants running power and physicality, and VDB in his first year may have been too feeble to provide that bit of power from the central area. And he hasn't got the passing range to make up for it.

For me, he's an attacking midfielder who gets you goals from what I saw/read of him at Ajax. This whole playmaker thing seems to be something United fans are forcing on him. He's a neat and tidy player who used to excel at finding pockets of space and timing his runs to get you goals.

I think we should have loaned/sold him if we werent going to use him but the above quotes do give some hope that we may be useful yet.

 

[CanadianUtd]

so the total is 27 players, with 2 players as U21

agree with everything you listed apart from Jesse. He plays the same role/position as Bruno+Donny (and Mata). Just shows how many bodies there are for VDB to work around to get game time.

...at least we can jot down Pogba as a forward(free roaming LW/LM) until Rashford is back fit. And tbf, Mata at times plays RW as well. Lingard is strictly in the AM role from what I’ve seen.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

agree with everything you listed apart from Jesse. He plays the same role/position as Bruno+Donny (and Mata). Just shows how many bodies there are for VDB to work around to get game time.

...at least we can jot down Pogba as a forward(free roaming LW/LM) until Rashford is back fit. And tbf, Mata at times plays RW as well. Lingard is strictly in the AM role from what I’ve seen.

Yeah, I don't mind, I wasn't strict in my listing, Lingard can be considered AM so a midfielder, Mata also plays either a roaming RW which makes him a forward player in a sense, and also lately played as AM which makes him a midfielder too.

against Southampton, Lingard came in for Sancho and operated in LW area, so he is not strictly an AM, but I don't mind if you think so.

 

[afatzp]

I am guessing Ole's plan with VDB would be closely linked with Varane: we need the new central defense duo settled well first, then we can unplug those defensive support offered from the central midfield and spice it up with VDB to play more fluid. With Lindelöf + Maguire, Ole just dared not remove Mcfred to support them. Did read the news somewhere about this new plan to strengthen the attack, it somehow makes sense so I hope that's true.

It would be quite interesting to see the line-up of the coming up game with Newcastle. We will be at home, with Varane trained with the team for several weeks and performing well in the Wolves game , and VDB free of national duties and get prepared for it. If VDB still not started, I think it can be concluded that Ole did not trust VDB whatsoever. Then the whole transfer should be questioned to the bottom of it.

 

[kps88]

He'll get his chance once the midweek games start up. Will probably start in the league cup and against Young Boys. Up to him to make the most of it.

 

[tenpoless]

Everytime hes played he didnt really do anything spectacular to be honest. As long as Fred, Pogba and McTomminay are fit the only time he will get games is against lesser opponents. If he does well against them I can see the order being shuffled.

 

[Samid]

I’ve heard Ole calls him Donny van de Reek.

 

[Ole's screen]

I’ve heard Ole calls him Donny van de Reek.

Reek, Reek, it rhymes with Beek.

 

[Skills]

Wasn't having a long term visionary like Solksjaer meant to avoid this kind of situation?

 

[Red_Aaron]

First team places are earned with performances every day in training. It's as simple as that for me. If you want the jersey you have to out perform the other guys that play your position day in day out. If DVB was running rings around McFred everyday he'd be in the team, that he's not able to do that perhaps exposes his real level of quality because good honest pros that they are neither of McFred are anything special.

I'm always prepared to write off the first year for a player joining a jew club abroad and I've no doubt Ole will give Donny minutes in lesser games early on in the season but the bottom line is he needs to massively improve when he gets those chances otherwise when the business end comes around he could again find himself completely out of contention like last season.

He needs to step up

 

[DomesticTadpole]

He needed a run of games. Every player needs to get into a rhythm and gain confidence. The way Ole is using him is abysmal.

 

[Champ]

He'll get his chance once the midweek games start up. Will probably start in the league cup and against Young Boys. Up to him to make the most of it.

Agree with this.

Not sure why there is the obsession with VDBs playing time on here really.
He isn't a defensive minded midfielder, so won't get in ahead of Matic, Fred or McT. He isn't better than Bruno so won't get in ahead of him, and he hasn't shown he can play off the left or right side.

So currently for me until Bruno is unfit or needs a rest badly I won't think we'll be seeing him, which suits me fine.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

First team places are earned with performances every day in training. It's as simple as that for me. If you want the jersey you have to out perform the other guys that play your position day in day out. If DVB was running rings around McFred everyday he'd be in the team, that he's not able to do that perhaps exposes his real level of quality because good honest pros that they are neither of McFred are anything special.

I'm always prepared to write off the first year for a player joining a jew club abroad and I've no doubt Ole will give Donny minutes in lesser games early on in the season but the bottom line is he needs to massively improve when he gets those chances otherwise when the business end comes around he could again find himself completely out of contention like last season.

He needs to step up

I hate this what they do in training analogy. Fred and Matic might be lighting up training, but they stink on the pitch when it actually matters. If he doesn't rate him he should have sold him this summer early on and got another midfielder in. Signing Ronnie probably scuppered that. So now we are desperate for Scott McTominay to be fit, that says a lot about where we are with midfield quality.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Agree with this.

Not sure why there is the obsession with VDBs playing time on here really.
He isn't a defensive minded midfielder, so won't get in ahead of Matic, Fred or McT. He isn't better than Bruno so won't get in ahead of him, and he hasn't shown he can play off the left or right side.

So currently for me until Bruno is unfit or needs a rest badly I won't think we'll be seeing him, which suits me fine.

Agree with this. Bruno is a bit of a problem. You get games like Leeds, then he will be awful for a number of games, but is untouchable because he can have that one moment in a game. Will be interesting to see the dynamic between him and Ronaldo when the reason resumes.

 

[Red_Aaron]

I hate this what they do in training analogy. Fred and Matic might be lighting up training, but they stink on the pitch when it actually matters. If he doesn't rate him he should have sold him this summer early on and got another midfielder in. Signing Ronnie probably scuppered that. So now we are desperate for Scott McTominay to be fit, that says a lot about where we are with midfield quality.

Training is not an analogy, its a fact.
You earn your place in the team, that's a staple of any and every team sport in existence

What does it do to the other players in the squad if they see a player getting picked every week who isn't proving himself against them? Why would they bother to try every day if they know the manager will just pick the new boy who's not shown anything to suggest he's good enough to play ahead of them?

The person primarily responsible for Donnys lack of playing time is Donny himself

 

[UpWithRivers]

It was more that Van Der Sar called and Ole said heck why not, Pogba might be leaving and that only leaves Bruno to create anything from the midfield. Problem is they all thought he was a number 10 but he's not really is he. But you cant play him as a midfielder either because he doesn't suit the the way Ole wants to play. Ole wants two defensive 8's. He wants to get the ball back quickly and hit the front players quickly. Thats the game plan. Its basically a case of poor recruitment. They got a player that doesnt fit the way they want to play. This is United all over.

Until Ole decides he is going to play tactically very differently then DVB is screwed and should just leave.

 

[11101]

He must not be training well, and he has hardly done much to change perceptions in the games he has played. However, I've never seen him anywhere near as bad as Matic vs Southampton and that was hardly a one off. DVB has to be ahead of him in the pecking order now. If not then you've really got to question what Ole is seeing out on the pitch.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I think Ole is scared to play him as he's looked lost in nearly all his first team appearances. One of the issues is that in the double pivot Ole wants running power and physicality, and VDB in his first year may have been too feeble to provide that bit of power from the central area. And he hasn't got the passing range to make up for it.

For me, he's an attacking midfielder who gets you goals from what I saw/read of him at Ajax. This whole playmaker thing seems to be something United fans are forcing on him. He's a neat and tidy player who used to excel at finding pockets of space and timing his runs to get you goals.

I think we should have loaned/sold him if we werent going to use him but the above quotes do give some hope that we may be useful yet.

That’s why I always thought the transfer was odd. He’s a CAM. Why sign him when you had Bruno and Pogba? The assumption is Pogba was going to be sold last season is my guess. Yet again a case of buying a player and then trying to force him into a different position. We do this all the time. It’s not exactly difficult to buy players for positions we need.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Training is not an analogy, its a fact.
You earn your place in the team, that's a staple of any and every team sport in existence

What does it do to the other players in the squad if they see a player getting picked every week who isn't proving himself against them? Why would they bother to try every day if they know the manager will just pick the new boy who's not shown anything to suggest he's good enough to play ahead of them?

The person primarily responsible for Donnys lack of playing time is Donny himself

Not everybody is a great trainer, some only want to be on the pitch. Gary Pallister would never have played if Ole was the manager.

 

[yamo123x]

First I don't think Donny was an OGS choice signing. It was a Woody signing because he was a ajax lad with good reputation and at a good price.

Secondly I think Ole views Donny as cover for Bruno, a goalscoring link player, not a box to box central midfielder.

Donny does deserve a run, maybe he can play with Matic while MCT is out cant be any more wasteful than Fred, would just need to work hard in that role.

 

[Red_Aaron]

Not everybody is a great trainer, some only want to be on the pitch. Gary Pallister would never have played if Ole was the manager.

What do you suggest?
How many games should he get to play regardless of his performances? And if our results are terrible in those games do we just ignore them because Donny is more important than our results?

I really don't see how anyone justifies playing this guy 'just because' It's not how team sports work, meritocracy is fundamental. He'll get chances in lesser games, should he perform well it'll improve his chances of playing in the bigger games, it's not a difficult concept

Having forced his way into the team he'll be a better player for it btw

 

[Red_Aaron]

First I don't think Donny was an OGS choice signing. It was a Woody signing because he was a ajax lad with good reputation and at a good price.

Secondly I think Ole views Donny as cover for Bruno, a goalscoring link player, not a box to box central midfielder.

Donny does deserve a run, maybe he can play with Matic while MCT is out cant be any more wasteful than Fred, would just need to work hard in that role.

What makes you say that may I ask?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

That’s why I always thought the transfer was odd. He’s a CAM. Why sign him when you had Bruno and Pogba? The assumption is Pogba was going to be sold last season is my guess. Yet again a case of buying a player and then trying to force him into a different position. We do this all the time. It’s not exactly difficult to buy players for positions we need.

Totally agree

 

[Counterfactual]

Pogba's replacement, but Pogba hasn't gone or committed to staying, so Donny's in limbo.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I think it's like Hudson Odoi at Chelsea. Neither Tuchel or Ole really have these players in their plans but they don't want to be left without decent backup in the event of injuries.

 

[Cantonaaa!]

He probably knows he might cost us points if we do play him. I can’t understand why we bought him if not as a Pogba or Bruno replacement or something.
Pogba obviously didn’t leave so maybe we just hedged our bets in the transfermarket at the time. It’s weird to think that Woody forced a signing on Ole, just for him to refuse to play him. I highly doubt that scenario.
Guess we’ll know the whole story at some point.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What do you suggest?
How many games should he get to play regardless of his performances? And if our results are terrible in those games do we just ignore them because Donny is more important than our results?

I really don't see how anyone justifies playing this guy 'just because' It's not how team sports work, meritocracy is fundamental. He'll get chances in lesser games, should he perform well it'll improve his chances of playing in the bigger games, it's not a difficult concept

Having forced his way into the team he'll be a better player for it btw

He needed a run in the team to find his feet and has been given that chance. It has been in bits and pieces. If he doesn't fancy him then sell him. Now he has an unhappy player and player whose confidence will be affected. Lets just see what happens when the midweek games kick in.

 

[DWelbz19]

I think it's like Hudson Odoi at Chelsea. Neither Tuchel or Ole really have these players in their plans but they don't want to be left without decent backup in the event of injuries.

Basically this. Donny is clearly not in Ole’s plans, but central midfield is our weakest position. He’s kind of still here for emergencies and injuries.

 

[Syphon Wallet]

VDB just isn't good enough, he doesn't have enough about him, other than neat and tidy player.
Didn't think he was that good for Ajax either when we signed him.
He would probably work better alongside a proper CDM.
He will never be good enough in the CAM position for Manchester United.

He would have been sold if we got a CDM in, seems obvious when you read the agents quotes.
We have kept him selfishly for cover, he won't get much playing time if everyone stays fit.

 

[roonster09]

This is one of the most baffling transfer. He showed his qualities playing for Ajax, both in league and in CL. We signed him for good money in Covid market but barely used him. Even when our players were exhausted, he didn't get chances.

If we don't rate him, we should at least sell him.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Wasn't having a long term visionary like Solksjaer meant to avoid this kind of situation?

Why would you think that?

100% of transfers work for any manager and VDB has not left yet. So you can feck off with your agenda post.